800.000 Baht account after I die - can the partner access the account

[lopburi3]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The way I hear it was it was possession was 9/10ths of the law. 

 

In any event, I want my wife to be able to take possession before bank starts their procession. 

The bank has procession now.  If normal account you could have ATM card and she would likely have some time to drain - technically fraud but may not be seen or enforced if eventual probate appear to be in her favor.

[proton]

3 minutes ago, it is what it is said:

 

if the account is not in joint names obviously that would be illegal

 

How? she has joint access even though not a joint account, they bank dont know who is alive or dead and why should they.

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, it is what it is said:

 

if the account is not in joint names obviously that would be illegal

Don't believe there is any issue with others using an ATM card with permission (done all the time) - it would be that the owners death removes such permissions.

[EVENKEEL]

12 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

To close  the account after making any legal distributions

 

I'm presuming the 800k account is for immigration purposes which cannot be a joint account.

If I have a bank account with the 800K. I die and someone I know has my online info and transfer money out or use my ATM card to MT the account. You're saying they (police) will go to immigration and track down my bank account, without myself having a will or anything official on paper.

[pagallim]

I'm a volunteer case worker for a military charity, and very recently was involved with a person who had died here, intestate, and with no next of kin in Thailand.   He died in hospital, who wanted a sum of money paid before they would release the body for burial.   I was able to get hold of his bank book, which hadn't been updated for a few months, and went to his bank to get it updated.   I was in possession of a Consular Letter from his Embassy, appointing me as the representative of the deceased Next of Kin.   

 

The amount in his account was very modest, and would have covered only part of his hospital bill, and that of his funeral.   The bank were adamant that the monies in the account would only be released to a Thai court appointed Estate Administrator (effectively an official Executor in the UK).   The hospital themselves contacted the bank, but met the same response.

 

I made an enquiry with a local law firm for an estimate of costs for an Estate Administrator to be appointed, and was quoted 150,000 baht, plus costs and court fees/tax etc.   The costs, given they would have to trace a Next of Kin, get power of attorney from them, were likely to be substantial.   This estimate was far in excess of the actual amount in the individuals account, so there the money still sits.

 

Back to the OP, a will obviously will take a lot  of the hassle dealing with the estate away, but vitally important is that the will contains and details specifically the appointment of the wife/partner or whoever as the Estate Administrator.   

 

Sensiblly though, there will be expenses associated with the funeral and living costs, which if the bulk of the family funds are held in the single account of the deceased, the wife/partner should have somewhere a kind of 'open in emergency' envelope detailing PIN numbers of the account to make it easy for them.

 

This link has a lot of useful information:

 

https://www.juslaws.com/civil-litigation/inheritance-succession

[jerrymahoney]

12 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Banks are not able to grant authority for third parties to access the cash of deceased customers, courts appointing administrators/'probate' do that.

Sure but the operative question to some on here is: How will the bank (ever) find out?

[pagallim]

11 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Sure but the operative question to some on here is: How will the bank (ever) find out?

 

Back to my previous post, on being shown copies of the paperwork sent by the hospital to the Embassy, i.e. copy of passport, medical death certificate in both Thai and English (not to be confused with the actual Death Certificate issued by an Amphur), the bank froze the account.   With an account not being frozen through not being informed of the death of the account holder, any withdrawal made from the account would be viewed as having the permission of the account holder, the same as if they were still alive and somebody else was using their card/PIN.

[Liverpool Lou]

19 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

12 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Banks are not able to grant authority for third parties to access the cash of deceased customers, courts appointing administrators/'probate' do that.

Sure but the operative question to some on here is: How will the bank (ever) find out?

How would the bank ever find out what?   

[VocalNeal]

13 hours ago, riclag said:

my wife who knows everything said upon my death she can get the funds!

 

Yes if you have written that into a will. A mate of mine's widow is waiting for permission from the family abroad so she can access the money.

[Liverpool Lou]

11 hours ago, Denim said:

Well...how will we know you are dead ?

The police don't tell us nor does anyone else. Unless the sum is very large just withdraw it with the ATM card.

"The police don't tell us nor does anyone else".

That's what she thinks!  I wonder how many deceased foreigner's accounts she's had to deal with?  Chances are, statistically, none.

 

All foreigner's deaths have to be reported to the police.

The police attend the foreigners residence...obviously...to secure personal items, passport, etc., including passbooks, ATM cards.

Police inform the relevant embassy and from there the family and bank would be informed if there's evidence of bank assets however small. 

It's at that stage that any illegal, post-death withdrawals (thefts) from the deceased account would be seen and any action could be instigated.

Ask the bank if their ignorant staffer would put that instruction in writing for future reference!

 

[Liverpool Lou]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

11 hours ago, Denim said:

Before anyone jumps down my throat I am merely repeating the bizarre exchange we had at the bank and in no way suggest this is what you should do.

 

We will find a better, more legal solution. 

 

 

If and when you find a better solution can you post it here please.

It's not difficult to know the legal solution as opposed to the daft bank employee's recommendation of theft and it has already been posted here!

[Liverpool Lou]

11 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

My wife has my password and can just transfer it out via the Krungsri app. 

Not legally, she can't.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, proton said:

2 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

So the bank will see that you made a large withdrawal from your account after you are dead.

 

Nice.

The bank does not know if you are alive or dead do they, mrs took money out of my account yesterday, I could have been dead for all they know

The point is that you were not dead yesterday, if you were, the police would have been involved in that incidence.  You really do not know that the police and embassies and families are involved in all foreigners' deaths enquiries?

[Andrew Dwyer]

Make a will to give your wife/partner access to your bank account funds upon your passing.

 

Be prepared that this could take months, if your wife/partner is not financially stable ( job or money in her bank account ) then make a short term solution for her to deal with immediate financial matters.

Whether you choose money in the safe, money in her account or any other method is up to you.

 

Using the ATM card and pin method is not advisable and could cause problems as stated above many times.

[Galong]

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

As has been said bank can not act on a will - it must go to court first and that takes months.

This is how my reputable lawyer said we should do it. We can check with him to see if this will end up being a long process. 

Unless I die suddenly and don't have time to do it, I'll shift way more money than she needs to keep her going before I depart. 

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, Galong said:

My Will lists my bank accounts and gives her full access to my money upon my death.

You can bequeath but neither you nor your banks can give anyone access to your accounts after your death until the administration/'probate' procedure had been completed. 

It would not be legal, no matter what your will stated, for her to use the account (nor for the banks to distribute deceased's assets) after your death without court approved administration.   That is could, physically, be done illegally is beside the point.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

As has been said bank can not act on a will - it must go to court first and that takes months.

Could take months, not necessarily does.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

In the US, the first thing you do when a loved one dies is go clean out the safe deposit box before the bank knows of the death. 

 

It's not the bank's money, it's our money. 

In the case of a death, it is not "our" money, it is an asset of the deceased's estate until probate is authorised. That "first thing" is called theft.

Would the bank not be curious as to why someone who is not the box holder would be accessing it and then comment on it when they were subsequently advised of the death? 

[Galong]

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You can bequeath but neither you nor your banks can give anyone access to your accounts after your death until the administration/'probate' procedure had been completed. 

....  That is could, physically, be done illegally is beside the point.

I was only going by what our lawyer said. I'm NOT a lawyer. I doubt many of the comments here are from lawyers. 

I mentioned NOTHING about doing anything ILLEGAL. I wouldn't dream of testing the legal system here and neither would my wife.  She has money. If, in fact, all of this has to go through the courts, then that's fine. I'll check with our lawyer again and specifically ask about the courts needing to get involved before the money can be distributed. That's all that needs to be said on this subject. 

[Lacessit]

Your partner can only access the 800K if she is the beneficiary of that account in your will, and probate has been granted.

Probate usually takes six months here. I have a joint account with my GF which would be enough for her to live on for 18 months, while she waits for her inheritance.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

2 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

The bank will at some point receive an official time of death.

Why would the bank be notified of a death?

Because those funds belong to the deceased's estate, not to the bank, not the wife or girlfriend, and assets of a deceased's estate have to be frozen by law until 'probate' is authorised by a court.

Edited January 20 by Liverpool Lou

[pagallim]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Could take months, not necessarily does.

 

Indeed, a Thai will, specifying the individual to be appointed as Estate Administrator, would make the process happen quite quickly.   Failure to specify an EA will result in the court having to establish family rights, and in the case of family being in deceased home country, can take a long time through contact and authorisation.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

The way I hear it was it was possession was 9/10ths of the law. 

 

In any event, I want my wife to be able to take possession before bank starts their procession. 

That is an adage and is not literally true.    After your death it doesn't matter what you wanted if it doesn't follow the law.  In practice, it may be physically possible but, then, so is legal action for fraud or theft if it is discovered...that's the 1/10th that some people seem to forget about. 

[jerrymahoney]

13 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Your partner can only access the 800K if she is the beneficiary of that account in your will, and probate has been granted.

Probate usually takes six months here. I have a joint account with my GF which would be enough for her to live on for 18 months, while she waits for her inheritance.

Note that in Thailand a life insurance policy is payable upon death with no probate required.

[lopburi3]

As said there is no simple work around using the 800k in bank retirement extension under current rules - the best you can do is lower bank deposit to 400k when authorized.

 

So this makes the marriage extension much more attractive for those with that option - only need 400k in bank several months a year.

 

If dead set against marriage extension or not legal marriage the retirement income could be an option for many using the 800k method just for it being simple.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, proton said:

 

How? she has joint access even though not a joint account, they bank dont know who is alive or dead and why should they.

She doesn't have legal access before your death or after your death until 'probate' is completed.  The bank will know at some stage and they should know because those funds (however insignificant) do not belong to your wife and the bank does not have authorisation to distribute the funds in your account to anyone else.  If it turned out that anyone else had a claim to those funds there could be issues if she had stolen them or if the bank had just decided to dish them out willy nilly.

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, jerrymahoney said:

Note that in Thailand a life insurance policy is payable upon death with no probate required.

Not always the best choice for longevity however.  

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

If I have a bank account with the 800K. I die and someone I know has my online info and transfer money out or use my ATM card to MT the account. You're saying they (police) will go to immigration and track down my bank account, without myself having a will or anything official on paper.

"I die and someone I know has my online info and transfer money out..."

What he's saying is that action would be illegal after your death until 'probate'/administration is approved.  If anyone else had a legal claim to those funds as a potential beneficiary of your estate after your dying intestate, legal action could be taken against those who defrauded your estate after your death.

[pagallim]

Some more information on obtaining Estate Administrator status through a Thai court.   This link is in Thai, so just use Google Translate to get it to English:  https://www3.ago.go.th/humanrights/trustee/

[jerrymahoney]

12 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Not always the best choice for longevity however.  

So always, still, be worth a lot more alive than dead. But as with the comment I quoted, it is a way to get some money into the wife's hands promptly and then wait for things to clear in my home country where, again, things are set up in no-probate accounts.