Condo Market price trends ? Pattaya/Jomtien

[strikingsunset]

With all the current rumours regarding the new taxation policy from January next year, how is the property  market up or down ?  

Thanks

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by strikingsunset

[SingAPorn]

Many are trying to sell off their properties but nobody is wanting to buy any more. No matter what the price may be.

[WhatMeWorry]

11 minutes ago, SingAPorn said:

Many are trying to sell off their properties but nobody is wanting to buy any more. No matter what the price may be.

So very true, price does not seem to matter anymore. The condo market is dead right now.

[SingAPorn]

4 minutes ago, WhatMeWorry said:

So very true, price does not seem to matter anymore. The condo market is dead right now.

This is where the cheats, agents and speculators will show up and make an offer that is just a ripp off as it will be far lower then what you initially paid and it's worth. The main targets usually are the foreigners who have purchased or leasehold and are wanting to leave following the new tax rules and constant immigration hassles.

[BangkokAlan]

35 minutes ago, SingAPorn said:

Many are trying to sell off their properties but nobody is wanting to buy any more. No matter what the price may be.

I don't agree I have just sold a unit in central Pattaya at more than I paid granted its 12 years old and in a good location and good condition. Justh had two agents wanting to know if I will sell another. Units in the right development will always sell. Poor quality or bad locations won't even sell in a bull market.

[BangkokAlan]

52 minutes ago, strikingsunset said:

With all the current rumours regarding the new taxation policy from January next year, how is the property  market up or down ?  

Thanks

 

With all the current tax discussions it's not clear yet but money coming in for property purchase showing the purchase contract I am sure will be exempt as there are clear processes in place now to show how funds will be used. Otherwise, the property market is dead for foreigners, but good locations will be worth a lot more bought by Thai in the best developments in area such as Jomtien and NaJomtien areas. 

[newnative]

     My partner and I just sold our current house by Lake Mabprachan on Monday.  Korean/Thai couple, buying as an investment to rent out.  We are now in an almost finished, newly-built house in a new project, also near the lake.  Our build started in February. The first phase of 5 houses are all sold, and about finished.  The second phase of 25 more houses have started construction and all but a few have buyers. 

    Yesterday, a young Chinese couple, one of the buyers of a phase 2 house, knocked on our door and asked to see our almost finished house.  They seemed very nice and friendly, with good English.  We've also had an older, retired Dutch couple also ask to tour our home and they ended up buying one of the remaining phase 2 homes, just beginning to be built so they can have some input on the design, materials, and finishes.  All of the buyers we have met, so far, plan to live in their homes, rather than buying as an investment, in this new project.  

     Our last house was sold after the new tax proposals were announced--as were the Chinese and Dutch buys I mentioned.   It remains to be seen what the proposed tax changes for 2024 will mean for the housing and the real estate market down the road--if and when they take hold.  Housing, of course, is a huge economic segment that contributes greatly to all the large industries that are part of it--everything from big and small appliances, electronics, plumbing and electrical products, lumber, concrete, tile, steel, lighting, furniture, landscaping, and all the other building materials industries, plus all the jobs involved with all of the businesses, including designing, engineering, constructing, marketing, and selling property.  Should housing take a steep nosedive in Thailand in the coming months and into the new year, especially with the vital foreign buyer market, I know where I will be pointing my finger.  

[Celsius]

It is going to the moon

[Sigmund]

4 hours ago, BangkokAlan said:

I don't agree I have just sold a unit in central Pattaya at more than I paid granted its 12 years old and in a good location and good condition. Justh had two agents wanting to know if I will sell another. Units in the right development will always sell. Poor quality or bad locations won't even sell in a bull market.

Thai's will buy obviously but no more foreigners.

[Pattaya57]

6 minutes ago, Sigmund said:

Thai's will buy obviously but no more foreigners.

This is hilarious that people believe if you buy a condo for 6 million you'll be taxed on the 6 million coming into Thailand

 

However it's also sad that Thailand has put this new tax ruling out there without clearly defining what it means, and don't seem to care the panic or negativity it's creating

[champers]

It could be argued that a market is being created for the personnel of companies coming to invest in the EEC. Those companies come from many countries including China, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan.

Do current builds bring enough supply for forecast demand? (A rhetorical question that I don't think people on here can answer).

[jacko45k]

6 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

However it's also sad that Thailand has put this new tax ruling out there without clearly defining what it means, and don't seem to care the panic or negativity it's creating

It's kind of how they do things here. 

[Henryford]

7 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

This is hilarious that people believe if you buy a condo for 6 million you'll be taxed on the 6 million coming into Thailand

 

Yes that can't possibly be the case. If the Government tried it they would totally destroy the foreign condo market.

[strikingsunset]

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

So I can take my time.

OP

[kinyara]

14 hours ago, strikingsunset said:

With all the current rumours regarding the new taxation policy from January next year, how is the property  market up or down ?  

Thanks

 

One of the hardest questions to answer with any degree of certainty now more than ever.  So many different factors at play both on the domestic economic and political policy front and with regard to potential foreign investment and its global economic impacts. 

 

I enjoy the place and wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but taking an objective viewpoint I'd find the decision to buy a lot harder to make now than when I did 20 years ago, it was a no-brainer to me back then, now I don't think it offers the same all round value/living proposition for a number of reasons, social, political and on pure economic grounds.

 

 

 

 

[newnative]

9 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

This is hilarious that people believe if you buy a condo for 6 million you'll be taxed on the 6 million coming into Thailand

 

However it's also sad that Thailand has put this new tax ruling out there without clearly defining what it means, and don't seem to care the panic or negativity it's creating

    I think you've hit it.  Certainly it would seem ridiculous to slap a big tax on large sums of money coming in to buy a condo, a buy which helps so many interconnected businesses and industries that are such important components in the Thai economy.  Not just ridiculous but madness, in my opinion.   There will always be some Thai buyers for any condo project.  But, will there be enough for each project built to buy the 49% of the units that foreigners often buy in a project?  In many cases, I think not.

    There's been such a poor job so far of, as you say, 'clearly defining what it means...', that we have 100+ pages of fear, panic, and uncertainty on the original tax proposal thread trying to puzzle it all out.  And, as everyone knows, fear, panic, and uncertainty are not positives when the subject is the state of the economy.

   I've decided to nickname the new prime minister PM Sansiri.  And, I hope he will soon be getting an earful from Mr. Supalai, Mr. Lumpini, Mr. Raimon, Mr. SC Asset, Mr. Noble, and all the other big hitters in the housing industry.  Maybe they can knock some sense into him.

[JimTripper]

We are headed into a global recession. The price trend for property is down. If you bought property in the last few years you're roadkill as inflation goes up.

[kinyara]

37 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

We are headed into a global recession. The price trend for property is down. If you bought property in the last few years you're roadkill as inflation goes up.

Possibly if you bought with a short-term investor outlook with borrowed money, but why would that matter if you bought your property in the last few years as your long-term retirement home. You've made your financial commitment, taken exchange rate uncertainty out of the equation for what would be your major expense if you hadn't bought, and you can get on with enjoying life in the comfort of your own home. 

 

 

[vukovar77]

18 hours ago, BangkokAlan said:

I don't agree I have just sold a unit in central Pattaya at more than I paid granted its 12 years old and in a good location and good condition. Justh had two agents wanting to know if I will sell another. Units in the right development will always sell. Poor quality or bad locations won't even sell in a bull market.

Maybe you are real estate agent or maybe that is "an exeption to the rule",but change in tax policy matters .Anyone can see prices of the construction thai com. and develppers  on SET plunge pretty much recently,same as REITS(even more).

We will see further development,but without foreigners in the market ,prices can go down more,from my point of view.I hope that Government will exclude money for buy condo from abroad for taxation clearly .

Edited October 14, 2023 by vukovar77
make more clear

[newnative]

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

We are headed into a global recession. The price trend for property is down. If you bought property in the last few years you're roadkill as inflation goes up.

     I'm curious to hear your thinking as to why someone would be, in your words, 'roadkill as inflation goes up', if they, as you say, 'bought property in the last few years'.   My spouse and I are in that category.  In the last few years, we bought a condo and two houses.  Sold the last of the three just this past Monday, as I mentioned in another post.  Made a profit on each of the sales and we are now scheduled to go to closing, by the end of the month, to buy a house we have been building most of this year to live in.  The house has already increased in value as the year has gone on and we could sell right now and make a profit, should we choose.  We don't.

    So, we will have a nice roof over our heads we own free and clear, plus a chunk of cash already here in Thailand, from our 3 property sales, to draw upon.  What, pray tell, makes us 'roadkill' in that scenario?   By the way, if the price of a loaf of bread doubles due to inflation, it makes no difference if you're sitting in a rental condo or one you own--you'll be paying the higher price either way if you want that loaf of bread.  The baker doesn't care a fig if you own or rent

    The guy who owns, though, might have some extra cash in his pocket to handle the price increase, since he didn't have to shell out what might be a fairly sizeable amount of his monthly income to pay the rent.  And, yes, to be fair, on the flip side, the rental guy might have gotten a nice monthly dividend check, because he invested his money in stocks or other investments, rather than buying a condo.  So, he can also have extra money in his pocket and afford the price increase on the bread, if his investment picks have panned out. 

    Neither one 'roadkill', in my book.  That might be the guy who did nothing, and just watched his money steadily fritter away.

[Pattaya57]

This thread makes me want to go out looking for some condo fire sales as panicked owners try to sell before market apparently crashes due 1 Jan tax ????

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Pattaya57

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, Pattaya57 said:

This thread makes me want to go out looking for some condo fire sales as panicked owners try to sell before market apparently crashes due 1 Jan tax ????

 

Yep, the buy high sell low investors, we all like those types

[BangkokAlan]

4 hours ago, vukovar77 said:

Maybe you are real estate agent or maybe that is "an exeption to the rule",but change in tax policy matters .Anyone can see prices of the construction thai com. and develppers  on SET plunge pretty much recently,same as REITS(even more).

We will see further development,but without foreigners in the market ,prices can go down more,from my point of view.I hope that Government will exclude money for buy condo from abroad for taxation clearly .

I am not a real estate agent Iam an owner and landlord in Pattaya. nobody knows what will happen, but chances are they won't affect the property market with further taxes it will kill the industry. They said no one would come back after covid and that visa issues would stop foreigners but Thailand is still a favored country for retirement. Let's wait and see what the taxes are as none of us know.

[bradiston]

18 hours ago, newnative said:

     My partner and I just sold our current house by Lake Mabprachan on Monday.  Korean/Thai couple, buying as an investment to rent out.  We are now in an almost finished, newly-built house in a new project, also near the lake.  Our build started in February. The first phase of 5 houses are all sold, and about finished.  The second phase of 25 more houses have started construction and all but a few have buyers. 

    Yesterday, a young Chinese couple, one of the buyers of a phase 2 house, knocked on our door and asked to see our almost finished house.  They seemed very nice and friendly, with good English.  We've also had an older, retired Dutch couple also ask to tour our home and they ended up buying one of the remaining phase 2 homes, just beginning to be built so they can have some input on the design, materials, and finishes.  All of the buyers we have met, so far, plan to live in their homes, rather than buying as an investment, in this new project.  

     Our last house was sold after the new tax proposals were announced--as were the Chinese and Dutch buys I mentioned.   It remains to be seen what the proposed tax changes for 2024 will mean for the housing and the real estate market down the road--if and when they take hold.  Housing, of course, is a huge economic segment that contributes greatly to all the large industries that are part of it--everything from big and small appliances, electronics, plumbing and electrical products, lumber, concrete, tile, steel, lighting, furniture, landscaping, and all the other building materials industries, plus all the jobs involved with all of the businesses, including designing, engineering, constructing, marketing, and selling property.  Should housing take a steep nosedive in Thailand in the coming months and into the new year, especially with the vital foreign buyer market, I know where I will be pointing my finger.  

Leading to a possibly off topic comment, but out of curiosity, how would the Chinese pay for it, assuming, probably erroneously, they don't have the money here?

 

I ask as I have a potential buyer from China but we can find no way of sending 1m RMB to Thailand to change into THB. Any pointers anyone?

[JimTripper]

4 hours ago, kinyara said:

Possibly if you bought with a short-term investor outlook with borrowed money, but why would that matter if you bought your property in the last few years as your long-term retirement home. You've made your financial commitment, taken exchange rate uncertainty out of the equation for what would be your major expense if you hadn't bought, and you can get on with enjoying life in the comfort of your own home. 

 

 

Most people buy as much as they can afford. As inflation rises they get squeezed out of the place they purchased because their income dwindles and does not buy as much. If you rent you can easily move into a cheaper place if needed.

 

Does not sound like much but we probably have years of higher inflation ahead and it has a snowball effect.

 

It often manifests as people asking about money, family members needing loans, or wanting partners in property or business, etc. I'm hearing it already from relatives who bought 5 years ago.

Edited October 14, 2023 by JimTripper

[scubascuba3]

28 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Leading to a possibly off topic comment, but out of curiosity, how would the Chinese pay for it, assuming, probably erroneously, they don't have the money here?

 

I ask as I have a potential buyer from China but we can find no way of sending 1m RMB to Thailand to change into THB. Any pointers anyone?

They must be able to send it, my lawyer friend is always dealing with Chinese buying this that and the other, see a Lawyer

[vukovar77]

1 hour ago, BangkokAlan said:

I am not a real estate agent Iam an owner and landlord in Pattaya. nobody knows what will happen, but chances are they won't affect the property market with further taxes it will kill the industry. They said no one would come back after covid and that visa issues would stop foreigners but Thailand is still a favored country for retirement. Let's wait and see what the taxes are as none of us know.

Thailand is still too far for from pre-covid tourist numbers(40-45 million).Economy is recover very slow,maybe among the worst economies in South west asia.Too much dependent to China which is in big problems as well.Currency is very volatile .Debt rates with common people are very high,etc.Thailand is not favorite destination anymore for many expats.Many expats are here cos tax policy,but from 2024 everything will change for many of us.I decided not to invest more in Thailand.I have small condo bought before and I can stay there when I am here.I can not accept to pay double tax.I love this country and I have Thai wife and I will live here for maybe less than 6 months for a year and remitt not more than 40 K BHT per month(65 y.old).

[ericthai]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

Leading to a possibly off topic comment, but out of curiosity, how would the Chinese pay for it, assuming, probably erroneously, they don't have the money here?

 

I ask as I have a potential buyer from China but we can find no way of sending 1m RMB to Thailand to change into THB. Any pointers anyone?

PM me.  

[sungod]

13 hours ago, jacko45k said:

It's kind of how they do things here. 

Which is exactly why I dont panic.........

[newnative]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

Leading to a possibly off topic comment, but out of curiosity, how would the Chinese pay for it, assuming, probably erroneously, they don't have the money here?

 

I ask as I have a potential buyer from China but we can find no way of sending 1m RMB to Thailand to change into THB. Any pointers anyone?

      I don't know how the Chinese couple will be paying for their house.  There is also a single, female Chinese buyer who is also buying in the project.   Perhaps their funds are already here--but that doesn't answer how they got them here.