Controversy erupts as Thai doctors clash over mRNA vaccine effect

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

This is now endemic. It is no longer a pandemic.

 

February 6, 2024

Rampant COVID Poses New Challenges in the Fifth Year of the Pandemic

“We’re still in a pandemic,” says a lead COVID official with the World Health Organization

...

"Worldwide, there were more than 11,000 reported deaths from COVID between mid-December 2023 and mid-January 2024, and more than half of those deaths occurred in the U.S. In that same time frame, nearly one million cases were reported to the World Health Organization globally (although reduced testing and reporting means this is likely a vast undercount)."

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/rampant-covid-poses-new-challenges-in-the-fifth-year-of-the-pandemic/

 

The above stats being from only a relatively small number of countries in the world that are still regularly and publicly reporting their COVID cases and deaths to WHO.

 

 

 

[Amethyst]

Several posts with off-topic and/or unsourced claims have been removed.

 

[dinsdale]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

February 6, 2024

Rampant COVID Poses New Challenges in the Fifth Year of the Pandemic

“We’re still in a pandemic,” says a lead COVID official with the World Health Organization

...

"Worldwide, there were more than 11,000 reported deaths from COVID between mid-December 2023 and mid-January 2024, and more than half of those deaths occurred in the U.S. In that same time frame, nearly one million cases were reported to the World Health Organization globally (although reduced testing and reporting means this is likely a vast undercount)."

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/rampant-covid-poses-new-challenges-in-the-fifth-year-of-the-pandemic/

 

The above stats being from only a relatively small number of countries in the world that are still regularly and publicly reporting their COVID cases and deaths to WHO.

 

 

 

How many of these were vaccinated/unvaccinated? How many with severe comorbidities? What are the age groups? More info please.

[dinsdale]

10 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

We're in a different phase now. The virus is constantly changing. Thus, so will the guidelines.

We have been in a different phase for around two years. It's called Omicron which is a non-severe viral infection for the vast majority.

[Roo Island]

19 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

We have been in a different phase for around two years. It's called Omicron which is a non-severe viral infection for the vast majority.

Agreed. But it's severity shouldn't be down played. 11,000 deaths in a month is a big deal.

[dinsdale]

6 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Agreed. But it's severity shouldn't be down played. 11,000 deaths in a month is a big deal.

Well do you know about the comorbities of these people? Age groups? Even if died from or with Covid? 11,000 deaths globally is still bad news for those who died and there families but it is still only 11,000 in a month or around 354 per day in a global population of 8,019,876,189. In anyones books this is a very small number. Apart from that it seems to have become seasonal so there will be peaks and troughs.

[Roo Island]

16 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Well do you know about the comorbities of these people? Age groups? Even if died from or with Covid? 11,000 deaths globally is still bad news for those who died and there families but it is still only 11,000 in a month or around 354 per day in a global population of 8,019,876,189. In anyones books this is a very small number. Apart from that it seems to have become seasonal so there will be peaks and troughs.

Only 11,000 per month? Wow. Add in those hospitalised. Thosewith long covid. Those missing parents or relatives. Etc. Kinda heartless.

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, Roo Island said:

Only 11,000 per month? Wow. Add in those hospitalised. Thosewith long covid. Those missing parents or relatives. Etc. Kinda heartless.

Not heartless. Just reality. 61 million people died last year https://ourworldindata.org/births-and-deaths#:~:text=There were 61 million people,net increase of 0.91%). from all sorts of things. 5 million a month.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Only 11,000 per month? Wow. Add in those hospitalised. Thosewith long covid. Those missing parents or relatives. Etc. Kinda heartless.

 

The above monthly COVID deaths number of about 10,000 was reported by the WHO, but what's being ignored here is that that deaths tally came from only about 50 (depending on the month) out of the 234 jurisdictions that report to the WHO -- so it's hardly a comprehensive or accurate global total, as the WHO repeatedly has noted.

 

"Globally, during the 28-day period from 8 January to 4 February 2024, 75 countries reported COVID-19 cases and 43 countries reported COVID-19 deaths. Note that this does not reflect the actual number of countries where cases or deaths occur, as many countries have stopped or changed the frequency of reporting."

 

The prior months data had a bit more than 50 countries reporting COVID deaths, so the tally numbers tend to vary month to month, but it's typically less than one-fourth of all the world's jurisdictions.

 

https://www.who.int/publications/m/item/covid-19-epidemiological-update-16-february-2024

 

 

 

[jaywalker2]

What gets me is that every mainsteam expert who supports the vaccine is considered a pharma shill and purveyor of disinformation by the antivaxxers but the truth is that the antivax movement has become an enormous business. Pierry Kory, the original proponent of Ivermectin and now a suppporter of the "vaccine shedding" hypothesis, earned, according to the Washington Post, $368,000 from the FLCC last year which says that it's main business is posting social media content (antivax). He also charges $900 for a covid tele-conference. Robert Kennedy received a salary of over a half million from the the Children's Health Organization, largely an antivax group. Simone Gold who was the presidet of the FLCC allegedly embezzled millions to fund a lavish lifestyle. Peter McCullough is pushing a spike protein detox program that has never been clinically tested . John Campbell admitted that he was posting content meant to maximize views.

 

This is in addition to all the other ways they earn income: substack accounts, donations from conservative groups, prescriptions for Ivermectin, etc.

 

Conflict of interest anyone?

[dinsdale]

49 minutes ago, jaywalker2 said:

Conflict of interest anyone?

Big pharma and CDC. Big pharma and govenments. Fauci/Wuhan Institute of Virology/gain of function. No conflict of interest to be seen here folks.

[sammieuk1]

Never listen to anyone other than Dr Google Yong he knows it all 🤔

[Roo Island]

22 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Big pharma and CDC. Big pharma and govenments. Fauci/Wuhan Institute of Virology/gain of function. No conflict of interest to be seen here folks.

You really fall hard for the conspiracy theories. Wow.

[dinsdale]

3 hours ago, Roo Island said:

You really fall hard for the conspiracy theories. Wow.

Yep. Just like the vaccine injury conspiracy. Oh! Wait! It's not a conspiracy after all.

[Roo Island]

3 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Yep. Just like the vaccine injury conspiracy. Oh! Wait! It's not a conspiracy after all.

Pure conspiracy theory. Sad you fall for them. Really.

 

But, post a link proving that.

[sandyf]

19 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

AZ had been actively pursuing approval for its COVID vaccine in the U.S. up through 2021, including running clinical trials in the country. But ran into the documented problem of very rare but serious blood clots once the AZ vaccine began widespread use in Europe.  That led the U.S. FDA to demand more detailed submissions from AZ, and in the end, AZ withdrew from submitting a formal request for emergency use authorization.

 

AstraZeneca withdraws US COVID vaccine application, shifts focus to antibody treatments

Nov 10, 2022

 

"After missing the boat for emergency use of COVID-19 vaccines, AstraZeneca has finally pulled the plug on efforts to sell its shot in the U.S. 

There was what happened in the beginning,  and then there was what came later. By the time the dust had settled the necessity was no longer there.

Platlet problems are nothing new but in this day and age any Tom,Dick or Harry can create an issue to suit the agenda.  The AZ methodology has been around for decades so wouldn't it be prudent to wait a bit before flying the flag for mRNA. If the Bullous Pemphigoid link had been immediate mRNA would have been dead in the water but with covid in the rear view mirror media interest has faded.

 

"Why is the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, which was approved for use in the United Kingdom in December and in the European Union in January, not yet available in the United States? Every answer to that question leads to another query. It isn’t available because the Food and Drug Administration hasn’t given it an emergency-use approval, as it has for the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson vaccines. Why not? Because AstraZeneca, the Anglo-Swedish pharmaceutical company that partnered with Oxford University researchers in developing the vaccine, hasn’t applied for F.D.A. approval.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/why-there-is-so-much-confusion-about-the-astrazeneca-vaccine

[frank83628]

1 hour ago, Roo Island said:

You really fall hard for the conspiracy theories. Wow.

so you don't think there was any misinformation from any of the trusted media outlets, big pharma, Fauci etc? all 100% factual?

[Roo Island]

15 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

so you don't think there was any misinformation from any of the trusted media outlets, big pharma, Fauci etc? all 100% factual?

Not trusted media sites and not Fauci. Dodgy media outlets like Fox and social media? Absolutely lots of misinformation. I don't really trust any information from companies with vested interests. Kinda bizarre to label them biased. Of course they are!

[daveAustin]

Don't know what to believe here, but there is usually payback when medicines are ingested, while immunisations generally require years and years of development and testing. All I know is that within weeks of getting vaccinated, I had terrible arthritic-like issues with my thumbs. Very painful. The docs were almost too quick to deny any sort of correlation with these jabs. I wish I never felt obliged to have them. Mmm.

[Amethyst]

Several  off-topic diversion posts have been removed. Please stay on-topic for the subject of this thread.

 

[Roo Island]

16 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

Don't know what to believe here, but there is usually payback when medicines are ingested, while immunisations generally require years and years of development and testing. All I know is that within weeks of getting vaccinated, I had terrible arthritic-like issues with my thumbs. Very painful. The docs were almost too quick to deny any sort of correlation with these jabs. I wish I never felt obliged to have them. Mmm.

Reactions to vaccines are not uncommon. The 2nd shingles was terrible. But. Rather that than get the virus. Better odds that way.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Speaking of misinformation on COVID vaccines, let's look at where most of it is coming from, including the topic of this thread!

 

02/07/2024

NewsGuard Reports More Than 300 Vaccine-Related False Narratives Now Spreading Online

Nearly four years since the outbreak of COVID-19—and amidst a constant stream of false claims about vaccine efficacy—NewsGuard reports that there are now more than 300 vaccine-related false narratives infecting social media and online search results.

...

Prominent vaccine-related myth examples NewsGuard has identified include:

• “Fibrous blood clots reported by embalmers are proof of widespread deaths caused by COVID-19 vaccines:” A new version of this false narrative has gained traction due to an online survey of embalmers released in January 2024, which says that 70 percent of embalmers reported seeing an increase in fibrous blood clots in bodies beginning in mid-2021, following the rollout of COVID-19 vaccines. In fact, the survey’s responses—which may not have come from actual embalmers—cannot prove a link to COVID vaccines, because blood clots commonly form after a person has died and embalmers would be unlikely to know a deceased person’s vaccination status. The spread of this false narrative was accelerated by RFK Jr.’s Children’s Health Defense (Trust Score: 17.5/100).

https://www.newsguardtech.com/press/newsguard-reports-more-than-300-vaccine-related-false-narratives-now-spreading-online/

 

More evidence that the claims and insinuations made here about some connection between COVID vaccines and the pictured blood clots are, as this report calls them, "myth" and "false narrative."

 

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/newsguard/

 

"NewsGuard provides transparent tools to counter misinformation for readers, brands, and democracies. Since launching in 2018, its global staff of trained journalists and information specialists has collected, updated, and deployed more than 6.9 million data points on more than 35,000 news and information sources, and cataloged and tracked all of the top false narratives spreading online.

 

https://www.newsguardtech.com/about-newsguard/

 

 

 

[Roo Island]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Speaking of misinformation on COVID vaccines, let's look at where most of it is coming from, including the topic of this thread!

 

02/07/2024

NewsGuard Reports More Than 300 Vaccine-Related False Narratives Now Spreading Online

Nearly four years since the outbreak of COVID-19—and amidst a constant stream of false claims about vaccine efficacy—NewsGuard reports that there are now more than 300 vaccine-related false narratives infecting social media and online search results.

...

Prominent vaccine-related myth examples NewsGuard has identified include:

• “Fibrous blood clots reported by embalmers are proof of widespread deaths caused by COVID-19 vaccines:” A new version of this false narrative has gained traction due to an online survey of embalmers released in January 2024, which says that 70 percent of embalmers reported seeing an increase in fibrous blood clots in bodies beginning in mid-2021, following the rollout of COVID-19 vaccines. In fact, the survey’s responses—which may not have come from actual embalmers—cannot prove a link to COVID vaccines, because blood clots commonly form after a person has died and embalmers would be unlikely to know a deceased person’s vaccination status. The spread of this false narrative was accelerated by RFK Jr.’s Children’s Health Defense (Trust Score: 17.5/100).

https://www.newsguardtech.com/press/newsguard-reports-more-than-300-vaccine-related-false-narratives-now-spreading-online/

 

More evidence that the claims and insinuations made here about some connection between COVID vaccines and the pictured blood clots are, as this report calls them, "myth" and "false narrative."

 

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/newsguard/

 

 

You know they've drank the kool-aid when their references are political, like Ran Paul. Seriously? The Daily Caller? My gosh.

[johng]

On 2/25/2024 at 2:21 PM, pomchop said:

I suppose u would prefer that they moved very slowly to try and come up with a new vaccine...maybe run clinical trials for a few years til a billion or so people were dead?

Yes move very very slowly with a new (novel) vaccine technology.

 

What is the Infection Fatality Rate  of SARS-Covid 2 ?

How many people die every year in the world ?

[johng]

On 2/25/2024 at 2:21 PM, pomchop said:

If you didn't see bodies piled up around the world as well as people begging for shots and hosptial beds and incubators

I actually myself with my own eyes  saw 0  bodies piled up

how many did you see ?  not on the TV  but in real life ?

 

There is no point begging for a shot/vaccine if you already have the disease is there, the point of a vaccine is to prevent you getting the disease.

incubators ??

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There's the official figure for COVID deaths of about 7 million, and then there's the several times higher estimated figure of likely COVID deaths based on global excess death tallies during the pandemic.

 

 

https://archive.is/ynV8Z

 

[johng]

23 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Rampant COVID Poses New Challenges in the Fifth Year of the Pandemic

When will it ever end ???

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And then there are many different calculations on how many lives would have been saved if more people had ignored the rampant anti-vax misinformation and instead had gotten vaccinated as recommended by public health agencies around the world.

 

One example:

 

“For example, a May 2022 analysis by researchers at Brown, Harvard, Microsoft, and Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, reported that if the COVID vaccine take-up rate in the United States had been 90 percent of eligible adults after the vaccines became available instead of the actual rate of 70 percent of adults being fully vaccinated, 225,427 fewer people would have died between January 2021 and April 2022.”

 

https://www.newsguardtech.com/press/newsguard-reports-more-than-300-vaccine-related-false-narratives-now-spreading-online/

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Or this:

 

Global COVID vaccination saved 2.4 million lives in first 8 months, study estimates

November 1, 2023

 

The COVID-19 vaccination campaign in 141 countries averted 2.4 million excess deaths by August 2021 and would have saved another 670,000 more lives had vaccines been distributed equitably, estimates a working paper from University of Southern California (USC) and Brown University researchers.

...

"To the best of our knowledge, this is the first study that estimates the effect of COVID-19 vaccines on the global all-cause mortality using observational data. Second, unlike existing studies, this study considers the waning effect of vaccines instead of assuming a constant effectiveness of vaccines over time."

...

The averted deaths were economically valued at $6.5 trillion, roughly equivalent to 9% of the combined gross domestic product (GDP) of the 141 countries.

 

(more)

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/global-covid-vaccination-saved-24-million-lives-first-8-months-study-estimates

 

[johng]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

estimates

  ^^^^^^^^ Key word.