Thailand to move away from foreign tourism and rely more on home travellers in the latest TAT masterplan

[Highlandman]

12 hours ago, Captor said:

Just fix the air pollution and the tourists will come back. Why do tourists want to travel with family to a country with dangerous air?

 

Look like TAT don't want see the elephant in the room

Lol. Most tourists aren't even aware of that issue. Fixing scams, eliminating or at least reducing dual pricing and improving tourist safety would certainly increase tourist confidence enough to bring back visitors in large numbers.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Highlandman

[Highlandman]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

I actually wasn't being facetious and asked how you would do it, as TAT doesn't seem to know. They merely make pronouncements, not actual plans.

 

Also, full hotels during your trip doesn't mean anything, as how filled were they with Thais in 2019? 2018? The same?

 

Before I moved to Thailand I regularly came as a tourist and traveled everywhere. Hotels were generally pretty full with Thai people in places like Korat, Lampang, Maesai, Nong Khai, even Pattaya on weekends. Rooms were dear. I assume that was factored into that 8%, so I really don't know how it could jump to 12% as well as replace the (likely higher) spending of int'l tourists. The fact that Thailand is looking for ways to juice the economy (tourism being one way) suggests to me that many Thais are not doing well financially (by definition not everyone can do well in a weak economy), so increasing domestic tourim numbers over what happened in pre-Covid years---when the economy was better---is not an easy task.

Pattaya has always been dominated by foreigners except during Covid.

 

The other cities you've mentioned aren't even known by foreigners, hence why Thais always greatly outnumber foreigners there except for Mae Sai, which sees plenty of cross border traffic from Myanmar and thus probably has almost as many Burmese visitors as Thais. However, other than a few Chinese, you're unlikely to see any other nationalities there now, especially with the border being closed to foreigners, thus meaning few reasons to go there.

[Highlandman]

2 hours ago, harada said:

But the rich Chinese hordes are on the way, they’re just waiting for the high speed train.

Lol. Much faster to come by plane. I like high speed trains too, but unless one has a fear of flying, they're going to continue flying rather than catching a train, which takes far too long for most short term tourists with little time.

[Highlandman]

8 hours ago, AsiaCheese said:

 

Plenty of BKK number plates in Pattaya every weekend, and triple that on long weekends, despite the well-planned road constructions during high season that turn already clogged traffic into a nightmare.

72% of all license plates in the country are Bangkok registrations. Many rental cars that are rented in Pattaya have "Krungthep Mahanakorn" [Bangkok] plates. On any given day in any location in Thailand, a good percentage of the vehicles you'll see have Bangkok license plates so your observations mean nothing in terms of where visitors are coming from. Pattaya tourism is driven by foreigners. The only exception to this was during Covid. Once July 2022 came around, foreigners started outnumbering Thais again.

[Highlandman]

12 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Ironically they do the opposite, a discount price on hotel rooms for Thais and a higher price for foreigners, or so it is claimed by many here.

That's not true at all. A few hotels offering residents promotions (which expats are eligible for) doesn't constitute dual pricing. The vast majority of hotels in Thailand do NOT engage in this practice. Those that do, like I said, extend the lower price to expats as well, but often it means a basic hotel room without breakfast and other perks.

 

A totally different story to tourist sites, national parks etc. Which not only practice dual pricing actively but generally don't grant expats the local price (except at privately run places).

[Highlandman]

11 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Taxi's refusing to use their meters in tourist areas; dual pricing on hotel rooms, foreigners vs locals; dual pricing on tourist attractions and parks, and probably a bunch more.

Nope. Essentially no dual pricing at hotel rooms. Dual pricing at tourist attractions including national parks, museums, zoos etc? - absolutely. This is a huge one.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Highlandman said:

That's not true at all. A few hotels offering residents promotions (which expats are eligible for) doesn't constitute dual pricing. The vast majority of hotels in Thailand do NOT engage in this practice. Those that do, like I said, extend the lower price to expats as well, but often it means a basic hotel room without breakfast and other perks.

 

A totally different story to tourist sites, national parks etc. Which not only practice dual pricing actively but generally don't grant expats the local price (except at privately run places).

Well I agree with you but when I tried to suggest that was the case recently, hoards of posters insisted that hotel rooms were dual priced. Personally, I've not seen any evidence of that in 21 years here but what do I know.

[UbonEagle]

With rising inflation and cost of living, I doubt Thailand is alone in seeing a drop in tourism 

people are finally waking up tightening their belt and living within their means, I think Covid was bit of catalyst for that with it being first real crisis a lot of younger people had experienced 

 

saying that a lot of the systematic things like visas etc in Thailand don’t help but it is doubtless still a very popular holiday option for many people 

[newnative]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Even in 2019 at 1 million, as percentage of 39 million, that's still only the same 2.5%. In relative terms, the UK contribution to tourism is not meaningful. The ranking number means nothing, the number of visitors tells the story.

       The number of visitors tells just part of the story.  European visitors, including the UK, spend 68,000 baht per tourist vs. around 41,000 baht for ASEAN tourists.  Smaller numbers but larger spending.  They also stay longer. 

      Of course, larger numbers, even with smaller spends, are going to be the most important--no argument there, and I've said just that a number of times.  10 million Chinese spending 49,000 baht each in 2019.   Easy to see why Thailand wants this market back.

      Obviously, some markets are going to be much more important than others.  I think its inaccurate, though, to say, as you do, that the UK's contribution in 2019 of 1 million tourists to Thai tourism is so small it's 'not part of the equation'.   

     Using your reasoning, in 2019 only 2 countries would actually qualify to be 'part of the equation', China and Malaysia.  All the other countries sent less than 2 million visitors, numbers too small to, apparently, bother with. 

     Except, the numbers do add up, and the spending.  In 2019, Asian tourists, not including China, spent the most money in Thailand, 677 billion baht.  China was next, with 543 billion.  In third, Europe, including the UK, with 461 billion--not the most but certainly not nothing.  Perhaps even 'meaningful'.

      It's a bit like my stock portfolio.  I have 30 dividend stocks, paying varying percentages in dividends, some more, some less.  Together, they earn me about $11,000 a year.  Some, of course, make a more important dividend contribution but all of them are 'part of the equation'.

     

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, newnative said:

       The number of visitors tells just part of the story.  European visitors, including the UK, spend 68,000 baht per tourist vs. around 41,000 baht for ASEAN tourists.  Smaller numbers but larger spending.  They also stay longer. 

      Of course, larger numbers, even with smaller spends, are going to be the most important--no argument there, and I've said just that a number of times.  10 million Chinese spending 49,000 baht each in 2019.   Easy to see why Thailand wants this market back.

      Obviously, some markets are going to be much more important than others.  I think its inaccurate, though, to say, as you do, that the UK's contribution in 2019 of 1 million tourists to Thai tourism is so small it's 'not part of the equation'.   

     Using your reasoning, in 2019 only 2 countries would actually qualify to be 'part of the equation', China and Malaysia.  All the other countries sent less than 2 million visitors, numbers too small to, apparently, bother with. 

     Except, the numbers do add up, and the spending.  In 2019, Asian tourists, not including China, spent the most money in Thailand, 677 billion baht.  China was next, with 543 billion.  In third, Europe, including the UK, with 461 billion--not the most but certainly not nothing.  Perhaps even 'meaningful'.

      It's a bit like my stock portfolio.  I have 30 dividend stocks, paying varying percentages in dividends, some more, some less.  Together, they earn me about $11,000 a year.  Some, of course, make a more important dividend contribution but all of them are 'part of the equation'.

     

If you're TAT, where and how are you going to spend your budget, on which countries?

[Elkski]

Recently on another thread a couple guys posted experience with thai people masking up as they walked by then demasking.  The 5 taxis in a row at the taxi que at terminal 21 who refused my thai wife and I fares is a story I share with  every interested American contemplating a trip to Thailand.  I also tell them about the choking air during high season, the trash just tossed on the mostly unwalkable for elderly sidewalks each afternoon. I also tell them how deadly the roads are and the crosswalks dont mean anything.   I tell everyone to boycott redbull and the full story. I tell them about the corruption at every corner. I tell them about the fake beggars on the dirty streets. 

For a country so dependant on tourism you would be smarter how they treat tourists.  

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Elkski

[Barnet1900]

14 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

The "local tourists" with money are travelling to other countries... why would they travel to destinations in Thailand that really do not welcome Thais as their guests?

Why would anybody want to come here right now?

 

Nothing has improved. Nothing new to come and see. All the places that did attract tourists have been exploited by greedy, corrupt Thais. Far better countries to visit for quality tourists.

 

The hand that fed them from the start was deemed to be dirty and so rejected and their complete and utter ignorance didn't allow them to see that quality tourists will wander the globe thus getting bored of Thailand pretty soon.

 

I've said it countless times. You were blessed with this country you were born into yet you've cut the goose open far too many times and rather than stitch it back up you find blame in everybody but yourselves. Grow up and face the music.

[newnative]

28 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

If you're TAT, where and how are you going to spend your budget, on which countries?

      I, for one, don't see much of a need for TAT.  I've said before that my spouse and I have never decided to visit any country because of anythng done by any country's tourist department.  We've been to China 3 times--never seen a single ad or promotion for China.  We want to visit, so we do.  Same for Europe, Australia, Japan, etc.  If we want to learn about a country or an area of a country, there are usually plenty of Youtube videos.  

     If you held a gun to my head and forced me to choose, I'd look at the 2015 to 2019 tourist data.  Asian numbers expanded qute a bit in those years, western numbers mostly made just modest gains, with Australia and Singapore dropping slightly.  I think the Asian numbers will take care of themselves.  Since I think its a good thing for a tourist country like Thailand to have a diverse tourist demographic, and it's perhaps a harder sale to attract long distance tourists, I'd concentrate the budget on those countries, with perhaps some of the budget used for untapped markets.

 

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Energy prices declining despite the fact that the oil cartel is cutting production is a bad sign, it should be rising

That is actually a good sign. OPEC was trying to boost prices to benefit some of its members financially who are experiencing declining GDP such as Russia and blackmail pro-Israel countries to force Israel from seized lands. The energy producing nonmembers such as energy independent US have at least in the short term neutralized OPEC. 

[natway09]

Did someone think to tell her that 78% of Thais live from their small salary month by month & that many have 

HP or mortgages to pay so you will need to discount hotel rooms a lot more (& they are already cheap)

In reality I am surprised just how much Thais do travel but again, did someone think to tell TAT that the Thais travelling internally will not help Thailands balance of payment nor foreign reserves, so Thailand sinks deeper into the bog

[JackGats]

Domestic tourism in Thailand fills hotels ... on week-ends and holidays. On week-days hotels stay empty without foreign tourists.

[Mike Lister]

3 hours ago, newnative said:

      I, for one, don't see much of a need for TAT.  I've said before that my spouse and I have never decided to visit any country because of anythng done by any country's tourist department.  We've been to China 3 times--never seen a single ad or promotion for China.  We want to visit, so we do.  Same for Europe, Australia, Japan, etc.  If we want to learn about a country or an area of a country, there are usually plenty of Youtube videos.  

     If you held a gun to my head and forced me to choose, I'd look at the 2015 to 2019 tourist data.  Asian numbers expanded qute a bit in those years, western numbers mostly made just modest gains, with Australia and Singapore dropping slightly.  I think the Asian numbers will take care of themselves.  Since I think its a good thing for a tourist country like Thailand to have a diverse tourist demographic, and it's perhaps a harder sale to attract long distance tourists, I'd concentrate the budget on those countries, with perhaps some of the budget used for untapped markets.

 

Every country has a body that is similar to TAT which markets inbound tourism. In the UK its Visit Britain, in the US it's the Travel and Tourism Board, in France it's the French Tourism Office, and so on. I think you don't understand the need for such bodies nor what they actually do and how useful it is, or how much income they generate for a country. If they didn't do that, they wouldn't exist!

[Phil1964]

Right Thailand listen up.

Your country is expensive for us Europeans to fly too. Since 2019 average airfares have doubled after the pandemic and still.remain so, eg: In August 2023 I paid £1,100 to fly Eva LHR > BKK return. In contrast in June and September and November 2019 on all 3 occasions I paid under £600 rerurn to fly with Emirates from Birmingham to BKK, (car parking and fuel to Birmingham airport was half the cost of going via Heathrow for me too).

When we get there hotels are similarly 2 to 3 times 2019 prices. Plus many hotels look nice on Agoda etc but when you arrive they are tatty, tired and dirty because Thais don't seem to.understand the point of maintenance and reinvesting, (to keep up with the times)!

Food in restaurants is expensive now, comparable to UK prices in 2019, (ok inflation in UK has increased our prices).

Tours and excursions are expensive.

Driving is bad for your stress as all Thais think.all roads are Silverstone / Le Mans.

Thai Beer is frankly awful. I realused how bad in 2023 compared to.all the micro brewery offers we have in the UK now.

Okay your girls are pretty but I have had one for 5.5 years and just f****d her off because she and her 11 year old daughter were both schizophrenic utter psychopaths.

You can't have a life remotely resembling any independence when you shag a Thai girl and what money you had before she bleeds out of you like a leech, then once it's obvious you are running on empty you will find her swapping phone numbers down the gym, outside the school gates and with the white van.who pips his horn at her when passing. 

Avoid!

 

 

[soalbundy]

7 hours ago, Srikcir said:

That is actually a good sign. OPEC was trying to boost prices to benefit some of its members financially who are experiencing declining GDP such as Russia and blackmail pro-Israel countries to force Israel from seized lands. The energy producing nonmembers such as energy independent US have at least in the short term neutralized OPEC. 

I disagree, the price depends on supply and demand, as demand fell in the US and elsewhere causing prices to fall OPEC decided to cut supply in the expectation this would raise prices but prices still fell because demand (chiefly from car owners) wasn't there, it wasn't there because the public lacks cash to buy. What the supply cuts have done is reduce energy for industry. The reason Germany has entered recession is due to the lack of cheap plentiful supply of energy from Russia. As the major world economies enter recession industry cuts back on production as demand for products falls which causes unemployment which further reduces demand, a vicious cycle that OPEC has only made worse.

[newnative]

16 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

So how did those 70,089 visitors get here, did they walk!

The majority likely came in the first quarter of 2020.  The country was still open in the first quarter, flights were suspended on Apr. 4.

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, newnative said:

The majority likely came in the first quarter of 2020.  The country was still open in the first quarter, flights were suspended on Apr. 4.

But the metrics are exactly the same, flights opened, 2.5%, flights closed for 9 months, still 2.5%. 

 

OK, I accept you argument that the cumulative effect of lots of 2.5% ers from different countries, do add up. As much as anything I'm playing devils advocate on this in order to reinforce the fact that Western expats, in particular Brits, are not the salvation of the Thai tourist industry, which many posters seem to think they are. The reality is that Asian expats are the Thai's target market, they are the bread and butter of the industry whilst a smattering of westerners provide greater profit per capita but will never be in the majority, or even close to it.

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Also, full hotels during your trip doesn't mean anything, as how filled were they with Thais in 2019? 2018? The same?

You missed the point. They do make plans and schemes that work, but never in the eyes of this forum.

I think it was back in 2013 when TAT said they would be moving away from western tourists because of the bad behavior, nobody ever mentions that.

[kinyara]

We're almost at the stage, January 2024 onwards, where you can actually measure country by country arrival growth or decline between comparable months of the post-pandemic years, i.e. Jan 2023 vs Jan 2024 forward. We've had 6 pages of the usual individual theories sprinkled with personal bug-bears which are all very predictable, it will be far more interesting and relevant to me at least whether and to what extent arrivals wise they actually translate into reality.

 

Will Thailand be able to grow individual country numbers from 2023 to 2024 against a challenging world economic backdrop, if they do then that suggests to me foreign tourism is far from in the death spiral the majority on here seem to think it is. 

 

 

[ChipButty]

A friend of mine landed in Phuket with Qatar he said it was full 

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

A friend of mine landed in Phuket with Qatar he said it was full 

My flights from north China to BKK are also generally full.  There's just a lot fewer flights to choose from.

 

I'm wondering how focusing on domestic tourism helps trade balance.

Edited December 14, 2023 by impulse

[Expat68]

8 minutes ago, impulse said:

My flights from north China to BKK are also generally full.  There's just a lot fewer flights to choose from.

 

I'm wondering how focusing on domestic tourism helps trade balance.

Hotels, local restaurants? I do not live in tourist citys and I can tell you the locals are struggling. I have lived in my city for 14 years and theft is on the increase, the large supermarkets now have CCTV in car parks, failing that they have security, this is the first time ever

[El Matador]

BTW any news about the 60 days visa exemption they talked about?

 

It seems a bit late now. Maybe I should ask my buddy Putin if he could provide me a Russian passport instead ?

[StayinThailand2much]

Welcome to Thailand, where we blame everyone and everything, but never ourselves (and our incompetence)...

 

How dare Chinese and Western tourists not to come (or send their money)? - Hospitality is something else, and people who have been to the Land of Sc**s know that, choosing other destinations instead.

[Seeall]

23 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

I wouldn't be surprised. Salivating, while punching 27 million × 4 into their calculator - voila, 4x the money...

t how they think, like a BG .. ohhh not much income = easy just double it .... ohhh no income now = no b******s

[metisdead]

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