So how about that racial profiling!

[Airwolf]

3 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

 

They just wanna make you wear a helmet for your own safety as a tourist. If you don't wanna give them cash, you can always get a receipt and pay at a police station, that's not the point.

Did you read my original post.

I was wearing a helmet.

You also get a receipt so you can drive around with no helmet for 3 days.

Nothing to do with safety.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Airwolf

[Airwolf]

24 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

We foreigners are an easy target. Just have to accept it. Be sure to wear a helmet and have all documents in order. No big deal.

 

Sure are, even with a helmet. I accept that's how it is here, it's still wrong.

 

[darrendsd]

The simple answer is they get more money out of farangs, we pay double or more the backhander to what Thais do

 

However to suggest Thais don't get stopped is untrue, I've seen plenty of them being pulled over

 

 

[Airwolf]

3 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

The simple answer is they get more money out of farangs, we pay double or more the backhander to what Thais do

 

However to suggest Thais don't get stopped is untrue, I've seen plenty of them being pulled over

 

 

Ah, you get it!

 

That said, I've never seen a Thai wearing a helmet pulled over. Without a helmet, I have seen this happen. 

 

However, a farang with a helmet would trump a Thai with no helmet.

[Denim]

2 hours ago, Airwolf said:

Stopped again by the cops at a checkpoint. Wearing a helmet. They had another farang, no helmet.

 

Meanwhile, Thais driving on by, no problem, some with no helmets.

 

I'm sure this type of racial profiling is all over Asia, just weird that they get a pass.

 

Can you imagine setting up a checkpoint in The US and stopping only Asians!

 

At least stop a few locals so it's not so blatant.

 

Anyway, I know, TIT. 

 

 

 

Where is this ?

 

If you live in an area popular with tourists it is more likely to happen than in the boonies. A young policeman once told me that to get assigned to a tourist area in the first place , a bribe to the right person withing the police force is usually necessary.  Working in a tourist area is seen as more lucrative than in the back of beyond or worse still in the deep south. As a consequence , tourist areas have cops that are generally more venal than in other areas.

 

A policeman in Khon Kaen town once pulled me over for riding the entire length of a one way street the wrong way. I apologised and explained I hadn't seen the sign. He said mai pen rai but be  more careful then let me go.

 

Leaving Pattaya on the way to Sathaheep in a car a young cop pulled me over. I asked what I did wrong ?  He said I stayed in the righthand lane too long.  I told him I was driving on the left and only used the right lane to overtake a stationary coach !! You took too long was his feeble response. He offered me 2 options. Leave the car parked there and accompany him to the police station to file a report or pay 100 baht on the spot fine.

[Airwolf]

3 minutes ago, Denim said:

 

Where is this ?

 

If you live in an area popular with tourists it is more likely to happen than in the boonies. A young policeman once told me that to get assigned to a tourist area in the first place , a bribe to the right person withing the police force is usually necessary.  Working in a tourist area is seen as more lucrative than in the back of beyond or worse still in the deep south. As a consequence , tourist areas have cops that are generally more venal than in other areas.

 

A policeman in Khon Kaen town once pulled me over for riding the entire length of a one way street the wrong way. I apologised and explained I hadn't seen the sign. He said mai pen rai but be  more careful then let me go.

 

Leaving Pattaya on the way to Sathaheep in a car a young cop pulled me over. I asked what I did wrong ?  He said I stayed in the righthand lane too long.  I told him I was driving on the left and only used the right lane to overtake a stationary coach !! You took too long was his feeble response. He offered me 2 options. Leave the car parked there and accompany him to the police station to file a report or pay 100 baht on the spot fine.

 

Yep, tourist area. They already had a farang, with no helmet. I get that.

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, Airwolf said:

Stopped again by the cops at a checkpoint. Wearing a helmet. They had another farang, no helmet.

 

Meanwhile, Thais driving on by, no problem, some with no helmets.

 

I'm sure this type of racial profiling is all over Asia, just weird that they get a pass.

 

Can you imagine setting up a checkpoint in The US and stopping only Asians!

 

At least stop a few locals so it's not so blatant.

 

Anyway, I know, TIT. 

A limited number of police officers cannot stop every offended at the same time.  You're not trying to say that during the whole time of the checkpoint being there they only stopped foreigners?

[worgeordie]

2 hours ago, Airwolf said:

Stopped again by the cops at a checkpoint. Wearing a helmet. They had another farang, no helmet.

 

Meanwhile, Thais driving on by, no problem, some with no helmets.

 

I'm sure this type of racial profiling is all over Asia, just weird that they get a pass.

 

Can you imagine setting up a checkpoint in The US and stopping only Asians!

 

At least stop a few locals so it's not so blatant.

 

Anyway, I know, TIT. 

 

 

So are you trying to say they were only stopping Farangs ?  highly doubt that ,they would

have a long wait between victims , I am  all in favour of road blocks ,I don't want anyone

crashing into me that does not have a license or insurance ,or drives around drunk like

Bob Smith ,if you have everything in order ,nothing to worry about ,if not I hope they catch you...

 

regards worgeordie

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, Airwolf said:

I'm sure this type of racial profiling is all over Asia, just weird that they get a pass.

Was it racial profiling on the few occasions that I've been waved through police checkpoints but the locals were not?

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, Airwolf said:

Yes, but if police in Western countries targeted a specific race, that wouldn't be tolerated.

Where's your evidence that the police were only targetting foreigners at that checkpoint?  How long did you stay there to observe?

[LS24]

2 hours ago, Airwolf said:

Stopped again by the cops at a checkpoint. Wearing a helmet. They had another farang, no helmet.

 

Meanwhile, Thais driving on by, no problem, some with no helmets.

 

I'm sure this type of racial profiling is all over Asia, just weird that they get a pass.

 

Can you imagine setting up a checkpoint in The US and stopping only Asians!

 

At least stop a few locals so it's not so blatant.

 

Anyway, I know, TIT. 

 

 

A perfectly logical explanation could be that there had been reports of a whitey who had done something nefarious in the area. Boys in brown were asked to conduct stops under the guise of a license check so as to not raise suspicion.

 

Another is that the sample size you chose was just too small and by way of statistics, you just happened to be one of two whiteys pulled over at the time. Check for confirmation bias in your post.

Edited December 8, 2023 by LS24

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, Purdey said:

So happy to be proven wrong and that George Floyd and the dozens of unarmed black guys killed by cops were guilty of living in the wrong area and it had nothing to do with discrimination.

Floyd was arrested by a black police officer, that's hardly discrimination and, as the legal cases are ongoing, that his death was not caused by the police officer may yet be proven.

[stoner]

1 hour ago, bob smith said:

when you see a police checkpoint on the horizon just turn around and pull into a coffee shop.

 

that's what I do, especially if I'm drunk...

 

just get a cup holder for your beer installed on the bike.

[Gecko123]

46 minutes ago, Airwolf said:

Why is this so hard to accept, it is what it is.

Because...

 

...you misused the term "racial profiling" to present yourself as a victim of racial discrimination, when at worst you were targeted as a "foreigner" not because of the color of your skin.

 

...you are making generalizations about Thailand's, and apparently all of Asia's policing based on one anecdotal incident 

 

...while people have occasionally complained on this forum in the past about being targeted by the police for not wearing helmets, these complaints have been relatively infrequent, enough so to suggest that this is not a widespread or endemic problem, and/or the complaints lack objectivity

 

...your complaint is not being received particularly sympathetically because: (1) if you are obeying traffic regulations you should have nothing to worry about;  (2) as a foreigner who presumably comes from a country with higher road safety standards than Thailand, you should be supporting any and all efforts to improve road safety for the benefit of all, and (3) every time there is a horrific traffic accident news report it is invariably pointed out that Thailand has poor police traffic enforcement standards which need to be improved, so we can't have it both ways.

 

Against this backdrop, it's not surprising that complaints about foreigners being "racially profiled" for not wearing helmets only receive any sympathy from those most intent on laughably portraying themselves as long-suffering victims of racial discrimination.

[simon43]

Here in north Laos the racial profiling by the police is 'in your face'.  When I ride my uninsured, old Vietnamese motorbike (with Vietnam plates etc) down the main road in Luang Prabang, the local police at the daily checkpoint make a big effort to wave me though as quickly as possible, lest they be called upon to attempt to speak English with me :) (I can speak reasonable Lao language now, but as in Thailand, I play the dumb tourist if stopped!).

[Felton Jarvis]

2 hours ago, stoner said:

 

i fail to see what the issue is.......

 

last week on phuket i encountered 3 check points in 2 days. heres how they all went.

 

me...riding up to check point i see it set up. down goes my sun visor on my helmet. as i approach police guy looks at me and waves me through. all 3 times. 

 

keeping in mind at the time i was wearing 

 

faded hoodie from thousands of hours in the sun riding 

cheap finger cut out grab driver gloves

raggedy ass jeans

adda flip flops

 

so yes i was profiled and loved every minute of it. 

Racial profiling does not exist in Thailand. You are a foreigner. You have no rights that any Thai need respect.

[recom273]

The BiB are often guilty of a lot of things, I find that when on the bike, without a helmet the roadblocks are for yabba dealers, when I’m out on the big bike with a loud pipe they might want to see a license, but often flipping the visor up will get me a pass (this has worked at roadblocks around Hat Yai to Hua Hin, in Hua Hin they want to see a license), and when out in the truck, they correctly presume that westerners have licenses and insurance, they check the road tax and give me a salute.

 

Others experience may be different, especially in tourist areas but generally they don’t care.

[stoner]

10 minutes ago, Felton Jarvis said:

Racial profiling does not exist in Thailand. You are a foreigner. You have no rights that any Thai need respect.

 

really ?

 

so all the laws do not apply to me as well ? since i also have no rights here. you sound bonkers. 

[Stocky]

3 hours ago, Airwolf said:

I'm sure this type of racial profiling is all over Asia, just weird that they get a pass.

You're wrong, it's financial profiling, nothing to do with race.

[richard_smith237]

59 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Was it racial profiling on the few occasions that I've been waved through police checkpoints but the locals were not?

 

I think it is....  Profiling based on nationality (more than race).

 

In Bangkok and other area's the Police are just not interested in foreigners (generally) and we get waved through, whereas the Police are more inclined to be checking for Thai's and migrant labourers without bike tax and without licences etc...

 

In Tourist hotpspots, its is tourists who are targetted because the police have learned that many of the do not have a licence and are riding illegally. 

 

It is of course profiling, is it based on race? I think so because skin colour is one of the easiest identifiers. 

 

But... it is profiling based on experience and knowledge of behavior. 

 

I dont think you can blame the Police for this - but you can thank all of the other tourists who ride without a licence. 

 

Edit: I just saw the last response about 'Financial profiling' and thats a valid point.

In tourist hot spots it is the tourists who can afford to pay the fines, so of course they are targeted.

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

45 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Because...

 

...you misused the term "racial profiling" to present yourself as a victim of racial discrimination, when at worst you were targeted as a "foreigner" not because of the color of your skin.

 

...you are making generalizations about Thailand's, and apparently all of Asia's policing based on one anecdotal incident 

 

...while people have occasionally complained on this forum in the past about being targeted by the police for not wearing helmets, these complaints have been relatively infrequent, enough so to suggest that this is not a widespread or endemic problem, and/or the complaints lack objectivity

 

...your complaint is not being received particularly sympathetically because: (1) if you are obeying traffic regulations you should have nothing to worry about;  (2) as a foreigner who presumably comes from a country with higher road safety standards than Thailand, you should be supporting any and all efforts to improve road safety for the benefit of all, and (3) every time there is a horrific traffic accident news report it is invariably pointed out that Thailand has poor police traffic enforcement standards which need to be improved, so we can't have it both ways.

 

Against this backdrop, it's not surprising that complaints about foreigners being "racially profiled" for not wearing helmets only receive any sympathy from those most intent on laughably portraying themselves as long-suffering victims of racial discrimination.

 

I think the Op makes a valid point which you have missed. 

 

When fully legal, IF he is being stopped regularly, its because he is a foreigner. 

 

When this happens frequently it becomes very annoying. 

 

 

Finally - when Police stop motorcycists without a helmet, take a fine and then permit them to ride on, we know its has nothing to do with road safety and everything to do with money. 

[PJ71]

3 hours ago, stoner said:

 

i fail to see what the issue is.......

 

last week on phuket i encountered 3 check points in 2 days. heres how they all went.

 

me...riding up to check point i see it set up. down goes my sun visor on my helmet. as i approach police guy looks at me and waves me through. all 3 times. 

 

keeping in mind at the time i was wearing 

 

faded hoodie from thousands of hours in the sun riding 

cheap finger cut out grab driver gloves

raggedy ass jeans

adda flip flops

 

so yes i was profiled and loved every minute of it. 

You think the cops thought you were a local - that's funny.....

[PJ71]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I think it is....  Profiling based on nationality (more than race).

 

In Bangkok and other area's the Police are just not interested in foreigners (generally) and we get waved through, whereas the Police are more inclined to be checking for Thai's and migrant labourers without bike tax and without licences etc...

 

In Tourist hotpspots, its is tourists who are targetted because the police have learned that many of the do not have a licence and are riding illegally. 

 

It is of course profiling, is it based on race? I think so because skin colour is one of the easiest identifiers. 

 

But... it is profiling based on experience and knowledge of behavior. 

 

I dont think you can blame the Police for this - but you can thank all of the other tourists who ride without a licence. 

 

Edit: I just saw the last response about 'Financial profiling' and thats a valid point.

In tourist hot spots it is the tourists who can afford to pay the fines, so of course they are targeted.

 

 

 

 

Which is it?

[stoner]

7 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

You think the cops thought you were a local - that's funny.....

 

what's so funny about that ?

 

please enlighten me as to how a police officer could determine i was not a local. totally clothed no skin showing and no sign at all i was a foreigner. 

 

looking like a thai grabman. yes he simply waved me through because. smh. 

[James105]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Where's your evidence that the police were only targetting foreigners at that checkpoint?  How long did you stay there to observe?

 

It's fairly common here.  I almost never make it past a checkpoint without being pulled over even though I'm wearing a helmet.   Out of (and I'm guessing here) 50 checkpoints I've been waved through once and stopped the other 49 times whilst wearing a helmet every time.   I do see Thai's getting pulled over if not wearing a helmet though, but never a Thai with a helmet.  

 

I think everyone knows these are just a money making venture rather than a safety one.   Since that is the goal then racial profiling makes sense here considering motorbike rental shops will rent a bike without the renter needing a licence, whereas Thai's will have a licence unless they happen to be my GF who has never had a licence and never been stopped at a checkpoint so doesn't see the need to get one :/.  

[Liverpool Lou]

22 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Was it racial profiling on the few occasions that I've been waved through police checkpoints but the locals were not?

 

I think it is....  Profiling based on nationality (more than race).

Yes, that was my point to the OP who was suggesting that foreigners were the victims of whatever type of profiling it was...it applies to all,  Thais included, so, regarding his thread, it is not profiling directed at foreigners in particular.

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, Airwolf said:

Stopped again by the cops at a checkpoint. Wearing a helmet. They had another farang, no helmet.

 

Meanwhile, Thais driving on by, no problem, some with no helmets.

 

I'm sure this type of racial profiling is all over Asia, just weird that they get a pass.

 

Can you imagine setting up a checkpoint in The US and stopping only Asians!

 

At least stop a few locals so it's not so blatant.

 

Anyway, I know, TIT. 

Maybe they are purposely profiling for show, hopefully, and it will get around to all the ignorant & arrogant foreigners that fail to follow the laws.  Then maybe hospitals will get paid, no more 'go fund my stupidity' pages, and maybe, even save a few idiots from themselves.

 

I'm all for it, max fine, confiscate vehicle, make 'em walk or taxi away from the checkpoint.  

[freeworld]

Some say if one dresses nicely, say in a suit, then the cops will think highly of them and leave them alone.

Edited December 8, 2023 by freeworld

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, stoner said:

 

i fail to see what the issue is.......

 

last week on phuket i encountered 3 check points in 2 days. heres how they all went.

 

me...riding up to check point i see it set up. down goes my sun visor on my helmet. as i approach police guy looks at me and waves me through. all 3 times. 

 

keeping in mind at the time i was wearing 

 

faded hoodie from thousands of hours in the sun riding 

cheap finger cut out grab driver gloves

raggedy ass jeans

adda flip flops

 

so yes i was profiled and loved every minute of it. 

Just hope you are not involved in a traffic accident, because you will be at fault, irrespective of the circumstances. See how you like the profiling then

A friend of mine on a main road was T-boned by a Thai in a pickup coming out of a soi. My friend was in  and out of hospital for three months. The Thai in the pickup was as drunk as a skunk.

When he got out of hospital, he had to pay for the repairs to the Thai's pickup. who was uninsured.

The police were in attendance at the accident, and sided with the Thai in terms of fault.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Lacessit

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Maybe they are purposely profiling for show, hopefully, and it will get around to all the ignorant & arrogant foreigners that fail to follow the laws.  Then maybe hospitals will get paid, no more 'go fund my stupidity' pages, and maybe, even save a few idiots from themselves.

 

I'm all for it, max fine, confiscate vehicle, make 'em walk or taxi away from the checkpoint.  

 

Why only foreigners ????

 

You've 'cherry-picked' the burden of unpaid medical bills on the Thai Health system...

Foreigners bring in approximately 29 Billion Baht to Thailands Medical industry. 

Unpaid bills is approximately 448 Million Baht.

 

IF foreigners stopped using the Thai Healthcare facilities, Thailands medical industry would receive 28.5 Billion Baht a year less.

 

So, while I agree with your sentiment that foreigners should obey all laws, using the costs of the 'medical burden' of foreigners to the healthcare system is flawed...

 

... as is isolating foreigners at all, anyone not breaking traffic laws, not wearing helmets etc should be challenged, stopped, fined etc - not just foreigners.... So your 'distaste' is better directed towards all who break the law, not just foreigners.