Analysis Israel's options don't look good - but a full-scale military campaign in the near future is inevitable

[Morch]

36 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Truth is the first casualty of war!

You're obviously doing your bit for the war effort, then.

[Morch]

32 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Johnathan Cook holds different views on the conflict than I. Try to read my reply to poster in the context of his usual content on these topics.

 

Fixed it for you.

Nope. Cook holds extreme, one-sided views. There's nothing impartial about him. If you ever met him you'd understand. Same as some posters on here, but more into it. Obsessed, even.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, riclag said:

I think its safe to say a majority of Gaza inhabitants support Hamas,after all didn’t they elect them as a governing body!

 

The rocket attacks on the Israel must stop and all the hostages must be released unconditionally!

IMO that is never going to happen. Hamas is in a fight to the death, and the hostages are their only bargaining point.

 

What should happen is that the two state solution should happen, but that's not going to happen either. That option vanished when the first illegal settlement was built.

[Trippy]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO that is never going to happen. Hamas is in a fight to the death, and the hostages are their only bargaining point.

 

What should happen is that the two state solution should happen, but that's not going to happen either. That option vanished when the first illegal settlement was built.

The muslims never wanted a 2 state solution, they only want dead Jews. As you do.

[Morch]

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Back at you.

 

 

I have already commented that I find these attempts to minimize israeli atrocities through focusing on this detail or that, repulsive. There's no shortage of evil associated with this attack. That you, and other posters on here keep harping on it, despite there being gruesome pictures out there, demanding they be posted on here or else all of what is claimed is untrue - that's just vile. 

 

There are, naturally, inaccurate reports - that's quite normal for a battle zone. To discount everything, or to condone and minimize what israel did - that's already a choice. Apparently, you've made yours long ago.

 

 

Lame.

 

Carrying out a deliberate attack, planned and trained for months, specifically aimed at killing civilians is not quite the same as what the IDF does. There's no serious source claiming this. That was my original point. Had Hamas limited his attack to the IDF bases overrun, they'd get the same results with less of a backlash. Going after civilians was a choice.

[Morch]

22 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sorry, but the UN hasn't been able to fix this for 30 years, and won't fix it in the future because the US can veto anything they come up with.

 

I'd say that israel has just created 2 million new Hamas supporters. Hate begets hate. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum.

 

 

What you 'say' assumes all Gazans are blind, all fully support the Hamas and so no. On some of interviews conducted with fleeing Gazans, some have the courage (or enough rage) to directly blame Hamas for their current plight. Not instead of their hatred and issues with Israel - just more complicated than your simplistic view.

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Please stop making it up about me.

I support the innocent lives being lost by israeli bombing on a defenseless population.

If killing 724 children is OK with you, that is on you.

 

The world is watching, the world will not forget.

If you post something, as your opinion, then it is to en extent 'about you'.

You now focus solely on Palestinian children. Don't recall you having that much faux compassion expressed a few days earlier, when Hamas decided to massacre Israeli children. No issues with Hamas urging Palestinians to remain in harm's way. No...it's all 'Israel Bad' for you.

 

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO that is never going to happen. Hamas is in a fight to the death, and the hostages are their only bargaining point.

 

What should happen is that the two state solution should happen, but that's not going to happen either. That option vanished when the first illegal settlement was built.

Is Hamas interested in the two-state solution much?

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, Trippy said:

The muslims never wanted a 2 state solution, they only want dead Jews. As you do.

Don't conflate one group with the Muslims. The Jews don't hold one opinion, neither do the Muslims.

Edited October 15, 2023 by stevenl

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, Trippy said:

The muslims never wanted a 2 state solution, they only want dead Jews. As you do.

Arab Peace Initiative

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

 

Learn your facts and history.

[MikeandDow]

Just now, Morch said:

Arab Peace Initiative

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

 

Learn your facts and history.

This is not so simple as "yes arab accept agreement as a lot of arab nations did not attend also Hamas did not agree " it is not black and white

[MikeandDow]

Just now, Morch said:

Is Hamas interested in the two-state solution much?

the answer to that is NO

[Jeff the Chef]

36 minutes ago, Morch said:

He's welcome to hold alternative views - I just find the despicable. I think that's allowed.

 

What you find disgusting is common sense. As in, acknowledging that's not quite what was said, and that visiting USA officials commented directly on the atrocities as being worse than what they saw from Daesh.

 

Your not making a lot of sense here to me, who is welcome to hold an alternative view?

I just find the despicable. I think that's allowed. No idea what you're on about here.

 

I have no problem with common sense, what I find disgusting is misinformation masquerading as truth.

 

 

 

 

 

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

This is not so simple as "yes arab accept agreement as a lot of arab nations did not attend also Hamas did not agree " it is not black and white

It's very simple in the context of the post I replied to.

That post claims Muslims had no interest in a two-state solution.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

It's very simple in the context of the post I replied to.

That post claims Muslims had no interest in a two-state solution.

Correction, the post said 'The Muslims ....'. Small word, significant difference.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Your not making a lot of sense here to me, who is welcome to hold an alternative view?

I just find the despicable. I think that's allowed. No idea what you're on about here.

 

I have no problem with common sense, what I find disgusting is misinformation masquerading as truth.

 

 

 

 

 

Yawn. Obviously, other posters are entitled to their views. The same way I'm entitled to disagree with them. Doubt you didn't get it even before your original comment.

 

You've posted inaccurate, untrue stuff yourself, not to mention nonsense posts. Your issue with 'misinformation masquerading as truth' is quite obviously one sided.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Correction, the post said 'The Muslims ....'. Small word, significant difference.

Yeah whatever, that's what I meant.

[MikeandDow]

Just now, Morch said:

It's very simple in the context of the post I replied to.

That post claims Muslims had no interest in a two-state solution.

again it is not a simple "yes or no"  there is a lot of ambiguity  Quote "problem with the Arab peace initiative is that it includes recognition of the state of Israel, the thing that the Palestinian government rejects"

[Hanaguma]

52 minutes ago, Trippy said:

The muslims never wanted a 2 state solution, they only want dead Jews. As you do.

This is the ultimate truth. There is no negotiating with a group whose founding documents call for your murder. 

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

This is the ultimate truth. There is no negotiating with a group whose founding documents call for your murder. 

Again, nonsense. Conflating the Muslims with one group is not correct. The Muslims don't hold one opinion, just as the Jews don't hold one opinion.

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

again it is not a simple "yes or no"  there is a lot of ambiguity  Quote "problem with the Arab peace initiative is that it includes recognition of the state of Israel, the thing that the Palestinian government rejects"

Read the original broad brush post I replied to. Read my comment. It's simple.

Making unqualified generalizations is often wrong.

[MikeandDow]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

This is the ultimate truth. There is no negotiating with a group whose founding documents call for your murder. 

are you talking about "The Hamas Covenant"  if so you are correct

[Jeff the Chef]

47 minutes ago, Morch said:

Arab Peace Initiative

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

 

Learn your facts and history.

The world would run out of paper and ink before the Arabs or the Israeli's could agree to peace face it it's never going to happen. 

[MikeandDow]

Just now, Morch said:

Read the original broad brush post I replied to. Read my comment. It's simple.

Making unqualified generalizations is often wrong.

I think you are Making unqualified generalizations read the Arab peace Initative which I dont think you have

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

I think you are Making unqualified generalizations read the Arab peace Initative which I dont think you have

I have, actually.

And even if I wouldn't have my comment would be correct.

It was essentially a two-state peace offer made by Arab nations, overwhelmingly comprised and let by Muslims.

Real easy stuff.

[Hanaguma]

9 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

I think you are Making unqualified generalizations read the Arab peace Initative which I dont think you have

I prefer the recent, more informal Israeli Peace Initiative: "Leave us the fvck alone or we will kill you".

[MikeandDow]

Just now, Morch said:

I have, actually.

And even if I wouldn't have my comment would be correct.

It was essentially a two-state peace offer made by Arab nations, overwhelmingly comprised and let by Muslims.

Real easy stuff.

you forget to metion that Not all Arab nation attened and Hamas fundamentally dissagrees 

Edited October 15, 2023 by MikeandDow

[novacova]

51 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

are you talking about "The Hamas Covenant"  if so you are correct

…& unfortunately some find comfort in willful ignorance. Any willful misunderstanding and objectively of how we got here, then it’s safe to assume that the ropes been cut & the ship has sailed and it’s not coming back…

 

The Ideology of Mass Murder:

https://quillette.com/2023/10/10/the-ideology-of-mass-murder/

Edited October 15, 2023 by novacova

[connda]

The horror.....
The inhumanity....
What should be done???

“The attackers came at dawn, quickly occupying the town. The men were separated from the women and shot. One of the attackers, opening the door of one of the homes, found an old man standing there. He shot him. ‘He enjoyed shooting him,’ an eyewitness to the attack said afterwards.

   
Soon the town was empty—the entire population of 5,000 had either been killed or expelled, those who survived put on trucks, and driven to Gaza. The empty homes were looted. ‘We were very happy,’ one of the participants said afterwards. ‘If you don’t take it, someone else will. You don’t feel you have to give it back. They were not coming back.’”

[MikeandDow]

Just now, novacova said:

…& unfortunately some find comfort in willful ignorance. Any willful understanding objectively of how we got here, then it’s safe to assume that the ropes been cut & the ship has sailed and it’s not coming back…

 

The Ideology of Mass Murder:

https://quillette.com/2023/10/10/the-ideology-of-mass-murder/

some good comments at the end of the article but nothing really new