Cholestrerol levels..

[actonion]

My Thai Wife accompanied me  to  local private  Hospital to have my Cholesterol levels checked   as I do every 6 months..  while  we were there  she asked if she could have her  Cholesterol levels checked, and  all her  levels were found  to be very high, the Doctor advised her to control her diet,   & exercise,   "she did neither,  she  never excercises".......My Wife works at a company in Pattaya that twice a year  employs a local government Hospital to visit companies  with their Mobile Clinic,..... 6 weeks after she had accompanied me at the hospital she had her Cholesterol levels checked again at this Mobile Clinic, all her  levels were perfect... how  can this be possible,?  or  is some Lab  not testing correct..

[bbko]

Use a 3rd party lab to test her blood, no need to visit a doctor or hospital.  There's several laboratories around Pattaya.

 

https://ccsmedicallab.com/packages/

[sqwakvfr]

Without the following information really cannot offer an opinion.  I used to have my cholesterol and glucose levels checked once a year.

 

1.  Did you wife fast for 12 hours before the blood draw?

2.  What were her levels for the following:

 

    Total Cholesterol of below 200 is recommended but for many below 240 is fine.

     HDL(High Density Lipoprotein) Higher the better.  For women 50 or higher is better

     LDL (Low Density Lipoprotein) Lower the better.  For most 40 or below is better

     Triglycerides (Fat in the blood) Below 150 is better

 

 

[jacko45k]

Two differing approaches... one looking for customers, another wants you to think you are healthy and keep working hard!  Three measurements are what is needed to get an idea who is right or wrong.

[observer90210]

Watch out for the scale of the result as it is differently measured in many countries.

 

Obviously the secret lies in diet and of course exercise. But diet is  the keystone in the structure of low cholesterol.

Edited October 27, 2023 by observer90210

[Mike Lister]

Make certain the lab you used is accredited and the operators are certified, if they aren't, you may as well test the sample your self using your Dr Bob Blood Test Kit.

 

Also, fasting before a cholesterol blood test makes only very very small changes to the results, it's not critical.

[rwill]

3 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

Obviously the secret lies in diet and of course exercise. But diet is the keystone in the structure of low cholesterol.

Genetics has more to do with it than diet.  Most cholesterol is made in your liver.  Your cells need it to function properly.  Basically if you lower cholesterol in your diet your liver will produce more.

 

Why you shold no longer worry about Cholesterol in food.

 

You'll never worry about cholesterol after this

 

Your doctor is wrong about Cholesterol

 

 

[observer90210]

6 minutes ago, rwill said:

Genetics has more to do with it than diet.  Most cholesterol is made in your liver.  Your cells need it to function properly.  Basically if you lower cholesterol in your diet your liver will produce more.

 

Why you shold no longer worry about Cholesterol in food.

 

You'll never worry about cholesterol after this

 

Your doctor is wrong about Cholesterol

 

 

I'm sure you are right. But I cannot control or help genetic heritage.

 

On the other hand I can help what's in my plate and going down.

 

I used a simple technique when my previous cholesterol levels and other related levels were not to the norm.

 

Quit smoking and changed the diet and took homeopathy (Cholesternium in 9 CH)  due to the bad press of statin based anti-cholesterol medication.

 

It dropped significantly at the appropriate level at the next check after 6 months. As I am no doctor, cannot say which worked, but it worked for me and that's what really matters.

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, rwill said:

Genetics has more to do with it than diet.  Most cholesterol is made in your liver.  Your cells need it to function properly.  Basically if you lower cholesterol in your diet your liver will produce more.

 

Why you shold no longer worry about Cholesterol in food.

 

You'll never worry about cholesterol after this

 

Your doctor is wrong about Cholesterol

 

 

Take in as much cholesterol as you want, preferably good cholesterol, staying away from trans fats.  Dietary is so much better than what the liver produces.

 

I used to eat everything and anything, always had high cholesterol, mostly good.  Then started cutting back on fats & dairy, as 'they' recommend.  Bad move as apparently not enough, so liver was taking over.   Explains the high cholesterol of late, but bad cholesterol.

 

Now on a statin (controlling liver production of) and numbers completely reversed, back to high good cholesterol count.

 

You really have to wonder if they tell you to lower your fat intake so they can sell more statin.  I was healthier when I did listen to 'the science'.   MSM is here to sell you stuff you don't need or want.

[Luuk Chaai]

No such thing as good or bad cholesterol ..   full stop/period

 your body makes at least 75% of your cholsterol ..  balance is from diet

cholesterol is needed to make  hormones, cell membranes, bile, vitamin D   

LDL ..  Low Density Lipoprotein  is basically the transporter that brings the  "cholesterol to the cell

HDL .. High Density Lipoprotein is basically  "The return transporter back to the liver for reprocessing

 

Take the  "total cholesterol # and push it aside..   it's not what you think 

current standards by "todays science " ( not 1950/60' made up big pharma money making lies 

 Total should be  less thn  200

 LDL should be less than 100

HDL should be greater than 50

TriGL  should be less than 100 again all this means jack squat,, you must order and get an "ADVANCED LIPID PROFILE"

so you measure the  two different types of LDL  ( Large Bouyant .. or Small Dense/ Sd LDC-C )

Small Dense Sd LDL-C is the product that builds up in the artery and causes the problems ...  this level should be less than  26  

and that is the indicator of problems to come

What causes that..   "Inflamation"  ?   

Poor diet.  such as carbs / sugar/seed oils  ( Rice/noodles/bread/pasta/soda/canola,corn,sunflower,peanut oils  etc.

cut out the  poison for a month and go get your leves checked ( with the advanced profile )

 

[ignore it]

It's a miracle!

[wwest5829]

2 hours ago, observer90210 said:

I'm sure you are right. But I cannot control or help genetic heritage.

 

On the other hand I can help what's in my plate and going down.

 

I used a simple technique when my previous cholesterol levels and other related levels were not to the norm.

 

Quit smoking and changed the diet and took homeopathy (Cholesternium in 9 CH)  due to the bad press of statin based anti-cholesterol medication.

 

It dropped significantly at the appropriate level at the next check after 6 months. As I am no doctor, cannot say which worked, but it worked for me and that's what really matters.

Agree with your comment concerning genetics. All paternal line Uncles (& Father), Grandfather, Great grandfather dead of heart attacks. Me? 5 by-passes in 2005. By-pass scar tissue build up caused 2015 heart attack. On statin drugs. Oatmeal every other day dropped HDL to 71 on last check-up.

[Burma Bill]

I am an insulin dependent Type 2 diabetic who has a blood test every 6 months. These were my recent results (submitted for reference)

Expected values within brackets.

 

TOTAL CHOLESTEROL   156 mg/di   (140 - 200)

HDL CHOLESTEROL  38 mg/di   (30 - 85)

LDL CHOLESTEROL  87 mg/di  (<100)

TRIGLYCERIDES 159 mg/di  (40 - 165)

 

Tests performed at private clinic.

[BigStar]

 

Some good modern research argues that the LDL isn't so important. Many also recommend against statins. You might read Dr. Malcolm Kendrick's well-regarded

 

The Clot Thickens: The enduring mystery of heart disease

 

The thing to do is get the numbers into optimal ranges, which are:

 

 

including the HbA1c below 5.7. 

 

The TG/HDL ratio is probably the most important number here. If it's good, the other numbers tend to be good as well.

 

So you'll need to go to a good lab and get a comprehensive test. I've used Lifecare labs in Pattaya annually for many years. Their numbers correlate well with hospital numbers, including Bumrungrad's (from my one test there). 

 

Lots of info on how to improve or maintain optimal levels. Good body composition, low carb diet, moderately intense exercise, and intermittent fasting are common recommendations, and that's how I keep all my own numbers in range without any meds. 

 

 

 

[atpeace]

I watched a youtube vid recently where the youtuber showed the blood work process at Bangkok Pattaya.  Either the doctor was clueless or simply didn't care to explain the cholesterol data.  Is was hilarious and the youtuber thought he received value for his money.  As I have stated numerous times here, know your numbers and what they mean to you.  The numbers tell so much but if people don't learn a little about their implications they can be useless.

 

BTW, my last test total cholesterol was 220 which states high as in unhealthy on the report.  In reality Triclyceride (44), HDL (113) and LDL (99) are so good they are almost unbelievable.  I've had blood work done 20-30 times the last 15 years and rarely(possibly never) did the doctor  add any value and on many occasions provided bad information.  Doctors have saved my life twice but in most non- life  threatening situations I have found that I'm better at evaluating my health.

[hotandsticky]

11 minutes ago, atpeace said:

I watched a youtube vid recently where the youtuber showed the blood work process at Bangkok Pattaya.  Either the doctor was clueless or simply didn't care to explain the cholesterol data.  Is was hilarious and the youtuber thought he received value for his money.  As I have stated numerous times here, know your numbers and what they mean to you.  The numbers tell so much but if people don't learn a little about their implications they can be useless.

 

BTW, my last test total cholesterol was 220 which states high as in unhealthy on the report.  In reality Triclyceride (44), HDL (113) and LDL (99) are so good they are almost unbelievable.  I've had blood work done 20-30 times the last 15 years and rarely(possibly never) did the doctor  add any value and on many occasions provided bad information.  Doctors have saved my life twice but in most non- life  threatening situations I have found that I'm better at evaluating my health.

 

 

 

Total cholesterol is just maths:-

 

HDL + LDL + 20% triglycerides = total cholesterol

[kwilco]

Medical check ups are a bit of a scam. You aren't like a car, you don't need an MoT test - you need treatment based on your life history by a doctor that either knows you or has your full medical history.

 

THey really aren't that helpful to understanding your health - they just do a snapshot of that day.

There ARE however a good little earner for private hospitals - quick, cheap and convenient they are a good way of finding customers - however they are likely to tell you what THEY want to hear. E.G. if you have no insurance they won't recommend that treatment or course - only things they think you can pay for.

[atpeace]

8 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

 

Total cholesterol is just maths:-

 

HDL + LDL + 20% triglycerides = total cholesterol

Yes and is almost meaningless unless the three variable that make up the total number are evaluated individually.

[newnative]

43 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Medical check ups are a bit of a scam. You aren't like a car, you don't need an MoT test - you need treatment based on your life history by a doctor that either knows you or has your full medical history.

 

THey really aren't that helpful to understanding your health - they just do a snapshot of that day.

There ARE however a good little earner for private hospitals - quick, cheap and convenient they are a good way of finding customers - however they are likely to tell you what THEY want to hear. E.G. if you have no insurance they won't recommend that treatment or course - only things they think you can pay for.

       Well, I got an unpleasant surprise at my last medical checkup.  As part of the checkup, I could choose 1 of 2 optional tests.  Since I have elevated cholesterol, I chose to have a CAC test done. CAC stands for Coronary Artery Calcium scan.  In dozens of annual physicals, here and in the US, this test was never done as part of my annual physicals, even though, as I said, I have elevated cholesterol and have been taking a daily statin for years.

     My CAC test came back with a score of 433, extremely bad.  Anything over 400 apparently indicates high levels of plaque on the arteries, and serious risk of a heart attack.  Had I not had this test, I would have had no idea that I have this problem.  My blood pressure is normal, stress test was ok, EKG, ok, etc.  The doctor doubled my daily statin dosage and put me on a baby aspirin a day, also.  

     Had a second test several months later, result,432.  They also did a test that showed where the plaque buildup was on my arteries but it didn't give a blockage percentage.  All this was done at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital.  I plan to wait a few more months and get a second take on things from either Bumrungrad Hospital or Bangkok Heart Hospital.  My big question is whether I should have stents or not.  The Pattaya doctor seemed to think not at this point but I want to see what a Bangkok doctor will advise and weigh the two.  Stents seem to be recommended if the blockage is 70% or more, but some recent research also seemed to indicate that stent surgery was perhaps being done in too many marginal cases, because it is apparently a money-maker.  We'll see what happens. 

     All this is to illustrate that checkups can be a good thing, and can be helpful in pointing out areas of concern.  In my case, my medication was changed, which, hopefully, will be somewhat helpful, but I do wonder why I wasn't given this test years ago, when my elevated cholesterol was first diagnosed, or at least when I entered my 60s, to check the plaque buildup at that time.  Had it been done with each annual physical, I could at least see the progression of the problem, and an earlier change in medication may have been of benefit.  

     

     

[gargamon]

Diet and exercise can drop your cholesterol by 5%. Taking a statin reduces it up to 50%. When my Dr recommend I change my diet and do more exercise I laughed at him as I was in the gym 3 or 4 times a week and eating well at the time. I insisted he give me a statin. 25 years later hdl, ldl, etc all well withing recommended levels. Also a stress test in 2016 showed 0% blockage on either side of the heart. 

[BigStar]

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

Medical check ups are a bit of a scam.

 

No they aren't.

 

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

You aren't like a car, you don't need an MoT test

 

Since you aren't like a car, you'd best get regular medical checkups to ascertain the state of your health and, if needed, take steps to prevent any underlying conditions from becoming life-threatening. See @newnative 's post.

 

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

you need treatment based on your life history by a doctor that either knows you or has your full medical history.

 

 

And checkups promote discovery of your true medical condition, are evaluated as part of your history by a doctor, and may help determine your medical history, perhaps critically.

 

Your idea just leads to seeing a doc after a condition has become symptomatic, already done a lot of irreversible damage, and now needs expensive, perhaps lifelong care. Duh.

 

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

THey really aren't that helpful to understanding your health - they just do a snapshot of that day.

 

Having a snapshot of the day can be extremely helpful towards understanding your health. Some tests reflect past history as well, such as the important HbA1C.

 

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

There ARE however a good little earner for private hospitals - quick, cheap and convenient they are a good way of finding customers

 

But one doesn't need to go to a private hospital for a checkup. And private hospitals run yearly promotions. Phyathai has one running now, and I doubt it's a great earner. It is a way of finding new customers, but hardly the only one. And customers may choose treatment, if needed, at a different hospital. 

 

 

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

they are likely to tell you what THEY want to hear. E.G. if you have no insurance they won't recommend that treatment or course - only things they think you can pay for.

 

Utter nonsense. Besides, the lab reports clearly note any anomalies found.

 

Excellent example of what bad advice is offered on this forum. I recall that kwilco has insisted on disagreeing with, even berating, Sheryl and ended up with egg on his face.

 

 

[save the frogs]

12 hours ago, KhunLA said:

You really have to wonder if they tell you to lower your fat intake so they can sell more statin.  I was healthier when I did listen to 'the science'.   MSM is here to sell you stuff you don't need or want.

Yes, exactly. 

 

[NoDisplayName]

On 10/27/2023 at 8:43 AM, actonion said:

6 weeks after she had accompanied me at the hospital she had her Cholesterol levels checked again at this Mobile Clinic, all her  levels were perfect... how  can this be possible,?  or  is some Lab  not testing correct..

 

Cholesterol testing requires 12 hour fasting.

If she had breakfast, the results would be invalid.

[NoDisplayName]

12 hours ago, KhunLA said:

You really have to wonder if they tell you to lower your fat intake so they can sell more statin.  I was healthier when I did listen to 'the science'.   MSM is here to sell you stuff you don't need or want.

 

Don't think they're gonna get rich selling statins.

20mg daily will cost you 90 baht/month.

 

https://bangkokdrugstore.com/product/bestatin-20-mg-10s/

https://bangkokdrugstore.com/product/zimmex-20-mg-30s/

[save the frogs]

5 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Don't think they're gonna get rich selling statins.

https://www.axios.com/2019/10/30/lipitor-pfizer-drug-patent-sales-2019

 

Lipitor, the cholesterol-lowering medication that has become the gold standard of statins, continues to generate roughly $2 billion per year in sales for Pfizer,

[TimeMachine]

Bad not necessarily bad?

A while ago I was reading there is new research and testing done in US in regards to the bad type of cholesterol having two different parts to it , bad bad cholesterol and bad good cholesterol. Anyone followed up on that type of research? I asked Australian doctor about it a long time ago but he said it's only new and in America where testing is being done. 

[xtrnuno41]

Some people make cholesterol levels too high them selves, not with eating fat food. The body does.

Knew a guy, normal good posture, had high cholesterol, but he was working like a dog and not fat eating at all.

But on cholesterol reducers for it. His body made too much cholesterol.

I had high cholesterol and went on statines, I will never have them again.

Got all kind of problems with body, snacking them.

 

Red about curcuma and started that one. The specialist took blood sample and it was low, so I said it is working.

NO, he said, cant. OK so i knew it wouldnt work (placebo effect would be gone, as he told me it doesnt work), however kept on going with curcuma. And next time blood sample, the cholesterol was low again!

My body changed or curcuma does work? No clue.

I had to stop, as an old problem came up again, headache. Same as with statines but less hard.

Weird, there is something in curcuma, which brought back this complaint .

My headache disappeared again, stopping curcuma, again after having curcuma many, many months.

May be I should reduce amount, though it was just a spoon/day/every day.

 

The statines really gave me a blasting headache. My house doc said migraine, maybe correct but due to statines. I had to check it out myself, not taking the statines.

When for me the coin dropped, medicine and headache and tried, I could tell my doctor.

The headache came after longer time of statines (half a year), but had in meantime other weird things popping up.

The specialist gave me other medicines, but all statines ! Guess he was doing a list. The last statine was the worst, in 4 days time I had such a headache, I wanted to die.

You can also have statine in red yeast rice with lovastatine (?) in it, according to wiki. Also it contains a drug and therefor forbidden by FDA, monacolin K. However its een around since 300BC.

 

Once, I believe youtube, showed me, the oxidation of cholesterol is the problem. Of course if you reduce cholesterol, so also the amount of oxidation causing scaling in your veins will reduce.

But you should have a medicine, preventing cholesterol to oxidase! Maybe there are such medicines, but they start with reducing statines. Lots of doctors say now, statines arent a good help at all.

YES, I know they reduce cholesterol, but the other problems can be way bigger. As I red statines break down muscle, break down Q10 enzym in your body and can do lot more negative to your other systems of your body.

 

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, BigStar said:

 

No they aren't.

 

 

Since you aren't like a car, you'd best get regular medical checkups to ascertain the state of your health and, if needed, take steps to prevent any underlying conditions from becoming life-threatening. See @newnative 's post.

 

 

And checkups promote discovery of your true medical condition, are evaluated as part of your history by a doctor, and may help determine your medical history, perhaps critically.

 

Your idea just leads to seeing a doc after a condition has become symptomatic, already done a lot of irreversible damage, and now needs expensive, perhaps lifelong care. Duh.

 

 

Having a snapshot of the day can be extremely helpful towards understanding your health. Some tests reflect past history as well, such as the important HbA1C.

 

 

But one doesn't need to go to a private hospital for a checkup. And private hospitals run yearly promotions. Phyathai has one running now, and I doubt it's a great earner. It is a way of finding new customers, but hardly the only one. And customers may choose treatment, if needed, at a different hospital. 

 

 

 

Utter nonsense. Besides, the lab reports clearly note any anomalies found.

 

Excellent example of what bad advice is offered on this forum. I recall that kwilco has insisted on disagreeing with, even berating, Sheryl and ended up with egg on his face.

 

 

You're being very naive and in fact your ideas on why "check-ups might be useful are in fact the very reasons why they aren't.

I think it can be difficult for people to admit thy have been conned by their doctor or hospital all these years.

at several points you make 1.     Appeal to authority - to claim my argument is wrong because of claims of another “expert”.

Te fact is you are attacking the messenger not the message. In reality you are just displaying your own cognitive dissonance.

Edited October 28, 2023 by kwilco

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

https://www.axios.com/2019/10/30/lipitor-pfizer-drug-patent-sales-2019

 

Lipitor, the cholesterol-lowering medication that has become the gold standard of statins, continues to generate roughly $2 billion per year in sales for Pfizer,

 

So don't buy the fancy-pants name brand, and don't buy it at the overpriced hospital pharmacy.  Take one of the other statins, most commonly available here in Thailand I believe is Bestatin.

 

But if you absolutely, positively need Lipitor, buy the generic version for $10/month.

 

https://bangkokdrugstore.com/product/lipostat-atorvastatin-20-mg-box-of-30-tablets/

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, newnative said:

this test was never done as part of my annual physicals,

precisely nothing to do with the checkups sold by hospitals