New tax era in Thailand begins as Revenue now shares data with 138 countries within the OECD

[Bday Prang]

9 minutes ago, bradiston said:

I was once a sole trader. I did my own year end accounts. Tax deducted at source? At source of what?

The rules changed some time ago and I can only speak from experience in the  construction industry, If operating as a sole trader the client( the one who pays you) is required to deduct tax from payments before you receive them, it used to be a flat rate of 18% now it is i believe  around 25%

Obviously if working as a window cleaner or market trader, for example, when one would be generally paid in cash such regulations would be unenforceable and would obviously not apply.

[lordgrinz]

11 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

1. I have $100,000 in an overseas account on Jan 1st. I remit $50,000 to Thailand in March.  No tax.
2. I have $100,000 in an overseas account on Jan 1st. I remit $50,000 to Thailand in March, then deposit $50,000 into that overseas account in April.  No tax.
3. I have $100,000 in an overseas account on Jan 1st. I remit $50,000 to Thailand in March, then deposit $50,000 into that overseas account in April, then remit another $50,000 in May.  Unless I could show that the April deposit was from a source already taxed by a country having a tax treaty with Thailand, I am taxed on the full second remittance.
4. I have $100,000 in an overseas account on Jan 1st. I deposit $30,000 into that account in February and I remit $50,000 to Thailand in March.  Unless I could show that the February deposit was from a source already taxed by a country having a tax treaty with Thailand, I am taxed on $30,000 of my remittance.

5. I have $100,000 in an overseas account on Jan 1st. I deposit $100,000 into that account in February and I remit $50,000 to Thailand in March.  Unless I could show that the February deposit was from a source already taxed by a country having a tax treaty with Thailand, I am taxed on the full $50,000 of my remittance - but not on the remainder of the deposit that wasn't remitted (unlike many countries, including my own).

 

So, basically it's "last in, first out".

 

[jerrymahoney]

3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I did make that exact point to another poster on the other thread. Jim Gant possibly.

Agreed.   I was just too lazy to go find it. And any time someone says (To wit) You with the 65k monthly boy are you going to be in trouble I react impulsively.

[Bday Prang]

2 minutes ago, BE88 said:

 

It's not me who says it but it's written in the PO Thai Examiner.com so using logic I assume that it will be an extra request to get your Visa renewal like your bank deposit, but if you think it's exempt you're free to think so.

 

I don't think anything,  and I won't be basing any decisions I make on what is written in online newspapers by second rate journalists who's prime objective is not necessarily to inform.  This is Thailand so logic does not come into it . its a concept they neither understand nor have a word for

[lordgrinz]

3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Here is my 800k for extension - That is great, now what are you living on.

 

I got that exact question from them on my last extension, I had one Million baht in a Thai savings account (Non-O Marriage situation), and the IO wanted to know about what money I was living on, as I am not employed, or technically retired. My wife told the IO officer I was living off savings and investments abroad, eventually they dropped the questioning. 

[The Cyclist]

43 minutes ago, BE88 said:

When you show up for your visa renewal they will ask you for proof of your visa declaration if you have lived in Thailand for more 180 days.

 

When I renew my extension next November, they probably wont ask me for anything ( as usual ) They will check through my paperwork, ensuring that I meet the financial requirements, give me a new stamp and ask me for Baht 5700 ( Ext & re-entry permit )

 

If they decide in the meantime to do a bit of merging of Immigration and RD to catch out those pesky foreigners, I might agree with you, until then I have my doubts.

[The Cyclist]

Just now, lordgrinz said:

I got that exact question from them on my last extension,

 

I didn't, and I renewed in November.

 

But if there is going to integration by Immigration and RD then I would expect such questions to be asked for those renewing after 01 July 2024, once they have passed the 180 day threshold.

 

I have my doubts that there will be any integration between Immigration and RD.

[Sato]

10 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Here is my 800k for extension - That is great, now what are you living on

Easy, married with a rich Thai woman !

And/or transfer only 400'000 Bath a year to Thailand and have to pay 0 Tax because of the allowed tax deductions.

 

 

[QuantumQuandry]

If this whole deal involves any reasonable amount of extra money coming out of my pocket, I will move back to Philippines and try some other local countries, like Malaysia/Indonesia.

 

I wonder how many people are in the same boat?  Take a guess at what percentage of expats (that weren't already paying taxes for foreign income)...would be willing to pay more to Thailand, if the rules change and are enforced?

 

Not a rhetorical question.  Genuinely curious how many people will just lump it and stay.

[jerrymahoney]

2 minutes ago, Sato said:

Easy, married with a rich Thai woman !

Great. Let's see HER taxes.

[The Cyclist]

10 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Agreed.   I was just too lazy to go find it. And any time someone says (To wit) You with the 65k monthly boy are you going to be in trouble I react impulsively.

 

I think I said something along the lines of:

 

Immigration want to see evidence of at least 65k a month, they couldn't care less if it was spent on a Thai Tax bill, 200 crates of the finest Chang or a daily indulgence in exotic dancers.

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

we  the resident here, I think they will eventually instruct us that we must have a Tax Number, and that to extend a stay in the country, we have to provide that tax number and money remitted into Thailand by a copy of one's bank book (s) and that local banks will need to provide names of resident aliens and then, we will need to also provide our income and any taxes paid to our home country.  For me is is easy, just need to print out an additional page or two when I do my 1-year long stay extension.  I have plenty of documentation from my US payers of my govt pension and the amount of taxes withheld by the government.  I used to have to provide these same documents to immigration along with my Embassy letter which disappeared a few years ago.

Easy as abc?  I wouldn't be so sure or so smug.   just look at the problems people have now regarding the current required documents, with different immigration offices demanding different documents just on a whim.  Do you think that all of a sudden it will suddenly become plain sailing,  and they will all fall into line ? Of course they won't and their opportunities for extorsion will have only increased

Not all countries run their tax years from 1st of Jan either  the Uk's tax year runs from April,  another potential hurdle    

[jerrymahoney]

9 minutes ago, QuantumQuandry said:

Not a rhetorical question.  Genuinely curious how many people will just lump it and stay.

Presuming US Social Security is off limits, with the CURRENTLY available deductions on the remainder I would need to import, my Thai tax bill would be about $US 100 per year.

Edited January 8 by jerrymahoney

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, NZAMBOY said:

Altho many of us will not have to pay additional tax, we will still have to file, which will mostly be done by accountancy firms...a real windfall for them!!!...the way i see it, the banks will hold back 15% of our offshore deposit and we'll have to file in order to have it returned...

That's not the banks responsibility and they won't touch that in any way so you can forget that idea

[Sato]

20 minutes ago, BE88 said:

 

It's not me who says it but it's written in the PO Thai Examiner.com so using logic I assume that it will be an extra request to get your Visa renewal like your bank deposit, but if you think it's exempt you're free to think so.

 

In certain tax divison in Thailand you cannot file a tax return if your taxable income is below 120'000 Bath even if you want.

 

In some tax division you need a residence certificate to file a tax return which at some immigration offices you want get anymore.

 

Everything so confusing in Thailand 😀

[The Cyclist]

10 minutes ago, QuantumQuandry said:

If this whole deal involves any reasonable amount of extra money coming out of my pocket,

 

It depends on what you consider a reasonable amount of money.

 

11 minutes ago, QuantumQuandry said:

Not a rhetorical question.  Genuinely curious how many people will just lump it and stay.

 

I have calculated somewhere between Zero and worse case 80,000 Baht a year in tax for the money that I now remit to Thailand.

 

A return flight to the UK would cost IRO 50,000 Baht alone.

 

Spending 6 months bouncing around SE Asia would cost a lot more than 80,000 Baht.

 

So it really depends if you want to cut your nose off to spite your face.

[freeworld]

1 hour ago, NZAMBOY said:

Altho many of us will not have to pay additional tax, we will still have to file, which will mostly be done by accountancy firms...a real windfall for them!!!...the way i see it, the banks will hold back 15% of our offshore deposit and we'll have to file in order to have it returned...

Just a wrong assumption, can file a tax return without an accountant, RD people can help tax payers with filling and filing.

 

Banks are not going to unilaterally tax 15% of money on deposit.

Edited January 8 by freeworld

[Yumthai]

12 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Great. Let's see HER taxes.

Rich Thais I know manage to either pay 0 tax or at a tiny rate compared to their income/net worth. Amazing Thailand.

 

[Sato]

12 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Great. Let's see HER taxes

Also easy !

She earns 400'000 Bath.

Together with my 400'000 Bath enough to life a simple life in Thailand😀

Hey, you have to be just as creative as the gouvernements who want's to steal your money !

 

[freeworld]

15 minutes ago, Sato said:

In certain tax divison in Thailand you cannot file a tax return if your taxable income is below 120'000 Bath even if you want.

 

In some tax division you need a residence certificate to file a tax return which at some immigration offices you want get anymore.

 

Everything so confusing in Thailand 😀

They have the rules and procedure.

 

In my home country it works along the same lines.

 

I have read some reports in S Korea they tax worldwide income, if tax resident, they want a tax residence certificate of where the tax was paid or they will tax the income as well.

Edited January 8 by freeworld

[Sato]

1 minute ago, Yumthai said:

Rich Thais I know manage to either pay 0 tax or at a tiny rate compared to their income/net worth. Amazing Thailand.

 

Same everywhere in the world !

[jerrymahoney]

6 minutes ago, Sato said:

Also easy !

She earns 400'000 Bath.

Together with my 400'000 Bath enough to life a simple life in Thailand😀

Hey, you have to be just as creative as the gouvernements who want's to steal your money !

 

Yes -- Easy peazy if you have what you say. Some others do as well; some don't

 

But in your post above you tell the IMM query your Thai wife is rich.

 

Edited January 8 by jerrymahoney

[NanLaew]

36 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

But we are getting into the realms of the RD and Immigration being synchronized when they are currently 2 seperate entities.

 

According to the earlier post by @ballpoint where he had to hunt down the tax office that had red-flagged his passport with immigration, they sort of already do have some degree of synchronisation.

 

Back in the 'civilized' UK, there's already linkage between HMRC (revenue), HMPO (the passport office) and even DVLC (who issue driving licenses). There's absolutely nothing to stop Thailand pulling their collective socks up and getting everyone similarly tracked, be it for taxes, overstay or DWI. Especially now they've signed up to the big boys club at the OECD.

 

PS: Cambodia is over there ====>

[Ben Zioner]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 180 days

I think it is "more than 179 days" or "180 days or more".

[bradiston]

16 minutes ago, Sato said:

Easy, married with a rich Thai woman !

And/or transfer only 400'000 Bath a year to Thailand and have to pay 0 Tax because of the allowed tax deductions.

 

 

I'm not sure the tax in Thailand on 400k is 0%. Up to 150k is exempt. The next  blocks are taxable at increments of 5%. So 150,001 - 300k is taxed at 5%, 300,001 - 500k at 10%, etc.

[The Cyclist]

7 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

According to the earlier post by @ballpoint where he had to hunt down the tax office that had red-flagged his passport with immigration, they sort of already do have some degree of synchronisation.

 

And also according to the poster, he was working and presumably paying taxes in Thailand prior to his audit. Which might account for his passport being flagged by the RD.

[jerrymahoney]

3 minutes ago, bradiston said:

I'm not sure the tax in Thailand on 400k is 0%. Up to 150k is exempt. The next  blocks are taxable at increments of 5%. So 150,001 - 300k is taxed at 5%, 300,001 - 500k at 10%, etc.

That's OK. He said that he is creative.

[paddypower]

7 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I'm not sure the masses are that lazy, perhaps they're more thrifty and less socially aware of the need to pay tax. Over 50% of the workforce has earnings in the informal sector or grey market, ranging form 1% to 100% of their earnings. Given that only 11% of the workforce file tax returns, it might be safe to assume that most of the informal workers don't pay any tax at all. So the problem is more about collection and enforcement rather than anything else.

Bang on. I keep arguing that the Revenue Dept ought to hire a bunch of talented auditors and send theme out there, doing net worth audits on the top 10%. My Thai massage lady has 7 bungalows for holiday rentals. she put it to me like this - if they ask me to pay more tax than I am getting away with paying, I would rather die.

Edited January 8 by paddypower
spell

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

I think it is "more than 179 days" or "180 days or more".

Perhaps I'm missing something but what is the difference between, 180 days or more, and, more than a cumulative 180 days?

[Sato]

1 minute ago, bradiston said:

I'm not sure the tax in Thailand on 400k is 0%. Up to 150k is exempt. The next  blocks are taxable at increments of 5%. So 150,001 - 300k is taxed at 5%, 300,001 - 500k at 10%, etc.

Depending on your situation up to 435'000 deductibles + 150'000 with 0 Tax. You could bring up to 585'000 Bath tax free into Thailand.

Check also how much money you can send tax free to your wife and your children to support them.