Can condo management turn off water? Claim overdue fees out of nowhere from 5+ years ago?

[BigStar]

2 minutes ago, john donson said:

another point for just renting, never buying here

 

All renters here, for decades, always agreed on the ANF Poster Little Miss Muffet Rule about residency in Thailand. Now that you've all agreed, could owners discuss the issue without all the chanting?

[BigStar]

2 minutes ago, wisemonkey said:

They cant legally sue for any fees over 5 years old, so they wont be able to sue for that , source check here: https://housecondolawyer.com/common-fee, its the law.

 

OK, please restate the issue about which you think you might have a court case.

[wisemonkey]

1 minute ago, BigStar said:

 

OK, please restate the issue about which you think you might have a court case.

 Im preempting they turn off water based on these fees, and my tennant leaves that they will need to cover the rental contract.

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I don't think they are allowed to cut off your water of electricity. But the way you describe them that is no reason for them not to do it.

 

It seems you and probably other co-owners have a big problem to solve, remove that management?

Did you talk with the other owners?

Did you talk with the committee?

If something happened like the total overcharging, I would bring this up at the general meeting with everybody watching. This is what they charged, and this is what it cost (print it out). And then look what happens.

 

We had a bad management in our condominium. This was only possible because some owners broke the rules, and the management was quiet. "Good" owners would agree with you to get rid of a corrupt management. 

 

We have a small male toilet room on the ground floor for public usage, also female toilet room.

 

There was a lot of water damage to the ceiling of one of the rooms.

 

Suddenly damaged ceiling tiles removed and new fitted. No paining work to provide an overall new appearance.

 

Then every owner got a bill for their share of the work done, 5,000Baht each owner.

 

One new owner objected and sent a notice to the manager and a copy (Thai and English) under every unit door.

 

I forget the total amount being claimed from owners but around 1 million Baht.

 

All hell broke loose and a snr. policeman / owner put a notice under every door asking owners to indicate if they wanted an extra ordinary owners meeting to be held to discuss the matter

 

Majority of owners agreed should be an owners meeting.

 

Turned out:

 

- Approval to spend any funds to repair the small ceiling had never been given.

- Office manager had (with no discussion with committee) ordered the repairs and had in fact taken about 1M Baht from the building funds and had paid the contractor.

 

- One condo owner was a building contractor who had deliberately never submitted requests for repairs nor quotations for mooted repairs. However, after the event, on request by the snr. cop gave a quotation of 5,200Baht.

 

- Another own got her brother (small time renovations guy) to give a quote. His quote was 5,000Baht.

 

- Snr cop called the police to attend the meeting. End result, Condo manager changed with several offences, sacked, went to court, fined 40,000Baht and court order for her to return the 1Million Baht to condo owners fund.

 

- New rules discussed at the extra meeting, including a ruee that nobody working in the management of the condo was authorized to spend 1 Baht. Manager and all her staff (all were her relations) sacked on the spot.  

[wisemonkey]

5 minutes ago, scorecard said:

We have a small male toilet room on the ground floor for public usage, also female toilet room.

 

There was a lot of water damage to the ceiling of one of the rooms.

 

Suddenly damaged ceiling tiles removed and new fitted. No paining work to provide an overall new appearance.

 

Then every owner got a bill for their share of the work done, 5,000Baht each owner.

 

One new owner objected and sent a notice to the manager and a copy (Thai and English) under every unit door.

 

I forget the total amount being claimed from owners but around 1 million Baht.

 

All hell broke loose and a snr. policeman / owner put a notice under every door asking owners to indicate if they wanted an extra ordinary owners meeting to be held to discuss the matter

 

Majority of owners agreed should be an owners meeting.

 

Turned out:

 

- Approval to spend any funds to repair the small ceiling had never been given.

- Office manager had (with no discussion with committee) ordered the repairs and had in fact taken about 1M Baht from the building funds and had paid the contractor.

 

- One condo owner was a building contractor who had deliberately never submitted requests for repairs nor quotations for mooted repairs. However, after the event, on request by the snr. cop gave a quotation of 5,200Baht.

 

- Another own got her brother (small time renovations guy) to give a quote. His quote was 5,000Baht.

 

- Snr cop called the police to attend the meeting. End result, Condo manager changed with several offences, sacked, went to court, fined 40,000Baht and court order for her to return the 1Million Baht to condo owners fund.

 

- New rules discussed at the extra meeting, including a ruee that nobody working in the management of the condo was authorized to spend 1 Baht. Manager and all her staff (all were her relations) sacked on the spot.  

 

Thats inspirational to hear, thanks for posting. I think we actually do have a policeman in the building, maybe I should get him onside!

[JimTripper]

33 minutes ago, john donson said:

another point for just renting, never buying here

Yep. You are always going to be dealing with a Thai somewhere who does not see things correctly if you buy, since you can't own the land.

[JimTripper]

..

[bbi1]

2 hours ago, wisemonkey said:

Would probably agree with you at this point with me, although Im sure there are others with good management that had the opposite experience to me, maybe few and far between. If I was going to do it again I would just do the company and buy land and house not have to deal with management, or just buy in my sons name. 

Oversupply of properties & rents in Thailand never ever going up on over 10 years is another benefit to being a renter but a big downside for any landlords out there. On the other hand rents in the West have skyrocketted.

[bbi1]

1 hour ago, john donson said:

another point for just renting, never buying here

This man understands well. Smart man. Never ever own anything in Thailand of significant value.

[wisemonkey]

11 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

This man understands well. Smart man. Never ever own anything in Thailand of significant value.

Doesnt seem like you will ever have to worry about owning anything of significant value.

[OneMoreFarang]

Our condominium had a couple of people working in the management. All hired directly. We had problem. The committee suggested we hire a management company, and that management company hires people and controls them. Now the situation is much better.

There are still things to fix which they old management caused, but we have progress.

 

 

[bbi1]

10 minutes ago, wisemonkey said:

Doesnt seem like you will ever have to worry about owning anything of significant value.

Not in Thailand, nope, never. I'm not stupid ;)

[wisemonkey]

Just now, bbi1 said:

Not in Thailand, nope, never. I'm not stupid ;)

 

Just only stupid enough to choose this spot on the planet to live? Thats just why you live here right? lol. You own nothing of value anywhere. 

[wisemonkey]

28 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

This man understands well. Smart man. Never ever own anything in Thailand of significant value.

 

5 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

Not in Thailand, nope, never. I'm not stupid ;)

 

I present to you the man who is too clever to own anything of significant value in Thailand:

 

 

 

Great mate, I hope to be as clever as you to not own anything, so I can complain about microwave repairs online, a microwave that isnt even mine! And you have to nerve to come on here and talk about others investments?! haha

[BigStar]

31 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Our condominium had a couple of people working in the management. All hired directly. We had problem. The committee suggested we hire a management company, and that management company hires people and controls them. Now the situation is much better.

There are still things to fix which they old management caused, but we have progress.

 

 

 

The co-owners eventually realize they're too stupid to manage the building themselves and hire a management company. Sorted. To pre-empt: yes, the management company can be voted out at any annual meeting. 

[bbi1]

36 minutes ago, wisemonkey said:

 

Just only stupid enough to choose this spot on the planet to live? Thats just why you live here right? lol. You own nothing of value anywhere. 

I can afford to live here without working and have for so many years already, yet I'm sooooooooo far away from reaching the ripe old age of 50 for a retirement visa, which many old folks here can't even afford to qualify for and need to do the dodgy dodgy bribes to agents just because they can't afford to follow the law. I think I'm managing ok considering lots of old folks can't even afford to follow the law.

[bbi1]

28 minutes ago, wisemonkey said:

 

 

I present to you the man who is too clever to own anything of significant value in Thailand:

 

 

 

Great mate, I hope to be as clever as you to not own anything, so I can complain about microwave repairs online, a microwave that isnt even mine! And you have to nerve to come on here and talk about others investments?! haha

In the country I come from, it's the landlord's responsibility to fix broken appliances which were working on move-in date. Considering the microwave is listed in my rental lease, as has been confirmed by others, it's the owner's responsibility to fix it too. 

 

I don't need to own anything in Thailand. I have other stuff of significant value overseas.

[wisemonkey]

4 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

I can afford to live here without working and have for so many years already, yet I'm sooooooooo far away from reaching the ripe old age of 50 for a retirement visa, which many old folks here can't even afford to qualify for and need to do the dodgy dodgy bribes to agents just because they can't afford to follow the law. I think I'm managing ok. 

So you are under 50 and consider youself doing ok, that your online complaining about microwave repairs, when you can by a new microwave for 2k baht. Im sure your doing real real well buddy, keep giving out your advice about where to own significant value items, Im sure you got a lot of experience :S Hows that microwave going now? You managed to get your landlord to make the 200 baht repairs for you? Clever cookie you are, ill be sure to take your opinion with a mountain of salt

[bbi1]

1 minute ago, wisemonkey said:

So you are under 50 and consider youself doing ok, that your online complainging about microwave repairs, when you can by a new microwave for 2k baht. Im sure your doing real real well buddy, keep giving out your advice about where to own significant value items, Im sure you got a lot of experience. Hows that microwave going now? You managed to get your landlord to make the 200 baht repairs for you? Clever cookie you are

Yep, all working now. Thanks for your concern.

[BigStar]

51 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

This man understands well. Smart man. Never ever own anything in Thailand of significant value.

 

Too short-sighted for the shrewdest posters. A poor victimized farang needs to cover ALL the bases. You never know what more nasty surprises THEY have in store for us!

 

Now in every such thread daring to mention the word condo, we always have a number of naive noobs grasping for the  critical information they need before they LOSE EVERYTHING--like so many already bankrupted, desperate to sell, and headed for the exits.

 

From a sense of noblesse oblige, then, our wisest, such as yourself, should reach out to our noobs and relate the classic, street-smart ANF Poster Three Primal Laws Of Survival In Thailand, distilled over many years from the sage advice of our shrewdest, most knowledgeable members.

 

1. Never invest in anything you aren't ready to lose;

2. Never own more than you can carry with you or leave behind;

3. Keep a suitcase packed at all times.

 

There. All any farang needs for happy, successful living in Thailand. We need the Laws pinned somewhere.

 

Quoting one or more of the Laws gives you ten (+10) instant points of valuable ANF Posting Cred™ from the peanut gallery. Ding!

 

[itsari]

5 hours ago, bbi1 said:

Another reason why you don't ever buy a property in Thailand. Rent and just move to a new place if there are issues. Own properties overseas but never ever own anything in Thailand.

Your opinion on owning property is noted , however it is comforting to own the property and not be surprised with an eviction notice. 

[bbi1]

10 minutes ago, itsari said:

Your opinion on owning property is noted , however it is comforting to own the property and not be surprised with an eviction notice. 

I think you'd need to do something pretty bad to get an eviction notice in Thailand. I rented a place for 6 years. Never once got an eviction notice. Never once had a rent increase. Never once had an agent pop by for an inspection of the property. 

[itsari]

31 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

I think you'd need to do something pretty bad to get an eviction notice in Thailand. I rented a place for 6 years. Never once got an eviction notice. Never once had a rent increase. Never once had an agent pop by for an inspection of the property. 

Then you were lucky.

 

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, BigStar said:

 

The co-owners eventually realize they're too stupid to manage the building themselves and hire a management company. Sorted. To pre-empt: yes, the management company can be voted out at any annual meeting. 

Sure but the owners committee should make several solid rules that the management company must follow / no flexibility:

 

1. Management company had no authority to withdraw funds from condo bank account. Must be 2 signatories: both signatories must be from a list of say 4 authorised signatories and the owners on the list of 4 signatories must change regularly (every 6 / 12 months). No 2 expenditure items can have the same 2 signatures to withdraw funds.

 

2. The manager from Management company must not be related or have any close relationships with any other management team member. Must be a regular review of the management company job descriptions, the  authorities allowed for each job and a clear statement of the job outputs which must be achieved by each position and a timeline. (Job descriptions which state a list of tasks are not allowed, must state job outputs expected. 

 

3. A monthly meeting:  manager (from the management team, and all staff) and the owners committee. Manager from the management company must provide in advance a list of activities of the management team for last 30 days and why each item was undertaken. Owners at the meeting expected to ask questions for clarification and must direct their questions to the management team. If a question is directed at a jnr member of the management team that jnr employee must answer the question. Manager cannot try to intervene and answer the question. 

[Callaway9]

Is the Juristic Management Company owned by the developer who retains control to manipulate the funds? The Committee should be all over this and removing the JM if they're breaking rules and worse. Unless of course the Committee is also loaded with their own people. 

[Henryford]

18 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

Talk to a lawyer.  Make sure legal right also a lawyer might be able to resolve this easier.

 

Let's face it you and management have too much history 

 

I don't think the OP said how much these "extra fees" are that he owes. If he paid the main fees 7 years ago it can't be much. Maybe better to just pay the claimed amount rather than spend 10s thousands on legal fees. Over the life of the condo not so much?

[scubascuba3]

In condos you do get serial moaners who don't stop, PITA for the office and committee, but if the op has many examples of fraud then you need to get together as many owners as possible to vote out the Management co, probably committee first.

 

Yes water gets turned off, not legal apparently but most people won't take the condo to court for it, call their bluff

[kingstonkid]

22 hours ago, BigStar said:

 

It's not. Unless you have receipts for the fees paid in 2017, you'll lose, after a lot of bother. Then you'll be out legal fees (50,000 comes to mind) AND the fees from 2017. Our condo has a rule that if you lose, you'll have to pay the condo's legal fees as well. I'd offer a settlement, maybe 50%.

 

Don't like the management, you'll have to get enough votes at the annual meeting to change it. Definitely can be done. No, Thais don't always vote with Thais. They also appreciate good management. The condo is required to hold the annual meetings; if not you do have a legal argument.

You really did not read what I said.  I did not say to take legal action or to sue or anything.  What I said was to get a lawyer to represent him and give him advice.    From what op says, he has probably burnt all the goodwill he had.  Having a different person talking to the management will be able to get a reasonable resolution that might actually be a reasonable settlement.  

 

Op is not going to talk to nagement and get an agreement. They both have their backs up.

[BigStar]

2 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

You really did not read what I said.  I did not say to take legal action or to sue or anything.  What I said was to get a lawyer to represent him and give him advice. 

 

Yes, I followed the thought up to the worst case scenario. You made a good point. Getting advice is all to the good. And sometimes a letter from a lawyer can be quite helpful.

[kingstonkid]

4 minutes ago, BigStar said:

 

Yes, I followed the thought up to the worst case scenario. You made a good point. Getting advice is all to the good. And sometimes a letter from a lawyer can be quite helpful.

or a phone call