How difficult is it to get a divorce? (continuing saga)

[notrub]

I had thought that I could walk away from a woman I mistakenly married last year but it seems to be not so easy.  I hear that some Thais marry several times in a village ceremony or something.  I have heard that divorce can be as simple as both parties going to the municipal and declaring there desire to be divorced.  But I also hear about people getting taken to the cleaners. I just want a simple solution .

 

We were married at the municipal in Buriram city properly witnessed etc..  We live 90km north is a small rural village.

 

Looking for some expert advice and/or comments please to prepare myself with the right questions before the first meeting with the lawyer (whom I already know).

 

I have a prenuptial and a registered usufruct on the land that I had purchased 8 years ago and gifted to her.  I own all the buildings etc. on the land and I have the right to use the land for my lifetime.  She will get everything (millions) on my death anyway whatever our marital status. 

 

I have a house and a fully equipped guest house.  My wife has been sleeping next door in the guest house for over a year.  It looks like she has no intention of going anywhere else for the moment; we are in the village of her birth and she lives like a princess (her latest crochet is always ready to go).

 

She thinks it is ok to look online for a 'New King' but if I simply speak to a woman in a friendly way the roof come down. (I was alerted to the attached by a friend).  I am finding that some women that I have spoken to will not continue even talking as friends after reflecting on my marital status.  'She could sue' is something that I have heard.  Sue who and for what?   

 

I have helped her and her family over the years to the tune of ponds dug, farm cabins built, wells bored, nieces educated, small fleet of motorbikes bought and a new car for her (off the top of my head).  I also built all these houses/pool etc. that will be hers on my death.  I stopped giving her 5000 baht a month pocket money some time ago when she complained that it was not enough. 

 

Her family are very nice btw; it is only she who is a lazy, incurious, stupid narcissist. 

 

Yes, yes; the name is Sucker - not Tucker.  But she has gone too far now and I must escape.

 

So help me plan to get rid of her please.  I just realized that as I have an usufruct on the land and I own the buildings; I don't have to go (duh) even if she is next door.  But it seems that I do have to divorce her if I want to make any new friends who are female, even if they are in another area far away.  I am 75, btw, do not drink and really would simply like some more friends and a simple life.

 

Thanks in advance for comments.

[KhunLA]

The divorce, as always, will be as simple or as difficult as she makes it.

 

Did you ask her for a divorce yet ?  If she agrees, uncontested, then it's about 15 mins of paperwork (no prep) at the office, same as getting married.

 

If she's been living away from you, not same house, then that would fall under abandonment, and grounds for divorce for you.  

[Dan O]

5 minutes ago, notrub said:

I had thought that I could walk away from a woman I mistakenly married last year but it seems to be not so easy.  I hear that some Thais marry several times in a village ceremony or something.  I have heard that divorce can be as simple as both parties going to the municipal and declaring there desire to be divorced.  But I also hear about people getting taken to the cleaners. I just want a simple solution .

 

We were married at the municipal in Buriram city properly witnessed etc..  We live 90km north is a small rural village.

 

Looking for some expert advice and/or comments please to prepare myself with the right questions before the first meeting with the lawyer (whom I already know).

 

I have a prenuptial and a registered usufruct on the land that I had purchased 8 years ago and gifted to her.  I own all the buildings etc. on the land and I have the right to use the land for my lifetime.  She will get everything (millions) on my death anyway whatever our marital status. 

 

I have a house and a fully equipped guest house.  My wife has been sleeping next door in the guest house for over a year.  It looks like she has no intention of going anywhere else for the moment; we are in the village of her birth and she lives like a princess (her latest crochet is always ready to go).

 

She thinks it is ok to look online for a 'New King' but if I simply speak to a woman in a friendly way the roof come down. (I was alerted to the attached by a friend).  I am finding that some women that I have spoken to will not continue even talking as friends after reflecting on my marital status.  'She could sue' is something that I have heard.  Sue who and for what?   

 

I have helped her and her family over the years to the tune of ponds dug, farm cabins built, wells bored, nieces educated, small fleet of motorbikes bought and a new car for her (off the top of my head).  I also built all these houses/pool etc. that will be hers on my death.  I stopped giving her 5000 baht a month pocket money some time ago when she complained that it was not enough. 

 

Her family are very nice btw; it is only she who is a lazy, incurious, stupid narcissist. 

 

Yes, yes; the name is Sucker - not Tucker.  But she has gone too far now and I must escape.

 

So help me plan to get rid of her please.  I just realized that as I have an usufruct on the land and I own the buildings; I don't have to go (duh) even if she is next door.  But it seems that I do have to divorce her if I want to make any new friends who are female, even if they are in another area far away.  I am 75, btw, do not drink and really would simply like some more friends and a simple life.

 

Thanks in advance for comments.

 

 

Tough situation and I feel for your dilemma. Being in her village makes it really tough to get her out if the guest house after divorce and that will probably continue to hound you in the future.  If you do divorce and can't get her off the property that could be extremely awkward when she finds her next "king" especially if its a Thai man.  If you can enforce the fact that you have a valid well written usufact and you do actually own the buildings and get a divorce then give her notice and tear down the guest house so she has no house on the property or conduct endless "renovations" to it and make it uninhabitable. Selling or renting your usafact rights and moving  out to a healthy environment if you can would be what I would do but that is not an easy option here. 

[uttradit]

If you have an income get in car, drive to Hua Hin. Live there. Don't look back. 

 

Never buy a house or land for a woman that you can't walk away from in 7 days.

[lopburi3]

31 minutes ago, notrub said:

I stopped giving her 5000 baht a month pocket money some time ago when she complained that it was not enough. 

Somewhat confused - you provide no support in a marriage where you mention millions.  Do not believe many wives of rich foreigners would be thrilled with 5k a month - am sure she has requests for that amount from friends and family almost daily.  Is this really 50% share of marriage?

[uttradit]

Just now, lopburi3 said:

Somewhat confused - you provide no support in a marriage where you mention millions.  Do not believe many wives of rich foreigners would be thrilled with 5k a month - am sure she has requests for that amount from friends and family almost daily.  Is this really 50% share of marriage?

She got a free house and land already. 

[BritManToo]

37 minutes ago, notrub said:

She thinks it is ok to look online for a 'New King'

Don't think you need to worry much about a 'new king', at 57 her pickings will be slim.

[lopburi3]

Just now, uttradit said:

She got a free house and land already. 

Not from post - he has kept control so nothing tangible at this point - but perhaps on his passing?  Maybe best to lie low? 

[proton]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Don't think you need to worry much about a 'new king', at 57 her pickings will be slim.

 

From Buri Ram, -seems to be the home of the most nutty, narcissistic, scammers and marriages gone wrong I have seen over the years.

Edited February 5 by proton

[uttradit]

1 minute ago, lopburi3 said:

Not from post - he has kept control so nothing tangible at this point - but perhaps on his passing?  Maybe best to lie low? 

Ask the lawyer how long to get it sold? Or walk. Go see the lawyer tomorrow would be best if you need the money. If you don't need it pack car and go.

 

 

[uttradit]

1 minute ago, proton said:

 

From Buri Ram, -seems to be the home of the most nutty, narcissistic, scammers and marriages gone wrong I have seen over the years.

Also the most unattractive along with Chaiyaphum. The women there in Chaiyaphum hit all the branches as they fell out from the ugly tree.

[ezzra]

How difficult is it to get a divorce? probably a lot harder than getting married, that's for sure...

[bigt3116]

43 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Selling or renting your usafact rights

 

Not allowed by law

[Fat is a type of crazy]

Not cool to post photos. Not fair with one side of story. Best to delete I think. 

[stupidfarang]

Best to enjoy your remaining years far far away from her and the family, as you said if you talk to a women all hell breaks out. Cut your loss and be happy far away. One other thing family is family, they may be nice but will always side with her.

[rumak]

46 minutes ago, uttradit said:

If you have an income get in car, drive to Hua Hin. Live there. Don't look back. 

 

Never buy a house or land for a woman that you can't walk away from in 7 days.

I have lived here ...... and witnessed and/or read these "stories"  over and over .   The advice given by uttradit ( obviously for those men NOT already in the OPs situation)  is by far the best of any other .  

Lawyers,  usafructs,  blah blah blah .     Putting a lot of money in others name puts you at their mercy ,  plain and simple.

And you are on their turf .

 

[rumak]

46 minutes ago, uttradit said:

Ask the lawyer how long to get it sold? Or walk. Go see the lawyer tomorrow would be best if you need the money. If you don't need it pack car and go.

 

 

It is always easy for us to give that "advice"  to others .  hahaha     but, it is the truth .  Of course there will always be a few Rambos here that think they will "win"  in a fight .    And maybe one or two do ......

[Georgealbert]

How difficult the divorce will be, will depend on what you hope to receive in the settlement.

 

If you choose to walk away and start a new life, an uncontested divorce can be done at the Amphur, but all the assists will be in the settlement statement, which is issued with the divorce certificate. That means you and her will need to have agreed everything in advance.

 

If you both can not agree, plus if there are any issues with the prenuptial and usufruct, or ownership of the buildings, it will need to be done at court and involve lawyers, the timescale is going to a lot longer. 
 

What you have done for the family in the past is irrelevant to the divorce. You call her lazy, incurious, stupid narcissist, but remember you married her last year, after knowing her for many years, as you gifted the land 8 years ago. From your post she has lived in the guest house for over a year, which seems to be from the time of the marriage. You also say you don't support her financially.

 

I am not aiming to criticize you, but being honest to what lawyers can bring up, as she will have a different version of events than you.

 

Sorry but only you can decide what is best for you, your future happiness, plus remember no one is getting any younger.

 

Wishing you the best and hope it gets resolved in a way that offers you some satisfaction.

 

Edited February 5 by Georgealbert

[uttradit]

24 minutes ago, rumak said:

It is always easy for us to give that "advice"  to others .  hahaha     but, it is the truth .  Of course there will always be a few Rambos here that think they will "win"  in a fight .    And maybe one or two do ......

Need a good lawyer and patience if he wants to get his money out.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, uttradit said:

Ask the lawyer how long to get it sold? Or walk. Go see the lawyer tomorrow would be best if you need the money. If you don't need it pack car and go.

Without POA, that ain't going to happen.   Best he can expect is maybe able to live there, which depending on a few factors, may not be the healthiest way forward.

 

Need to look over your shoulder when you are worth more dead than alive to other people.

 

For others ... don't invest more than you can lose.

[KhunLA]

@notrub This is what I would do.   Let her know, you know she's looking for LTR.   Tell her you'll 'let her' divorce you ... and, give her 200k baht (start at #), .... IF .. she'll sign a POA.

 

If not at 200k, then start to negotiate up to 500k, or what ever you are comfortable with.  As you state, you have millions invested, then sell and get out of dodge.

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, bigt3116 said:

 

Not allowed by law

what law? If Im reading the laws correctly, If the usufract is properly written and does not include specific reservation you can. According to section 1422 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand, a usufruct can further transfer his usufructuary rights to a third party. The owner of the property cannot sell the property or rent to a different person while the usufact is in force.

Edited February 5 by Dan O

[bigt3116]

16 minutes ago, Dan O said:

The owner of the property cannot sell the property

 

They can if the holder of the usurfuct agrees

 

As for transferring, I read the section you quoted and that seems to suggest you can, but other pages state you can't and yet others state you can with the owners permission.

 

Very confusing

[Dan O]

19 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

 

They can if the holder of the usurfuct agrees

 

As for transferring, I read the section you quoted and that seems to suggest you can, but other pages state you can't and yet others state you can with the owners permission.

 

Very confusing

you can if you have a properly written userfruct without the owners permission as long as the use isnt changed to something prohibited and the property is not damaged or affected negatively. Im sure it could be challenged like everything else in Thailand when it comes down to thai vs foreigner. 

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Im sure it could be challenged like everything else in Thailand when it comes down to thai vs foreigner. 

Which often makes good relationships more important than paperwork and worth the effort to keep in good order.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/5/2024 at 2:03 PM, notrub said:

I have a prenuptial and a registered usufruct on the land that I had purchased 8 years ago and gifted to her.  I own all the buildings etc. on the land and I have the right to use the land for my lifetime.  She will get everything (millions) on my death anyway whatever our marital status. 

LOL. If you don't want to be married to her why would you let her have anything after you die?

 

If this is actually a serious post ( YOU didn't own any land, even if you paid for it, so YOU were not "gifting" it ), and you have millions just walk away and enjoy using them to have a happy life. After two years she can apply for a divorce based on abandonment.

 

PS you may have a legal right to use the land etc, but good luck with that if she doesn't want you there.

[notrub]

Yes TBL I never owned the land (well spotted).  I gifted her nearly 500,000 THB used to purchase the land and in exchange I got a usufruct contract. I have spent the last ~ 8 years improving the land and constructing the various buildings and paying 100% for all. 

 

I had thought that I was going to live here forever.

 

My now wife was a non participant and I was too focused and busy to notice.  You are right about the 'good luck getting rid of her' as the land is in her village of birth.

 

I don't quite understand the 'using them to have a happy life' comment.  My 'Happy Life' for the past years has been spent as a general contractor w/o any help from his partner (now wife).  The only comments I got were after the work was completed and they were suggestions as to how much better it would have been had I done something or another a bit differently.  After no comments when asked for pre-construction suggestions.

 

btw- Her family are brilliant and this could be one reason why I did not realize what a lazy person she is.

 

She owns the land and the usufruct expires when I die.  The condition of the buildings, pool etc. and their contents/equipment when she takes possession will depend on her.  I own everything on the land. 

 

I will be seeing the lawyer (John Spooner, Isaan Lawyers, Korat) next week and will post the results.

 

My question will be:  Just how much grief, emotional and financial, can she cause me? 

 

Thanks for your ongoing interest in my dilemma.🙏🏼

 

 

[Njoku]

On 2/5/2024 at 10:23 AM, KhunLA said:

@notrub This is what I would do.   Let her know, you know she's looking for LTR.   Tell her you'll 'let her' divorce you ... and, give her 200k baht (start at #), .... IF .. she'll sign a POA.

 

If not at 200k, then start to negotiate up to 500k, or what ever you are comfortable with.  As you state, you have millions invested, then sell and get out of dodge.

The ex holds all the cards, she can make it easy or make it hard, she will feel she doesn't have to move, he has a problem, her village and her land, she aint going nowhere, like a few here suggested he move, which would be my choice as id feel a lot more secure where she is not, ask for the divorce likely she will ask for some sort of settlement, if you dont want too settle, you can and I would if I was staying put put up a big fence around the house you live in with a new unshared driveway, if you decide to leave because she's giving you a hard time consider pulling the buildings down on the day you leave....you could also use the fact you own the buildings for her to pay you to leave them, for the rest of you guys who want to plonk a house on the gfs/wifes land build a place on stumps in sections that could be dismantled and taken away, a house dont need to be on a concrete slab and built with concrete block, metal sub floor and light weight cladding insulated same same...

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/11/2024 at 5:11 PM, notrub said:

I don't quite understand the 'using them to have a happy life' comment.  My 'Happy Life' for the past years has been spent as a general contractor w/o any help from his partner (now wife).  The only comments I got were after the work was completed and they were suggestions as to how much better it would have been had I done something or another a bit differently.  After no comments when asked for pre-construction suggestions.

Using them referred to the money, not a person.

 

I never got any thanks for the work I did for her and her family, even if they asked me to do it, at my own expense.

 

If I could do it over, I'd never go live near them, and I'd never do anything for them. They were the cause of my divorce as they sabotaged me with her. Before we moved to the village we were both happy.