Controversy erupts as Thai doctors clash over mRNA vaccine effect

[luckyblock token]

16 minutes ago, johng said:

When will it ever end ???

never, you can not end the covid religion.

[Roo Island]

25 minutes ago, johng said:

I actually myself with my own eyes  saw 0  bodies piled up

how many did you see ?  not on the TV  but in real life ?

 

There is no point begging for a shot/vaccine if you already have the disease is there, the point of a vaccine is to prevent you getting the disease.

incubators ??

Deniers push that the point of the vaccine is to prevent getting the disease. It's also to prevent the severity if you do get it.

[Roo Island]

Just now, luckyblock token said:

never, you can not end the covid religion.

A variation of the Spanish flu is still with us. You know that. Right?

[Amethyst]

A post with unsourced and unsubstantiated claims has been removed for contravening the forum's Community Standards, as follows:

 

"In factual areas such as news forums and current affairs topics member content that is claimed or portrayed as a fact should be supported by a link to a relevant reputable source."

 

https://aseannow.com/forum_rules/

 

[johng]

Just now, Roo Island said:

A variation of the Spanish flu is still with us. You know that. Right?

Quick lock down the whole world again !!!!! 

don't they have a vaccine for it yet ?????

 

2 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Deniers push that the point of the vaccine is to prevent getting the disease.

No that was pushed by "vaccinators"  but now you seem to admit that if you take the "vaccine"  you may still get the disease but for sure for sure it will be less lethal  but   you still might die ?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

33 minutes ago, johng said:

  ^^^^^^^^ Key word.

 

Yes... the only "estimating" is how many times higher the real tally of COVID deaths is vs the universally agreed undercount of 7 million "official" COVID deaths.  The Economist below is using a range of between 18 million to 35 million total global deaths attributable to COVID.

 

https://archive.is/ynV8Z

 

From Our World in Data on the above charting by The Economist:

 

"This work by The Economist is one of the most comprehensive and rigorous attempts to understand how mortality has changed during the pandemic at the global level. But these estimates come with a great deal of uncertainty given the large amount of data that is missing and the known shortcomings even for data that is available.

 

We can think of them as our best, educated — but still ballpark — estimates. Some of the specific figures are highly uncertain, as the large uncertainty intervals show. But the overall conclusion remains clear: in many countries and globally, the number of confirmed deaths from COVID-19 is far below the pandemic’s full death toll. [emphasis added]

 

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

 

 

 

[frank83628]

52 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Or this:

 

Global COVID vaccination saved 2.4 million lives in first 8 months, study estimates

November 1, 2023

 

The COVID-19 vaccination campaign in 141 countries averted 2.4 million excess deaths by August 2021 and would have saved another 670,000 more lives had vaccines been distributed equitably, estimates a working paper from University of Southern California (USC) and Brown University researchers.

...

"To the best of our knowledge, this is the first study that estimates the effect of COVID-19 vaccines on the global all-cause mortality using observational data. Second, unlike existing studies, this study considers the waning effect of vaccines instead of assuming a constant effectiveness of vaccines over time."

...

The averted deaths were economically valued at $6.5 trillion, roughly equivalent to 9% of the combined gross domestic product (GDP) of the 141 countries.

 

(more)

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/global-covid-vaccination-saved-24-million-lives-first-8-months-study-estimates

 

*estimate

 

[johng]

32 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Yes... the only "estimating" is how many times higher the real tally of COVID deaths is vs the universally agreed undercount of 7 million "official" COVID deaths. 

Estimates of estimates.

"universally agreed"  I don't agree therefore it is not universally agreed.

[Roo Island]

2 hours ago, johng said:

Quick lock down the whole world again !!!!! 

don't they have a vaccine for it yet ?????

 

No that was pushed by "vaccinators"  but now you seem to admit that if you take the "vaccine"  you may still get the disease but for sure for sure it will be less lethal  but   you still might die ?

Perhaps you should research the Spanish flu. Making yourself look foolish. Along with the other comments.

[condo62]

Probably find out the truth in 30 years like Thalidomide......🤔

[Roo Island]

48 minutes ago, condo62 said:

Probably find out the truth in 30 years like Thalidomide......🤔

Entirely possible. But until then, the vast majority of us who got jabbed didn't end upin a hospital with a tube jammed down our throat or die, and are doing great now.

[pomchop]

20 hours ago, johng said:

I actually myself with my own eyes  saw 0  bodies piled up

how many did you see ?  not on the TV  but in real life ?

 

There is no point begging for a shot/vaccine if you already have the disease is there, the point of a vaccine is to prevent you getting the disease.

incubators ??

Well i never saw the bodies of the holocaust or hiroshima in person but i am pretty sure that they happened.

 

Ventilators is what i meant to say....you know those machines that were in short supply and big demand for a long time to try and save some of the antivax idiots who ended up in really bad shape and often died. 

 

Covid was a nasty disease that killed millions worldwide and would have been even worse had the vaccines not been developed so quickly.  The fact that many refused the shots often because it became "political"  resulted in a lot of unnecessary deaths and misery...for that I blame the politicians who pushed their conspiracy theories and nonsense and the people who were so dumb as to believe them...and yes i do realize that maybe a small small percent of the vaxed had some kind of reaction but overall i do not think any serious study has shown that everyone would have been better off if the vax had not been produced so quickly.

[pomchop]

On 2/25/2024 at 2:53 PM, Red Phoenix said:

Because older not so healthy people who work with and interact with these unvaxxed "young healthy " people would be more likely to be  infected and spread the virus to others who could very likely have a very bad hospitalization and maybe even DIE. 

Yep, suggested perhaps likely maybe...

But more relevant > When infected by Covid the symptoms are suppressed in the vaccinated so they are actually MORE likely to unwittingly spread it, than the unvaccinated who simply would stay home when feeling unwell.

Sure the unvaxxed just stay home like good little boys and girls...hell most people don't stay home from work when they have a bad cold and want to go to work to prove some idiotic "warrior" mentality and end up getting everyone in the workplace sick. Personally i used to despise those people hacking and coughing and spreading germs all over the workplace.

 

I was vaxed and like many others still got covid though it was a mild case.  But i tested myself as I knew full well I had something that was giving me a cough and bit of temperature and since covid was raging I had enough common sense to test myself and stay home when tested positive.  Not sure how many unvaxed people who got covid had such mild symptoms that they did not think they had anything at all but i suspect most all had some kind of symptons that something wasn't quite right.

 

Likely means there is a very good chance it will happen so not sure what you want...SURELY is a bit strong.  Likely is a good word to describe the situation but if you have a better word lets take a look.

[johng]

2 hours ago, pomchop said:

Well i never saw the bodies of the holocaust or hiroshima

Where you alive and at ground zero to see those 2 events ?

I assume you where for the last couple of years   how many actual bodies piled up did you see with your own eyes ?

 

2 hours ago, pomchop said:

Ventilators is what i meant to say....you know those machines that were in short supply and big demand for a long time to try and save some of the antivax idiots who ended up in really bad shape and often died. 

Yes ventilators  used mainly in the beginning before the vaccines where even available killed a lot of people should never have been used.

 

2 hours ago, pomchop said:

would have been even worse had the vaccines not been developed so quickly.

Absolutely no way to prove that without a time machine.

 

2 hours ago, pomchop said:

for that I blame the politicians who pushed their conspiracy theories and nonsense and the people who were so dumb as to believe them

I do too 100%  they certainly did push the narrative  and people where dumb enough to believe them.

 

2 hours ago, pomchop said:

I was vaxed and like many others still got covid though it was a mild case.

Have you ever considered that if you hadn't been "vaxed" and caught Covid it could also have been a mild case ?

[johng]

5 hours ago, Roo Island said:

the vast majority of us who got jabbed didn't end upin a hospital with a tube jammed down our throat or die,

Vast majority of everyone jabbed or unjabbed  didn't end up in hospital

let alone die.

[mfinasi]

Listening to the safe and effective crowd is as perplexing as someone attempting to financially justify their timeshare buy... 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

17 minutes ago, johng said:

Vast majority of everyone jabbed or unjabbed  didn't end up in hospital

let alone die.

 

Except for these folks:

 

https://archive.is/ynV8Z

 

or these:

 

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/?ACSTrackingID=DM95458-USCDC_2145&ACSTrackingLabel=12.9.2022 - COVID-19 Data Tracker Weekly Review&deliveryName=DM95458-USCDC_2145#trends_weeklyhospitaladmissions_select_00

[johng]

15 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Except for these folks:

Are they the "vast majority" of folks ? 

no they are the vast minority of folks.

[Roo Island]

55 minutes ago, johng said:

Vast majority of everyone jabbed or unjabbed  didn't end up in hospital

let alone die.

Huge difference in the stats between jabbed and unjabbed. I'll stick with the one with the better outcome. Jabbed.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

23 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Huge difference in the stats between jabbed and unjabbed. I'll stick with the one with the better outcome. Jabbed.

 

The COVID mortality rates for up-to-date vaccinated people vs. unvaccinated people varied at different points throughout the pandemic. But up-to-date vaccinated people consistently had LOWER COVID fatality rates vs. their unvaccinated peers.

 

Per U.S. CDC:

 

 

"Mar 24, 2023

An updated COVID-19 vaccine saves lives. Vaccinated people who received an updated COVID-19 vaccine were 14 times less likely to die compared with those who received no vaccine and 3 times less likely to die compared with those who received only the original COVID-19 vaccine(s)."

 

 

Edited February 27 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Roo Island]

38 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The COVID mortality rates for up-to-date vaccinated people vs. unvaccinated people varied at different points throughout the pandemic. But up-to-date vaccinated people consistently had LOWER COVID fatality rates vs. their unvaccinated peers.

 

Per U.S. CDC:

 

 

"Mar 24, 2023

An updated COVID-19 vaccine saves lives. Vaccinated people who received an updated COVID-19 vaccine were 14 times less likely to die compared with those who received no vaccine and 3 times less likely to die compared with those who received only the original COVID-19 vaccine(s)."

 

 

Needs to be repeated. From the article.

 

An updated COVID-19 vaccine saves lives. Vaccinated people who received an updated COVID-19 vaccine were 14 times less likely to die compared with those who received no vaccine and 3 times less likely to die compared with those who received only the original COVID-19 vaccine(s)."

[Red Phoenix]

15 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Needs to be repeated. From the article.

 

An updated COVID-19 vaccine saves lives. Vaccinated people who received an updated COVID-19 vaccine were 14 times less likely to die compared with those who received no vaccine and 3 times less likely to die compared with those who received only the original COVID-19 vaccine(s)."

Dream on with CDC fairy tales...

[Roo Island]

27 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Dream on with CDC fairy tales...

And thus the reason the pandemic was worse than it should have been