Expats seeking a new life face challenges with stricter banking and taxation rules being pushed

[NorthernRyland]

4 hours ago, hotchilli said:

 

[JCauto]

42 minutes ago, Expat68 said:

All you have to do is live Thailand 179 days, another country of your choice 179 days, stopover 7 days, bit messy but no tax in any country 

Not correct, and they've already thought of this obvious dodge. If you get examined by your government or the Thai for that matter, they'll expect you to show them which country you pay taxes to because there must be one that you choose as your residence. There are a number of factors going into this including presence physically, assets, work, income sources, ties, etc. But there are no situations where they say "ah, foiled again by the ol' 179 day trick! If only you'd stayed one extra day!" 

 

The computers and government and bank databases are linking and they're won't be easy escapes from the tax man for long. You will have noticed how much stricter everyone is getting with money transfers. Tax is the thing that motivates government to be active and energetic in pursuit of revenue. 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Well you can, its only the remittance to Thailand which creates the taxable event.. 

Start paying all bills via wise.. A direct payment from outside the country to the 3rd party is then thier taxable event, not yours.. House and car payments, GF or wifes housekeeping, etc etc.. Spend as much as possible with an overseas credit card.. Brings the total right down. 

When you say overseas credit card, would that apply to withdrawing from a Thai ATM? 

[jaideedave]

6 hours ago, misterphil said:

Filipina girls are far too cocky. No thanks. 

only the ladyboys

[ThomasThBKK]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

When you say overseas credit card, would that apply to withdrawing from a Thai ATM? 

 

That's a tricky question. 

Withdrawing from an ATM is in general a remittance, but credit cards give you a loan that you pay back - and loans are generally not taxable. 

 

[jayceenik]

OK, I'm an old timer and my post will bring only memories to some.

About 33 years ago I got a job in Papua New Guinea with an Australian company.

We were on 2/i with flight paid back to AUS for time-off periods.

I arranged that I got Thailand instead.

I was immediately hit with a new govt new Thailand taxation obligation and had to declare an artificial "income" to get a visa.

That's when I got my first TIN.

There was that retired American ex-UN librarian with a villa in Pattaya who got hit too by surprise and honestly (!) declared his (big) pension.

The Thai income tax he'd have had to pay was so enormous that the tax employee he reported to agreed that he'd only have to declare a much reduced amount.

Anyway, it was one of those overnight military govt that didn't last long and that nasty farang income tax was soon abolished.

 

My Belgian pension, paid in a Belgian bank is taxed at the source and I also file a yearly Belgian tax return form so I guess that I'll be safe from that new tax but I have also an old savings account (non-interest bearing) in a different country. Will transfers from that account be Thai taxed? 

 

[NorthernRyland]

The deal was you paid your visa fee and now are spending money in the local economy so why do they need more money? Seems like a money grab from greedy government officials. 

[couchpotato]

6 hours ago, FarAway said:

 

Because people are sheep. They follow the masses. And the masses go to Thailand.

Approx. 90% of the Expats in Thailand are losers, hippies, child molesters, LGBTQ or whatsoever. 

I just stayed here because of my wife and my daughter and because it was difficult to sell my house in a remote area. Now it will be sold and we can escape the coming Thaksin era. Oh boy, Thailand will not be the same under his rule anymore.

 

Yes you were not allowed to criticize the military, but therefore they gave us freedom. Giving and taking.

But Thaksin's homeboys are names like George Soros and so on, like THE WORLD ELITE. Thailand will be a complete dystopian nightmare soon.

 

Territorial taxation - Gone 

Gun ownership - Heavily restricted

CBDC with possibility to restrict spending radius and time - Incoming and people even beg for it

A possible next pandemic - Mask mania and this time QR-code-style like in Europe with no escape for "conspiracy theorists"

 

 

And ALL of the above is marketed as "good for the people" while it just serves the purpose of making the powerful people even more powerful and the "average joe" more powerless.

 

And as we know our fellow Thai people, none of them will dare to open their mouth. 

 

And which part of that terrible 90% do you classify yourself under. Don't be shy, let us know.

[garygooner]

Let's hope that most of us will only be affected by the 300 baht tourism tax in the future. (increase it to 500 baht even)  

[ThomasThBKK]

5 minutes ago, jayceenik said:

was immediately hit with a new govt new Thailand taxation obligation and had to declare an artificial "income" to get a visa.

That's when I got my first TIN.

There was that retired American ex-UN librarian with a villa in Pattaya who got hit too by surprise and honestly (!) declared his (big) pension.

The Thai income tax he'd have had to pay was so enormous that the tax employee he reported to agreed that he'd only have to declare a much reduced amount.

 

 

You also had to get a tax clearance certificate right? I wasn't here but i have at least read that.
Without it you couldn't leave the country - that's the real scary part. 

Vietnam does that too, they can hold you hostage if they aren't happy with your tax situation and block you from leaving. 

[ThomasThBKK]

6 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

The deal was you paid your visa fee and now are spending money in the local economy so why do they need more money? Seems like a money grab from greedy government officials. 

 

It's a transfer from THAIS to the government. The money u waste on taxes won't be invested in actual thai businesses. Basically all they do is stealing from their own people in the end. 

[VocalNeal]

7 hours ago, Jonathan Swift said:

Wonder how they’ll pull this off without forcing banks to disclose all incoming int’l money transfers? I will have to ask my bank. Seems like it might be hard to universally enforce this.

Well at least we won't get posts or threads complaining that banks don't tag funds as "from overseas" for the sake of visa requirements.

[Arthur Mullard]

8 hours ago, SuperSaiyan said:

Philippines is the way to go. It's 20 years behind in time, like it or hate it. No taxes on world income, no visa hassles and by that I mean absolutely ZERO. More young marriage type girls available and they speak English and not just "I go boom boom".

 

LOL or "bum-bum" which always tickled me!

[Lopburikid]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

State pensions maybe exempt, but private, company, disability can be taxed at 25% State pensions should be taxed at the countries tax rate, which in Thailand is 5% of any income over 150,000 per year.

 

I am confused - first of all you say 'State Pensions should be exempt', then you say "State Pensions should be taxed at the countries tax rate,.............."?????????

No, I said state pensions MAYBE exempt. If they are taxed, they should be taxed at Thailand's tax rate which is under 150,000 0% tax. over 150,000 up to 300,000 is 5%. 300,000 to 500,000 is 10%. 500.000 to 750,000 is 15%., and so on.

[JimTripper]

1 hour ago, QuantumQuandry said:

There are countries other than Thailand and your home country.

 

I would probably choose Philippines but I would also investigate nearby SEA countries like Indonesia and Malaysia.

 

Can even come back and visit Thailand frequently on a 2 hour plane trip and just stay under the tax residency number of days.

It's difficult to live in a nice place and keep costs down if you don't sign a long term lease, however.

 

Show up and want to stay 5 months and you end up staying in AirBnb's or small grungy condo's that never feel like home. The good properties hold out for long term tenants.

 

Alternatively, you stay in hotels or nice accomodations for business travelers that cost much more.

[SuperSaiyan]

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

Curious to how it has zero hassles. I read that you need to deposit 20k usd over 50 with no pension/10k with pension for the retirement visa, under 35 yo. it jumps to 50k usd deposit & apply with a bunch of documents.

 

sounds about the same as thailand hassles to me. are you border bouncing?

 

https://visaguide.world/retirement-visa/philippines/

No, no.

 

No, you just don't use this visa, you use a tourist visa which can be extended something like 1 month, 3 month and then for a year and then you can stay for 3 years inside the country. After 3 years you need to fly out/in (same day) and repeat the process. Indefinitely. It's absolutely hassle free.

[SuperSaiyan]

1 hour ago, Andrew65 said:

The Phils isn't famous for it's food, also I get the impression that it's not as safe as Thailand.

So, why don't you eat anything except Philippine food? It always puzzles me when people say "oh but the food" - but nobody forces you to eat it or are you a child? Just go and buy what you like, everything is available.

[SuperSaiyan]

3 hours ago, JimTripper said:

But the food sucks.

Again to you, nobody forces you or do you have mommy on your back? Why don't you decide to buy food you like? Everything is available.

[Andrew65]

Just now, SuperSaiyan said:

So, why don't you eat anything except Philippine food? It always puzzles me when people say "oh but the food" - but nobody forces you to eat it or are you a child? Just go and buy what you like, everything is available.

To be honest with you, I'm not a very 'foodie' person anyway. Over the 20 years that I lived in Thailand I hardly ever ate Thai food. But for some people food would be a bigger consideration.

[QuantumQuandry]

6 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

It's difficult to live in a nice place and keep costs down if you don't sign a long term lease, however.

 

Show up and want to stay 5 months and you end up staying in AirBnb's or small grungy condo's that never feel like home. The good properties hold out for long term tenants.

 

Alternatively, you stay in hotels or nice accomodations for business travelers that cost much more.

Yes, it does cost more to bounce between two places.  You are totally right.  It's an option, though.  Everyone's situations is different.

 

I am budget-conscious so I would probably have a primary place in the Philippines and then just a small crash-pad in Thailand if any of this comes to pass.  Which I hope it won't, of course.

 

As for the food sucking, it depends on what you like.  They have more American chain restaurants (Chili's, TGIF, etc.) there, for example.  But if you like Thai food, of course, Thailand might have an edge there ????

Edited October 12, 2023 by QuantumQuandry

[SuperSaiyan]

5 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Yes, they speak good English and that is part of the problem.  My experience with Phils girls are they are more western attitude and with their English, more argumentative and demanding.  Add the Phillipines is really a hole 3rd world desperate down grade from Thailand.  Good luck to those who choose it.

As if Thai girls won't have the same negative attitude. This isn't country specific, this is female biology specific. Also, western attitude isn't correct, they are still submissive and I think even more than Thai girls.

 

So, Thailand isn't a 3rd world sh... thing? Yeah PH is behind 20 years, as I initial wrote. Some people like it that way and some people don't.

[SuperSaiyan]

5 hours ago, hotchilli said:

My UK pension proper starts in 2025... if that looks like getting taxed I'm seriously looking at upping sticks after 15 years here. Especially as the pension would be frozen from the first year.

PH is on my list for the reasons you have stated.

Good decision and if you're based in the PH, under 180 days trips to Thailand are 2h flight away.

[SuperSaiyan]

4 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

To be honest with you, I'm not a very 'foodie' person anyway. Over the 20 years that I lived in Thailand I hardly ever ate Thai food. But for some people food would be a bigger consideration.

I am a big food enjoyer and I never ate street food in Thailand anyway, except the chicken at 5 am, drunk. I always bought stuff I like in the supermarket or went to restaurants I like. The PH are no different except if you're in a remote island/place, the food options might be more limited, but the same would apply if you would live in Isaan.

[LivinLOS]

49 minutes ago, Morch said:

When you say overseas credit card, would that apply to withdrawing from a Thai ATM? 

Probably.. I dont see how they track that TBH.. It will be inward banking remittances they look at.. 

But if I send it to my wife, who has never done a tax return in her life, is it then her liability not mine ?? 

The whole thing is badly laid out as it stands.. The idea they intend to blanket tax all inbound transfers fails so many logic tests its not going to happen (if I borrow money for an overseas mortgage, that is a debt not income.. If I am buying a villa or moving funds for an OX visa they want 35% of it ?? Cant happen). 

 

[sanooki]

9 hours ago, SuperSaiyan said:

Philippines is the way to go. It's 20 years behind in time, like it or hate it. No taxes on world income, no visa hassles and by that I mean absolutely ZERO. More young marriage type girls available and they speak English and not just "I go boom boom".

 

Maybe this is another topic, or subject of ridicule, but I wonder if anyone has had success taking their Thai wife to live in the Philippines?

[Andrew65]

6 minutes ago, SuperSaiyan said:

I am a big food enjoyer and I never ate street food in Thailand anyway, except the chicken at 5 am, drunk. I always bought stuff I like in the supermarket or went to restaurants I like. The PH are no different except if you're in a remote island/place, the food options might be more limited, but the same would apply if you would live in Isaan.

I was very fussy where and what I ate in Thailand. Like you, I never ate street food, not meat anyway (fruit's a bit different). If it's chicken or pork, I would never trust how long it had been out of the refrigerator/unfrozen etc (in a hot climate too). Also, I used to walk before dawn every morning in Bangkok. I would occasionally see rats rummaging around on the food carts that had been left chained to a lamp post overnight.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Andrew65

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Probably.. I dont see how they track that TBH.. It will be inward banking remittances they look at.. 

But if I send it to my wife, who has never done a tax return in her life, is it then her liability not mine ?? 

The whole thing is badly laid out as it stands.. The idea they intend to blanket tax all inbound transfers fails so many logic tests its not going to happen (if I borrow money for an overseas mortgage, that is a debt not income.. If I am buying a villa or moving funds for an OX visa they want 35% of it ?? Cant happen). 

 

Thank you.

 

That the whole thing is unorganized, not well thought out and badly communicated is no guarantee they won't go forward with it. A few months of chaos, then some back-tracking, face-saving 'solution' stuck half way - with the whole thing not scrapped, but not applied/enforced. Some of the visa related changes worked out like that.

[ThomasThBKK]

15 minutes ago, QuantumQuandry said:

Yes, it does cost more to bounce between two places.  You are totally right.  It's an option, though.  Everyone's situations is different.

 

 It's not only the cost... friends, pets, home, relationships... you can have multiple houses but only one home. 

I have zero interest in bumming around the world these days, those times are behind me, would just be a strain on relationships, friends, family, not to mention house maintenance etc. 

[Banana7]

29 minutes ago, Lopburikid said:

No, I said state pensions MAYBE exempt. If they are taxed, they should be taxed at Thailand's tax rate which is under 150,000 0% tax. over 150,000 up to 300,000 is 5%. 300,000 to 500,000 is 10%. 500.000 to 750,000 is 15%., and so on.

You can physically bring into Thailand up to USD$20,000 without declaring it. Maybe open a bank account in a nearby country, transfer money to it, then visit it and withdraw U$19K and bring it into Thailand, once or more times a year, depending on your needs.

 

[deejai33]

5 hours ago, mania said:

That would be a tough one...I wonder how you prove it is savings?

 

I think it should be on the other foot...meaning they prove its not. If I say I'm retired & my income is SS & savings & they think otherwise then it is they who need to prove that

 

I mean how do I prove this money of savings? I can of course prove my SS is X amount a month with the US SS verification letter but savings? I have no idea

Its about an audit trail of transactions.   That is what shows which money is 'savings', which money is earned income in 2023, which money is untaxed rental income.

 

Each incoming/outgoing transaction has a date, source, destination and amount.  

 

If you transfer 100 units from savings account which has old, taxed money in it (shown by previous transactions), then you can show its 'savings'.

 

(Although I think the issue is more about is money already taxed, rather than is it 'savings').

 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by deejai33