Chinese EV's set to disrupt Thai Automarket

[CharlieH]

 

[KhunLA]

I think that should be 'enhance' the Thai auto market.  Only disrupt the JP 'made in TH' & imports market.

 

Only 2 yrs ago, you only had 2 MG (BEVs) reasonably priced for sale.  Now there's about 10, under 499k-1.7M baht, that are nicely spec'd, and more on the way.  Something for every budget and use.  Almost as many higher end BEVs for the ego boosters to be stroked.

[macahoom]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Almost as many higher end BEVs for the ego boosters to be stroked.

 

Can you explain what you mean by this?

[mikebike]

1 minute ago, macahoom said:

 

Can you explain what you mean by this?

There are now hiso EVs

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, macahoom said:

 

Can you explain what you mean by this?

The ones out of my price range ... 

Porche

Benz

Actually the LR version of some of the 1.5ish M ones.  All wheel drive, <4 secs to 100 kph.  Higher end specs & price.

 

Personally I think spending 1M for 4 wheels is a bit much.  When they start hitting 1.5M baht & up, the starting price of a decent house, yea, that's higher end budgets, though they do come with high end performance, which I'd probably never need or use here.  

 

My LoSo <1M baht MG ZS is more than I'll need or will use here.

 

A few of the top sellers a couple months ago, and 4 of those are 2+M baht.  That's more than our house w/solar, and the adjacent w/greenhouse. (76k+1.2M+445k+250k+50k)

[mistral53]

Not only the Thai Auto-market - the Japanese seem mighty impressed by the BYD Seal they tore down. Gone are the times when Chinese cars were mere copies of legacy tech, in EV's they are clearly in the lead together with Tesla, and judging by the development tempo and innovation, disruption is just the beginning.

 

https://project.nikkeibp.co.jp/mirai/byd_seal/all/

[billd766]

China can import as many EV's as they want to Thailand.

 

If few people buy then then the Chinese will have to dump them on the market and sell them at a loss or stop importing them. The problem with dumping them onto the market is that financial penalties can be imposed against the importer for dumping.

 

Thailand, just like every other country, can set its import duty at what ever rate that it wants. If the country decides that it will allow unlimited imports, then the import duty will be low. Conversely if they don't want many imports then they simply raise the import duty.

[Photoguy21]

9 minutes ago, billd766 said:

China can import as many EV's as they want to Thailand.

 

If few people buy then then the Chinese will have to dump them on the market and sell them at a loss or stop importing them. The problem with dumping them onto the market is that financial penalties can be imposed against the importer for dumping.

 

Thailand, just like every other country, can set its import duty at what ever rate that it wants. If the country decides that it will allow unlimited imports, then the import duty will be low. Conversely if they don't want many imports then they simply raise the import duty.

Thousands of EV's are being dumped in China

[Banana7]

Major issues with foreign made motor vehicles is service and parts availability, especially for EVs. Sometimes it can take months to get imported parts, even if the vehicle is new and under warranty. If parts are not stocked in Thailand, forget about buying the vehicle. New brand vehicles, like BYD and others,  may not have adequate service centres with fully trained staff. Buyer beware!

[mistral53]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

China can import as many EV's as they want to Thailand.

 

If few people buy then then the Chinese will have to dump them on the market and sell them at a loss or stop importing them. The problem with dumping them onto the market is that financial penalties can be imposed against the importer for dumping.

 

Thailand, just like every other country, can set its import duty at what ever rate that it wants. If the country decides that it will allow unlimited imports, then the import duty will be low. Conversely if they don't want many imports then they simply raise the import duty.

I jumped on one of the Chinese imports because it has no import taxes, and the Thai government handed me a check of THB 150,000 for buying this Chinese made car........ and I love what I got to pieces -  what's not to like about value for the money?

 

BTW - reservations after 4 days at the Car Expo shows 6 Chinese brands in the first 10......... gawd that sucks! 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, mistral53 said:

I jumped on one of the Chinese imports because it has no import taxes, and the Thai government handed me a check of THB 150,000 for buying this Chinese made car........ and I love what I got to pieces -  what's not to like about value for the money?

 

BTW - reservations after 4 days at the Car Expo shows 6 Chinese brands in the first 10......... gawd that sucks! 

Good for you.

 

IIRC back in the UK even in the 1950s you used to get discounts on cars at the motor shows.

 

The bonus for you was the Thai government pushing EVs and giving you an extra discount. Hopefully the cashback from the government will keep coming, though with all the other super plans they have in their basket of plenty, I hope that they have enough money.

[Gweiloman]

18 hours ago, Banana7 said:

Major issues with foreign made motor vehicles is service and parts availability, especially for EVs. Sometimes it can take months to get imported parts, even if the vehicle is new and under warranty. If parts are not stocked in Thailand, forget about buying the vehicle. New brand vehicles, like BYD and others,  may not have adequate service centres with fully trained staff. Buyer beware!

Servicing means plugging in a diagnostic machine. No need to change engine oil even. As to parts, I assume you mean bits and pieces like nuts and bolts? Not many parts in an EV compared to ICEV.

[Melpomene]

17 hours ago, mistral53 said:

I jumped on one of the Chinese imports because it has no import taxes, and the Thai government handed me a check of THB 150,000 for buying this Chinese made car........ and I love what I got to pieces -  what's not to like about value for the money?

 

BTW - reservations after 4 days at the Car Expo shows 6 Chinese brands in the first 10......... gawd that sucks! 

Apologies for probably reading your post a bit too literally, but the 150k is reflected in the selling price isn't it ? Or is it in fact cashback to the buyer ?

 

If it's the latter then these EVs are even cheaper than I thought !!! No wonder they're selling like hot cakes...

[mistral53]

22 minutes ago, Melpomene said:

Apologies for probably reading your post a bit too literally, but the 150k is reflected in the selling price isn't it ? Or is it in fact cashback to the buyer ?

 

If it's the latter then these EVs are even cheaper than I thought !!! No wonder they're selling like hot cakes...

It's the former, all EV's get the incentive, and it goes to the importer, presumably with a lot of red tape involved. Does not change the bottom line to the buyer, we get a heck of a deal right now, but I am not sure how much longer this program will be in effect.

[Melpomene]

2 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

It's the former, all EV's get the incentive, and it goes to the importer, presumably with a lot of red tape involved. Does not change the bottom line to the buyer, we get a heck of a deal right now, but I am not sure how much longer this program will be in effect.

 

Thanks, yes that what I thought it was. Totally agree there's some great deals on the EVs at the moment.

 

It'll be interesting to see what the manufacturers do when it does eventually end...

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, mistral53 said:

It's the former, all EV's get the incentive, and it goes to the importer, presumably with a lot of red tape involved. Does not change the bottom line to the buyer, we get a heck of a deal right now, but I am not sure how much longer this program will be in effect.

It does change the bottom line to the buyer if the choose not to register the vehicle before the closure of the EV 3.0 subsidy program they will be asked to either pay the extra or cancel their order I believe EV 3.0 subsidy program has been extended to 31st January 2024

The dealer is on the hook for the EV 3.0 subsidy amount and they get that money refunded once white label registration has taken place. it places an incentive on the dealer to ensure white label registration takes place asap after delivery of vehicle

 they must complete everything before December 31, 2023, but if not, they must brake. Trading or stopping accepting reservations Or if there will be a reservation There may need to be an agreement with the customer. Regarding the difference in money that occurs in the case of registration in time, who will be responsible?

https://www.prachachat.net/motoring/news-1363512

[JBChiangRai]

I have a suspicion that the price without the subsidy will remain the same and the manufacturers will absorb it.

 

I think they’re making huge margins with ChineseEV’s

[Melpomene]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

I have a suspicion that the price without the subsidy will remain the same and the manufacturers will absorb it.

 

I think they’re making huge margins with ChineseEV’s

 

I'm inclined to agree.  It would be a tough sell from these manufacturers to all of a sudden put their prices up by 150k.  I expect to them absorb most, If not all, of the subsidy once it's gone.  Perhaps we'll see them tweak the promotions they offer, eg no free wall charger, or higher promotional finance interest rates etc, as a way of offsetting some of this.

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

I have a suspicion that the price without the subsidy will remain the same and the manufacturers will absorb it.

 

I think they’re making huge margins with ChineseEV’s

There is a new EV package that starts when EV 3.0 ends it is EV 3.5

The new “EV3.5” subsidy was signed off by Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin this week and is a scaled-down version of the existing subsidy programme, which offers buyers between THB70,000 and THB150,000 per vehicle

https://www.just-auto.com/news/thailand-announces-extended-ev-subsidies-for-2024-2027/?cf-view

[Banana7]

On 12/4/2023 at 9:11 AM, Gweiloman said:

Servicing means plugging in a diagnostic machine. No need to change engine oil even. As to parts, I assume you mean bits and pieces like nuts and bolts? Not many parts in an EV compared to ICEV.

Not just any bits and pieces. Things like the electronic controllers, regulators, motors, wiring harnesses, relays, thermal management systems, battery management system, DC/DC converter, etc. Lots of electrical/electronic parts to fail, and make the vehicle inoperable.

 

[NoDisplayName]

On 12/3/2023 at 2:07 PM, Photoguy21 said:

Thousands of EV's are being dumped in China

 

You might think so, if you consume CIA/Felongong propaganda.

 

That video of fields of EV's I suspect you probably viewed on one of those sites on Youtube was a fleet of cars from a bankrupt cellphone  e-rideshare app.

[Photoguy21]

Just now, NoDisplayName said:

 

You might think so, if you consume CIA/Felongong propaganda.

 

That video of fields of EV's I suspect you probably viewed on one of those sites on Youtube was a fleet of cars from a bankrupt cellphone  e-rideshare app.

They are. I know guys working in China and they are saying the same. China, right now, is great at copying looks but not the quality.

[V8M8]

25 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

Not just any bits and pieces. Things like the electronic controllers, regulators, motors, wiring harnesses, relays, thermal management systems, battery management system, DC/DC converter, etc. Lots of electrical/electronic parts to fail, and make the vehicle inoperable.

 

And the list goes on, brake discs and pads, bearings, shocks, suspension bushes, steering rack componants, windows, windscreens, head lights/tail lights, body panels etc. All usually unique to a particular model of vehicle. 

[BenStark]

On 12/4/2023 at 12:54 PM, JBChiangRai said:

I have a suspicion that the price without the subsidy will remain the same and the manufacturers will absorb it.

 

I think they’re making huge margins with ChineseEV’s

 

If they are making so huge margins as you claim, then why aren't they profitable even with the subsidy?

 

https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3237078/chinas-ev-war-only-strongest-will-survive-byd-xpengs-dominance-knock-out-15-pretenders-amid-supply

 

Some even lose $35000 per car built

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/05/business/nio-china-electric-vehicles.html

[JBChiangRai]

27 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

If they are making so huge margins as you claim, then why aren't they profitable even with the subsidy?

 

https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3237078/chinas-ev-war-only-strongest-will-survive-byd-xpengs-dominance-knock-out-15-pretenders-amid-supply

 

Some even lose $35000 per car built

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/05/business/nio-china-electric-vehicles.html

 

I can't read the 2nd article as it's behind a paywall.

 

I think Chinese EV's sold here have a huge margin because they are typically 20%-50% more expensive here than they are in China

 

Were any of the vehicles sold here mentioned in that article?

[Gweiloman]

18 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

They are. I know guys working in China and they are saying the same. China, right now, is great at copying looks but not the quality.

I guess you haven’t sat in a BYD or HAVAL or MG recently. If you had, you will know that the quality is on par with Japanese made cars and at the higher end, on par with premium European makes. Durability might be an issue in the long run but as of now, the fit and finish is up there with the best automakers in the world.

[WorriedNoodle]

46 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Durability might be an issue

 

Surely durability is a HUGE factor! EVs are a big investment, and folks want to know they're getting something that will last. While EV technology has come a long way in recent years, it's still relatively new compared to internal combustion engines, and there's a natural concern about long-term reliability. Some key factors to consider when evaluating an EV’s durability are battery life, drivetrain quality, and build quality. For example, a good battery should retain a significant portion of its capacity even after years of use. And a quality drivetrain should be able to handle frequent acceleration and deceleration, while also being quiet and smooth. Lastly, good build quality means fewer creaks, rattles, and squeaks, and fewer trips to the repair shop. So yeah, durability is a key concern for EV buyers!

[it is what it is]

On 12/4/2023 at 2:11 AM, Gweiloman said:

Servicing means plugging in a diagnostic machine. No need to change engine oil even. As to parts, I assume you mean bits and pieces like nuts and bolts? Not many parts in an EV compared to ICEV.

 

you also need appropriately trained mechanics/technicians to repair and service these vehicles, old school mechanics just don't have the knowledge, there will be a time lag as skill sets are brought up to speed.

[Photoguy21]

4 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

I guess you haven’t sat in a BYD or HAVAL or MG recently. If you had, you will know that the quality is on par with Japanese made cars and at the higher end, on par with premium European makes. Durability might be an issue in the long run but as of now, the fit and finish is up there with the best automakers in the world.

Lets put like this, if EV's are so good and people cant get enough of them how come the CEO of Toyota has publicly stated they are stopping the EV production? If you live in a house and only want to drive short distances they are fine but for long distance they are not. Additionally how do you think the resale value will be? Most dealers I am sure will give you very little as people know they may well have to replace the batteries which is not a cheap thing to do.

[Lacessit]

As long as the bloody things don't park next to me.