Controversy erupts as Thai doctors clash over mRNA vaccine effect

[connda]

It's all conspiracy theory.  Get your shots.  Safe and effective.

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, Dolf said:

I had Moderna after reading it offered the best protection and was safe. 1161 out of millions is low.

Fairly sure the families who have lost people because of MRnA vaccines would love to meet you in person to discuss this low number with you. Also the thousands of those injured by the vaccines. Fair chance they wouldn't see things the way you do.

[Danderman123]

22 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Not the point. The vaccines we are told are safe and effective. People dying and being injured certainly questions the safety aspect.

You sound like someone pointing out a seatbelt-caused death to warn people about using seatbelts.

 

You know, back in the day, Yellow fever used to kill lots of people, due to mosquitos from swamps. So, the swamps were cleansed of mosquitos and many lives were saved. But a few people died cleansing those swamps.

 

You seem to have a cognitive issue understanding the difference between a handful of people dying during the prevention process and millions of people dying from a disease.

[dinsdale]

2 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You sound like someone pointing out a seatbelt-caused death to warn people about using seatbelts.

 

You know, back in the day, Yellow fever used to kill lots of people, due to mosquitos from swamps. So, the swamps were cleansed of mosquitos and many lives were saved. But a few people died cleansing those swamps.

 

You seem to have a cognitive issue understanding the difference between a handful of people dying during the prevention process and millions of people dying from a disease.

Do you know what this means? If not look it up. Ad hominem. 

[Danderman123]

13 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Fairly sure the families who have lost people because of MRnA vaccines would love to meet you in person to discuss this low number with you. Also the thousands of those injured by the vaccines. Fair chance they wouldn't see things the way you do.

I am sure that families of unvaccinateds who died from Covid would love to meet you. There are lots of them.

 

Or those who suffer from Long Covid.

[Danderman123]

27 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Not sure about the varacity of these numbers but it is interesting.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-001201_EN.html

The European Medicines Agency (EMA) reported that 11 448 people have died in the EU following COVID-19 vaccines[1],

8 368 following Pfizer BioNTech vaccinations (which is 1 345 more deaths in 2022).

1 579 following AstraZeneca vaccinations.

1 161 following Moderna vaccinations.

339 following Janssen vaccinations.

1 following Nuvaxovid vaccinations.

0 following (inactivated, adjuvanted) Valneva vaccinations.

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/covid-19-vaccine-safety-update/covid-19-vaccines-safety-update-8-december-2022_en.pdf

 

The source document states that these figures are simply reports of death (or side effects) that incurred after injection. There is no further data to determine whether the vaccine was the cause.

[Dolf]

22 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Fairly sure the families who have lost people because of MRnA vaccines would love to meet you in person to discuss this low number with you. Also the thousands of those injured by the vaccines. Fair chance they wouldn't see things the way you do.

What were the underlying factors? How old were they?

 

Do you ride in cars on Thai roads?

[NoDisplayName]

36 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Not sure about the varacity of these numbers but it is interesting.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-001201_EN.html

The European Medicines Agency (EMA) reported that 11 448 people have died in the EU following COVID-19 vaccines[1],

8 368 following Pfizer BioNTech vaccinations (which is 1 345 more deaths in 2022).

1 579 following AstraZeneca vaccinations.

1 161 following Moderna vaccinations.

339 following Janssen vaccinations.

1 following Nuvaxovid vaccinations.

0 following (inactivated, adjuvanted) Valneva vaccinations.

 

Following the link in the linked link,

 

Quote

These reports describe suspected side effects in individuals, i.e. medical events observed following the use of a vaccine. The fact that someone has had a medical issue or died after vaccination does not necessarily mean that this was caused by the vaccine. This may have been caused, for example, by health problems not related to the vaccination.

 

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/covid-19-vaccine-safety-update/covid-19-vaccines-safety-update-8-december-2022_en.pdf

 

[NoDisplayName]

20 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Do you know what this means? If not look it up. Ad hominem. 

 

I looked it up.  Definitely questioning the logic of the argument, not the motivation.

 

 

Quote

 

ad hominem /hŏm′ə-nĕm″, -nəm/

adjective

1. Attacking a person's character or motivations rather than a position or argument.
   "Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives."
2. Appealing to the emotions rather than to logic or reason.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition

 

 

[hotchilli]

11 hours ago, smedly said:

excess deaths still need an explanation which has not been forthcoming 

And never will, big Pharma want to keep us in the dark, while they make billions out of the situation.

[rattlesnake]

10 hours ago, Emdog said:

A forensic doctor from the Bhumibol Adulyadej Hospital, Auttasit Dunamnuay, disagreed with Thiravat shared information from the English YouTuber, and retired nurse educator,

If I were a gambling man, I'd put my money on a forensic doctor over a nurse educator knowing what's going on.

Any time something is ingested or shot into your body, there is a risk. Somewhere between 351 and 420,000 people die from food poisoning each year world wide. I'll keep on eating despite the risk

Some people have died from vaccines. That is a fact. But there are mountains of evidence that death rate from covid was far lower among populations that got a good vaccine compared to those who skipped

I'm gonna live forever or die trying

 

Well I wouldn't expect people who have had multiple shots of the stuff to say any otherwise, that is an integral part of the problem, people just don't like admitting they were wrong.

[Roo Island]

Social media clowns causing problems again. It's all about money. It's estimated he makes over 300k USD per year. Amazing how many fall for his misinformation.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campbell_(YouTuber)

 

John Lorimer Campbell is an English YouTuber and retired nurse educator known for his videos about the COVID-19 pandemic. Initially, the videos received praise, but they later veered into misinformation.[2] He has been criticised for suggesting COVID-19 deaths have been over-counted, repeating false claims about the use of ivermectin as a COVID-19 treatment, and providing misleading commentary about the safety of COVID-19 vaccines.[3][4][5] As of June 2023, his YouTube channel had 2.8 million subscribers and over 653 million views.

[Roo Island]

5 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Well I wouldn't expect people who have had multiple shots of the stuff to say any otherwise, that is an integral part of the problem, people just don't like admitting they were wrong.

Right back at you on this one. Follow the science, not YouTubbers.

[Zab1e]

11 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Only big news in Thailand on many other news website around the world there is no mention of anything yet

No a lot is being mentioned  … 

 

[soalbundy]

11 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Only big news in Thailand on many other news website around the world there is no mention of anything yet

It has also caused some doctors in Germany to be concerned. My brother in the UK has been off work with 'long covid' for two years after being vaccinated with mRNA. 

[rattlesnake]

10 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

The narrative was NEVER that it will stop the virus from spreading. The narrative was that it would reduce transmission, deaths and long covid. That it does.

April 2021:
Pfizer, Moderna vaccines stop infections in real-world study
CDC report suggests shots cut transmission, not just illnesses
https://www.tbsnews.net/coronavirus-chronicle/pfizer-moderna-vaccines-stop-infections-real-world-study-238285

CDC Data Suggests Vaccinated Don’t Carry, Can’t Spread Virus
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/04/cdc-data-suggests-vaccinated-dont-carry-cant-spread-virus.html
 

Edited February 21 by rattlesnake

[ikke1959]

11 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

It has also caused some doctors in Germany to be concerned. My brother in the UK has been off work with 'long covid' for two years after being vaccinated with mRNA. 

The question still remains is it caused by the vaccine or is a result of surviving by the vaccine? Without the vaccine maybe people with now long covid could have died, but because of the covid they are alive, but have now the problems of long covid. It can take many years before this question can be answered

[JoseThailand]

Pff, anti-vaxxers knew it all along

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

The question still remains is it caused by the vaccine or is a result of surviving by the vaccine? Without the vaccine maybe people with now long covid could have died, but because of the covid they are alive, but have now the problems of long covid. It can take many years before this question can be answered

I don't know, I've had the same vaccine (in fact one injection more than I should have had due to a mistake by the nurse) with no ill effects but I won't get vaccinated again, the vaccinations were a rush job for an illness with a very low mortality rate.

[Nicholas Paul KNIGHT]

So TWO so-called ( never heard of them internationally ) eminent doctors are having a spat over the cause of a possible problem following an MRNA vaccine which may or may not affect a living person and hasten that persons death.

 

#Well done eminent DOCTORS , NOW you have sowed the seed of doubt so many will NOW not ge follow-up vaccinations to protect themselves and loosen the current general vaccination status of the whole country putting the REST of the population at risk. 

 

I wish I was that clever !!!!!

[Danderman123]

11 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Please show where I said "large numbers".

This is the relevant part of my post. "...it would also be interesting to know what's causing these rubbery, white clots found in arteries." Very puerile and definitely against the spirit of this forum to be misquoting someone. What they are of course is yet to be determined.

 

 

So, your position is that vaccines cause a tiny number of people to have white clots?

[rattlesnake]

51 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Right back at you on this one. Follow the science, not YouTubbers.

 

I don't know one person who didn't take the shot and regretted it.

[Danderman123]

37 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

April 2021:
Pfizer, Moderna vaccines stop infections in real-world study
CDC report suggests shots cut transmission, not just illnesses
https://www.tbsnews.net/coronavirus-chronicle/pfizer-moderna-vaccines-stop-infections-real-world-study-238285

CDC Data Suggests Vaccinated Don’t Carry, Can’t Spread Virus
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/04/cdc-data-suggests-vaccinated-dont-carry-cant-spread-virus.html
 

You understand that the initial vaccines were very effective in preventing Covid.

 

And then, the virus evolved.

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

I don't know one person who didn't take the shot and regretted it.

except for the dead ones.

[Danderman123]

8 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Not the point. The vaccines we are told are safe and effective. People dying and being injured certainly questions the safety aspect.

Tiny numbers of people dying after vaccination.

 

Large numbers of unvaccinated people dying.

 

Pick one.

[Roo Island]

7 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

I don't know one person who didn't take the shot and regretted it.

I know many. Some still suffering from long covid.

[ikke1959]

35 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I don't know, I've had the same vaccine (in fact one injection more than I should have had due to a mistake by the nurse) with no ill effects but I won't get vaccinated again, the vaccinations were a rush job for an illness with a very low mortality rate.

Same here I don't want any anymore...But I had to take vaccines because 2 members of my family died of Covid and we had be vaccinated to travel.. but after the vaccination we got Covid too, so I don't know was because of the vaccination or were we less ill because of it.... Anyway I said I don't take vaccines anymore

[Freddy42OZ]

12 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Indeed, this is how the Earth changed shape.

 

Brilliant comment!   

[rattlesnake]

27 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You understand that the initial vaccines were very effective in preventing Covid.

 

And then, the virus evolved.

 

The claim I replied to, "The narrative was NEVER that it will stop the virus from spreading", is false.

[rattlesnake]

28 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

except for the dead ones.

 

No.