Brexit has completely failed for UK, say clear majority of Britons – poll

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, zhounan said:

They mean majority of wealthy Britons 

Quite the contrary.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, RayC said:

 

It may be difficult but that is exactly what the various studies attempt to do. Imo the criticism of these studies is rarely more than a tautology: It's difficult to separate the effects of Brexit, therefore you can't conclude anything about the effects of Brexit.

 

Imo poor and lazy criticism.

 

 

The original report was indeed a few years ago but it is regularly updated.

 

 

I disagree. A few examples: The UK was one of the major influences in the formation of the Single Market and a strong supporter of the EU's attempts to forge trade deals. It can be argued be that the UK - together with France - largely dictated the EU foreign policy and diplomatic efforts. This was especially true when it came to defence issues.

 

 

It's true that with the expansion of the membership and more QMV, the influence of any one individual member state is lessened .... at least, in theory ...

but let's not pretend all member states are equal. France and Germany have more influence and power than Cyprus and Malta. When the UK was a member, it was one of the 'Big 3'.

 

Perhaps not. But the UK likes to think of itself as having a significant presence and influence on the world stage. In terms of size of the economy and population, the UK is somewhat smaller than Japan. As an individual nation, what real influence does Japan wield on the world state? 

 

Imo any influence that the UK had on the world stage was dependent on our membership of the larger bloc i.e. EU. Moreover, inside the EU we were of use to the US, outside of it less so.

 

 

I'm about to board a flight. You'll be pleased to know that I'll return to this point😂😉

 

Imo poor and lazy criticism - I wasn't actually criticizing rather pointing out a problem.

 

The original report was indeed a few years ago but it is regularly updated - I have not been directed to or following OBR reports. The OBR advertises itself as being independent but it was set up by a UK government, is funded by HM Treasury and led by ex Treasury and BoE people, supported by the CS. 

 

I disagree. A few examples: The UK was one of the major influences in the formation of the Single Market and a strong supporter of the EU's attempts to forge trade deals - but the UK was not a major influencer of the content of these deals and foreign and defence policies are not needed by pure trading blocs, rather by nation states. 

 

It's true that with the expansion of the membership and more QMV, the influence of any one individual member state is lessened .... at least, in theory ...- and in reality?

but let's not pretend all member states are equal - agree! 

France and Germany have more influence and power than Cyprus and Malta - er yes.

 When the UK was a member, it was one of the 'Big 3'. - but NOT a member of the biggest 2.

Perhaps not. But the UK likes to think of itself as having a significant presence and influence on the world stage. In terms of size of the economy and population, the UK is somewhat smaller than Japan. As an individual nation, what real influence does Japan wield on the world state? I take it that you mean stage? I don't agree with your version of what the UK '"likes". When the UK joined the "Common Market" there was no aspiration to wield influence around the world. The EU as a whole has never been strong enough to influence much of anything globally, as we have seen recently with Russia and Ukraine. 

 

Imo any influence that the UK had on the world stage was dependent on our membership of the larger bloc i.e. EU. Moreover, inside the EU we were of use to the US, outside of it less so. As you must have seen from recent events, the UK is still of far more "use" to the US than the EU is. I would call that poor and lazy criticism

 

Have a good flight.

[Hi from France]

On 1/1/2024 at 12:18 PM, placeholder said:

That's why it's best to look at their track record. And given that the polls seem to unanimously show Brexit is unpopular, your point seems untenable.

 

In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-poll/

 

There is no rejoin only a re-apply

 

and I'm not sure Europeans want to take in a member who contributes one third of what they do (France and Germany contribute 1% of their gdp to the EU budget , while Britain contributes 0,4-0,7%).

 

If Britain wants to reap the benefits of the single market it won't be free and it will have to follow the same market rules as we do

 

And even that won't go down as easily to the brexiteers as Trump tariffs did

 

 

 

 

 

[RubenRemus]

On 1/1/2024 at 5:49 PM, The Cyclist said:

Or

 

Brexit has failed because too many are still in shock that it actually happened, and are doing their utmost to ensure that it has no chance of success.

 

The only true path is to rejoin the EU in their warped minds.

Or that people realised they were lied to and now don't trust the experts not to be lying again?

[RayC]

5 hours ago, Hi from France said:

There is no rejoin only a re-apply

 

and I'm not sure Europeans want to take in a member who contributes one third of what they do (France and Germany contribute 1% of their gdp to the EU budget , while Britain contributes 0,4-0,7%).

 

If Britain wants to reap the benefits of the single market it won't be free and it will have to follow the same market rules as we do

 

And even that won't go down as easily to the brexiteers as Trump tariffs did

 

 

 

 

 

 

Imo the overwhelming majority of EU member states would welcome the UK's readmission. 

 

They would be foolish not to. Amongst other things, the UK is the world's 6th biggest economy (by GDP) and a significant military power in Europe.

 

To paraphrase Michel Barnier: 'There were no winners with Brexit'.

[simon43]

Although I supported Brexit, I think at the time of the vote, neither the general public nor government figures actually had thought through the consequences of a leave vote.  Had they considered all aspects of what would be affected by a leave vote, I think the public would have voted to remain.

 

IMHO, the reason why the UK fails or has a negative outcome for some many things is quite simple - we are too honest and we stick to the rules.  Other countries pick and choose only those requirements or laws that will benefit them, and 'fudge' or simply ignore the rules that won't benefit them.  The UK blindly follows each and every requirement, seemingly ignorant that other countries pick and choose.

 

Oh for another Maggie who stood up to EEC officials and stuck to her guns for the benefit of the UK!

[KhunLA]

As a Yank, I thought it was a good idea, as being 'Independent' always is.   Don't know why, the EU giving the UK / GBP a good spanking was a surprise though.   Had to see that coming, to deter other countries from leaving also. 

[hotandsticky]

12 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Although I supported Brexit, I think at the time of the vote, neither the general public nor government figures actually had thought through the consequences of a leave vote.  Had they considered all aspects of what would be affected by a leave vote, I think the public would have voted to remain.

 

IMHO, the reason why the UK fails or has a negative outcome for some many things is quite simple - we are too honest and we stick to the rules.  Other countries pick and choose only those requirements or laws that will benefit them, and 'fudge' or simply ignore the rules that won't benefit them.  The UK blindly follows each and every requirement, seemingly ignorant that other countries pick and choose.

 

Oh for another Maggie who stood up to EEC officials and stuck to her guns for the benefit of the UK!

 

Whilst I fully agree with your comments I would still have voted for BREXIT. If you believe something is right, you shouldn't vote against it because it is difficult.

 

Cameron left himself nowhere to go after failing to get the expected concessions from the EU. The Tory party were then incapable of delivering what was offered with the vote. 

[Negita43]

Britain no longer “rules the waves” – Many people who voted for and promoted Brexit thought we still did.

Now they are finding out the reality of the 21^st Century.

[Hi from France]

On 5/12/2025 at 1:10 PM, RayC said:

 

Imo the overwhelming majority of EU member states would welcome the UK's readmission. 

 

They would be foolish not to. Amongst other things, the UK is the world's 6th biggest economy (by GDP) and a significant military power in Europe.

 

To paraphrase Michel Barnier: 'There were no winners with Brexit'.

No winners, but Brexit turned up pretty good for us and the EU as a whole, we have sooo many problems and challenges, it's good not to have the UK's.

 

 

Maybe a majority of EU member states would welcome the UK's readmission, but you need unanimity e.g. Spain would want Gibraltar back etc..

 

 

Re-join won't happen, and anyway even re-apply is out of the question : Starmer has been a huge disappointment but maybe the next summit will bring something ?

 

Quote

The UK should approach its trading relationship with the EU as a responsible nation, respecting shared rules without demanding the perks of membership. Sir Keir is doing that – a victory given past Brexit delusions. Britain need not rejoin the single market – freedom of movement remains politically unviable – but it can pursue a deeper customs partnership that reduces trade frictions and anchors regulatory cooperation without breaking Labour’s manifesto pledges.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/may/12/the-guardian-view-on-uk-trade-quiet-re-engagement-is-a-slow-fix-for-brexits-mistakes

 

 

 

  

5 hours ago, simon43 said:

Although I supported Brexit, I think at the time of the vote, neither the general public nor government figures actually had thought through the consequences of a leave vote.  Had they considered all aspects of what would be affected by a leave vote, I think the public would have voted to remain.

 

IMHO, the reason why the UK fails or has a negative outcome for some many things is quite simple - we are too honest

 

As a Frenchman I definitely have to agree on respecting the rules (but in the Britain that existed before Brexit, it's not the case anymore : most basic custom WTO procedures have yet to be implemented, not to mention Boris's promises like the channel bridge 🙂 ).

 

 

As for the negative outcome, I think most brits did not realize how advantageous is used to be being a EU member (Japanese transplants exporting 80% of the production to the EU, draining the whole financial industry to London, rebate contribution, vetoing UE decisions until the UK gets what it wants ...).

 

After Brexit, there is no deal like: we have a 47 year experience of the UK as a member and we do not want more of that.

 

Now how could the UK voters be that blind? You're supposed to be the pragmatists

[RayC]

21 hours ago, Hi from France said:

No winners, but Brexit turned up pretty good for us and the EU as a whole, we have sooo many problems and challenges, it's good not to have the UK's.

 

In what way has Brexit turned out pretty good for us (France?) and the EU? I think the opposite. For example, like their British counterparts, European businesses - especially the smaller ones - have suffered as a result of Brexit.

 

What specific problems did the UK's membership of the EU create for the bloc? Being outside of the Eurozone was an issue but was manageable.

 

Sure they were times when the UK had different views about policy and strategy, but that is no different to any other member state and imo inevitable within a bloc of 27/28 members. It's no as if these differences in opinion disappeared when the UK left the bloc.

 

21 hours ago, Hi from France said:

 

Maybe a majority of EU member states would welcome the UK's readmission, but you need unanimity e.g. Spain would want Gibraltar back etc..

 

Spain would, no doubt, try to use Gibraltar as a bargaining tool but I very much doubt that it would prove to be a show stopper. Hungary,under Orban, would probably throw obstacles in the way for no other reason than to make mischief.

 

Obviously, the terms of rejoining would be (all) important, but what member states would object to the UK rejoining as a matter of principle ?

 

Having said that, I agree with your next paragraph (at least for the next 10 years or so).

 

21 hours ago, Hi from France said:

 

Re-join won't happen, and anyway even re-apply is out of the question : Starmer has been a huge disappointment but maybe the next summit will bring something ?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/may/12/the-guardian-view-on-uk-trade-quiet-re-engagement-is-a-slow-fix-for-brexits-mistakes

 

Agreed 

 

21 hours ago, Hi from France said:

 

As a Frenchman I definitely have to agree on respecting the rules (but in the Britain that existed before Brexit, it's not the case anymore : most basic custom WTO procedures have yet to be implemented, not to mention Boris's promises like the channel bridge 🙂 ).

 

If you are suggesting that Johnson was a charlatan, then you will get no argument from me. 

 

However, what are these WTO procedures that the UK supposedly doesn't adhere to?

 

21 hours ago, Hi from France said:

 

As for the negative outcome, I think most brits did not realize how advantageous is used to be being a EU member (Japanese transplants exporting 80% of the production to the EU, draining the whole financial industry to London, rebate contribution, vetoing UE decisions until the UK gets what it wants ...).

21 hours ago, Hi from France said:

After Brexit, there is no deal like: we have a 47 year experience of the UK as a member and we do not want more of that.

 

Now how could the UK voters be that blind? You're supposed to be the pragmatists

 

Agreed. There was nothing pragmatic about a vote to Leave.

 

The idea that the UK could as an independent nation dictate the terms of its' trading, and be a major voice in deciding how the world looked was imo totally unpragmatic and was rooted in a craving for 'times lost' i.e. the Empire. The reality since Brexit has shown this to have been delusional.

[Hi from France]

On 5/14/2025 at 11:03 AM, RayC said:

 

 

However, what are these WTO procedures that the UK supposedly doesn't adhere to?

I'm no customs expert but the same checks should be implemented for imports from EU countries and say Pakistan ("most favored nation"). 

 

. 

 

 Even on migration control being inside the EU was more confortable than being outside 

Quote

Tories only realised Brexit impact on small boats ‘just before’ leaving EU, admits senior MP

 

Chris Philp says in leaked audio that Tories ‘ran some checks’ just prior to Brexit and realised ‘around half’ of small boat arrivals could have been returned under EU law

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-brexit-small-boats-asylum-philp-b2751177.html

[Yellowtail]

Mass migration is killing the UK and France. 

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

I'm no customs expert but the same checks should be implemented for imports from EU countries and say Pakistan ("most favored nation"). 

 

The relative lack of checks on EU goods arriving in the UK seems to favour EU exporters. Other third countries such as Pakistan would appear to have more cause for complaint.

 

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

. 

 

 Even on migration control being inside the EU was more confortable than being outside 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-brexit-small-boats-asylum-philp-b2751177.html

 

You don't need to convince me that Brexit was a mistake: I agree. 

 

The point under discussion was that Brexit has negatively affected both the UK and the EU (member states).

[Hi from France]

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Mass migration is killing the UK and France. 

I do not think so : high migration countries like Spain are growing fast, while closed countries are declining and cannot fund health or retirement of their aging population 

[Hi from France]

10 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

The relative lack of checks on EU goods arriving in the UK seems to favour EU exporters. Other third countries such as Pakistan would appear to have more cause for complaint.

 

The point under discussion was that Brexit has negatively affected both the UK and the EU (member states).

EU of course has no cause for complaint, but the UK has been unable to exert sovereignty as should have, even with several years to do so

 

As for the fact Brexit has negatively affected both the UK and the EU,

economically I'm not sure I have not seen a study but I do not think it was such a loss for the EU

Politically it's clearly a win and I would like to have Hungary out as well, but they are not that stupid 

 

. 

 

When I see the British government asking for this or that EU perk because it is "mutual advantage", I draw my gun 🙂

[RayC]

38 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

EU of course has no cause for complaint, but the UK has been unable to exert sovereignty as should have, even with several years to do so

 

Agreed but so what? Surely that's the UK's problem?

 

38 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

As for the fact Brexit has negatively affected both the UK and the EU,

economically I'm not sure I have not seen a study but I do not think it was such a loss for the EU

 

I haven't seen any studies specifically on the effects of Brexit on the EU economy either. However, there is plenty of evidence which highlights the negative effects. For example, exports from the EU to the UK have fallen 18% since Brexit (Source: ONS). In addition, there is the loss of freedom of movement for EU nationals. The loss of the UK's financial contribution should not be underestimated either.

 

38 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Politically it's clearly a win and I would like to have Hungary out as well, but they are not that stupid 

 

In what ways is Brexit politically a "clear win" for the EU? The Scandinavian countries, The Netherlands, the Baltic states and some Eastern European nations probably think otherwise. 

 

Militarily and from a wider security perspective, Brexit has weakened the EU.

 

38 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

When I see the British government asking for this or that EU perk because it is "mutual advantage", I draw my gun 🙂

 

If you don't ask, you don't get😁

 

We all have our pet hates. For example, I fail to see the link between fishing rights and European security. Indeed, as Kaja Kallas said, "(I'm) surprised how important fish are, considering the  security situation".

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, RayC said:

 

. In addition, there is the loss of freedom of movement for EU nationals.

 

   That is the main reason why people voted Brexit though 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   That is the main reason why people voted Brexit though 

The left loves them some mass-migration...

[RayC]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   That is the main reason why people voted Brexit though 

 

If that is the case then Brexit has failed.

 

Brexit may well have reduced the number of EU migrants but immigration to the UK is at - or near to - its' all-time high.

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, RayC said:

 

If that is the case then Brexit has failed.

 

Brexit may well have reduced the number of EU migrants but immigration to the UK is at - or near to - its' all-time high.

 

   That is because immigrants now have to apply  for visas , rather than just showing up with a E.U passport 

[Hi from France]

43 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

If you don't ask, you don't get😁

 

We all have our pet hates. For example, I fail to see the link between fishing rights and European security. Indeed, as Kaja Kallas said, "(I'm) surprised how important fish are, considering the  security situation".

 

Quote

Agreed but so what? Surely that's the UK's problem?

mostly but also this is does not respect the WTO rules, which was this original question

 

 

for the EU it's a problem of "espoused principles", but it's indeed advantageous, like the fact the UK will align on EU standard, like that one 

 

 

 

Quote

I haven't seen any studies specifically on the effects of Brexit on the EU economy either. However, there is plenty of evidence which highlights the negative effects. For example, exports from the EU to the UK have fallen 18% since Brexit

 

indeed, but is it a real loss or are just exports just going somewhere else?

 

Quote

freedom of movement for EU nationals

• for tourism freedom is here, but things like schools trips became complicated esp with pupil of different nationalities
• Regarding labor migration, the United Kingdom holds little appeal for Polish skilled trade workers or Spanish nursing professionals

 

 

 

Quote

 The loss of the UK's financial contribution should not be underestimated either.

indeed

 

but you have to think "net contribution" we do not have to subsidize anything in the UK anymore,

 

For what it's worth : 

• Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) Payments: Estimated yearly amount: £2.9 billion.
• European Structural and Investment Funds (ESIF): Estimated yearly amount: £2.1 billion. Details: ESIF aimed to reduce regional inequalities and support economic and social cohesion.
• etc...

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

Militarily and from a wider security perspective, Brexit has weakened the EU.

 

there was not much there, and Ukraine, not Brexit completely changed the equation

 

 

 

 

as for fish it is as deeply symbolic as it it irrelevant to defense (and financially)

it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   That is because immigrants now have to apply  for visas , rather than just showing up with a E.U passport 

 

That doesn't explain why immigration has doubled since 2015.

[Yellowtail]

Just now, RayC said:

 

That doesn't explain why immigration has doubled since 2015.

Because immigration benefits the rich on the backs of the poor. 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

 

That doesn't explain why immigration has doubled since 2015.

 

   Because they weren't counted as immigrants when they arrived on E.U passports 

[RayC]

43 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

mostly but also this is does not respect the WTO rules, which was this original question

 

 

for the EU it's a problem of "espoused principles", but it's indeed advantageous, like the fact the UK will align on EU standard, like that one 

 

How if the current situation is advantageous for the EU is it a problem for them?

 

43 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

 

 

indeed, but is it a real loss or are just exports just going somewhere else?

 

The same could be argued from the UK side.

 

It would be good to have a survey into the effects of Brexit on the EU similar to the ones conducted into the effects on the UK.

 

43 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

• for tourism freedom is here, but things like schools trips became complicated esp with pupil of different nationalities
• Regarding labor migration, the United Kingdom holds little appeal for Polish skilled trade workers or Spanish nursing professionals

 

Certainly incorrect re Polish workers. One of the main complaints of 'Leavers' was the number of Polish plumbers and construction workers coming to the UK.

 

43 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

 

 

indeed

 

but you have to think "net contribution" we do not have to subsidize anything in the UK anymore,

 

For what it's worth : 

• Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) Payments: Estimated yearly amount: £2.9 billion.
• European Structural and Investment Funds (ESIF): Estimated yearly amount: £2.1 billion. Details: ESIF aimed to reduce regional inequalities and support economic and social cohesion.
• etc...

 

The facts speak for themselves: In 2016 the UK was the second highest net contributor (€7.43bn) behind Germany. France's net contribution was €4.4bn. 

 

Personally, I'd steer well clear of CAP if I were trying to make a point. In 2014 France received €8.5bn from CAP.

 

43 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

there was not much there, and Ukraine, not Brexit completely changed the equation

 

Ukraine did change the equation and highlighted Europe's lack of readiness for war. Within Western Europe, France and the UK are the only nations with sizeable armed forces, hardware and defence expertise. If the EU is to play a bigger role in Europe's defence then it can ill afford to exclude one of its' two major players.

 

43 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

as for fish it is as deeply symbolic as it it irrelevant to defense (and financially)

 

Fishing rights may be deeply symbolic but cod quotas have nothing whatsoever to do with the production of Trident missiles.

[RayC]

23 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Because immigration benefits the rich on the backs of the poor. 

 

That may be but it still doesn't explain a near doubling in immigration.

 

22 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Because they weren't counted as immigrants when they arrived on E.U passports 

 

Not so. According to Gov.uk, 269,000 EU citizens migrated to the UK in 2015.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

 

That may be but it still doesn't explain a near doubling in immigration.

 

 

 

   I don't know .

I could do a websearch and find out and let you know ?

[Cameroni]

On 5/13/2025 at 7:49 AM, simon43 said:

IMHO, the reason why the UK fails or has a negative outcome for some many things is quite simple - we are too honest and we stick to the rules.  Other countries pick and choose only those requirements or laws that will benefit them, and 'fudge' or simply ignore the rules that won't benefit them.  The UK blindly follows each and every requirement, seemingly ignorant that other countries pick and choose.

 

Well, let's see. Britain clandestinely sent a spy botanist to Portuguese colonies to steal tea plant seeds in order to steal Portugal's tea trade.

 

Britain made piracy a state endeavour, called "privateering" and merrily set out about robbing Spanish ships.

 

Britain made slavery a crown enterprise.

 

Britain traded glass beads for gold with unwitting natives.

 

Britain plundered Indian riches and let the Indians starve to death in WWII.

 

Do you think the nickname "Perfidious Albion" was awarded to Britain because it was a "stickler for rules"? 

[Hi from France]

21 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

How if the current situation is advantageous for the EU is it a problem for them?

it's a problem of "espoused principles", but it's indeed advantageous, like the fact the UK will align on EU standard

 

 

Quote

One of the main complaints of 'Leavers' was the number of Polish plumbers and construction workers coming to the UK.

well not anymore World Bank forecasts show GDP per capita in Poland is on track to overtake UK by 2030

 

now the UK is still very attractive from Nigeria, Pakistan, India, the Philippines..

 

 

Quote

Personally, I'd steer well clear of CAP if I were trying to make a point. In 2014 France received €8.5bn from CAP.

it's fine really

 

 

Quote

If the EU is to play a bigger role in Europe's defence then it can ill afford to exclude one of its' two major players.

Indeed,

 

but it's now the industrial aspect that takes center stage: will the UK secure a significant share of the €150 billion budget without making a substantial contribution? One can easily sense their desire for 'mutual benefit' - in the typically British sense of the term -

 

 

 

Quote

cod quotas have nothing whatsoever to do with the production of Trident missiles.

 

Agreed 

 

and on the other hand, the €150 billion budget is quite relevant here.