Trump is dominating the primaries. That doesn’t mean he’ll beat Biden

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts contravening our Community Standards have been removed.

[candide]

1 hour ago, frank83628 said:

she said it, was it once?...... there are many other appearances she's made where she has said he was illegitimate. 

and the difference..well... in 2016 did the dems change the voting system and push mail in ballots,  NO, were there so many irregularities in the count in 2016, NO..... and is there an unedited version of him speaking at this time? or perhaps one from a right wind site, pretty sure there would be differences between the 2

Lol! Your imaginary irregularities have been debunked by recounts and audits, including by GOP partisan audits. You have nothing.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Teacher, Teacher, I know this one!

 

The street protest had guns and killed a lot of people, and the people attempting to forcefully  overthrow the United States Government had no guns and did not kill anyone. 

Whataboutary and false equivalence rolled into one.

[candide]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

It's amazing that people don't see the difference between a street protest that degenerates into a riot and a mob that storms the Capitol in an attempt to prevent the Constitutional certification of a legitimate election outcome.

It's because they have no other arguments tha  this false equivalence.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

I think thirty-five dead. 

 

How many government offices were damaged or destroyed, and how many government proceedings were interfered with? 

 

I think that if you're the left and interfere with congress, you get a pass, but if you're on the right and interfere with congress you go to jail. 

 

I think if you firebomb an anti-abortion office at night you get a pass, but if you peacefully protest in from of an abortion clinic during the day you go to jail. 

 

 

 

We should have a thread on that.

[heybruce]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I think had Biden lost, and Biden supporters has rioted in the Capital the press would be calling them heroes and none of them would be in jail. 

 

I think Trump wanted a protest. I do not think Trump was trying to overthrow United States Government. You do, whatever. 

Your first assumption is ridiculously wrong.

 

Trump just wanted to overturn a legitimate election, thereby overthrowing democracy.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

 

Nope, no lies in there.  At least not by me.  Or are you denying that the article mentioned a 20% tax on those making $100 million a year and a tax on share buybacks?

It was a lie, and now you are doubling down on the lie.  You stated the 20% as a fact and link to the article to support that fact. The article clearly guessed that it might be a 20% tax. I showed this a couple times, and you keep lying. 

 

That's the problem with leftists, the truth is always subjective you guys. 

 

"Truth is not a left-wing value." 

[candide]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I think had Biden lost, and Biden supporters has rioted in the Capital the press would be calling them heroes and none of them would be in jail. 

 

I think Trump wanted a protest. I do not think Trump was trying to overthrow United States Government. You do, whatever. 

Lol! Using imaginary situations as arguments! 

 

An interesting coincidence: while they were assaulting the Capitol, instead of asking them to stop it, Trump was calling congressmen to persuade them to block the certification.

[heybruce]

Borderline off-topic, but since some people refuse to acknowledge how serious Jan 6:

 

"The attack was carried out by a diverse coalition of Trump supporters including Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, Three-Percenter militia members, QAnon followers, and at least one bomber who remains unidentified. Leadership of both the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys were later convicted of plotting a seditious conspiracy to use violence to interfere with the transfer of power, while the person or persons responsible for constructing and placing two pipe bombs are still wanted by law enforcement. Prior to January 6, there was a noticeable increase of traffic from militia discussion forums to an obscure website about the Capitol complex's underground tunnel system, prompting the site's owner to alert the FBI."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planning_of_the_January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack

 

"A separate criminal filing released Wednesday afternoon — charging Patrick McCaughey III for pinning a police officer with a shield, which led to a now- iconic image of the brutality of the insurrection — described leaders among the rioters issuing marching orders to more effectively fight police."

"“Unidentified rioters are heard instructing the front line of rioters to make a ‘shield wall‘ to prevent law enforcement from controlling rioters with oleoresin capsicum spray,“ according to the affidavit from a deputy U.S. marshal."  https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/20/fbi-evidence-capitol-insurrection-plan-460836

 

"A document, titled “1776 Returns,” which federal prosecutors said was used by the leader of the Proud Boys, lays out a plan to occupy Capitol buildings on Jan. 6, 2021, using covert operators to let "patriots" inside government offices in an apparent effort to force a new election."

"Enrique Tarrio, the former leader of the Proud Boys, and four other members were indicted on seditious conspiracy charges this month. Tarrio has twice been ordered detained until trial."  https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/court-document-proud-boys-case-laid-plan-occupy-capitol-buildings-jan-rcna33755

 

I found the above with little trouble.  There are many other sources showing that the attack was planned, organized and executed with the intent to overturn the election or worse.

[Yellowtail]

Just now, candide said:

Lol! Using imaginary situations as arguments! 

 

An interesting coincidence: while they were assaulting the Capitol, instead of asking them to stop it, Trump was calling congressmen to persuade them to block the certification.

"Assaulting" without guns, in an attempt to overthrow the United States Government. 

[heybruce]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

It was a lie, and now you are doubling down on the lie.  You stated the 20% as a fact and link to the article to support that fact. The article clearly guessed that it might be a 20% tax. I showed this a couple times, and you keep lying. 

 

That's the problem with leftists, the truth is always subjective you guys. 

 

"Truth is not a left-wing value." 

No, the article described the 20% tax and the tax on share buybacks.  Is that really the best you can come up with in defending your claim that I lied?

 

Rich hearing a Trump defender state that the truth is subjective to leftists.  Don't you think claiming the election was stolen without any credible evidence makes a mockery of truth?

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

"Assaulting" without guns, in an attempt to overthrow the United States Government. 

Read the post immediately above yours.

[candide]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

"Assaulting" without guns, in an attempt to overthrow the United States Government. 

More precisely in an attempt to block an official process of certification by the congress. Which they actually succeeded to do for a few hours.

[Yellowtail]

Just now, heybruce said:

Borderline off-topic, but since some people refuse to acknowledge how serious Jan 6:

 

"The attack was carried out by a diverse coalition of Trump supporters including Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, Three-Percenter militia members, QAnon followers, and at least one bomber who remains unidentified. Leadership of both the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys were later convicted of plotting a seditious conspiracy to use violence to interfere with the transfer of power, while the person or persons responsible for constructing and placing two pipe bombs are still wanted by law enforcement. Prior to January 6, there was a noticeable increase of traffic from militia discussion forums to an obscure website about the Capitol complex's underground tunnel system, prompting the site's owner to alert the FBI."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planning_of_the_January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack

 

"A separate criminal filing released Wednesday afternoon — charging Patrick McCaughey III for pinning a police officer with a shield, which led to a now- iconic image of the brutality of the insurrection — described leaders among the rioters issuing marching orders to more effectively fight police."

"“Unidentified rioters are heard instructing the front line of rioters to make a ‘shield wall‘ to prevent law enforcement from controlling rioters with oleoresin capsicum spray,“ according to the affidavit from a deputy U.S. marshal."  https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/20/fbi-evidence-capitol-insurrection-plan-460836

 

"A document, titled “1776 Returns,” which federal prosecutors said was used by the leader of the Proud Boys, lays out a plan to occupy Capitol buildings on Jan. 6, 2021, using covert operators to let "patriots" inside government offices in an apparent effort to force a new election."

"Enrique Tarrio, the former leader of the Proud Boys, and four other members were indicted on seditious conspiracy charges this month. Tarrio has twice been ordered detained until trial."  https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/court-document-proud-boys-case-laid-plan-occupy-capitol-buildings-jan-rcna33755

 

I found the above with little trouble.  There are many other sources showing that the attack was planned, organized and executed with the intent to overturn the election or worse.

How many of the "insurrectionists" in the Capital had guns, and how many people were killed the Capital, excluding the one unarmed female veteran that was shot by law enforcement for climbing through a broken window.?

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, candide said:

More precisely in an attempt to block an official process of certification by the congress. Which they actually succeeded to do for a few hours.

And Hamas supports barged in and shut congress down for a while, and just got kicked out. 

 

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Read the post immediately above yours.

Zero people with guns in the Capital, and zero people killed it the Capital, except the one female veteran that was shot for climbing through a broken window. 

 

Edited February 9 by Yellowtail
ww

[Hanaguma]

31 minutes ago, heybruce said:

No, you have flunked big time.  The street protests were no more an attempt to disrupt government or overturn an election than the hate crimes that took off during the Trump Presidency.  The attack on the Capitol attempted both.

 

I understand why the same suspects keep repeating the same weak deflection; it's all you've got.  That doesn't change the fact that the deflection is weak.

 

I'm assuming you are intelligent enough to understand that random street crime is not the same as an attack on the nation's Capitol while Congress is in session performing a critical Constitutional duty.  Have I overestimated you intelligence?

I dont think the vast majority of the Jan 6 rioters had the intellectual horsepower to attempt anything so complicated. They were just venting their frustration at losing and got caught up in the moment. Hence their lack of preparation, guns, etc. They had exactly zero chance of doing anything other than being a nuisance.  

 

The street protests actually WERE an attempt to disrupt government, albeit at the local level. Police were targeted, municipal property destroyed, etc.  IMHO far more serious and dangerous than January 6, given the scale and destruction that happened. But that is a topic for another day. 

[candide]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

And Hamas supports barged in and shut congress down for a while, and just got kicked out. 

 

Lame deflection 

[candide]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I dont think the vast majority of the Jan 6 rioters had the intellectual horsepower to attempt anything so complicated. They were just venting their frustration at losing and got caught up in the moment. Hence their lack of preparation, guns, etc. They had exactly zero chance of doing anything other than being a nuisance.  

 

The street protests actually WERE an attempt to disrupt government, albeit at the local level. Police were targeted, municipal property destroyed, etc.  IMHO far more serious and dangerous than January 6, given the scale and destruction that happened. But that is a topic for another day. 

Whatever the Jan.6 protesters' motivation, they did it!

 

And the BLM protests did not aim at blocking or overturning the certification of elections, including local elections.

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, frank83628 said:

she said it, was it once?...... there are many other appearances she's made where she has said he was illegitimate. 

and the difference..well... in 2016 did the dems change the voting system and push mail in ballots,  NO, were there so many irregularities in the count in 2016, NO..... and is there an unedited version of him speaking at this time? or perhaps one from a right wind site, pretty sure there would be differences between the 2

Your post illustrates that you don't understand any of this.

 

Hillary was not complaining about voter fraud in 2016. Instead, she complained about Russian interference in the election.

 

Every election has some amount of fraud and glitches, but not enough to impact the result.

 

But you claim that the 2020 election was stolen, although you offer no proof.

 

I do have proof of attempted fraud in 2020 - Trump tried to convince the Georgia Secretary of State to find 11,000 votes for him.

Edited February 9 by Danderman123

[Danderman123]

29 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

"Assaulting" without guns, in an attempt to overthrow the United States Government. 

Trump Extremists Brought Numerous Guns on January 6, Evidence Shows

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Your post illustrates that you don't understand any of this.

 

Hillary was not complaining about voter fraud in 2016. Instead, she complained about Russian interference in the election.

 

Every election has some amount of fraud and glitches, but not enough to impact the result.

 

But you claim that the 2020 election was stolen, although you offer no proof.

 

I do have proof of attempted fraud in 2020 - Trump tried to convince the Georgia Secretary of State to find 11,000 votes for him.

Lame defection

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

Trump Extremists Brought Numerous Guns on January 6, Evidence Shows

Yes, some brought their cars also, but they did not drive them into the Capital and run people over with them.

 

Again, zero people with guns in the Capital, and zero people killed it the Capital, except the one female veteran that was shot for climbing through a broken window.

[Danderman123]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Lame defection

Others here claim the 2020 election was stolen. Do you agree with them?

[heybruce]

38 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

How many of the "insurrectionists" in the Capital had guns, and how many people were killed the Capital, excluding the one unarmed female veteran that was shot by law enforcement for climbing through a broken window.?

They tried:

 

"The chatter included reports of a man with an AR-15 in a tree on Constitution Avenue who was accompanied by two men with pistols on their hips. Another officer radioed, “I’ve got three men walking down the street in fatigues carrying AR-15s, copy, at 14th and Independence.”

"The recordings aired during the June 28 hearing in which former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson testified that Trump reportedly “was angry that we weren’t letting people through the [metal detectors] with weapons.”"  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-weapons-deadly-dangerous/

 

And they had other weapons:

 

"According to court documents reviewed by CBS News, 39 defendants have been accused of wielding "deadly or dangerous" weapons that weren't firearms, including Tasers, tomahawk axes, crowbars, flagpoles, a knife, an ice axe, a firecracker, a stun gun, baseball bats, fire extinguishers, a wooden club and chemical spray."  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-weapons-deadly-dangerous/

 

They also tried to have weapons nearby:

 

"In a court document filed Monday seeking the continued detention of Kenneth Harrelson, one of a dozen members of the Oath Keepers charged in a sweeping conspiracy case against the group, prosecutors cited newly discovered communications allegedly showing members discussing storing their weapons at a Comfort Inn in Arlington, Virginia, knowing that possessing such arms within Washington, D.C., would be illegal."  https://abcnews.go.com/US/oath-keepers-stashed-weapons-hotel-potential-jan-violence/story?id=77048420

 

Your attempts to minimize Jan 6 are really weak.

 

 

 

Edited February 9 by heybruce

[heybruce]

27 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I dont think the vast majority of the Jan 6 rioters had the intellectual horsepower to attempt anything so complicated. They were just venting their frustration at losing and got caught up in the moment. Hence their lack of preparation, guns, etc. They had exactly zero chance of doing anything other than being a nuisance.  

 

The street protests actually WERE an attempt to disrupt government, albeit at the local level. Police were targeted, municipal property destroyed, etc.  IMHO far more serious and dangerous than January 6, given the scale and destruction that happened. But that is a topic for another day. 

Yes, the majority were probably useful idiots.  However there clearly was an organized attempt to use these useful idiots to seize the Capitol and hostages, as described above.

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Teacher, Teacher, I know this one!

 

The street protest had guns and killed a lot of people, and the people attempting to forcefully  overthrow the United States Government had no guns and did not kill anyone. 

Not a great legal defense for the insurrectionists - "other people committed crimes, too".

[heybruce]

30 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Zero people with guns in the Capital, and zero people killed it the Capital, except the one female veteran that was shot for climbing through a broken window. 

 

Technically not a lie, but certainly an attempt to mislead.

 

"Babbitt attempted to climb through a shattered window beside a barricaded door into the Speaker's Lobby,"  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ashli_Babbitt

[heybruce]

57 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

And Hamas supports barged in and shut congress down for a while, and just got kicked out. 

 

I did a quick search on "hamas supporters disrupt congress" and found nothing.  You'll have to provide a link.

[frank83628]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

Hey, progress!  You are at least admitting that Russia did interfere in the election.

 

Whether the interference significantly influenced the outcome is impossible to know.  We can't rerun history.

no, dont get too excited, and no, i am not agreeing with anything i was asking 'IF'.
so..  IF you say there was then what are they? saying someone had links isn't proof they were in cahoots with Putin and it was untoward,  to what level are these links, it makes a huge difference??
A bought a car from B is not Russian collusion. A spoke to B in their political capacity is not Russian collusion... if A took money from B for political influence then thats i think that a bit dodgy.... so what was it?