The Problem With EVs

[Bandersnatch]

3 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I've never honestly thought EV's are the future, I'm more hopeful for H2 fuel cells.

Why don’t you import a H2 car (can’t buy one in Thailand) and put your money where your mouth is?

 

There are no public H2 filling stations here, but maybe you can fill it at home like many of us EV owners do here from our solar systems.

 

Looking forward to hearing how you get on.

[BKKBike09]

6 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I will have to ask Wallace, he's been there with his dog.

 

I think he buckled his trunnions driving over some of that cheese.

[JBChiangRai]

34 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

I think he buckled his trunnions driving over some of that cheese.

 

I wonder how many non-Brits got that one?

[DavisH]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I wonder how many non-Brits got that one?

My kid loved the Wallace and Gromit videos when he was young. I'm not a Brit and I enjoyed those shows also. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by DavisH

[GinBoy2]

2 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

Why don’t you import a H2 car (can’t buy one in Thailand) and put your money where your mouth is?

 

There are no public H2 filling stations here, but maybe you can fill it at home like many of us EV owners do here from our solar systems.

 

Looking forward to hearing how you get on.

Jeez, you guys amaze me.

 

I never said the technology is available right now.

 

What I said, and parse this however you want to spin it, is that EV's aren't the long term solution

[vinny41]

On 12/10/2023 at 6:57 AM, josephbloggs said:

Just thought I would share this - a series of three articles, each one tackling a different "problem".  Subject are "range anxiety (should you worry about getting stranded)", "the dirty EV mining industry", and "the fire risk of EVs". 

 

I thought they were pretty well balanced and fair. Would be keen to hear feedback from any open minded anti-EV posters.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/series/ev-mythbusters

 

(Yeah yeah, the Guardian, lefty liberal, pushing the woke agenda, blah blah)

 

12 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

@josephbloggs Your topic really brought out the EV hating loonies, is it a full moon?

 

They have

 

No interest in owning an EV,

Clearly no knowledge about EVs,

No experience in owning an EV,

 

Yet they want to spend their time arguing with people who have years of EV driving experience.  

 

Good job keeping your cool.

Clearly you didn't read the op initial port as he made it clear he was looking for feedback from  any open minded anti-EV posters. now to me that excludes any of EV fanboys on this forum unless they come under the heading of open minded anti-EV posters

As to the rest of your post your making yourself look like a social media influencer that can't cope with negative views about EV's

[KhunLA]

4 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Jeez, you guys amaze me....I never said the technology is available right now...What I said, and parse this however you want to spin it, is that EV's aren't the long term solution

Describe long term, and for who ?

 

EVs are for me, the next 10 years if lucky enough.  Also for my wife, the next 20 yrs, if not longer, as she won't need another car, if ever, as expect the present one to last 20+ years for the amount of driving she'll be doing, once I'm gone.

 

I've owned cars not made as good, and were older.  Who knows what we'll be driving in 20+ years, if even allowed to in some countries.

 

And the savings of owning our present EV, will pay for anything the future holds.  Saved 40-50+k last year, if driving 20k kms a year, depending how energized.   Times that by 20+ years.

 

That's a long term transport solution for us.

Edited December 14, 2023 by KhunLA

[Bandersnatch]

7 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Jeez, you guys amaze me.

 

I never said the technology is available right now.

 

What I said, and parse this however you want to spin it, is that EV's aren't the long term solution

 

“Jeez” You didn’t provide any evidence to support your theories. So here is some for the counter argument.

 

H2 filling stations around the world are closing now, not expanding:

 

https://innovationorigins.com/en/first-shell-now-motive-hydrogen-fuel-station-closures-continue-in-the-uk/

 

 

Reservations at this month’s BKK Motor show provide evidence that there is a growing demand for EVs here as 6 of the top 14 brands are companies that sell EVs

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Bandersnatch

[Bandersnatch]

5 hours ago, vinny41 said:

 

Clearly you didn't read the op initial port as he made it clear he was looking for feedback from  any open minded anti-EV posters. now to me that excludes any of EV fanboys on this forum unless they come under the heading of open minded anti-EV posters

As to the rest of your post your making yourself look like a social media influencer that can't cope with negative views about EV's

 

I am happy to hear sensible criticism of EVs based on facts. I didn’t see much of that.

 

Why is it that only those who don’t own an EV here claim range anxiety is a major problem. 99% of my charging is done at home from my solar. I have 600km of range and can add 350km extra in 20 minutes.

 

The OP did say that for many of the posters an EV is clearly not for them and I agree. It’s not as easy as rolling into PTT with a “Bee Jet Ha Roy” There are apps that can be a tricky for some and the technology on the cars can be overwhelming.

 

 

It’s not that I “can't cope with negative views about EV's” I can’t stand the BS from people who know nothing about the topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

51 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

It’s not that I “can't cope with negative views about EV's” I can’t stand the BS from people who know nothing about the topic.

I can't stand the BS reasons / excuses for not owning an EV.

 

Range ... sure, you can drive maybe 5-600 kms in you car, or even 1000 kms in your large fuel tanked diesel truck ... BUT ... do you really ?

 

500 kms = 6-7 hrs on Thai roads, and I hope you don't expect anyone to believe you are driving that far, without stopping.  Make the wife & kids P in a jar.  Sometimes I have to stop within the first hour of leaving the house, and actually did the last trip, as emergency toilet stop.

 

Note to self, don't eat & drink coffee before heading out next time.   Then wife decided she needed a toilet stop 20 kms down the road 

 

Charging takes too long.  After 3+ hours, you're stopping anyway, if not sooner.  30 minutes to top up EV, all of maybe 20 more minutes than a petrol stop, and that's without a browse and or munch, pick up a snack.  Need to kill time while charging, troll on AN, that's time consumer.  Don't forget the 1000 baht you saved by not buying petrol.

 

And yet, you have no problem, Q'ing up every week at the petrol station for 10 mins, but don't consider those times an inconvenience.  10 times 52 or 26 times a year, adds up.  Much more than my 30 seconds of plug in/out at the house once a week.

 

EVs cost more to buy ... that's BS now, and the savings of operating & maintaining, and time saved from going to the dealer/shop to have done.  Yea ... nuff said

 

Fire hazard ... proven BS

Battery replacement ... more BS

Depreciation ... unknown & more BS, make/model dependent

 

2 real reason;

... you just don't want one

... can't charge at home, marginal reason, but understandable, especially if you rack up the kms.

Edited December 15, 2023 by KhunLA

[macahoom]

50 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

I can’t stand the BS from people who know nothing about the topic.

 

And who seem to be inexplicably obsessed with, and fixated on, commenting on the topic.

[Gweiloman]

15 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I've never honestly thought EV's are the future, I'm more hopeful for H2 fuel cells.

 

Location is one problem, in geographies where distance is a issue, thats one problem.

 

Charging time is another.

 

You can fill your gas tank to full in a couple of minutes, try charging an EV, even with a fast charger in that time, just plug it in and go and get some lunch!

 

We have a Ranger truck in Thailand, which I have no intention of replacing, and even if I did what percentage of electricity is produced from carbon in Thailand, probably I'd just be lining the pockets of the lithium mining companies.

 

In the US we just bought a new car, and I looked at a Tesla, but....

We live in South Dakota and the distances are huge. A six hour drive to see the kids in Denver, and there is one charging station in the wilderness of Wyoming.

Thats's down, and you might as well book a hotel in 'Hicksville' for the winter, since I don't think AAA will be bringing out the electric equivalent of a gallon of gas to get you out of trouble!

Just because the infrastructure in the States is poor doesn’t mean that EVs are not the future for other parts of the world, especially in Asia.

 

A six hour drive in Thailand would equate to about 400 km or so. Most EVs sold here are capable of doing this on a single charge. However, 99% of drivers would be taking a break for a meal/toilet stop. In that time, assuming a charger is available, one can easily add another 250 km or so to the range. So it’s not much of an issue to make such a trip here in Thailand.

 

Given price of H2 plus the investment required to build filling stations, I don’t see any mass adoption in the near to medium term.

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, macahoom said:

 

And who seem to be inexplicably obsessed with, and fixated on, commenting on the topic.

 

I think it's Jealousy, I can't see any other logical reason.

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think it's Jealousy, I can't see any other logical reason.

Or they say ... 'I enjoy the experience of true driving' ... the vroom & vibration of the engine.   No thanks.

 

If performance is your goal, then you're an idiot for not having an EV.  Power & torque is impressive, and I don't get impressed easily.

 

If you must have a truck, I'll buy that reason ... for now 

[JBChiangRai]

I read that it's even worse in America, people "key" Tesla's for no reason, they cut them off on the highways.

 

There is not wanting an EV and then there are those that hate EV's, the only logical reason can be jealousy as they don't know the driver of the EV and that EV driver has done nothing wrong.

Edited December 15, 2023 by JBChiangRai
Spellong

[KhunLA]

Last page has a few of the EV fanboys lined up.  You'd have a hard time convincing us, we made the wrong decision buying an EV, after we've been driving for a while.  It's a learning process.

 

Are they perfect, of course not.  But the best thing on offer at the moment.  The future should even be better.

 

Think most of us, wouldn't even consider buying another ICEV in the future, I know I certainly wouldn't.  Those that still have, doubt will be replacing with another ICEV.  That's a bit telling in itself.

 

Hopefully those EV trucks will hit the market the next 5 years.

Edited December 15, 2023 by KhunLA

[Bandersnatch]

26 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Last page has a few of the EV fanboys lined up.  You'd have a hard time convincing us, we made the wrong decision buying an EV, after we've been driving for a while.  It's a learning process.

 

Are they perfect, of course not.  But the best thing on offer at the moment.  The future should even be better.

 

Think most of us, wouldn't even consider buying another ICEV in the future, I know I certainly wouldn't.  Those that still have, doubt will be replacing with another ICEV.  That's a bit telling in itself.

 

Hopefully those EV trucks will hit the market the next 5 years.

 

 

Buy an ICE after owning 2 electric cars?

 

No way

 

I love being able to charge it at home for free from excess solar power

I like that it comes with 6 Tesla powerwalls of backup power for my house

I love the instant torque

I love the 0-100km/h in 3.8 seconds without spinning my wheels 

I love that it has perfect 50:50 weight distribution

I love that it has an incredible low centre of gravity and goes round corners like it’s on rails

I love the drag coefficient of just 0.219 Cd which is better than a Porsche Taycan

I love the regenerative breaking and not having to use the break pedal

I love the adaptive suspension

I love that the battery pack is a structural component, increasing torsional stiffness and so increasing handling limits

I love the Torque vectoring which sends power to which wheel needs it most

I love that it only has one gear  

I love that it has long wheel base

I love that it so silent to drive for me and other road users

I love that I not poisoning the pedestrians and motorbike riders around me when I drive

I love being able to switch on the aircon while I’m still in the restaurant 

[Lee65]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

I love the regenerative breaking and not having to use the break pedal

 

Truth slipping out?  

[Lee65]

Here are alleged a few "Problems with EVs":

 

https://www.youtube.com/@MGUYTV/videos

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, Lee65 said:

Here are alleged a few "Problems with EVs":

 

https://www.youtube.com/@MGUYTV/videos

 

Posts a Clickbate YouTuber as “Evidence”  

 

 

 

 

[josephbloggs]

11 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Posts a Clickbate YouTuber as “Evidence”  

 

 

 

 

What's your problem? He looks completely impartial to me.

 

 

[HighPriority]

RANGE ANXIETY !!
RANGE ANXIETY !!

 

https://thedriven.io/2023/12/15/record-broken-as-ev-enthusiast-rocks-around-australia-in-just-10-days/amp/?fbclid=IwAR3rh7VQ9tu9hRtdLZByZSxv7XN5Q5QLdNwJABfYKeVYUaXeL6Wt1I7BZT8_aem_AZsr3qVzvJenwiaGIqgGlOdTeFocJRkMjg4L_p8sf69ZjxrbhUXMay6pKYFUBRHRiaY

 

Umm, what’s range anxiety ?

[Stevemercer]

On 12/14/2023 at 12:11 PM, BKKBike09 said:

 

That would be a good system.

 

I suspect that - as EVs become more and more popular - the resale value of mass market used vehicles will drop like a stone. Being an EV owner (a BYD Atto) I hope I'm wrong, of course, but seems to me that battery/charging technology is developing so fast that - as with phones and computers - the base price may not change much but the spec will change hugely. 

 

Atto cost me THB 1.2 million for a 60kw/h battery that gives around 400 km real world range and can charge at just under 90 kwh.

 

If I want to sell when it's three years old, I'd say a guesstimate for market value of a 1.2 million ICE at that point would be around 7-800K. Question will be if I ask that for my EV, what will be a prospective buyer's options in terms of a new EV market for that sort of price - probably quite a few cars with bigger batteries, more range and faster charging. We shall see.

 

 

 

 

I agree. EV and battery technologies are still at least 5 years off plateauing. Every year will see higher capacity batteries and efficiency gains. I think a 100kw/h battery will be standard within 2 years and will have comparable range to a typical IC car. That's when I might think about jumping onboard.

[KhunLA]

What problems 😂

[Lee65]

8 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Posts a Clickbate YouTuber as “Evidence”  

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, your slip is showing yet again: I didn't say anything about "Evidence".  Nice try though.  Not really.

 

Keep telling yourself how great the time bombs EVs next to your house are.  Will keep your mind off these images.

 

I recommend you not click on that link.

 

[BKKBike09]

6 hours ago, Stevemercer said:

I agree. EV and battery technologies are still at least 5 years off plateauing. Every year will see higher capacity batteries and efficiency gains. I think a 100kw/h battery will be standard within 2 years and will have comparable range to a typical IC car. That's when I might think about jumping onboard.

 

Actually a lighter weight and smaller battery would be fine, if the technology gives greater range potential per kw/h and it charges fast. A - say - 40 kw/h battery that can do 300 km and charge 20-80% in 5 mins would be great.

 

The whole 'range anxiety' thing does get a bit overblown; for me, the issue is not 'anxiety' but more the practical side of not being able to just jump in the car and head off on a long journey. If my ICE only has a quarter tank it's very easy to just pop in to a filling station. If my EV only has 25% SOC, I have no option but to go out and find a free fast charger, and then sit around for 40 mins or so once at the charger. Home charging is great overnight but no help in this situation.

 

 

[Lee65]

8 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

What's your problem? He looks completely impartial to me.

 

Wrong.  He's not impartial.  He doesn't like EVs.

 

Now if you want "impartial", try Bandersnatch or KhunLA.

[BritManToo]

8 hours ago, Lee65 said:

Wrong.  He's not impartial.  He doesn't like EVs.

Now if you want "impartial", try Bandersnatch or KhunLA.

Fanboys does not equate to impartial.

The problem with EVs is they're too expensive.

I can get a decent s/h pickup for 300-400kbht, I'd be happy for it to be an EV, but only ICE is available.

[Gweiloman]

10 hours ago, Lee65 said:

 

Actually, your slip is showing yet again: I didn't say anything about "Evidence".  Nice try though.  Not really.

 

Keep telling yourself how great the time bombs EVs next to your house are.  Will keep your mind off these images.

 

I recommend you not click on that link.

 

Yes, some EVs have caught on fire. I wonder what the reason could be. It could be caused by overly spirited driving causing the traction battery to overheat while at the same time, the BMS not functioning correctly. I hope this is so as I would then not have to worry as I’m a rather sedate driver.

 

Have you ever heard of a house fire caused by gas leaking? Ever heard of a fire in a petrol station? Ever heard of an airplane crashing? Does that mean you won’t have a gas stove at home, won’t fill up at a petrol station and won’t take a plane ride?

 

Out of curiosity, what is your opposition to EVs? Is it jealousy as proposed by some? Or the supposedly extremely polluting manufacture of the traction battery? Or the alleged exploitation of child labour in Congo? Or the drain on the electricity grid? Or the possibility that China (God forbid) will dominate the automotive industry thus leading to the spread of authoritarian communist regimes throughout the world? Or the smooth and comfortable ride that @BritManToo 300k baht pickup may have been capable of, once upon a time, 15 years ago?

[stratocaster]

EV fanboys in the UK are called EVangelists.

Definition. A person who seeks to convert others to the EV faith especially by public preaching.