Biden's own DOJ says he is an 'elderly man with a poor memory': Classified document case

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Indeed. Which begs the question as to why the President has not done either of these things, if only to calm the public's entirely reasonable fears and also to stick a knife into that line of attack by the GOP. 

Let’s start with the fact he’s never been dragged off to the Walter Reed Memorial Hospital in the middle of the night to be administered the Montreal Cognitive Assessment Test.

 

Surely if that ever did happen to a President the nation deserves to know why.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

From the NYT's coverage:

 

 

Feb. 8, 2024, 8:21 p.m. ET

Maggie Haberman

It’s hard to see how this helped Biden’s political case. Several Democratic operatives have sent panicked texts about how that press conference went.

 

--------------------------------

 

Feb. 8, 2024, 8:16 p.m. ET

Peter Baker

There will be much second guessing about whether Biden should have spoken and whether he handled it well. He was feisty and showed a certain anger over questions about his capacity. He exhibited emotion in discussing the death of his son Beau. He denied some of the assertions in the report and tried to reset the narrative in the way he wanted to. Whether it worked, that’s not as clear.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/08/us/biden-documents-trump-nevada-news

 

[thaibeachlovers]

55 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

There is a political element to this, in the language used by the Republican author,  but the fact is what Biden did was not good and warranted investigation. Saw his press conference and it mostly wasn't terrible, except for confusing Mexico with Egypt, but will certainly not help address peoples valid concerns about his age now let alone over the next 4 years. Pass the baton Joe. It's time.  

Ah, so if the author is a Republican he's biased then?

Perhaps he was just telling the truth, and politics didn't come into it, especially as he seems to be giving Biden a pass.

 

However, from Biden's reaction I don't give his career prospects much hope, especially if Biden wins. Sometimes the truth hurts.

 

As for confusing Mexico with Egypt, Biden isn't a resident of some old folks home, for which it would be acceptable, he's running for the leader of the free world, and if he doesn't know the difference between Mexico and Egypt, that should be an automatic fail.

[thaicurious]

12 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Come on, are you REALLY going to dredge up that old dodge? There was no mention of poor Joe and his stutter when we was Senator, or Vice President. Yet when he aged and began to slow down mentally it suddenly became front and centre. As if to give him a shield from legitimate criticism- "how DARE you attack a man with a handicap!"

 

All you need to do is listen to him speak 20 years ago, 10 years ago, and today. The difference is remarkable, and frankly scary. Joe was never too sharp, but at least he was moderately articulate. He had more choices of voice than angry curmudgeon.  There has been a decline, and it is becoming harder and harder to hide.

 

What old dodge? I don't recall <wink>

 

He had periods of better control over it than at other times. So what? That doesn't make him less of who he always is and certainly his stutter, controlled or not, doesn't make him any less of a person. Your issues with his stutter does however lessen you.

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, thaicurious said:

 

What old dodge? I don't recall <wink>

 

He had periods of better control over it than at other times. So what? That doesn't make him less of who he always is and certainly his stutter, controlled or not, doesn't make him any less of a person. Your issues with his stutter does however lessen you.

I have no issue with stuttering.  Only with it being used as a way for criticism of Biden to be waved off. His problem isn't his stutter- it never was in the past, never mentioned AFAIK.  

 

Stuttering doesn't make a man forget names, and faces, and dates. 

[thaicurious]

16 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I kind of personally agree - if anyone of us had to talk a lot there would be gaffes a plenty even though we may know the topic in the big picture - and he has a good team around him. Part of being  an effective president though is to be strong and be seen to be strong. A combination of his gentle nature, speech impediments,  and the ravages of time are not in his favour. The very fact he can't see that it's time to pass the baton  is evidence itself  of his potentially poor judgement in my opinion. 

 

He was known for his gaffes way before he was known for his age. You're right that he does put good people around him and we can be certain they are not yes men. I'm certain they let him know if he screws up. What I was most impressed with wasn't just his not losing his train of thought even upon confusing two issues for mere seconds, rather, that he held it together even in that cacophony of a press corp. I was listening on just on TV on my comfy couch where I could concentrate but couldn't pick out the questions he was able to focus on.

 

To all the ageism, which I'd say was warranted in a case of Sen. Feinstein at the end of her life which I wouldn't even have called ageism but reality, to me, even though he's obviously dealing with either arthritis or whatever causes that reduced range of motion, Biden doesn't seem to approach life with the perspective that time is ravaging him. I find that refreshing.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

His problem isn't his stutter- it never was in the past, never mentioned AFAIK.  

 

How's your memory doing? Never mentioned in the past?

 

Sep 23, 2020

 

Jan 12, 2021

 

 

Harmful Stuttering Myths Perpetuated by Major Media Outlets

 

May 12, 2022

 

"In fact, many people can predict when they will stutter and often attempt to change the triggering word. To a naive listener, these attempts at concealing stuttering can often look like the person forgot the word they originally attempted to say.

 

Even if media outlets claim ignorance, they still inflict potential harm to many current and future generations of children who stutter. Perpetuating misinformation like this seemingly gives others permission to critique and mock someone who stutters. There should be no room to tolerate ableist and stigmatizing attacks on differences or disorders. Irrespective of politics, we must unite in our condemnation of such rhetoric and help educate society about stuttering."

 

https://leader.pubs.asha.org/do/10.1044/2022-0511-biden-stuttering-news/full/

 

The ASHA Leader
American Speech-Language-Hearing Association

 

 

[thaicurious]

12 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I have no issue with stuttering.  Only with it being used as a way for criticism of Biden to be waved off. His problem isn't his stutter- it never was in the past, never mentioned AFAIK.  

 

Stuttering doesn't make a man forget names, and faces, and dates. 

Oh? Is he pathologically lying about names and faces and dates?

 

I've been pissing people off my whole life because I never remember their special dates. I do the same with names and faces. You are fooling yourself to take one particular aspect of a person and trying to apply that as a measure of that person. Perhaps you do the same in examining yourself. Give it a rest?

[Hanaguma]

1 minute ago, thaicurious said:

Oh? Is he pathologically lying about names and faces and dates?

 

I've been pissing people off my whole life because I never remember their special dates. I do the same with names and faces. You are fooling yourself to take one particular aspect of a person and trying to apply that as a measure of that person. Perhaps you do the same in examining yourself. Give it a rest?

I never said he was lying. He forgets, he forgets what he has forgotten, and he mixes up rather important details of events. He doesn't just stutter- he mimbles, rambles, loses his train of thought repeatedly. And it is getting worse and worse as his Presidency continues. Hell, even check 2020 Biden with today and there is a remarkable decline. 

[ezzra]

There should be age limits and cognitive abilities tests in place when it comes to the president of the most powerful

nation on earth, bit too much to leave the world's faith in the hand of one person...

[Tug]

55 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Come on, are you REALLY going to dredge up that old dodge? There was no mention of poor Joe and his stutter when we was Senator, or Vice President. Yet when he aged and began to slow down mentally it suddenly became front and centre. As if to give him a shield from legitimate criticism- "how DARE you attack a man with a handicap!"

 

All you need to do is listen to him speak 20 years ago, 10 years ago, and today. The difference is remarkable, and frankly scary. Joe was never too sharp, but at least he was moderately articulate. He had more choices of voice than angry curmudgeon.  There has been a decline, and it is becoming harder and harder to hide.

Joe Biden has ALWAYS been known as a gaff machine all throughout his career all stop!to me personally is #1 far and away the positive results he has and continues to achieve and by his decency.yes I and most Americans would prefer a younger more dynamic candidate.with that said for me I will NEVER vote for trump.I would vote for anyone before trump he’s a traitor to my nation the constitution and American ideals.the superb team put together by this administration will keep the country moving forward 

[Bkk Brian]

So plan B being? Who else is there for the Dems if this is true?

 

Special counsel report specifically cites Biden's age and poor memory as a reason he wasn't charged

US Special Counsel Robert Hur's newly released report cites President Joe Biden's memory and advanced age as a reason not to charge him for mishandling classified documents.

In Hur's yearlong investigation, his team found several classified documents improperly stored outside the White House stemming from Biden's time in the Senate and vice presidency.

https://www.businessinsider.com/special-counsel-report-biden-age-poor-memory-reason-no-charges-2024-2

[retarius]

2 hours ago, thaicurious said:

 

In Trump U. Lawsuit Deposition, Trump Can't Remember 'World's Greatest Memory' Boast (nbcnews.com)

 

"He cited memory lapses 59 times during the December deposition, a transcript from which was released on Wednesday."

 

Let me illustrate that for you.

 

"I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall" said  Donald J. Trump in one single testimony.

 

Trump said he couldn’t remember 36 times in response to special counsel Robert Mueller’s questions - MarketWatch

 

"Trump said he couldn’t remember 36 times in response to special counsel Robert Mueller’s questions

Published: April 19, 2019 at 10:06 a.m. ET

 

In written responses under oath, the president said his memory of crucial questions was hazy."

 

I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall I don't recall " said Donald J. Trump at another time.

 

I'm sorry, your were saying something about someone's memory?

Trump is pretty much the same age as Biden, but his brain is probably in better condition. At least Trump is willing to debate Biden, but Biden daren't debate Trump.

[retarius]

What a vile, loathsome person Biden is. He is also senile which is supposed to mean we are to feel sorry for him and vote for him? Sorry not me, the future of mankind is too important to be in the hands of someone described as the DoJ describes Biden.

On another note, how incredibly clever of the DoJ is this? Brilliant, I am in awe of how incredibly subtle the thinking has been. Irrefutable, so no one can credibly challenge the decision not to prosecute; it gets rid of the double standards issue way before the election; and although it mentions the senility issue, it will be forgotten long before the election. Brilliant.

[Tug]

Just looked up Mr hur on Wikipedia he’s a lifelong Republican and trump appointee in Maryland so next time one of the fluffers starts up with Biden’s DOJ just can it 

[Amethyst]

Several posts have been removed for mischaracterizing the Special Counsel's stated reasons for not seeking criminal charges against Biden:

 

Pertinent sections from the Executive Summary of the report:
 

"We have also considered that, at trial, Mr. Eiden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory. Based on our direct interactions with and observations of him, he is someone for whom many jurors will want to identify reasonable doubt. It would be difficult to convince a jury that they should convict him-by then a former president well into his eighties-of a serious felony that requires a mental state of willfulness."

 

AND

 

"Principles of Federal Prosecution. We have also evaluated ·'all relevant considerations" in aggravation and mitigation, as outlined in the Justice Manual, and determined that on balance, these factors do not support prosecution of Mr. Biden.:1

 

Historically, after leaving office, many former presidents and vice presidents have knowingly taken home sensitive materials related to national security from their administrations without being charged with crimes. This historical record is important context for judging whether and why to charge a former vice president
and former president, as Mr. Biden would be when susceptible to prosecution-for similar actions taken by several of his predecessors."

 

https://www.justice.gov/storage/report-from-special-counsel-robert-k-hur-february-2024.pdf

 

 

[retarius]

17 minutes ago, Tug said:

Joe Biden has ALWAYS been known as a gaff machine all throughout his career all stop!to me personally is #1 far and away the positive results he has and continues to achieve and by his decency.yes I and most Americans would prefer a younger more dynamic candidate.with that said for me I will NEVER vote for trump.I would vote for anyone before trump he’s a traitor to my nation the constitution and American ideals.the superb team put together by this administration will keep the country moving forward 

Decency? Are you living on earth or in space? I disagree 100%. He is unfit for the presidency, and I'm sure you would agree, that if the Dem's had anyone credible to take his place you would be supporting them and thankful Biden wasn't running. I';m sure you would like to have a candidate that was willing to debate Trump and go toe to toe with him, wouldn't you? 

[retarius]

21 minutes ago, ezzra said:

There should be age limits and cognitive abilities tests in place when it comes to the president of the most powerful

nation on earth, bit too much to leave the world's faith in the hand of one person...

Agree 100%

[dhupverg]

1 hour ago, thaicurious said:

 

What old dodge? I don't recall <wink>

 

He had periods of better control over it than at other times. So what? That doesn't make him less of who he always is and certainly his stutter, controlled or not, doesn't make him any less of a person. Your issues with his stutter does however lessen you.

I'd love to see his "supplement" protocol.  Amazing at times he seems quite awake and jittery, while others not so much.  What wonderful "supplements" is the guy on, just coffee?

Edited February 9 by stats
unsourced claim removed

[dhupverg]

31 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I never said he was lying. He forgets, he forgets what he has forgotten, and he mixes up rather important details of events. He doesn't just stutter- he mimbles, rambles, loses his train of thought repeatedly. And it is getting worse and worse as his Presidency continues. Hell, even check 2020 Biden with today and there is a remarkable decline. 

He certainly didn't forget Mitterand!

[dhupverg]

13 minutes ago, Tug said:

Just looked up Mr hur on Wikipedia he’s a lifelong Republican and trump appointee in Maryland so next time one of the fluffers starts up with Biden’s DOJ just can it 

Point being?  Do you really think the 3 letter agency backed wikipedia is a "trusted source" of truthful information?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, thaicurious said:

 

What old dodge? I don't recall <wink>

 

He had periods of better control over it than at other times. So what? That doesn't make him less of who he always is and certainly his stutter, controlled or not, doesn't make him any less of a person. Your issues with his stutter does however lessen you.

My issue with Biden is that IMO he is a terrible president, not his stutter.

[Bkk Brian]

Special counsel report sends shockwaves through Congress

A special counsel report released Thursday detailing memory lapses by President Biden sparked swift and fierce reactions from members of Congress.

Why it matters: Republicans quickly seized on the report, with Democrats privately panicking about the potential impact of its findings.

A senior House Democrat told Axios they are "going to take time to read the report," but added that it is "obviously concerning."
"Oy vey," said another House Democrat in reaction to the details.

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/08/biden-memory-special-counsel-report-congress

 

‘A nightmare’: Special counsel’s assessment of Biden’s mental fitness triggers Democratic panic

WASHINGTON — President Joe Biden sidestepped any criminal charges as the investigation into his handling of classified documents concluded, but the political blowback from the special counsel’s report Thursday could prove even more devastating, reinforcing impressions that he is too old and impaired to hold the highest office.

Special counsel Robert Hur’s portrait of a man who couldn’t remember when he served as Barack Obama’s vice president, or the year when his beloved son Beau died, dealt a blow to Biden’s argument that he is still sharp and fit enough to serve another four-year term.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/-nightmare-special-counsels-assessment-bidens-mental-fitness-triggers-rcna137975

[spidermike007]

Even as a lifelong democrat I would admit that he's much too old for the office and he should have stepped aside to make room for someone younger and more vital. The secondary aspect of this is the liability of his vice presidential choice. Harris is horrific on so many levels, but that brings us to the topic of Trump. He is way too old, he's deranged, he's partly senile and he's definitely insane, so we have two very terrible choices. 

[Woof999]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

go for the one that didn't start any wars while in office

 

Does your voting history reflect that view or is it a new, convenient metric that you can use to justify voting Trump?

 

Was Trump ever in a position to have to make the difficult decision to take military action?

What did he do to probably the largest military deterrent to potential US aggressors - NATO?

What did he achieve with Putin other than calling him a genius?

Do you honestly think that the Russian invasion of Ukraine was only planned after Trump left office?

What did he achieve with Xi Jinping other than calling him an exceptionally brilliant individual and slapping additional sanctions?

What did he achieve with Jon Il other than calling him a great leader?

Do you think that Trump, as he proclaims himself, is a great negotiator and that is why he an avoid conflict? If so, and if he is the brilliant negotiator and decision maker than he constantly tells us, how come his business empire is full of failure? How come he has to constantly fire staff? How in the world did he come to the decision to hire someone like Alina Habba to represent him last month?

 

Trump tries to project himself as a strong, intelligent leader. I honestly wonder how long Putin, Jinping and Il were able to hold their laughter after Trump left the room.

 

As for Biden, he seems to be doing rather well with the US economy and employment and has at least tried to enact bipartisan policy knowing full well it would be shot down by GOP, whether it was good for the US or not. His biggest mistake, in my humble opinion, is not having used the last 4 years to mentor a winning replacement. Harris is not that replacement. Whether Biden is in cognitive decline or not, perception is reality and the perception of Biden is rather negative despite his achievements.

 

All of that is immaterial to me though. The US electorate is cram packed with bible bashing illiterates who will only vote for a fellow bible basher, even though it is crystal clear to anyone with even half a brain that they (the candidates) are almost always playing make believe.

 

[retarius]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

"My memory is fine": Angry Biden fires back after special counsel report

 

President Biden fired back forcefully during remarks on Thursday against assertions made by a special counsel over his mental acuity and handling of classified documents.

...

"I've been president and I put this country back on its feet, I don't need his recommendation," Biden said, referring to Special Counsel Robert Hur.

,,,

"I'm well meaning, and I'm an elderly man, and I know what the hell I'm doing," Biden said in response to a question from a reporter.

 

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/09/biden-special-counsel-report-memory-robert-hur

 

 

If he is in such great shape he should debate Trump, but I think he will decline the opportunity to show how fine his mind really is. If he were to decline to debate, I would wonder why?

[thaibeachlovers]

54 minutes ago, thaicurious said:

 

He was known for his gaffes way before he was known for his age. You're right that he does put good people around him and we can be certain they are not yes men. I'm certain they let him know if he screws up. What I was most impressed with wasn't just his not losing his train of thought even upon confusing two issues for mere seconds, rather, that he held it together even in that cacophony of a press corp. I was listening on just on TV on my comfy couch where I could concentrate but couldn't pick out the questions he was able to focus on.

 

To all the ageism, which I'd say was warranted in a case of Sen. Feinstein at the end of her life which I wouldn't even have called ageism but reality, to me, even though he's obviously dealing with either arthritis or whatever causes that reduced range of motion, Biden doesn't seem to approach life with the perspective that time is ravaging him. I find that refreshing.

IMO you'd make a brilliant second hand car salesman, with your dogged determination to pronounce Biden fit for another four years when it's so obvious that he isn't.

 

There is a saying "promoted above competence", and I am modifying it to "elected past their sell by date".

Whatever the truth about Biden, he is just too old. Everyone deteriorates with age- it's inevitable.

[retarius]

1 hour ago, thaicurious said:

 

What old dodge? I don't recall <wink>

 

He had periods of better control over it than at other times. So what? That doesn't make him less of who he always is and certainly his stutter, controlled or not, doesn't make him any less of a person. Your issues with his stutter does however lessen you.

He isn't fit to be president. It's nothing to do with his stutter but to do with his power of concentration which is very poor and his lack of congnitive ability based on absurd policy decisions.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Even as a lifelong democrat I would admit that he's much too old for the office and he should have stepped aside to make room for someone younger and more vital. The secondary aspect of this is the liability of his vice presidential choice. Harris is horrific on so many levels, but that brings us to the topic of Trump. He is way too old, he's deranged, he's partly senile and he's definitely insane, so we have two very terrible choices. 

On that we can agree. Someone needs to give them both a good spanking and send them to the naughty corner till they stop with the delusion that they are the right man for the job.

As for Harris, IMO the only reason she was VP was that the VP comes as a package deal.

[retarius]

7 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Even as a lifelong democrat I would admit that he's much too old for the office and he should have stepped aside to make room for someone younger and more vital. The secondary aspect of this is the liability of his vice presidential choice. Harris is horrific on so many levels, but that brings us to the topic of Trump. He is way too old, he's deranged, he's partly senile and he's definitely insane, so we have two very terrible choices. 

You raise a very important point here. Biden's refusal to step down and allow a fit candidate to replace him  is evidence of his inability to make competent decisions.