Solar - General

[MangoKorat]

I was planning to install solar in my current Thai home but due to a lot of new houses being built around mine, I've decided to build a new house in a quieter location. It will not be a cheap build in 'Thai' terms as I will be installing quite a lot of 'Western' style items as per my existing house. Although it may be a while, I need to start planning now so I can work out a realistic budget. I'm not interested in payback as I intend installing solar for environmental reasons  + comfort as I would like to have 24/7 aircon without huge electric bills. I will, as per my existing home, be installing insulation, ceiling fans and Low E glazing to reduce the reliance on aircon.

 

So, I have a few questions to enable me to begin preparing a budget for the build.

 

1. Quality. 

 

It seems that the vast majority of solar equipment is Chinese, my immediate thoughts therefore turn to quality.  I'm ex motor trade and when aftermarket replacement car parts first started appearing on the market in the UK, they were amazingly cheap and correspondingly, almost always unbelievably rubbish.  However, over the years they have improved and nowadays some are just as good as European brands (a lot of which are actually made in Asia).

 

Which are the best quality brands, taking account of cost and reliability?

 

2. Type of System.

 

If I understand correctly, there are 2 types of system - battery and non battery.  If I understand correctly, most non battery systems are also connected to the local grid to enable 24/7 supply.  Battery systems can be either?

 

I would love to be completely self-sufficient but I'm not sure if that's entirely practical - a major breakdown could cause big problems and I also don't want to install system that makes life difficult/creates large expense for others after I'm gone. Then there's the cost of battery replacement - I'm not going to be around forever and that may be beyond the reach of those I leave behind. Batteries last for how long?

 

I also have reservations regarding the environmental impacts of battery production - with some horror stories coming out of Africa.

 

With non-battery, the system would be connected to the grid and switch over automatically?  As I understand it being legally connected to the grid entails permission from the electricity authority and use of an approved installer?  To me that = unnecessary cost and could reduce my ability to buy a system cheaply. Is it possible to install a system that runs independently of the grid (dosen't feed into it) but swaps over to it automatically when solar output drops?

 

As it will be a new build, the house will almost certainly be connected to the grid via a digital meter so a 'grey' system that winds the meter back will probably not be available.  I also have safety concerns about such a system feeding power into the system during a power cut when the engineers may be working on the network.

 

3. Power Requirements.

 

Based on my current lifestyle, I have an air source heat pump for constant hot water that uses 1.4kw.  Although that system has been great, I may not repeat it as I hadn't realised that I was heating up a 200L tank of water all the time.  However, replacing it with electric showers and an under-sink water heater would, although intermittently, significantly increase the amount of power required to heat water.

 

Other than lights which use very little, I have the usual household appliances (usual for a westerner) - fridge/freezer, kettle, washing machine, electric fans, TV, toaster, microwave, laptop etc. and I also have an electric oven.  I can imagine a scenario where I'm grilling bacon in the oven, heating other food in the microwave, boiling water in the kettle - then the girlfriend jumps in the shower.  I know that its unlikely for all those items to be turned on at the same time but it is possible.  Worse still, the washing machine could be on its 'heat' cycle at the same time.

 

What happens if you overload a system?  If its on grid will it flip over to the grid?  Will an off grid system just drop the power to each item or will it trip out?  I am mindful that some items can be damaged by low power supply.  Is it simply a matter of planning activities accordingly and getting used to that - i.e. washing machine only at night or when you're out/don't shower whilst cooking?

 

Those are my initial questons although I'm sure there will be more.

 

 

 

[Eff1n2ret]

There are members who can give you much more detailed answers to your questions, I can only pass on my experience of the system I installed at the beginning of 2020. This is a "basic" 3kw grid-linked system, which I paid a local company 120k Baht to install. They did all the applications to PEA. I was advised that PEA would charge an extra 9k baht to license it for supply to the grid, it is set up as "no export".

Over a 12-month period once some teething problems had been sorted out, I took readings at 9am and 5pm every day over 12 months of the PEA meter and the inverter app. The average meter consumption was around 2kwh, and the solar supplied 10.5kwh. Based on the last 3 months of app readings I reckoned that the panels were giving an extra 1.5+Kwh outside the 8-hour 9-5 period. 

We don't use much aircon during the day, so the main component of our electric bill is aircon in the bedrooms at night. Obviously there are periods when the solar production "goes to waste". I have a vague plan about changing to an EV to soak up some of that surplus, I'm not sure whether the expense of a battery would be worth it. The payback estimate quoted by the installation company was (from memory) 7 years, I think it will be at least 10 years.

One thing that hacks me off is that although the system is "no export", it still gets cut off if the grid goes down, although that isn't too often. 

[The Fugitive]

19 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

One thing that hacks me off is that although the system is "no export", it still gets cut off if the grid goes down, although that isn't too often.

Thanks for this! I knew that inverters are designed to shut off if the mains supply is interrupted in order to protect linesmen. I didn't know that still has to happen even if your system doesn't export to the grid.

[Crossy]

Have a read of this thread.

 

 

It's worth defining exactly what you want a system to do, there are many options.

 

 

[xtrnuno41]

A lot to be said about all, but first.

Environmental: the solar panels cant be recycled, when at end of life. Just red recently.

Wondering what are "they" going to do with them.

Windmills have the a same problem, their blades need to be changed regular. And now there are lots of them and will grow.

Blades, each, of eventually 145 meters long ! Now they are already on over 100 meters.

We will do the same with solar panels?

Red a company in Denmark has "solution", they created chemical mixture ! to eat the blades. However creating CO2.

And what is chemical mixture? Again oil from where we make it from.

However that could also work for panels?

Now wind blades are landfill, as shown on a pic.

And then Im not even talking about how to create those blades, transporting, fixing them to turbine and so on.

All on oil, so what is environmental?

 

Batteries Li, they can recycle.  Li is in limited amounts in the world. Winning Li by, for instance, injecting water in soil.

Red in South America, 20000 ltr/SEC of clean water injected into the soil, to win Li.

And then it has to be processed further. Getting the Li out of the water, however not only Li is in the water.

So it cost lots of energy to win Li, oil. But profitable and so in name of "green", we do.

So how environmental is everything? Li working as battery needs additional processing, so thus again oil.

All have to be made with fossil fuels, even the plastics are from oil.

Speaking environmental, all is a joke.

It seems we already tilted the position of the earth and melting ice of poles cant be reversed in short time anymore.

It is an accelerating reaction !

Some articles I red this week, truth, fake? All is possible these days.

 

Fact is, there are too many people on this planet in the system we created. See movie "10 billion" on youtube.

And then we were lucky to have many wars in the past, killing people.

Yha , I know it sounds odd, but cant make it otherwise. We must be very grateful all those people gave their lives, otherwise we would, could be now in way bigger problems already.

 

An estimated 8 million metric tons of plastic waste enters the ocean each year 

So environmental? It is a joke.

[Bandersnatch]

I designed my house to be off-grid powered by solar. I have a grid connection but it has been switched off at the breaker for over a year now. 
 

I installed solar thermal for hot water.

 

You mentioned concern about battery sourcing, I would suggest Lithium Iron Phosphate, which is what I used for home storage.

 

I use excess solar produced in the middle of the day to charge my EV and electric scooter. I have ordered a second EV with an 82kWh LFP battery and V2L (bi-directional charging) which I plan to further support the house to be off-grid during the monsoon season. (Video will be uploaded to my channel soon)

 

This is my build blog with a link to my YouTube channel 

https://ecohousethailand.com/

[Bandersnatch]

18 minutes ago, xtrnuno41 said:

solar panels cant be recycled

 

 

[KhunLA]

Here's some thoughts on 'after' the installation, as our system was installed.  Definitely less expensive if you can DIY.   We sized the system to meet our usage from PEA, at rental & past house build, knowing the expected minimum needed, and luckily got that low/high usage, just about right.  

 

Handles being abusive with the AC and even plenty of excess for charging the EVs.  We're still connected, but basically 'off grid', 24/7.  Conx fee is still about 27 baht a month, if discounted, and 42 ish if full fee.

 

We've been very conservation, using 350kWh a month, first couple months, and abused it up to 1000+kWh a month.  Total crap days, only generating 10kWh to sunny and producing 50kWh for the day.  But always enough, as if not producing much, means overcast & rainy, so don't need the ACs.

 

[MangoKorat]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

It's worth defining exactly what you want a system to do, there are many options.

 

Thanks for that, I've skim read it and will read in detail later but for now, can I ask..................

 

If whatever system I go for, is not exporting to the grid, do I need to get the PEA's approval?

 

One thing I hadn't thought of throughout my planning is that my one of my basic reasons for installing a system is challenged.

 

My first thoughts were that I wanted aircon available all day - I don't suffer the heat well but I don't want huge electric bills. Before anyone tells me I'll get used to the heat, I won't. I've lived in Thailand before and never made any kind of adjustment - I just sweated all day.

 

So in my head of course, the solar would take care of that during the day and switch to the grid at night.  What I hadn't taken account of is that if the batteries have been discharged the previous day, there's not going to be enough in them to power the aircon first thing next morning and I'm usually up around 6am.  Its  usually quite cool at that time but in March/April the heat can be unbearable by 9am. Pre Covid, can't remember the exact year but I think it was 2019, I recorded 44 degrees at 10am in the shade on my balcony! Luckily I was heading back to the UK the next day.

 

Environmental concerns, made worse by my desire for 24/7 aircon my other major reason for wanting to install solar.  There's normally plenty of sun available in Thailand so it makes sense to use it.

 

When I say 24/7 aircon, that's mainly a figure of speech.  I rarely need aircon at night as having it on during the day, on low in the bedrooms, usually cools the house sufficiently and a ceiling fan keeps the air moving.

 

 

 

[MangoKorat]

1 hour ago, xtrnuno41 said:

A lot to be said about all, but first.

Environmental: the solar panels cant be recycled, when at end of life. Just red recently.

Wondering what are "they" going to do with them.

Windmills have the a same problem, their blades need to be changed regular. And now there are lots of them and will grow.

Blades, each, of eventually 145 meters long ! Now they are already on over 100 meters.

We will do the same with solar panels?

Red a company in Denmark has "solution", they created chemical mixture ! to eat the blades. However creating CO2.

And what is chemical mixture? Again oil from where we make it from.

However that could also work for panels?

Now wind blades are landfill, as shown on a pic.

And then Im not even talking about how to create those blades, transporting, fixing them to turbine and so on.

All on oil, so what is environmental?

 

Batteries Li, they can recycle.  Li is in limited amounts in the world. Winning Li by, for instance, injecting water in soil.

Red in South America, 20000 ltr/SEC of clean water injected into the soil, to win Li.

And then it has to be processed further. Getting the Li out of the water, however not only Li is in the water.

So it cost lots of energy to win Li, oil. But profitable and so in name of "green", we do.

So how environmental is everything? Li working as battery needs additional processing, so thus again oil.

All have to be made with fossil fuels, even the plastics are from oil.

Speaking environmental, all is a joke.

It seems we already tilted the position of the earth and melting ice of poles cant be reversed in short time anymore.

It is an accelerating reaction !

Some articles I red this week, truth, fake? All is possible these days.

 

Fact is, there are too many people on this planet in the system we created. See movie "10 billion" on youtube.

And then we were lucky to have many wars in the past, killing people.

Yha , I know it sounds odd, but cant make it otherwise. We must be very grateful all those people gave their lives, otherwise we would, could be now in way bigger problems already.

 

An estimated 8 million metric tons of plastic waste enters the ocean each year 

So environmental? It is a joke.

Whilst I agree with many of your thoughts, I am trying to do my bit which is why I want solar power in the first place.  Its also why I have raised my concerns over battery production.

 

If you want to start a thread about what man has done to the earth, would you be kind enough to do so?  It can be difficult enough to keep things on topic on these threads.

 

[MangoKorat]

53 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Definitely less expensive if you can DIY

I intend doing a lot of the work on the new house myself.

[xtrnuno41]

As you were concerned about environment and all associated things, I opened up about it and wrote. But ok when to stop, maybe too enthusiastic writing.

Of course for your solar system you need to know, how much power you will use. How much Watt, how many panels, how many batteries.

You can use ATS (non-grid), to switch back to grid automatic. There is no light in evening, night.

So or battery system and/or with still ATS. You dont put battery system on grid, you waste your own power.

The warm water heater is only working when measured value of temp is below setpoint. Then it will use power.

However you can use solar heater. Like this: 

Also 2-300 ltr's .You dont need extra shower heaters on electricity

If your AC is running a lot, you have a lot of waste heat at the outside unit. It is waste, you could put a heat ex-changer "right in front" of it heating up water going to an isolated tank. Could be a radiator of a car/motor with your own attached isolated pipes. Or pre heating for solar heater?!

Of course the air flow out of AC should not really be effected. So maybe with extra fan on exchanger to keep good air flow.

Of course you need to clean once in a while.

After all  what is temp blowing out?! 50-60 degrees?! But maybe then you are busy making all work. Hobby? 

Weird there is no such system, or are there?

Working temperature of solar panels is 25 degrees, with every degree above, efficiency drops with 0.4 %.

In Thailand the panels will get as hot as 60 degrees, meaning a loss of 14 %. Keeping them cool is important, enough cooling space. On a slope so also rainwater can wash off with collected dirt.

Or you can do as Bandersnatch, but cost some.

 

[MangoKorat]

2 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

As you were concerned about environment and all associated things, I opened up about it and wrote. But ok when to stop, maybe too enthusiastic writing.

Of course for your solar system you need to know, how much power you will use. How much Watt, how many panels, how many batteries.

You can use ATS (non-grid), to switch back to grid automatic. There is no light in evening, night.

So or battery system and/or with still ATS. You dont put battery system on grid, you waste your own power.

The warm water heater is only working when measured value of temp is below setpoint. Then it will use power.

However you can use solar heater. Like this: 

Also 2-300 ltr's .You dont need extra shower heaters on electricity

If your AC is running a lot, you have a lot of waste heat at the outside unit. It is waste, you could put a heat ex-changer "right in front" of it heating up water going to an isolated tank. Could be a radiator of a car/motor with your own attached isolated pipes. Or pre heating for solar heater?!

Of course the air flow out of AC should not really be effected. So maybe with extra fan on exchanger to keep good air flow.

Of course you need to clean once in a while.

After all  what is temp blowing out?! 50-60 degrees?! But maybe then you are busy making all work. Hobby? 

Weird there is no such system, or are there?

Working temperature of solar panels is 25 degrees, with every degree above, efficiency drops with 0.4 %.

In Thailand the panels will get as hot as 60 degrees, meaning a loss of 14 %. Keeping them cool is important, enough cooling space. On a slope so also rainwater can wash off with collected dirt.

Or you can do as Bandersnatch, but cost some.

 

Unless I'm really missing something, what is the point of all the energy saving measures you mention if I'm running on solar? How, for example, is the hot air produced by the aircon units a waste?

 

That's been the main driver for me from the start - that I could enjoy basically free aircon by installing solar without an impact on the environment. If I can also utilise that system to provide the majority of the other electricity I use, that would be great, however there are other considerations that need to be taken into account.

 

Some environmental concerns are extremely difficult to measure and there are many differing viewpoints on them.  For example, I once spent almost a whole day weighing up the real environmental benefits of an electric car.  After reading many opposing (scientific) views I was very confused but concluded that they are not the panacea that some claim they are.  It appears that the total environmental benefit of electric cars can take far longer than that which is promoted. A great many things must be taken into account before proclaiming that they are our saviour.  For example, whilst one benefit is that air polution in cities will be greatly reduced, huge amounts of chemicals are currently being injected into the hillsides of the rain forrests of The Congo in order to mine the raw materials used in EV battery production.

 

Of course, our governments and the car companies don't show that, nor are the millions of animal/insects that are being displaced by that mining illustrated on their glossy brochures. To a degree, many of the environmental measures that are currently being taken to combat climate change, appear to be simply shifting the damage from one continent to another. I'm not at all sure that mankind has learned anything from the mistakes of the last 270 years or so - other than to move the problem out of sight.

 

Given the years I have left, I have decided that my current position on vehicles is the best for both myself and the planet.  I run my vehicles for many years and repair them rather than replace them.  I keep my journeys to the minimum and I run vehicles with small to medium sized engines. The exception (in a small way) is my motorbike which is a 650cc - that's down from my last one which was 900cc - I want to at least have a little fun.

 

Then there's the claims regarding recycling.  Batteries may be able to be recycled but what % of them, and will the cost of recycling mean that they are not recycled at all? Cars contain a hell of a lot of plastics these days and regulations state that those plastics must be able to be recycled.  Will they be?  A lot of local authorities in the UK paid companies in Turkey to take away their plastic waste and recycle it.  It was later found to be being dumped in Turkish landfills.

 

I could go on and on but that takes us way to far down the enviromental route that I was trying to avoid. I have concluded that moving to solar generated electricity, using a system that incorporates the minimum of equipment and equipment that is long lasting - is a no brainer compared to power stations belching out smoke etc.  Solar farms are not the answer either - the world is going to face a food shortage before long and we need all the agricultural land possible to provide that food.  In my opinion, the correct place for solar energy systems is on the roofs of existing buildings or possibly in deserts that do little else.

 

That's about all I have to say on environmental matters, I'm confident that I will significantly reduce my own environmental impact by going over to solar and in doing so, make my life more comfortable - all I have to decide on is the battery issue.  I'm completely on the fence on that one - there are a lot of things to take account of and I'm still in the planning stage.

 

 

[TimeMachine]

There are quite a few negatives that kill the good in solar. I still stand by my recommendation of forgetting about solar in Thailand because of the lack of support for it by government, the expensive and need of replacement of battery , reliability of equipment, unfairness of elec authority pricing. It's just a big gamble. I would put the money in energy saving stuff like extra insulation, double glazing, efficient electronics. I would install just the most basic backup off grid 2 panel 200ah lead acid battery system to run a fan and light for when the power goes out if that's important. The days of the 10 amp AC are gone anyway. Unfortunately, governments prefer supporting selling electricity. Just go with the flow.

 

[KhunLA]

6 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

There are quite a few negatives that kill the good in solar. I still stand by my recommendation of forgetting about solar in Thailand because of the lack of support for it by government, the expensive and need of replacement of battery , reliability of equipment, unfairness of elec authority pricing. It's just a big gamble. I would put the money in energy saving stuff like extra insulation, double glazing, efficient electronics. I would install just the most basic backup off grid 2 panel 200ah lead acid battery system to run a fan and light for when the power goes out if that's important. The days of the 10 amp AC are gone anyway. Unfortunately, governments prefer supporting selling electricity. Just go with the flow.

And yet, I think most of us that actually have solar, don't see any 'added' negatives, and only positives with huge saving in the future after ROI.

[patman30]

one thing that would be good to know is your budget?

i have OFF GRID solar, 3 x Growatt 5KW inverters with 60KW felicity lithium batteries (felicity now have an office in BKK)
as you are building new i highly suggest these aircons FTKZ* from daikin (you can find cheaper online)
these aircons have the highest seer number i could find (seer = efficiency)
if you want off grid, imo more storage is better than more panels and ideally you should aim for 4-5x storage
if using lithium go as big as you can afford really as lithium like to stay between 20-80% for longevity
as you are concerned about ongoing costs after you are gone (and as you plan to do work yourself)
i suggest you look at NiFe batteries, they cost about 2-3x as much as lithium however they will last 50-80 years or more so cheaper in long run
i plan to replace my lithium with NiFe batteries, NiFe batts are quite big so you need to think of this in your house design
1200ah are best value, for a 48V system you would need 40 cells for a 48v 1200ah battery as NiFe come in 1.2v
15KW should likely be fine for most people, i run allsorts on mine, washing machine, fridge 2 chest freezers, electric hob and a bunch of computers and multiple aircons 24/7
be sure not to have more panels than the inverter can handle, this is done often here as you usually only get 70-80% on a good day, some people add a few extra panels, but you are risking blowing the inverter on a perfect day.
on demand water heaters are the way to go if using off grid solar, and if water is too hot to touch then you are heating it too much
also for when you are gone, you could always buy some additional inverters and panels and store them for future use,
you shouldn't ever need new NiFe Batteries

[patman30]

7 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

I would install just the most basic backup off grid 2 panel 200ah lead acid battery system to run a fan and light for when the power goes out

some of us need more than just a fan and a light
i have off grid solar as i need power 24/7 and i do not want a smart meter near me.
i can not depend on an unreliable power supply from the grid.

for a fan and light you do not even need a solar panel, just the battery or a UPS which you could keep charged from grid

[patman30]

one other thing i have mentioned in another thread
depending on your daytime usage, it maybe beneficial to have a few panels angled west
this would be for off grid mostly
but what this will do is give you more sun at the end of the day so you start discharging your battery later
meaning the battery is needed for less time
you cannot really know this beforehand though,
but as you are doing work yourself it may be wise to plan for this so you could adjust a few panels if desired

[Crossy]

A few thoughts: -

 

As you are DIYing you will never get approval to export to the grid. This being the case I'd go for a hybrid inverter which can run in parallel and also do grid-sync.

• Do perform an energy-audit.
• Panels are relatively cheap, so don't skimp. 
• Batteries are not cheap, but can be easily expanded if you need more run time.
• Aim at having your panels on a car-port or ground mount if you have space unless you design your home with a flat and accessible roof area (see @Bandersnatch threads and home photos).

[TimeMachine]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

And yet, I think most of us that actually have solar, don't see any 'added' negatives, and only positives with huge saving in the future after ROI.

I don't want to put the kodbosch on your system but the risk of early failure of batteries is still a possibility. Let us know in 10 years the cost of another lot of batteries and how the actual sums have turned out. You can do the math to make it look good. You can do the math to make it look bad. Time will tell. I am guessing that prices are coming down slowly and my feeling changes slightly over time and hope it becomes more of an easier decision to do solar. If you are not savvy on all the details be wary to do solar. Talk to people that have had it for awhile. I don't deny some would end up lucky.

[TimeMachine]

9 minutes ago, Crossy said:

As you are DIYing you will never get approval to export to the grid.

Im guessing some are hiding their solar as an off grid with the old spinning disk. I wouldn't dare do such a thing. If I recall correctly , a person has stated after being found out they simply put in a smart meter. Hello! Is that person around? Can u confirm. Not enough feedback yet for me to know how aggressive the rules are, especially out in the sticks 

 

 

 

[Crossy]

@Thaifish despite having an application in for an export meter got caught spinning his existing disc-meter backwards. Got a no-reverse meter.

 

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

I don't want to put the kodbosch on your system but the risk of early failure of batteries is still a possibility. Let us know in 10 years the cost of another lot of batteries and how the actual sums have turned out. You can do the math to make it look good. You can do the math to make it look bad. Time will tell. I am guessing that prices are coming down slowly and my feeling changes slightly over time and hope it becomes more of an easier decision to do solar. If you are not savvy on all the details be wary to do solar. Talk to people that have had it for awhile. I don't deny some would end up lucky.

ROI will be much quicker than 10 yrs, with no power cuts, steady current, protecting our electronics.  I actually expect 10-20 trouble free out of PV & batteries, and hopefully inverter, well maybe 10 yrs on inverter.   All will be cheaper in future to replace.

[sirineou]

I see these systems advertised , and I am wondering if they are using law quality components to achieve the low price. So my question is, what should I me looking at.

-I have read that there are new solar panels with increased efficiency. How do I know I am not getting dated solar cell panel technology?

-How do you know you are getting a quality inverter?

-Is the inverter seized for a particular usage, and should you be looking for an oversized one to cover increases if future demand?

-I see these batteries for sale at Do home, They say "Hybrid" . I know what hybrid means but hoe does that relate to those batteries?

 - what kind of battery should I be looking for. 

I have been thinking for our farm house that does not so far have electric , Electric is not too far away but so far PEA wants close to 300k bht to bring it to us and my thinking is , if I would pay 300k I might as well pay 300k for sollar, 

 

[Ben Zioner]

7 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

There are quite a few negatives that kill the good in solar. I still stand by my recommendation of forgetting about solar in Thailand because of the lack of support for it by government, the expensive and need of replacement of battery , reliability of equipment, unfairness of elec authority pricing. It's just a big gamble. I would put the money in energy saving stuff like extra insulation, double glazing, efficient electronics. I would install just the most basic backup off grid 2 panel 200ah lead acid battery system to run a fan and light for when the power goes out if that's important. The days of the 10 amp AC are gone anyway. Unfortunately, governments prefer supporting selling electricity. Just go with the flow.

 

Agree totally, I have/had one foot in the market for Solar, but after a visit by PEA, who offered an "on grid" solution I decided to stay  sitting on the fence for  the time being. PEA offered 2.4 Baht per KWh produced, which amounted to some ridiculous payback duration, while my requirements where cost savings + backup power ("on grid hybrid" based on @Crossy's excellent paper).

 

So it's gonna be another  few years, hopefully before I die. Since I like simple measures to make decisions I'll look for Solar again once an 80 KWk/day "Off grid" system will have a pay  back of about 5 years. (This is a rough measure based on the cost of  Panels/Batteries and PEA's pricing). Then I may refine it by putting an EV into the equation, or not. A 5 years payback is only a ballpark figure, as I have no idea about the maintenance costs, repairs, replacements, and cleaning).

 

In the meantime, I might just buy a genset.

[Pink7]

18 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

I designed my house to be off-grid powered by solar. I have a grid connection but it has been switched off at the breaker for over a year now. 
 

 

Im on 30 days off grid since switched over, but now its raining and Im on 66% battery so lets see if I can "survive" this day and next  before need to switch over to grid. I use ATS and expect to do the switching manually. I will save some battery for emergency if ever on grid and grid down in the bad weather. How much battery capacity you have? How many rainy days can you "survive" ?

 

Pink

[patman30]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

All will be cheaper in future to replace.

there is no guarantee of this
and with inflation it will be the opposite imo
hence, why i always advise NiFe batteries
they may be more upfront now, but you are covered for 50 years at least
i do also plan to buy and store panels and inverters
for inverters my concern is needing to replace only 1 and company has moved on to newer incompatible models

[patman30]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

I see these systems advertised , and I am wondering if they are using law quality components to achieve the low price. So my question is, what should I me looking at.

-I have read that there are new solar panels with increased efficiency. How do I know I am not getting dated solar cell panel technology?

-How do you know you are getting a quality inverter?

-Is the inverter seized for a particular usage, and should you be looking for an oversized one to cover increases if future demand?

-I see these batteries for sale at Do home, They say "Hybrid" . I know what hybrid means but hoe does that relate to those batteries?

 - what kind of battery should I be looking for. 

I have been thinking for our farm house that does not so far have electric , Electric is not too far away but so far PEA wants close to 300k bht to bring it to us and my thinking is , if I would pay 300k I might as well pay 300k for sollar, 

 

imo don't buy batteries or inverters that are not branded, you at least want a company to put their name on it
300k can get you a decent system, depending on how much you use
yes inverters are sized, check the specs for how many panels you can use with inverter, volts and amps (don't assume based on watts)
 

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, Pink7 said:

 

Im on 30 days off grid since switched over, but now its raining and Im on 66% battery so lets see if I can "survive" this day and next  before need to switch over to grid. I use ATS and expect to do the switching manually. I will save some battery for emergency if ever on grid and grid down in the bad weather. How much battery capacity you have? How many rainy days can you "survive" ?

 

Pink

 

There is rain and there is rain! The last time I switched on PEA was in September 2022 during Super Typhoon Nuri
 

Here is the video of the Event - I have 4x9kWh LFP batteries by the way.

 

 

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

I have been thinking for our farm house that does not so far have electric , Electric is not too far away but so far PEA wants close to 300k bht to bring it to us and my thinking is , if I would pay 300k I might as well pay 300k for solar, 

Definitely as that's no brainer.