As smog season returns, can Thailand avert another health crisis?

[snoop1130]

 

Millions of people in Thailand are dreading ‘smog season’, as air pollution levels begin to rise at the end of the rains.

 

Bangkok and other areas of the country have already suffered a significant drop in air quality, with concentrations of PM2.5 fine dust reaching potentially harmful levels in recent days. Thailand ranked 14th in the world for PM2.5 pollution on October 24, according to air-quality monitoring website IQAir.

 

 “The threat of PM2.5 is returning,” noted Sonthi Kotchawat, an independent academic and environmental expert.

 

Full story: Thai PBS 2023-10-27

 

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[tomazbodner]

Answer is really simple.

 

While potentially we could avoid another health crisis due to several times exceeded air pollution limits, we won't. Because people causing pollution don't care. And because those who could stop these from doing it don't care.

 

There are, in fact, reports, that this year will be even worse than last one, in which pollution lasted for 9 out of 12 months of the year, on most days exceeding air quality limits, not only WHO ones, but even Thai government limits, which are twice as high.

[observer90210]

Sensible tourists would postpone their visit to Thailand considering the health  hazards. Pollution does not just stick to one area on the short term.

 

Hazards that need to be tackled rapidly with faster and enlargened developpment of reliable public transport. 

 

Reliable public transport that could justify a ban of private vehicles in downtown areas as an option.  Obvious exceptions to those providing transport (taxi, car sharing, bolt, grab, deliveries etc.). 

 

Large metros in China ban private vehicles when the PM2.5 levels reach a red level.

 

If the Chinese can do it....

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by observer90210

[Mr Meeseeks]

No.

[khunjake]

One of the many reasons why we bailed out of BKK. It just gets worse each year and there is never a solution provided to the problem. It now spreads to Hua Hin and Pattaya as well. Living upcountry can be tough but at least we got clean air. 

[motdaeng]

6 minutes ago, khunjake said:

One of the many reasons why we bailed out of BKK. It just gets worse each year and there is never a solution provided to the problem. It now spreads to Hua Hin and Pattaya as well. Living upcountry can be tough but at least we got clean air. 

 

upcountry in thailand, not many places have clean air. so, which area are you talking about?

 

[NorthernRyland]

Don't ask questions you already know the answer to.

[NorthernRyland]

2 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

upcountry in thailand, not many places have clean air. so, which area are you talking about?

 

Air is good in rural Chiang Mai now and mountains but people are burning aggressively, every little pile of leaves or grass they can get their hands on. Farmers will do exactly what they've been doing for generations and just a matter of time until the forests get dry enough and they'll lit those up to. 

[Gknrd]

I believe I read Indonesia is having a record high because of the burning.

Thailand , Malaysia, and others may be in for a tough time of it.

I lived threw that a few years ago, if that is the case they could offer me 1 million Baht to visit and I would not come.

Let the Chinese and Russians cut their way threw the smoke while choking to death..

Edited October 27, 2023 by Gknrd

[lordgrinz]

Well, if we could put bets on it, I would bet everything I have on "No, not a chance in Hell".

[Sigmund]

There is a reason why Asians in general, who are smart and crafty, continue to wear their face masks in public. This is the right moment to use up those left over face masks of  the Covid years.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Sigmund

[DonniePeverley]

5 hours ago, motdaeng said:

 

upcountry in thailand, not many places have clean air. so, which area are you talking about?

 

 

Localised pollution from vehicles especially is horrific. You won't get that much UPCOUNTRY. 

[DonniePeverley]

3 minutes ago, Sigmund said:

There is a reason why Asians in general, who are smart and crafty, continue to wear their face masks in public. This is the right moment to use up those left over face masks of  the Covid years.

 

Not all are wearing it for pollution. If that was the case pre covid you would have seen a large percentage where it back then, but that wasn't the case.

 

You have people wearing masks cos their is still a worry about covid (alot of the Thai population is still immune), some even wear it as a sun filter, and hell some even wear it cos they haven't done their make that morning - and some DO worry about the pollution.

 

I'm thinking of getting a mask this week again. 

[Sigmund]

5 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

Not all are wearing it for pollution. If that was the case pre covid you would have seen a large percentage where it back then, but that wasn't the case.

 

You have people wearing masks cos their is still a worry about covid (alot of the Thai population is still immune), some even wear it as a sun filter, and hell some even wear it cos they haven't done their make that morning - and some DO worry about the pollution.

 

I'm thinking of getting a mask this week again. 

As there are not pollution alerts daily, many also have kept the N95 aside. Since there is in fact an alert now, could be a good idea to have that in mind along with any other motivation of use.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Sigmund

[spidermike007]

The government should offer incentives, for the farmers to switch crops. This is 2021. Rice and sugar worked in previous centuries. Now, they do not make any sense. Too labor intensive, too much degradation of the land, water, air, and resources. Let's get with the times. Let us move forward. 

 

Likely far more than that amount of people that are suffering right now. And the authorities do not seem to care, one iota. If they did, something would be done. Instead, only hollow promises. 

 

We will enforce the ban on burning. And it never gets enforced. No penalties, no nothing. 

 

We will do something about poorly maintained diesel vehicles. And nothing is ever done, because the cops are too lazy, and the highway patrol refuses to patrol the highway, and the special hotlines you set up, do not know anything about the program, or the laws. 

 

We care about the environment. Yeah right. Another bald faced lie. You care not, you see the air, you talk about the air, and you do nothing about the air. More empty words from the "do nothing men".

 

I know I am dreaming. It takes a progressive administration to do these kinds of things, and Sretta and his gang appear to be quite regressive. are as regressive as they come. The youth must eventually  prevail. 

 

They shut down the economy due to covid. But, burning cane is ok. Can't they see the effect it is having on the air? Do they care one iota? Don't the leaders live here too? Why are they MIA? Why don't the "do nothing guys" do something for a change? 

 

When the crop burning starts to kill the population, and lowers the quality of life for those of us who don't die, isn't it time to take action? We just don't need the sugar. Shut down this toxic, heinous industry. Lock up the farmers. Sieze their land. Do whatever it takes. 

 

[stoner]

insulting question.

[Mike Lister]

15 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

The government should offer incentives, for the farmers to switch crops. This is 2021. Rice and sugar worked in previous centuries. Now, they do not make any sense. Too labor intensive, too much degradation of the land, water, air, and resources. Let's get with the times. Let us move forward. 

 

Likely far more than that amount of people that are suffering right now. And the authorities do not seem to care, one iota. If they did, something would be done. Instead, only hollow promises. 

 

We will enforce the ban on burning. And it never gets enforced. No penalties, no nothing. 

 

We will do something about poorly maintained diesel vehicles. And nothing is ever done, because the cops are too lazy, and the highway patrol refuses to patrol the highway, and the special hotlines you set up, do not know anything about the program, or the laws. 

 

We care about the environment. Yeah right. Another bald faced lie. You care not, you see the air, you talk about the air, and you do nothing about the air. More empty words from the "do nothing men".

 

I know I am dreaming. It takes a progressive administration to do these kinds of things, and Sretta and his gang appear to be quite regressive. are as regressive as they come. The youth must eventually  prevail. 

 

They shut down the economy due to covid. But, burning cane is ok. Can't they see the effect it is having on the air? Do they care one iota? Don't the leaders live here too? Why are they MIA? Why don't the "do nothing guys" do something for a change? 

 

When the crop burning starts to kill the population, and lowers the quality of life for those of us who don't die, isn't it time to take action? We just don't need the sugar. Shut down this toxic, heinous industry. Lock up the farmers. Sieze their land. Do whatever it takes. 

 

"it never gets enforced. No penalties, no nothing." How do you know?

 

Last year the police and fire department were very very busy in Lampang province chasing burners, it seems to me that the problem is the sheer volume of them, along with the terrain. Everyone is Chiang Mai can see the firs on Doi Suthep mountain, getting to them and catching the burners is a completely different matter. There are no roads and no landing spots for helo's, in many cases the burners come from within the forest and remain there.

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

No.

Of course they can't. I believe a good proportion of the burning which causes the problems happens over the borders, of course Thailand cannot control that nor the breezes!

[hotchilli]

12 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Millions of people in Thailand are dreading ‘smog season’, as air pollution levels begin to rise at the end of the rains.

Nothing has been done to make real changes... so NO is the answer.

People will suffer this year as they have for decades.

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Nothing has been done to make real changes... so NO is the answer.

People will suffer this year as they have for decades.

We just drove from Central Thailand to the North, there are pockets of burning already started.

[Mike Lister]

55 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

"it never gets enforced. No penalties, no nothing." How do you know?

 

Last year the police and fire department were very very busy in Lampang province chasing burners, it seems to me that the problem is the sheer volume of them, along with the terrain. Everyone is Chiang Mai can see the firs on Doi Suthep mountain, getting to them and catching the burners is a completely different matter. There are no roads and no landing spots for helo's, in many cases the burners come from within the forest and remain there.

A tip for the confused amongst us: the hill tribes live in the forests.

[Tarteso]

Blah blah blah..

[rwill]

The solution is simple.  Pass a law making breathing illegal when PM2.5 levels are too high.

[Ombra]

12 hours ago, khunjake said:

One of the many reasons why we bailed out of BKK. It just gets worse each year and there is never a solution provided to the problem. It now spreads to Hua Hin and Pattaya as well. Living upcountry can be tough but at least we got clean air. 

Last year, the smog drifted more than 100 kms south of Hua Hin on many occasions. You could smell it as well as see it.

[observer90210]

6 hours ago, Sigmund said:

As there are not pollution alerts daily, many also have kept the N95 aside. Since there is in fact an alert now, could be a good idea to have that in mind along with any other motivation of use.

I am sure all the police on trafic duty in the middle of the roads will agree with you.

[nobodysfriend]

Thai politicians who promise every year to do something to reduce the pollution are a cause of pollution by themselves .

Their cheap talk is just hot air and polluting as well .

But , the real problem is the ones who still start the fires , even knowing that everybody suffers , they just do not care .

They have always done this and will not stop until seriously enforced to .

[Mike Lister]

Politicians tell us they will do something about the problem but then never do, this is because that once they come to understand the nature of the problem and its scale and scope, they realise the enormity and complexity of the task. The same is true of posters in this thread!

 

Take a drive down the road from Chiang Mai to Lampang and then onto Phitsanulok, the countryside is fabulous, mountains and jungle for as far as the eye can see. Then look closer at the small dwellings and communities that are tucked away, mostly hidden from view, enforcement and management by the authorities is almost impossible. It's an education thing, that's the only real solution.

[NorthernRyland]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Last year the police and fire department were very very busy in Lampang province chasing burners, it seems to me that the problem is the sheer volume of them, along with the terrain. Everyone is Chiang Mai can see the firs on Doi Suthep mountain, getting to them and catching the burners is a completely different matter. There are no roads and no landing spots for helo's, in many cases the burners come from within the forest and remain there.

It's a lost cause until they correct the culture of burning in Thailand. Maybe it's illegal for some small window but the rest of the year people burn anything they want and it's seen as acceptable. Sadly the government shows no interest in changing this part of the culture and the people are sheep and stay silent.

[NorthernRyland]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

A tip for the confused amongst us: the hill tribes live in the forests.

My most offensive opinion living in Thailand is that the Hill Tribe are largely a blight on the country. I've lived around them for years (Hmong and Lisu) and here are my observations:

 

1) Trash dumps found all along the mountain sides along the way towards their villages. They don't have trash disposal up there so they simply dump it in the woods and leave it for the rest of us to deal with. Thanks guys.

 

2) Burning trash and burning in general. Again, no way to deal with trash on the mountain tops so they burn it. 

 

3) Most pathetic villages in all of Thailand. Very ugly, no gardens, just mangled concrete and rubbish. They seriously have no class.

 

4) They forage in the mountains and are a major culprit for the burning of the forest as it makes it easier to get inside and find things. Anytime your around their villages you'll see motorbikes parked along the side of the road and trails in to the woods. Once they get deep back in the mountains on foot and start a fire at the base it will be impossible to stop them. Luckily for them they live on the top of the mountain so the smoke doesn't affect them very much. 

 

5) Reckless drivers, much worse than Thais. Very dangerous to other drivers. I see them wrecked on the side of the road often. Motor vehicles are too advanced for the these people, seriously they shouldn't be allowed to drive.

 

6) They're not even friendly like Thais and I often get stares and questionable  looks when I pass through on my bike. Even the young kids seem to be reclusive and mistrusting of outsiders which is not good.  It's often very unconformable being around them so I get in and out quickly, which is all the same because their villages are disgusting anyways.

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, NorthernRyland said:

My most offensive opinion living in Thailand is that the Hill Tribe are largely a blight on the country. I've lived around them for years (Hmong and Lisu) and here are my observations:

 

1) Trash dumps found all along the mountain sides along the way towards their villages. They don't have trash disposal up there so they simply dump it in the woods and leave it for the rest of us to deal with. Thanks guys.

 

2) Burning trash and burning in general. Again, no way to deal with trash on the mountain tops so they burn it. 

 

3) Most pathetic villages in all of Thailand. Very ugly, no gardens, just mangled concrete and rubbish. They seriously have no class.

 

4) They forage in the mountains and are a major culprit for the burning of the forest as it makes it easier to get inside and find things. Anytime your around their villages you'll see motorbikes parked along the side of the road and trails in to the woods. Once they get deep back in the mountains on foot and start a fire at the base it will be impossible to stop them. Luckily for them they live on the top of the mountain so the smoke doesn't affect them very much. 

 

5) Reckless drivers, much worse than Thais. Very dangerous to other drivers. I see them wrecked on the side of the road often. Motor vehicles are too advanced for the these people, seriously they shouldn't be allowed to drive.

 

6) They're not even friendly like Thais and I often get stares and questionable  looks when I pass through on my bike. Even the young kids seem to be reclusive and mistrusting of outsiders which is not good.  It's often very unconformable being around them so I get in and out quickly, which is all the same because their villages are disgusting anyways.

Given the history of the hill tribes I suspect they feel the same way about everyone else as you feel about them, the US, Laos, China, Vietnam etc etc. Nobody has seriously tried to get them to assimilate, instead they are tolerated as second class citizens, trying to change their culture is an uphill struggle at best. But for sure, a large part of the burning problem exists in that quarter.