My EV can power my home

[TorquayFan]

Bandersnatch thanks for the excellent videos and you are obviously knowledgeable on the subject.

 

As you might remember (?) I'm not an EV Fan but I can see the ups of it.

 

For me, specifically on your set up - that would worry me. I am not an Expert BUT my instincts would be against overworking the batteries in this way and will that speed up the ageing process? Have you yet had to replace a battery in your EV's. I wonder what second-hand values might be when the vehicles get to 4/5 years old.

 

But Good Luck - looks great. ATB

[Bandersnatch]

22 minutes ago, TorquayFan said:

my instincts would be against overworking the batteries in this way and will that speed up the ageing process?

 

Firstly can I ask did you actually watch the videos? Because it sounds to me that you didn't as you would have seen the amount of power being drawn from the car. 

 

We need to put the emotive phrase "overworking" into context.

 

My EV's 82.5kWh battery is designed to propel a 2 tonne vehicle plus occupants 600km per charge. By comparison my house load at night is 500W or 0.5kWh per hour. So the car could power my house at night for 165 hours of night-time usage.

 

In the video  - that you didn't watch - I said that without using V2L I have run my house and one EV for over a year without drawing any power from the grid. So if in the future I have the need of a little extra help from my EV it is not going to be "overworking the batteries"

 

 

The rest of your questions are off-topic and are being ignored.

 

 

[connda]

Works until so many EV show up that the power grid no longer is capable of functioning.  Then it's rationing.  Perhaps only allowed to drive alternate days.  There isn't a country on Earth that can sustain its entire population driving EV, especially if the country's leadership banned coal, gas, and nuclear. 

I can project this out three decades and I know where it ends.

[Lee65]

2 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

As OP let me remind everyone that this is a discussion about bi-directional charging.

 

Using an EV as a battery on wheels to power your home.

 

My EV has 82.5kWh of useable battery capacity compared to a Tesla Powerwall having only 13.5kWh.

 

This is game changing as you can charge your car up during the day when it’s sunny and draw a few hundred Watts to help run the house at night, while still have enough power drive your car in the morning.

 

1)  At what rate does your car charge "during the day when it's sunny"?  (i.e. sunny hours per % charge?)

 

2)  How is this "a game changer"?  Why not just use your Powerwall (or similar house battery) to "draw a few hundred watts" at night?

 

3)  Is it cost-efficient to use your battery cycles on your expensive vehicle vs. using a Powerwall designed specifically for the task?

 

Edit:

 

Sorry Bandersnatch, I read your reply late to another post where you addressed the battery lifecycle impact of using your car as a backup battery.

 

Basically, your new bi-directional capable car can serve as a large backup battery.  I get it.  But so could an array of probably much cheaper house batteries designed for the job.

 

2nd Edit:

 

Hang on!  I've just realized why you may have called this car bi-directionality a game changer!  It allows you to obtain energy from an outside source (vehicle charging station, for example) and bring it back to power your house (should it become necessary)!

 

OK I get it!  

Edited November 12, 2023 by Lee65

[Bandersnatch]

19 minutes ago, connda said:

Works until so many EV show up that the power grid no longer is capable of functioning.  Then it's rationing.  Perhaps only allowed to drive alternate days.  There isn't a country on Earth that can sustain its entire population driving EV, especially if the country's leadership banned coal, gas, and nuclear. 

I can project this out three decades and I know where it ends.

 

 

Commenting on a discussion without watching the videos that the discussion is based on!

 

Now go and watch the videos I posted in the opening post and you will see why what you posted is so wrong

[Bandersnatch]

17 minutes ago, Lee65 said:

1)  At what rate does your car charge "during the day when it's sunny"?  (i.e. sunny hours per % charge?)

 

7kW or 7kWh per hour. The car can travel 7km/kWh. So one hour of home charging adds 49km of range.

This research on driving in Thailand states that the average km driven per year for a saloon in the provinces of Thailand is 14,071 km/yr or 38.5km per day. I can add this much range in 47 minutes of charging.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Average-Travel-Distance-of-Vehicles-3_tbl2_238658930#:~:text=Average vehicle kilometer traveling of,%2Fday respectively [18] .

 

29 minutes ago, Lee65 said:

2)  How is this "a game changer"?  Why not just use your Powerwall (or similar house battery) to "draw a few hundred watts" at night?

 

You obviously don't have solar or you wouldn't have asked such a question.

 

A tesla powerwall has only 13.5kWh of capacity compared to my car which has 82.5kWh. I actually have home batteries  - which you have known if you had watched the videos. A tesla powerwall needs charging every day but my car does not and can power my house for several days. 

 

35 minutes ago, Lee65 said:

 

3)  Is it cost-efficient to use your battery cycles on your expensive vehicle vs. using a Powerwall designed specifically for the task?

 

My EV is primarily a car,  the fact it can also act as home battery storage is effectively a no cost benefit.

 

Did you read my replies to other posts here?

 

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

My EV's 82.5kWh battery is designed to propel a 2 tonne vehicle plus occupants 600km per charge. By comparison my house load at night is 500W or 0.5kWh per hour. So the car could power my house at night for 165 hours of night-time usage.

 

In the video  - that you didn't watch - I said that without using V2L I have run my house and one EV for over a year without drawing any power from the grid. So if in the future I have the need of a little extra help from my EV it is not going to be "overworking the batteries"

 

[ChaiyaTH]

I'll just buy a real car for that money then.

[Bandersnatch]

2 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

I'll just buy a real car for that money then.

 

How will the "real car" power your home?

[ChaiyaTH]

Just now, Bandersnatch said:

 

How will the "real car" power your home?

One must lost his brains to want and power a home with a car. That is absolute stupidity.

[Lee65]

9 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Did you read my replies to other posts here?

 

 

Yes, I have and also had watched both of your very good videos.

 

Please see my twice edited comment above and accept my apologies for those late edits.

[Bandersnatch]

16 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

One must lost his brains to want and power a home with a car. That is absolute stupidity.

 

Let’s look at “absolute stupidity”
 

Joining a discussion about powering a home from a car.

 

Not watching the videos in the opening post so has no idea what the discussion is about.

 

Replies with a random post 

 

Discovering he is a discussion about powering a home from a car

 

“Lost his brains” 

 

 

 

[TorquayFan]

Snatch your replies are 'testy' (to say the least) and defensive.

 

Yes I watched your videos and well done - I admit to not understanding much about electrics and I'm not alone there.

 

Good luck with your project.

[UWEB]

I have a 10 kw on Grid PV Solar System, can I use this V2L System as well or does it require installed Batteries for Solar System?

[UWEB]

double

Edited November 12, 2023 by UWEB

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, UWEB said:

I have a 10 kw on Grid PV Solar System, can I use this V2L System as well or does it require installed Batteries for Solar System?

It just needs a transfer switch to switch between V2L and grid as you need.
 

If you can get your night-time load under a couple of kW then you might not need grid power at all. 

In Thailand a 10kW solar system will produce excess power in the middle of the day, which you can dump into car and then use at night. 
 

 

You can pick up an excellent MG4 with V2L for under ฿800k

 

 

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

4 hours ago, TorquayFan said:

Snatch your replies are 'testy' (to say the least) and defensive

 

As OP I have the right to rigorously defend my discussion from being hijacked by ultracrepidarians. 

 

This system has the potential to save forum members a great deal of money. 

 

It's a shame when that message is being drowned out by those with no interest and even less understanding in it. 

 

 

[Lee65]

deleted my own post as off-topic   

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Lee65

[Bandersnatch]

11 minutes ago, Lee65 said:

Case in point: the overwhelming majority of EVs today contain a type of battery that can and does spontaneously combust

You are not correct and you are off-topic.
 

My home battery, my EV battery, the battery in the MG 4 I suggested to UWEB above, all BYDs, New Fords and MGs, Teslas most popular models: Model 3 and Y RWD all have LiFePO4 cathodes that don’t suffer from thermal runaway. 
 

 

[Lee65]

Unfortunately I was too slow in deleting my admittedly off-topic post before you responded.

 

It's arguable whether that form of battery can self-combust or suffer thermal runaway.  I wonder whether you are an unbiased source of info - and I'm no expert - so let's leave it here.

 

On-topic: you used your car as a backup battery to power your house.  You called it a "game-changer".   

[TorquayFan]

Snatch, 'your replies are 'testy' (to say the least) and defensive'. Why would that be ?

 

As for 'ultracrepidarians' whatever that is, it could be extremely offensive and may apply more to yourself by the look of it. Such 'ultra' can come at a young age too.

 

No point in trying to be reasonable with you. I admire your project and will be interested to see how it turns out. Myself, I have mains power and diesel at will Mr Cleverness.

 

It is a shame you have to be nasty as your videos are well done. ATB

[Bandersnatch]

8 hours ago, TorquayFan said:

Snatch, 'your replies are 'testy' (to say the least) and defensive'. Why would that be ?

 

 

People are entitled to their own Opinions but not their own Facts.

 

When people pass off hearsay as Facts they might get their fragile egos a bit bruised when they are called out on it.

 

I make no apologies for pursuing the truth

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

8 hours ago, Lee65 said:

It's arguable whether that form of battery can self-combust or suffer thermal runaway

 

I read your study “Lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) is kind of Lithium ion rechargeable battery which uses LiFePO4 as a cathode material. LiFePO4 is an intrinsically safer cathode material than LiCoO2”

 

Maybe a demonstration might be easier to visualise

 

 

[TorquayFan]

Snatch - I noticed this today which might be helpful to you : " . . . . if you want to preserve your car’s battery life, the AA recommends not letting the battery drain below 25pc or charging it above 75pc, which is more convenient when you have your own EV charger."

 

Doesn't that actually halve the quoted range on an EV (if you follow the advice?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/switching-electric-car-took-months/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

 

[macahoom]

41 minutes ago, TorquayFan said:

Snatch - I noticed this today which might be helpful to you : " . . . . if you want to preserve your car’s battery life, the AA recommends not letting the battery drain below 25pc or charging it above 75pc, which is more convenient when you have your own EV charger."

 

Doesn't that actually halve the quoted range on an EV (if you follow the advice?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/switching-electric-car-took-months/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

 

 

Good lord!

[Bandersnatch]

19 hours ago, TorquayFan said:

Snatch - I noticed this today which might be helpful to you : " . . . . if you want to preserve your car’s battery life, the AA recommends not letting the battery drain below 25pc or charging it above 75pc, which is more convenient when you have your own EV charger."

 

Doesn't that actually halve the quoted range on an EV (if you follow the advice?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/switching-electric-car-took-months/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

 

 

 

Most EV owners don’t tend to think of the ToryGraph when looking for actuate information on EVs, it has an appalling reputation. Case in point this totally debunked story:

 

 

 

As I have said several times the battery chemistry in my EV and my house batteries have a LiFePO4 cathode chemistry  - not Li-ion and can be charged to 100% every day.

 

 

One other factor that non EV owners clearly do not know is that when EV manufactures quote battery capacity they quote “Usable” capacity not Gross. My EV has an 82.5kWh usable capacity but the Gross is over 85kWh 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Bandersnatch

[TorquayFan]

Thanks Snatch - good reply.

 

Actually I admire your project and really hope it works out for you - you certainly seem to know your stuff.

 

Just watched the 'Car Care Nut' discussing end of battery life hybrid's and the difficult decision when the older car's value is the same as a replacement battery cost - I think he concludes that IF the rest of the car is A1 then it's worth the plunge, but otherwise it's difficult. Interesting.

 

Good luck - I hope it goes well.

[Lee65]

On 11/13/2023 at 6:20 AM, Bandersnatch said:

I read your study ...

 

If you read it you'd have also noted that apparently the battery type you've claimed cannot suffer thermal runaway ... can suffer thermal runaway:

 

"The thermal runaway occurs when the battery surface temperature reaches 126.7 ± 2.2 °C and releases the combustible gases. After its ignition, the combustion generally undergoes first jet fire stage, stable combustion stage, second even third jet fire stage, final stable combustion stage and extinguishes stage."

 

But you've satisfied yourself that the risk is worth taking with the specific type of batteries in your house and car.  You may be right and I hope you are.    

[Lee65]

On 11/13/2023 at 1:29 PM, TorquayFan said:

Doesn't that actually halve the quoted range on an EV (if you follow the advice?

 

Indeed.  Even if an EV owner doesn't follow that advice, the range is considerably less than maximum quoted as for practical real-world reasons one will almost never drive the car from full charge to completely empty.

 

But we're off-topic again ...

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 11/13/2023 at 1:29 PM, TorquayFan said:

Snatch - I noticed this today which might be helpful to you : " . . . . if you want to preserve your car’s battery life, the AA recommends not letting the battery drain below 25pc or charging it above 75pc, which is more convenient when you have your own EV charger."

 

Doesn't that actually halve the quoted range on an EV (if you follow the advice?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/switching-electric-car-took-months/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

 

This is only true of older battery technologies which are already on the way out. It doesn't apply for instance, to LFP batteries which many manufacturers are switching to now and as far as I'm aware. won't apply to most upcoming battery technologies (in which there is generally much less battery degradation over time anyway).

 

Electric vehicles with LFP battery compositions can be charged to 100% daily

 

Even with Lithium ion batteries, that figure of 75% sounds suspiciously low.

 

According to the same article linked to above:

 

Quote

most OEMs have been suggesting 80-90% charge limits for optimal lifetimes

 

Also, it is generally accepted that charging your Li-ion EV battery to 100% from time to time is OK - you just don't want to be doing it every single day (and most drivers don't need to, as they don't require 100% charge for their regular, daily vehicle use).

 

Which is just like an ICE vehicle if you ask me - I have a petrol vehicle and I rarely fill the tank to 100% full. And again, although people often quote it as a drawback of EV's that you're usually advised not to Iet them get below 10% (not 25% as in that Telegraph article) that's pretty much the same as with ICE vehicles.

 

I usually refill my petrol tank once it's down to somewhere between 10 - 25%. I would never let my vehicle's petrol tank get down to 0% before refilling but somehow with EV's, that's seen as something bad.

Edited November 23, 2023 by GroveHillWanderer

[TorquayFan]

Hi Grove Hill. Thanks for those comments.

 

FWIW I always FILL my ICE to the brim each time.

 

Can you quickly tell me which battery technology powered the first EV's, also the Tesla, what is the 'new' battery technology being used increasingly now and what is mostly used in Chinese EV's ?

 

I've seen a lot about new battery technology but it seems a way down the line - e.g. Toyota's project.

 

Is the now 'new' technology you refer to, a tweak of the same?

 

Would this 'new' technology in use have a different level of risk re. the rare but intense fires?

 

You can see I'm not up on the subject myself but eager to know.

 

If you have the time. ATB