July 25, 200718 yr Why did God send a farang, not a chinese? Is our God biased? Does he care about chinese people, indians or .....? Be prepared for a couple of others to pick on the main error of that statement. What, that god was a Jew, not a falang?
July 25, 200718 yr Scholars have long debated the exact ethnicity and nationality of Jesus. Recently, at a theological meeting in Rome, scholars had a heated debate on this subject. One by one, they offered their evidence............. THREE PROOFS THAT JESUS WAS MEXICAN: 1. His first name was Jesus 2. He was bilingual 3. He was always being harassed by the authorities But then there were equally good arguments that....... JESUS WAS BLACK 1. He called everybody "brother" 2. He liked Gospel 3. He couldn't get a fair trial But then there were equally good arguments that....... JESUS WAS JEWISH 1. He went into His Father's business 2. He lived at home until he was 33 3. He was sure his Mother was a virgin, and his Mother was sure he was God But then there were equally good arguments that....... JESUS WAS ITALIAN 1. He talked with his hands 2. He had wine with every meal 3. He used olive oil But then there were equally good argument that....... JESUS WAS A CALIFORNIAN 1. He never cut his hair 2. He walked around barefoot 3. He started a new religion But then there were equally good arguments that....... JESUS WAS IRISH 1. He never got married 2. He was always telling stories 3. He loved green pastures But perhaps the most compelling evidence ...... THREE PROOFS THAT JESUS WAS A WOMAN ..... 1. She had to feed a crowd at a moment's notice when there was no food 2. She kept trying to get the message across to a bunch of men who JUST DIDN'T GET IT 3. Even when She was dead, She had to get up because there was more work for Her to do
July 25, 200718 yr Scholars have long debated the exact ethnicity and nationality of Jesus.Recently, at a theological meeting in Rome, scholars had a heated debate on this subject. One by one, they offered their evidence............. THREE PROOFS THAT JESUS WAS MEXICAN: 1. His first name was Jesus 2. He was bilingual 3. He was always being harassed by the authorities But then there were equally good arguments that....... JESUS WAS BLACK 1. He called everybody "brother" 2. He liked Gospel 3. He couldn't get a fair trial But then there were equally good arguments that....... JESUS WAS JEWISH 1. He went into His Father's business 2. He lived at home until he was 33 3. He was sure his Mother was a virgin, and his Mother was sure he was God But then there were equally good arguments that....... JESUS WAS ITALIAN 1. He talked with his hands 2. He had wine with every meal 3. He used olive oil But then there were equally good argument that....... JESUS WAS A CALIFORNIAN 1. He never cut his hair 2. He walked around barefoot 3. He started a new religion But then there were equally good arguments that....... JESUS WAS IRISH 1. He never got married 2. He was always telling stories 3. He loved green pastures But perhaps the most compelling evidence ...... THREE PROOFS THAT JESUS WAS A WOMAN ..... 1. She had to feed a crowd at a moment's notice when there was no food 2. She kept trying to get the message across to a bunch of men who JUST DIDN'T GET IT 3. Even when She was dead, She had to get up because there was more work for Her to do
July 25, 200718 yr I'm highly religious. But then again I also believe I am God. I believe in you TAWP. I do I do I really weally do! I just thought you were the Devil. Well...it CAN be hot as in hel_l where I live... Something to ponder: Does the Devil think he is right, i.e. God being the Devil and that he (the Devil) should be the rightfull ruler of heaven - or does he know he is 'wrong' and do everything on purpose, therefor being truly evil? Eek>> That was a good list. ^^
July 25, 200718 yr Why did God send a farang, not a chinese? Is our God biased? Does he care about chinese people, indians or .....?Are other animals taken care of by god? Well meemiathai, I was willing to ignore your comments as we are obviously so far apart in our beliefs system. However, yes, God is biased! He chose the Jews as his people. From there all the promises eminated. Jesus was (and is) the fullfillment of those promises. The question as to whether he cares about these other races? The answer is yes he does. All nations through Jesus will be blessed! I have to deal with your last point as you alluded to it in another post. God does care about the animal kingdom. He created them. But we, as humans, have preeminence. ps eek, very funny post!
July 25, 200718 yr Also, regarding versions in translation, we have enough historic evidence to verify the veracity of scripture. It really comes down to how people have interpreted scripture over the years. But isn't the Hebrew word for 'virgin' the same as 'young girl'. Is that then just only open to interpretation or could it be a fundamental (and intentional) error in translation. Sorry mate, I heard this one years ago and checked it out. The Hebrew word for virgin - the one that's quoted of Mary in the NT - is only used in the OT 7 times, 5 of those times it's translated virgin, 1 time as 'maid' and one time as 'damsel'. This of course proves nothing. However, the context of Isa 7.14 "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son..." I would hardly be a sign if it was just a girl giving birth to a child, would it? Well actually, yes it would....... Damsel or Maid are the same word as Virgin, you say that it has only been mis-translated twice.... that's two times more than enough for me. No, it's not a mistranslation, it's just translated as maid and damsel - in those days, a virgin! Imagine the scene, young carpenter needs to return to his home town to vote, his betrothed (ie not yet married) is heavy with child, carrying a child out of wedlock was a stoning offence......... so, God did it. Interesting this one as it states that Joseph could have made a big thing out of it. However, scripture states "Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit." So Joseph believed that her child was conceived by the power of God, (the Holy Spirit) It's interesting that people are less likely to pick up on the word 'satan' which simply means adversary or opponant. It can (and is) any person, place or thing which is being an adversary to you! Not a proper name at all, should never have a capital 'S'! I think this one is a fundamental and intentional error of translation to bend scripture around their already formed doctrine of the Devil. I agree, that isn't an error in translation, there is a little bit of satan (small s) within all of us..... isn't that what the lessons of Jesus are all about, every man has the capacity for good, but we also contain the opposite.... some have 'good' in abundance and the dark side doesn't have the chance to surface, some are the total opposite, but most are in-between and it is a constant struggle to 'do the right thing' Actually, while I agree with you, I'm going to nit-pick, Jesus actually taught that we all have the capacity for evil! As I said a few posts back, I admire you Tiggy for your faith, I admire you for the strength you hold in you convictions, I however can't. Taddy, I respect the intelligent way you debate these things, and as for your seeing things differently, I respect that too. Why should it be a problem we seeing things differently? Respect due!
July 26, 200718 yr Why did God send a farang, not a chinese? Is our God biased? Does he care about chinese people, indians or .....?Are other animals taken care of by god? Well meemiathai, I was willing to ignore your comments as we are obviously so far apart in our beliefs system. However, yes, God is biased! He chose the Jews as his people. From there all the promises eminated. Jesus was (and is) the fullfillment of those promises. The question as to whether he cares about these other races? The answer is yes he does. All nations through Jesus will be blessed! I have to deal with your last point as you alluded to it in another post. God does care about the animal kingdom. He created them. But we, as humans, have preeminence. ps eek, very funny post! Sigh. Why ignore me? I did not ignore you. It is difficult. Whenever trying to discuss with religious people, they choose to ignore logic, they ignore science, they ignore what you say. You choose to ignore what I asked in my posts. You do realize you have not answered a lot of my questions, don't you? Actually not only you, the Brothers who preach chose to ignore if one had the brains to challenge whatever that seemed illogical. Is that the way it should be? Is that the way God wants? Ignore those who ask questions? You can let me know if you do not want to discuss about the truth, you have the right of course. But that is just going to prove again what I said. And I agree I have no right to try to stop people believing in fairy tales like Snow White and Cinderella, right? But we, as humans, have preeminenceIs that what you said or God? I strongly disagree! I call it arrogance! Also by what you said, it seems that God supports racism? Bias? Does God talk to the Pope nowadays? How do people know how to behave nowadays if God does not speak to anyone of us? Or does he? Ignore me if that is what you choose.
July 26, 200718 yr Why should it be a problem we seeing things differently? Respect due! As far as I am concerned, it isn't a problem. If most of the world followed your path or my code of ethics (freedom of choice, of course) then the world would be a much better place. If He really does exist, isn't that what He really wants. And if He doesn't exist, isn't peace something We should strive for. Edit Sorry meemaithai, I had the reply box open from before I went to bed and didn't see your post until the page refreshed. I don't want to speak for Tiggy, I doubt that he was ignoring you, but I think that on this rare occasion, my 'still small voice' was the loudest thing in the room.
July 26, 200718 yr Why did God send a farang, not a chinese? Is our God biased? Does he care about chinese people, indians or .....? Errr well there were probably not too many Asians in Jerusalem at the time, one might as well ask why Buddha was not African. Okay there may have been some who travelled there from Asia but very very few who were actually born in that neck of the woods so it was much more likely for him to be local to that area. Anyway, it doesn't matter what race Jesus was, only that he was and that his teachings (including the Gnostic scriptures) survived.
July 26, 200718 yr There is no more emotive subject on earth than this one. Even within the small community of rabid lunatics that is Bedders, polarization occurs and sides are becoming quickly drawn................................ In a nutshell the thread exemplifies my problems with such strong beliefs in a war like race like us Humans. God is with us, cried the good German Protestants as they went over the top to kill the good English Anglicans being blessed at the other end of the field. Who's side was he on ?
July 26, 200718 yr There is no more emotive subject on earth than this one. Even within the small community of rabid lunatics that is Bedders, polarization occurs and sides are becoming quickly drawn................................In a nutshell the thread exemplifies my problems with such strong beliefs in a war like race like us Humans. God is with us, cried the good German Protestants as they went over the top to kill the good English Anglicans being blessed at the other end of the field. Who's side was he on ? The winners, obviously!
July 26, 200718 yr To meemiathai. Let's get something straight here. Your posts have been disrespectful, emotive and ignorant. Your own self-righteousness is what comes to the fore in every post. Read back throught the thread and compare your posts to those others who also see things differently from me - spot the difference! Also I do not ignore locgic, nor do I ignore science. I am a scientist. Go discover what the word means before using it, you might learn something! Let me recommend some light reading "In six days" 'Why fifty scientists choose to believe in creation' ISBN0-89051-341-4. Of course you are so entrenched in your own views you may not be interested in the other side of the arguement, but that's up to you. Also your comments about those that 'have brains' made me chortle. There have been many intelligent and insightful posts by many members of this forum, yourself excluded. Are you only reading your own posts? Last point about us humans having preeminence, I don't care if you don't like it, it's what I believe and it's what scripture says, it's not a value judgement, it's a fact! Scripture (that's the thing you keep referring to as fairy tale and then you expect me to respect your views!) to finish. From Gen 1.27-28 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
July 26, 200718 yr : and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx dominion :dominance or power or control.:leitmotif of the "believers"?
July 26, 200718 yr Dominion in this passage means in the sense of supeior intelligence - it's the capacity for abstract thought that separates us from the animals, ie a capacity to form abstract thoughts regarding the existence (or otherwise) of God and his attributes, hence this thread. I am very much an animal lover, but they don't consider things of this nature.
July 26, 200718 yr Although through various generations the 'word' wasn't made available to the common people (the dark ages), there were always common people who had the word available. Intentional leak of information, and like all intentional leaks, only the information deemed necessary. What about all the missing gospels that have only recently come to light, have they always been available to the common people? ...... I think not. Well Taddy, this is an interesting one. Not the leaks - that makes no sense! However, the so called gospels. I could write a gospel tomorow, call it the gospel of Bob and somebody out there would be willing to use it saying, what about the Gospel of Bob? I have read excerpts from various other Gospel and they did not read like scripture, full of unnecessary stories that added nothing to the original. It's like the book of Mormon, if you have a knowledge of scripture ir just doesn't read right. It's like someone sat down and tried to write something. I have not read every gnostic writing, but those I have read failed miserably. Failed how? During the time that followed Jesus there was no Bible at all, no organised religion for hundreds of years. HUNDREDS. There were many groups of Christians and writings from many of Jesus' followers. But many of these were outlawed by Emperor Constantine 300 years after Jesus died, because the old and new testaments fitted in better with his system of beliefs. This is what actually happened. So why would a rational man today in the 21st Century still be so willing to leave those writings out in the dark today? Surely we have moved on since then? Surely knowledge is not a betrayal to your belief system? The books were outcast because they portrayed Jesus as a mere mortal and taught that you can commune with God directly because "he" is inside each of us. Because the "word" of God (where "word" was translated from the Greek 'Logos' from which logic is also derived), is really rational thought brought about by contemplation and conscience. This took power away from the Church and Rome, no good having a bunch of Christians out there roaming the streets doing dangerous things like thinking and challenging authority now is there? Dismissing the Gnostic writings should not be done quite so quickly you may as well dismiss the New Testament as they were (before they were bastardised by the Church over the millennia) pretty much the same thing.
July 26, 200718 yr Dominion in this passage means in the sense of supeior intelligence - xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx "Those with superior intelligence need to learn to be wise"/Charles Murray.
July 26, 200718 yr The question as to whether he cares about these other races? The answer is yes he does. All nations through Jesus will be blessed! Quickie for ya tiggy... does that include all the nations that have arisen since 2000 years ago, or only the nations that existed then? I just want to make sure I'm in the right country at the right time, you see... Wouldn't wanna be missed out if there's gonna be some wine flowing.. I'll make a deal with you infact: If i'm nearer to the nation with the wine, I'll save you a goblet and a seat, and if you are nearer, you do the same for me. Pshh... Back on topic. This past week I've worked the food and beverage for a council with reps from over thirty nations (asian/Far-east/Euro/Yank, all parts of the world) that was discussing, hearing lectures, and finding, with open mindedness, the possibilities of bringing some aspects of religion and some aspects of science alittle closer and/or more open to eachother. I don't know what they talked about much, didn't pay much attention, due to my other duties in the kitchen, but it seemed very interesting, and all I can say is that scientists and church people alike who were there had a very pleasant time, agreed to differ when they needed to and left last night following a nice gala dinner in which all seemed to be enjoying eachothers (scientists/religious folk) company. I like that.
July 26, 200718 yr Although through various generations the 'word' wasn't made available to the common people (the dark ages), there were always common people who had the word available. Intentional leak of information, and like all intentional leaks, only the information deemed necessary. What about all the missing gospels that have only recently come to light, have they always been available to the common people? ...... I think not. Well Taddy, this is an interesting one. Not the leaks - that makes no sense! However, the so called gospels. I could write a gospel tomorow, call it the gospel of Bob and somebody out there would be willing to use it saying, what about the Gospel of Bob? I have read excerpts from various other Gospel and they did not read like scripture, full of unnecessary stories that added nothing to the original. It's like the book of Mormon, if you have a knowledge of scripture ir just doesn't read right. It's like someone sat down and tried to write something. I have not read every gnostic writing, but those I have read failed miserably. Failed how? During the time that followed Jesus there was no Bible at all, no organised religion for hundreds of years. HUNDREDS. There were many groups of Christians and writings from many of Jesus' followers. But many of these were outlawed by Emperor Constantine 300 years after Jesus died, because the old and new testaments fitted in better with his system of beliefs. This is what actually happened. So why would a rational man today in the 21st Century still be so willing to leave those writings out in the dark today? Surely we have moved on since then? Surely knowledge is not a betrayal to your belief system? The books were outcast because they portrayed Jesus as a mere mortal and taught that you can commune with God directly because "he" is inside each of us. Because the "word" of God (where "word" was translated from the Greek 'Logos' from which logic is also derived), is really rational thought brought about by contemplation and conscience. This took power away from the Church and Rome, no good having a bunch of Christians out there roaming the streets doing dangerous things like thinking and challenging authority now is there? Dismissing the Gnostic writings should not be done quite so quickly you may as well dismiss the New Testament as they were (before they were bastardised by the Church over the millennia) pretty much the same thing. Failed meaning they didn't (don't) hold up to what was already written in the OT, which is, incidentally the bible! We didn't have the 'canon' of the NT until the 3rd century AD. And what we have got is consistant with the OT. All of the bible must be read, not just the NT. Also I am not dismissing the gnostic writings quickly! I have read everything I could get my hands on, just like I read the Apocrypha, interesting though it may be, it does'nt ring true with the rest of scripture. Give me some credit, I have been a bible student for many years and have studied the history in great detail. I know how we got our bible and all about other writings. I am also a Greek and Hebrew scholar so I have an understanding of the Greek word 'logos' and it's equivalent in Hebrew 'dabar'. Jesus was the 'logos' made flesh! "And the Word (logos) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1.14 If you choose to believe the other writings as scripture that's your choice!
July 26, 200718 yr The question as to whether he cares about these other races? The answer is yes he does. All nations through Jesus will be blessed! Quickie for ya tiggy... does that include all the nations that have arisen since 2000 years ago, or only the nations that existed then? I just want to make sure I'm in the right country at the right time, you see... Wouldn't wanna be missed out if there's gonna be some wine flowing.. I'll make a deal with you infact: If i'm nearer to the nation with the wine, I'll save you a goblet and a seat, and if you are nearer, you do the same for me. Pshh... Back on topic. This past week I've worked the food and beverage for a council with reps from over thirty nations (asian/Far-east/Euro/Yank, all parts of the world) that was discussing, hearing lectures, and finding, with open mindedness, the possibilities of bringing some aspects of religion and some aspects of science alittle closer and/or more open to eachother. I don't know what they talked about much, didn't pay much attention, due to my other duties in the kitchen, but it seemed very interesting, and all I can say is that scientists and church people alike who were there had a very pleasant time, agreed to differ when they needed to and left last night following a nice gala dinner in which all seemed to be enjoying eachothers (scientists/religious folk) company. I like that. The expression 'all nations' means the whole earth and is not just used of 2000 years. First used in Deuteronomy 4, in fact. It's also great that people with differences can get on and agree to differ. Wouldn't it be a far better world if that were the case. ps I'll save you a goblet and a seat!
July 26, 200718 yr Also I am not dismissing the gnostic writings quickly! I have read everything I could get my hands on, just like I read the Apocrypha, interesting though it may be, it does'nt ring true with the rest of scripture. I'm not sure what to make of this as they - the scriptures - certainly don't "ring true" to me.
July 26, 200718 yr Also I am not dismissing the gnostic writings quickly! I have read everything I could get my hands on, just like I read the Apocrypha, interesting though it may be, it does'nt ring true with the rest of scripture. I'm not sure what to make of this as they - the scriptures - certainly don't "ring true" to me. Once again UG, you are entitled to your opinion. They do ring true and consistant to me!
July 26, 200718 yr Can I ask one more question? When you say the scriptures ring true, do you mean those miracles that are written in it all actually happened? I have no idea how I am being disrespectful.
July 26, 200718 yr Well maybe one more? Will I be going to he11 for behaving like that? What do you think? What if I have never heard of Jesus? Is this post disrespectful?
July 26, 200718 yr Can I ask one more question? When you say the scriptures ring true, do you mean those miracles that are written in it all actually happened?I have no idea how I am being disrespectful. Yes I fully believe in the miracles, that they really happened! Some of your posts have been disrespectful. A respectful answer, to the above, for example, is to say, you can believe them if you want to, I, however, do not! Diversity is about respecting people’s differences.
July 26, 200718 yr Well maybe one more? Will I be going to he11 for behaving like that? What do you think? What if I have never heard of Jesus?Is this post disrespectful? You posted this while I was replying to the other one, so... The word 'He11' in the bible simply means the 'grave' so yes both you and I and everyone is going to he11! He11 is not a place of eternal torment! And no, your post was not disrespectful.
July 26, 200718 yr Wow, what a great read!! I can't decide where to jump into on this thread, but I enjoy reading it.
July 26, 200718 yr Wow, what a great read!! I can't decide where to jump into on this thread, but I enjoy reading it. I'm glad you've enjoyed it bops, I have too! I believe in miracles.... Who's gonna jam with me here? I'll jam with ya kayo... ...since ya came along...
July 26, 200718 yr You guys stay here; you took over our Atheist Nation thread.... We've all moved over to the Noobs as New Devils Thread. See ya....
July 26, 200718 yr Sometimes threads get closed, sometimes they just level out, like this one has. And I'm glad!
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