Statins stimulate atherosclerosis and heart failure: pharmacological mechanisms

[connda]

Well this sucks. 
This recent research infers that the Statins people take for high cholesterol may in fact be responsible for creating the conditions for coronary artery calcification.

The bad news:
Statins stimulate atherosclerosis and heart failure: pharmacological mechanisms
In contrast to the current belief that cholesterol reduction with statins decreases
atherosclerosis, we present a perspective that statins may be causative in coronary artery
calcification and can function as mitochondrial toxins that impair muscle function in the heart
and blood vessels through the depletion of coenzyme Q10 and ‘heme A’, and thereby ATP
generation. Statins inhibit the synthesis of vitamin K2, the cofactor for matrix Gla-protein
activation, which in turn protects arteries from calcification. Statins inhibit the biosynthesis of
selenium containing proteins, one of which is glutathione peroxidase serving to suppress
peroxidative stress. An impairment of selenoprotein biosynthesis may be a factor in congestive
heart failure, reminiscent of the dilated cardiomyopathies seen with selenium deficiency.
Thus, the epidemic of heart failure and atherosclerosis that plagues the modern world may
paradoxically be aggravated by the pervasive use of statin drugs. We propose that current
statin treatment guidelines be critically reevaluated
https://cardiacos.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/2015-Statins-stimulate-atherosclerosis-and-heart-failure-pharmacological-mechanisms.pdf

The good news?  There are ways to mitigate the damage.  Happy reading.

[scubascuba3]

So getting a better diet is the solution for most

[billd766]

23 minutes ago, connda said:

Well this sucks. 
This recent research infers that the Statins people take for high cholesterol may in fact be responsible for creating the conditions for coronary artery calcification.

The bad news:
Statins stimulate atherosclerosis and heart failure: pharmacological mechanisms
In contrast to the current belief that cholesterol reduction with statins decreases
atherosclerosis, we present a perspective that statins may be causative in coronary artery
calcification and can function as mitochondrial toxins that impair muscle function in the heart
and blood vessels through the depletion of coenzyme Q10 and ‘heme A’, and thereby ATP
generation. Statins inhibit the synthesis of vitamin K2, the cofactor for matrix Gla-protein
activation, which in turn protects arteries from calcification. Statins inhibit the biosynthesis of
selenium containing proteins, one of which is glutathione peroxidase serving to suppress
peroxidative stress. An impairment of selenoprotein biosynthesis may be a factor in congestive
heart failure, reminiscent of the dilated cardiomyopathies seen with selenium deficiency.
Thus, the epidemic of heart failure and atherosclerosis that plagues the modern world may
paradoxically be aggravated by the pervasive use of statin drugs. We propose that current
statin treatment guidelines be critically reevaluated
https://cardiacos.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/2015-Statins-stimulate-atherosclerosis-and-heart-failure-pharmacological-mechanisms.pdf

The good news?  There are ways to mitigate the damage.  Happy reading.

The most important word in that report is may, not definitely does or does not, but it may in some cases.

[Sheryl]

24 minutes ago, billd766 said:

The most important word in that report is may, not definitely does or does not, but it may in some cases.

Yes. Needs further study.

 

Should note that multiple random controlled studies have shown that statin use by people with diagnosed coronary artery disease  (found significantly decreased morbidity and mortality  related to coronary events.   https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/217193

 

Statin use by people who do not have CAD is more controversial especially for borderline lipid levels.

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

So getting a better diet is the solution for most

Yep, but expensive, a Swiss fondue for two costs about 1500 Bahts, can't afford more than a couple a week.

[CanadaSam]

I am amazed at the prevalence of meat in the Thai diet, it seems that everywhere, everyone eats loads of pork, chicken, and very little veggies, IMO.

[scubascuba3]

31 minutes ago, CanadaSam said:

I am amazed at the prevalence of meat in the Thai diet, it seems that everywhere, everyone eats loads of pork, chicken, and very little veggies, IMO.

maybe why bowel cancer rates seem high, lack of fibre in the diet

[Luuk Chaai]

15 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

maybe why bowel cancer rates seem high, lack of fibre in the diet

Negative .....    Fibre is not needed for a proper Human Diet

                         Statins are not your friend   

                          The entire carb / grain / veggie  sugar (don't forget the poison seed oils )  are part of the Kellog's / Morman bought and paid for lie

 

                          Human's thrive on carnivorous diets  "Saturated fat's " are your real friend .. eat beef !

                          Start out with BBBB  (0" carbs ) Beef Butter Bacon Eggs for 60 days ..  then go get your bloodwork rechecked

                          Amazing.  how getting back to nature heals the body 

                           

[save the frogs]

Yep, sth's up with statins.

 

If you take the Red Pill, try not to choke on it. 

 

[tandor]

16 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

maybe why bowel cancer rates seem high, lack of fibre in the diet

Thais eat a wide range of fruits all year round, and if not incorporated in their main dish it is always offered as a dessert.

Mr. Google says this:   The incidence rate of colorectal cancer in Thailand is low when compared with other countries. It is the third in frequency in males after liver and bile duct and lung cancers, and the fifth after cancers of the cervix, breast, liver and bile duct and lung for females.

[Muhendis]

18 hours ago, connda said:

https://cardiacos.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/2015-Statins-stimulate-atherosclerosis-and-heart-failure-pharmacological-mechanisms.pdf

I have just read the full article and am satisfied that good procedures have been followed.

There is now a big question mark left hanging over the general use of statins for seemingly otherwise healthy individuals.

In the article, emphasis was placed on the independence of the scientists. 

Pharmaceutical companies go to great lengths to promote their products and I have reason to believe hospitals and doctors are far from independent from their influence.

We may not be in much mortal danger from from unnecessary use of statins but the reasons for having them prescribed may probably also include financial gain.

 

[Irish star]

17 hours ago, CanadaSam said:

I am amazed at the prevalence of meat in the Thai diet, it seems that everywhere, everyone eats loads of pork, chicken, and very little veggies, IMO.

Veggies too much pesticides they know 

[save the frogs]

19 hours ago, connda said:

This recent research infers that the Statins people take for high cholesterol

Cholesterol is one of the most complex / tricky / confusing topics. 

 

People who live long have been found to have .... HIGH levels of cholesterol.

 

It's not the cholesterol in the bloostream that needs to be lowered, it's the plaque in the arteries.

 

Which are two separate things. 

 

Anyway, complex conversation and I think it will be way over people's heads because we're all brainwashed with this topic. 

 

[flexomike]

22 hours ago, connda said:

Well this sucks. 
This recent research infers that the Statins people take for high cholesterol may in fact be responsible for creating the conditions for coronary artery calcification.

The bad news:
Statins stimulate atherosclerosis and heart failure: pharmacological mechanisms
In contrast to the current belief that cholesterol reduction with statins decreases
atherosclerosis, we present a perspective that statins may be causative in coronary artery
calcification and can function as mitochondrial toxins that impair muscle function in the heart
and blood vessels through the depletion of coenzyme Q10 and ‘heme A’, and thereby ATP
generation. Statins inhibit the synthesis of vitamin K2, the cofactor for matrix Gla-protein
activation, which in turn protects arteries from calcification. Statins inhibit the biosynthesis of
selenium containing proteins, one of which is glutathione peroxidase serving to suppress
peroxidative stress. An impairment of selenoprotein biosynthesis may be a factor in congestive
heart failure, reminiscent of the dilated cardiomyopathies seen with selenium deficiency.
Thus, the epidemic of heart failure and atherosclerosis that plagues the modern world may
paradoxically be aggravated by the pervasive use of statin drugs. We propose that current
statin treatment guidelines be critically reevaluated
https://cardiacos.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/2015-Statins-stimulate-atherosclerosis-and-heart-failure-pharmacological-mechanisms.pdf

The good news?  There are ways to mitigate the damage.  Happy reading.

Guess I am screwed, been on Statins for about twenty years 

[5davidhen1]

Having been diagnosed with high cholesterol and put on a special diet, it was decided that, unfortunately, I am one of those people whose body manufactures too much cholesterol, regardless of diet. I was therefore put on Simvastatin which has successfully controlled my cholesterol for MORE THAN 30 YEARS!

About 10 years ago, having read some bad press regarding statins, not dissimilar to the content in this thread, I visited my GP, expressing my concerns. Her reply to me was "What do you want to die of!"

 

[scubascuba3]

5 hours ago, Luuk Chaai said:

Negative .....    Fibre is not needed for a proper Human Diet

                         Statins are not your friend   

                          The entire carb / grain / veggie  sugar (don't forget the poison seed oils )  are part of the Kellog's / Morman bought and paid for lie

 

                          Human's thrive on carnivorous diets  "Saturated fat's " are your real friend .. eat beef !

                          Start out with BBBB  (0" carbs ) Beef Butter Bacon Eggs for 60 days ..  then go get your bloodwork rechecked

                          Amazing.  how getting back to nature heals the body 

                           

come back to the table in a few years when the toxins have built up and you're sick

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, tandor said:

Thais eat a wide range of fruits all year round, and if not incorporated in their main dish it is always offered as a dessert.

Mr. Google says this:   The incidence rate of colorectal cancer in Thailand is low when compared with other countries. It is the third in frequency in males after liver and bile duct and lung cancers, and the fifth after cancers of the cervix, breast, liver and bile duct and lung for females.

2nd in 2021, 19% for males. Some thais may eat a range of fruit and veg but many are happy with rice and meat

 

https://www.nci.go.th/th/cancer_record/cancer_rec1.html

[roquefort]

6 hours ago, Muhendis said:

Pharmaceutical companies go to great lengths to promote their products and I have reason to believe hospitals and doctors are far from independent from their influence.

We may not be in much mortal danger from from unnecessary use of statins but the reasons for having them prescribed may probably also include financial gain.

 

You have hit the nail on the head, sir. Qui bono?

 

The UK NHS lowered its threshold for cholesterol levels a few years ago. From being below the threshold, I was suddenly redesignated as 'at risk' and put on statins. When I found out how much of my GP's revenue comes from prescribing such drugs I took myself off them. And have stayed off them (and healthy) ever since.

 

[newnative]

2 minutes ago, 5davidhen1 said:

Having been diagnosed with high cholesterol and put on a special diet, it was decided that, unfortunately, I am one of those people whose body manufactures too much cholesterol, regardless of diet. I was therefore put on Simvastatin which has successfully controlled my cholesterol for MORE THAN 30 YEARS!

About 10 years ago, having read some bad press regarding statins, not dissimilar to the content in this thread, I visited my GP, expressing my concerns. Her reply to me was "What do you want to die of!"

 

     I'm in the same boat and I'm curious as to whether you have had a CAC (Coronary Artery Calcium) test and, if so, what your score was.  Like you, I have been taking a statin for high cholesterol for at least 20 years, which has kept my cholesterol within normal ranges.   At my last physical, the doctor gave me a CAC test, which I don't believe I have ever had before, even though I have high cholesterol.

     My reading on the CAC test was 433, which is considered very high.  Zero to 100 is the normal range.  I've since had an MRI, which indicated my heart arteries have blockages but are not severe enough to need stents at this point.  I had not yet seen this posted article with new research on statins or I would have ran it by my heart doctor when I had the MRI. 

    I find myself questioning the effectiveness of statins since I ended up with blocked arteries anyway after taking statins for at least 20 years.  While the statin kept my cholesterol in the normal range, it apparently did little or nothing, in my case, to prevent the buildup of calcium in my arteries.  Or, perhaps the buildup could have been worse.  Color me confused at this point.

[Red Forever]

7 hours ago, Luuk Chaai said:

Negative .....    Fibre is not needed for a proper Human Diet

                         Statins are not your friend   

                          The entire carb / grain / veggie  sugar (don't forget the poison seed oils )  are part of the Kellog's / Morman bought and paid for lie

 

                          Human's thrive on carnivorous diets  "Saturated fat's " are your real friend .. eat beef !

                          Start out with BBBB  (0" carbs ) Beef Butter Bacon Eggs for 60 days ..  then go get your bloodwork rechecked

                          Amazing.  how getting back to nature heals the body .

                           

So, eating vegetables (home grown) isn't "getting back to nature" on your planet then?

[Red Forever]

12 years ago in Thailand I went for a full check up at the local hospital.

All was ok but my bad cholesterol was just above the safe zone so doc put me on statins for 3 months.

On return the doctor was very pleased with the result.

I wasn't happy though. I'd read articles advising caution with statin use. 

I stopped forthwith and am relatively fit for age.

 

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

My reading on the CAC test was 433, which is considered very high.  Zero to 100 is the normal range.  I've since had an MRI, which indicated my heart arteries have blockages but are not severe enough to need stents at this point. 

Was this advice in Thailand? Good to hear if Thailand they weren't doing a sales job for stents

[VBF]

3 hours ago, 5davidhen1 said:

Having been diagnosed with high cholesterol and put on a special diet, it was decided that, unfortunately, I am one of those people whose body manufactures too much cholesterol, regardless of diet. I was therefore put on Simvastatin which has successfully controlled my cholesterol for MORE THAN 30 YEARS!

About 10 years ago, having read some bad press regarding statins, not dissimilar to the content in this thread, I visited my GP, expressing my concerns. Her reply to me was "What do you want to die of!"

 

Therein lies the rub!

I had high cholesterol and high BP which, stupidly, I basically ignored. Then I had a heart attack!

Now I'm on a Statin and several BP-reducing meds.  I get a blood test every year confirming that the meds are working, and not causing any bad effects to my liver, kidneys etc.

 

So my (possible) dilemma is do I stop taking the meds and risk another attack, or carry on and risk....something else????

As medical science advances, today's cures are sometimes discovered to cause more harm than good - as others have said this article says

 

".............we present a perspective that statins may be causative in coronary artery calcification........"

 

@Sheryl you confirmed it needs further study but what did you mean by your comment "Statin use by people who do not have CAD is more controversial especially for borderline lipid levels."?

And is the source of the OP considered to be reliable, would you say?

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, VBF said:

 

 

@Sheryl you confirmed it needs further study but what did you mean by your comment "Statin use by people who do not have CAD is more controversial especially for borderline lipid levels."? 

 

And is the source of the OP considered to be reliable, would you say?

I meant that use by people who do NOT have coronary artery disease is of less clear benefit. You DO have CAD and there is no question but that you should continue the prescribed statins. 

 

The source is a peer-reviewed journal. However the authors repeatedly stress that this is a hypothesis of what may  be the case.  It is a controversial article.

 

 

[Walker88]

30 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I meant that use by people who do NOT have coronary artery disease is of less clear benefit. You DO have CAD and there is no question but that you should continue the prescribed statins. 

 

The source is a peer-reviewed journal. However the authors repeatedly stress that this is a hypothesis of what may  be the case.  It is a controversial article.

 

 

Yes, there seems to be a big difference between statin use for folks with CAD and those without.

 

Coincidentally I just watched a YouTube video where Dr Andrew Huberman chats with Dr Robert Lustig. At one point Lustig says that studies show the average life expectancy increase for those without CAD who use statins vs those who don't is.......4 days.

 

Seems hardly worth it, except for shareholders of Big Pharma stocks.

 

So much research has been done in the last few years about cholesterol, and the 'accepted wisdom' has been turned on its head. Very little cholesterol results from diet, and most results from genetics. Also, there's no 'good' and 'bad' cholesterol, at least along the lines of the simple LDL/VLDL/HDL measures usually reported in typical bloodwork. It's ApoB that is key.

 

There also seems to be a negative correlation between very low cholesterol and cancer. Plus, most people do not know what cholesterol does and might be surprised to know both its function and that absent cholesterol, life expectancy is a billionth of a second (or less).

[newnative]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Was this advice in Thailand? Good to hear if Thailand they weren't doing a sales job for stents

Yes, Thailand.  Bangkok Hospital Pattaya and Bumrungrad in Bangkok.

[Mark Nothing]

I like straight answers, in simple language, that is simple to implement, and shows immediate positive benefits.  This opposite of this article's goal.

 

The Bible is my health inspiration.  In the Book of Genesis many of the characters lived to be over 900 years old.  So I studied what they did to try and replicate it.  This was a time when pharmaceutical companies speaking a foreign language, medicalese, did not exist.

 

First off was perfect diet, fruits, vegetables, seeds, nuts and pure rain water.  Food and water was free of synthetic inorganic minerals made in a laboratory like today.  My water distilling machine has a thick concrete like residue after distilling bottled water which appears similar to the arteriosclerosis hardening of the arteries cholsterol buildup.

 

The second important element was proper mental health free of worry allowing a fully functioning immune system.  The first characters in the Bible spoke and met directly with God.  This seemed to make them extremely healthy mentally allowing the immune system to operate at full power to eliminate any impurities clogging up the body.  So I implemented this practice to ask God to bless my food and keep my body healthy with a daily prayer.  

 

The ailments dissappeared, and full healthy life resulted. I equate medicalese language as a tiger ready to pounce on his prey.  So I run for cover when spotted and avoid it.

[billd766]

11 minutes ago, Mark Nothing said:

I like straight answers, in simple language, that is simple to implement, and shows immediate positive benefits.  This opposite of this article's goal.

 

The Bible is my health inspiration.  In the Book of Genesis many of the characters lived to be over 900 years old.  So I studied what they did to try and replicate it.  This was a time when pharmaceutical companies speaking a foreign language, medicalese, did not exist.

 

First off was perfect diet, fruits, vegetables, seeds, nuts and pure rain water.  Food and water was free of synthetic inorganic minerals made in a laboratory like today.  My water distilling machine has a thick concrete like residue after distilling bottled water which appears similar to the arteriosclerosis hardening of the arteries cholsterol buildup.

 

The second important element was proper mental health free of worry allowing a fully functioning immune system.  The first characters in the Bible spoke and met directly with God.  This seemed to make them extremely healthy mentally allowing the immune system to operate at full power to eliminate any impurities clogging up the body.  So I implemented this practice to ask God to bless my food and keep my body healthy with a daily prayer.  

 

The ailments dissappeared, and full healthy life resulted. I equate medicalese language as a tiger ready to pounce on his prey.  So I run for cover when spotted and avoid it.

If I were to take anybody's advice on this forum it would be Sheryl's and nobody else's.

 

She KNOWS what she is talking about whereas most of the posters only know about themselves and their problems.

 

If you were to line up and interview 10, 20 or more posters they may have similar problems, but their cures would be different. What works for one person, may not work for another or even anybody else, no matter what they believe or say.

[VBF]

7 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I meant that use by people who do NOT have coronary artery disease is of less clear benefit. You DO have CAD and there is no question but that you should continue the prescribed statins. 

 

The source is a peer-reviewed journal. However the authors repeatedly stress that this is a hypothesis of what may  be the case.  It is a controversial article.

 

Thank you - all very clear. 👍

 

Tbh, there's no way I'd alter my prescribed meds without consulting my GP / specialist. But I do think it behoves anyone with any medical condition to keep up to date on developments from reliable sources and then ask the pertinent questions. Had I been a little more assiduous 5 years ago, I may not  have had the attack at all 🙄

[JackGats]

On 12/18/2023 at 9:14 AM, CanadaSam said:

I am amazed at the prevalence of meat in the Thai diet, it seems that everywhere, everyone eats loads of pork, chicken, and very little veggies, IMO.

Where do you live? I find Thai food very low on proteins. Contains plenty of offal and skin though.

 

Anyway, only one third of blood cholesterol comes from the diet. The rest gets manufactured by the liver. Dieting can lower cholesterol only slightly.