Expats seeking a new life face challenges with stricter banking and taxation rules being pushed

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, SuperSaiyan said:

Philippines is the way to go. It's 20 years behind in time, like it or hate it. No taxes on world income, no visa hassles and by that I mean absolutely ZERO. More young marriage type girls available and they speak English and not just "I go boom boom".

 

My UK pension proper starts in 2025... if that looks like getting taxed I'm seriously looking at upping sticks after 15 years here. Especially as the pension would be frozen from the first year.

PH is on my list for the reasons you have stated.

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

The changes impact American expats less, with the Social Security Administration paying benefits directly to Thai bank accounts.

Please explain "less." The proposed new Thai law taxes foreign transfers as income. Period.

What does it matter what the transferring institution (US Treasury, US commercial banks via US Treasury) is? 

And what if the US Treasury withheld taxes prior to direct foreign transfer, ie., at beneficiaries request?

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

ESG-friendly policies to further the 2015 UN Sustainable Development Goals, including climate action.

Someone in another post asked me, what harm does 'woke' do me?

Well, here it is!

[AhFarangJa]

1 hour ago, Flying Saucage said:

All the UN Aganda 2030 is about total and global control of the people, and the de-banking to force the people to submit to this new-world-order is one of the means they introduce to implement this total control.

 

Nobody asks for CBDCs and a cashless society, nobody asks digital ID, and this all has nothing to do with a climate change or whatsoever. It's just to take everything from the people.

 

Finally your will lose your freedom, your house, your car, your wealths. You will own nothing but be happy is what they tell you in their own words. You will live somewhere in a so called 'SMART' 15-minutes city under total control, forced to eat insects, while your land will owned by the globalists. This is not a conspiracy theory. This is what they tell you in their own words already today. 

 

I left Europe as Thailand is some  years behind in this agenda. But the new government seems to be keen on accelerate everything now.

100% true, Klaus Schwab actually said it, you will own nothing but you will be happy. As I have said many times, the people telling you to give up everything will be giving up nothing. You will eat insects, while they eat steaks, they will limit your travel, while they fly around in private jets. Do as I say, not as I do. Most governments have signed up to the WHO pandemic treaty which starts in May 2024. Then you will all be governed by what the WHO dictate. They can call a pandemic whenever they want, and implement stricter controls on everyone. Still people walk around blindly ignorant.

[nobodysfriend]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

all expats are impacted by corporate moves to pursue ESG-friendly policies to further the 2015 UN Sustainable Development Goals, including climate action.

Sure , it is the fault of Sustainable Development Goals , that expats need to pay more taxes ... Bunch of greedy , hypocritical A - holes , who just use this to fill their coffers , but blame it on sustainable energy transformation .

[AhFarangJa]

9 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

My UK pension proper starts in 2025... if that looks like getting taxed I'm seriously looking at upping sticks after 15 years here. Especially as the pension would be frozen from the first year.

PH is on my list for the reasons you have stated.

Mine is due to start at any time now. I will wait and see what pans out, but it looks like Cambodia may be my next stop as we live close to the border. Or will they implement it too? We will see.

[RichardColeman]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

 The situation has come about due to moves by leading UK banks to restrict services to overseas residents and a new push by the Revenue Department in Thailand to widen its tax base, targeting tax residents in the kingdom deriving income from abroad.

They need a more better definition of income - savings are NOT income. If I had worked all my life and had saved and had a million quid and paid UK full tax, I find it hard to believe that Thailand would be trying to tax it a 2nd time.

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by RichardColeman

[daveAustin]

44 minutes ago, Expat68 said:

Think I will bring money in before new year, that will give me another year and see what happens 

I was thinking the same, but are they going to be looking at transfers from 2024 or wealth here in general?

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, Bim Smith said:

I am a little lost on how. climate change has anything to do with having a bank account in your home country. As Thailand is preparing for a cashless society in addition to many countries forgive me if I am a little cynical over the whole global cabal dominated governance.

Cynicism isn't a legal defence for not paying any income tax that you are assessed as being liable for.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Government agendas and leading firms, including banks, are increasingly dominated by environmental, social, and governance values pushed by bodies such as the United Nations and intergovernmental panels. The trend especially includes the financial industry. This growing impetus has begun to impact Western expats living in Thailand, challenging their lifestyle with the curtailment of trusted bank facilities in their home countries. There is also an increased push towards the global taxation principle targeting those who have sought a better lifestyle abroad and, in many cases, more personal freedom.

 

I've been saying for some time that it's only going to get worse, and not only in Thailand for farangs. Everything is getting worse, not better, IMO.

 

 

Government agendas and leading firms, including banks, are increasingly dominated by one world government bodies such as the United Nations and intergovernmental panels.

 

Fixed it for you.

 

[newbee2022]

2 hours ago, FarAway said:

Still a lot of countries to go if you wanna live tax-free:

 

Antigua and Barbuda	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[3][4]
Bahamas	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Bahrain	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Brunei	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Cayman Islands	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Kuwait	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Monaco	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[6]
Oman	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Pitcairn Islands	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[7]
Qatar	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Saint Barthélemy	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[8][Note 1]
Saint Kitts and Nevis	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[11]
Turks and Caicos Islands	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[12]
United Arab Emirates	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Vanuatu	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[13]
Vatican City	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[14]
Wallis and Futuna	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[15]
Western Sahara	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[16]
North Korea	No*	No**	No	No tax on income of resident citizens,[17] residence-based taxation of foreigners, territorial taxation of nonresident citizens.[18] * Except foreigners and nonresident citizens. ** Except foreigners.
Angola	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Anguilla	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[19]
Belize	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[20]
Bermuda	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Bhutan	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[21][22]
Bolivia	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[23][24]
Botswana	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
British Virgin Islands	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Costa Rica	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Democratic Republic of the Congo	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Djibouti	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[25]
Eswatini	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Georgia	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Grenada	Yes	No	No	Territorial Taxation.[26]
Guatemala	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Guinea-Bissau	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[27][28]
Hong Kong	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Lebanon	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Libya	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5][29]
Macau	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Malawi	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Marshall Islands	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[30]
Micronesia	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[31]
Namibia	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Nauru	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[32]
Nicaragua	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Palau	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[33]
Palestine	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Panama	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Paraguay	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[34][35][36][Note 2]
Seychelles	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Singapore	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Somalia	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[37]
Syria	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[38]
Tokelau	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[39]
Tuvalu	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[40]
Zambia	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]

Thank you for the list. I wonder if I can have an accomodation in the Vatican? Probably I've to show special qualification?????

[Lopburikid]

2 hours ago, Jonathan Swift said:

Wonder how they’ll pull this off without forcing banks to disclose all incoming int’l money transfers? I will have to ask my bank. Seems like it might be hard to universally enforce this.

I think/ know Thai banks would/will quite willingly give the government/tax office details of foreigner's bank accounts if asked for. Plus the banks charge for transfers this gives them the perfect reason to charge if they are required to collecting taxes. As far as I know UK pensions are not paid via a UK bank, but from an overseas government bank. I maybe wrong.

[Jenkins9039]

2 hours ago, FarAway said:

 

It does not matter if they enforce it immediately or not. From 2024, you are not able to generate tax-free offshore money anymore while having your tax residency in Thailand. 
Everyone with a high offshore-income will leave Thailand as his tax residency within the next months.

 

Not at all, personally spoke with the Revenue Department.

 

The fact i own a equity or a company overseas is irrelevant, if i bring funds in it becomes relevant (taxable).

 

UK can't tax non-residents (they'd have to provide something in return) - for example I've been out of the UK far too long i am entitled to NO NHS, NO PENSION, NO VOTING. etc.

 

Citizenship for no-tax countries ranges from 100,000$-300,000$.

 

Thailand is merely taxing income/funds brought in, if you can provide evidence its savings (even outside of DTA) then that's all you need to do.

[RichardColeman]

2 hours ago, FarAway said:

From 2024, you are not able to generate tax-free offshore money anymore while having your tax residency in Thailand. 

OK, makes sense, you earn abroad and do not pay tax there you pay it here. BUT, what about savings - savings are not a generated income. How on earth would thailand separate the two in bank transfers ? How can Thailand know that I am sending £1,000 from my savings or from any income ? If Thailand is only suggesting 'wages' paid into a Thai account are taxable, then I think maybe we can all agree with them. 

 

 

 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, FarAway said:

Approx. 90% of the Expats in Thailand are losers, hippies, child molesters, LGBTQ or whatsoever. 

Do you have any figures, surveys or, you know, facts to back up what you claim? Or did you just make it up? I'd guess - guess, not claim are as you do - that 90% are the 'whatsoevers', which is normal people. Where are you, by the way, and if in Thailand which category do you fit into?

[daveAustin]

47 minutes ago, alanrchase said:

Brits that used to chuckle at US citizens and the way they were treated by the IRS are now going to have to swallow the same medicine. 

Nice dig. How about Brits, or any other nationality, that didn’t used to chuckle? 

This whole thing just smacks of government/banking overreach and the continued lack of freedom in the world. Since the 70s, I cannot recall a <deleted>tier time to be alive than post-2020, whether it be wokism, cancel culture, curtailment of opinion, the extreme left, extreme right, warring d.heads, exponential increases in expenditure etc etc. I pity the younger generations for the utter sh1tshow ‘we’ have created. 

[bkk6060]

4 hours ago, SuperSaiyan said:

More young marriage type girls available and they speak English and not just "I go boom boom".

Yes, they speak good English and that is part of the problem.  My experience with Phils girls are they are more western attitude and with their English, more argumentative and demanding.  Add the Phillipines is really a hole 3rd world desperate down grade from Thailand.  Good luck to those who choose it.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, RichardColeman said:

OK, makes sense, you earn abroad and do not pay tax there you pay it here. BUT, what about savings - savings are not a generated income. How on earth would thailand separate the two in bank transfers ? How can Thailand know that I am sending £1,000 from my savings or from any income ? If Thailand is only suggesting 'wages' paid into a Thai account are taxable, then I think maybe we can all agree with them. 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps it comes down to proof. If you can prove the money comes from savings then not taxed in LOS. If can't prove it then taxed.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, daveAustin said:

Nice dig. How about Brits, or any other nationality, that didn’t used to chuckle? 

This whole thing just smacks of government/banking overreach and the continued lack of freedom in the world. Since the 70s, I cannot recall a <deleted>tier time to be alive than post-2020, whether it be wokism, cancel culture, curtailment of opinion, the extreme left, extreme right, warring d.heads, exponential increases in expenditure etc etc. I pity the younger generations for the utter sh1tshow ‘we’ have created. 

While I agree with you, don't include me in "we". I've always been opposed to establishment over reach, and do not agree with any of the current IMO insanity in financial and societal activities.

[alanrchase]

Just now, daveAustin said:

Nice dig. How about Brits, or any other nationality, that didn’t used to chuckle? 

This whole thing just smacks of government/banking overreach and the continued lack of freedom in the world. Since the 70s, I cannot recall a <deleted>tier time to be alive than post-2020, whether it be wokism, cancel culture, curtailment of opinion, the extreme left, extreme right, warring d.heads, exponential increases in expenditure etc etc. I pity the younger generations for the utter sh1tshow ‘we’ have created. 

I mentioned Brits because the OP is about Brits. CRS compliance will affect all tax resident expats whose home countries are signatories. I agree with you on government overreach as well but my bank does not impose any regulations on me other that those needed to comply with that government overreach. 

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, FarAway said:

 

It does not matter if they enforce it immediately or not. From 2024, you are not able to generate tax-free offshore money anymore while having your tax residency in Thailand. 
Everyone with a high offshore-income will leave Thailand as his tax residency within the next months.

 

Why? The rules start on 1st January 2024 so there's a whole fiscal (tax) year to get your ducks in a row.

 

Anyone with any sense will familiarize themselves with any dual-taxation agreement their banking homeland may have in place with Thailand and make sure that their declared tax domicile is the one that takes the least money.

 

Those without a foreign tax domicile will need to bite the bullet and file their taxes here.

 

Otherwise Cambodia, Philippines (and North Korea and Palestine) eagerly awaits you.

 

In all honesty, I seriously doubt that living in Thailand features as a viable option for those of true high net worth. They may have a condo (or a yacht) here but they drop their hard-earned in much nicer places.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Yes, they speak good English and that is part of the problem.  My experience with Phils girls are they are more western attitude and with their English, more argumentative and demanding.  Add the Phillipines is really a hole 3rd world desperate down grade from Thailand.  Good luck to those who choose it.

I worked with many Phils women and they are just as bad as western women when it comes to relationships, IMO.

I did meet one exception though, but it wasn't meant to be.

[wombat]

2 hours ago, Presnock said:

tell the banks their housing and properties were worth tons of dollars when they weren't and getting cheap loans but telling the tax people that their properties were much cheaper

Should i find myself in the same position I would too.

I'm guessing you're straight arrow and wouldnt/dont/didn't?

[Lacessit]

I can't see how this affects me. My pension is paid into an Australian financial institution. I transfer funds periodically to Thailand via WISE.

Unless the Thai government is going to start taxing ALL transfers from foreign countries into Thailand, which would be an administrative nightmare.

[mania]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps it comes down to proof. If you can prove the money comes from savings then not taxed in LOS. If can't prove it then taxed.

That would be a tough one...I wonder how you prove it is savings?

 

I think it should be on the other foot...meaning they prove its not. If I say I'm retired & my income is SS & savings & they think otherwise then it is they who need to prove that

 

I mean how do I prove this money of savings? I can of course prove my SS is X amount a month with the US SS verification letter but savings? I have no idea

[Walker88]

1 hour ago, alanrchase said:

I have no issues with my big bank. The issues are all due to government regulations imposed on that big bank. These new issues are all due to CRS compliance, nothing to do with the banks. Brits that used to chuckle at US citizens and the way they were treated by the IRS are now going to have to swallow the same medicine. 

While we do get taxed on overseas' earnings, the first $120,000 is exempt from US tax.

[Expat68]

26 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

I was thinking the same, but are they going to be looking at transfers from 2024 or wealth here in general?

They can't go back to 2023, they can only tax interest on your bank account in 2024, which will be below the threshold 

[JoePai]

2 hours ago, FarAway said:

 

Because people are sheep. They follow the masses. And the masses go to Thailand.

Approx. 90% of the Expats in Thailand are losers, hippies, child molesters, LGBTQ or whatsoever. 

I just stayed here because of my wife and my daughter and because it was difficult to sell my house in a remote area. Now it will be sold and we can escape the coming Thaksin era. Oh boy, Thailand will not be the same under his rule anymore.

 

Yes you were not allowed to criticize the military, but therefore they gave us freedom. Giving and taking.

But Thaksin's homeboys are names like George Soros and so on, like THE WORLD ELITE. Thailand will be a complete dystopian nightmare soon.

 

Territorial taxation - Gone 

Gun ownership - Heavily restricted

CBDC with possibility to restrict spending radius and time - Incoming and people even beg for it

A possible next pandemic - Mask mania and this time QR-code-style like in Europe with no escape for "conspiracy theorists"

 

 

And ALL of the above is marketed as "good for the people" while it just serves the purpose of making the powerful people even more powerful and the "average joe" more powerless.

 

And as we know our fellow Thai people, none of them will dare to open their mouth. 

 

Seems the only conspiracy theorist here is you ????

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, FarAway said:

Because people are sheep. They follow the masses. And the masses go to Thailand.

In 2009, it was the easiest country for me to live.

1 year VISA cost 120gbp for anyone over 50yo, purchased by post in the UK, 3 days from applying to having the stamped passport in my hand, reason 'to look around Thailand'.

[jesimps]

2 hours ago, Presnock said:

So correct, loan you money at one interest rate and then money that they have loaned out and been repaid at a higher interest rate is then loaned to

you at a higher interest rate. They are using monies from others to loan to you.  Something like Trump and his family did for years - tell the banks their housing and properties were worth tons of dollars when they weren't and getting cheap loans but telling the tax people that their properties were much cheaper.  

I knew Donald Trump would be blamed sooner or later. It's overflowing with lefty expats in Thailand.