NATO Will Be Drawn Into War With Russia if Ukraine Loses: Lloyd Austin

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

What's it tell you when even the warmongers and mercenary plutocrats like Prince say it's time to put an end to it?

It's long past time for the killing to stop and the rebuilding to start.  Or, we can stay in a forever war, pouring more Ukrainian lives and more US $$$billions ($trillions?), and hope against hope that nobody does something stupid that starts Armageddon.

 

As  if you care about Ukrainians.

Ukrainians are fighting an exisential fight for their survival as a sovereign nation and a culture separate from Russia. War criminal fascist dictator Putin is on record as not recognizing Ukrainian as an identity and his clear intention is to take over the entire country, Russify it, erase everything Ukrainian including their people and cities, and use it as a strategic base for further imperialistic expansion. 

[zhounan]

Only when the ruling class and rich send their sons to the front will I agree with a war.

[impulse]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is no profit in peace, but perhaps they can see that the Ukraine war is almost done so no more taxpayer largesse there, and perhaps another starting in a different part of the world and want to be ready to profit from it. Just saying.

 

Rebuilding Ukraine will be worth $$ billions to the lucky contractors who will no doubt be awarded no-bid contracts like they were in Iraq, Afghanistan, et al.  Maybe even $$ trillions in the long term.

 

 

 

[heybruce]

Lots of immediate "it's NATO's fault" and "it's America's fault" posts that, as always, ignore the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine.

 

The second paragraph of the article is:

 

"Austin expressed concern that Russian President Vladimir Putin would not halt his aggression if Moscow were to prevail in Ukraine. He highlighted the broader implications of such an outcome, suggesting that it would embolden other autocratic leaders and undermine global democracy. Austin particularly emphasized the vulnerability of NATO members, such as the Baltic nations—Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia—suggesting that their proximity to Russia makes them potential targets for future aggression. "

 

Does anyone care to dispute those assumptions?

[ozimoron]

28 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Lots of immediate "it's NATO's fault" and "it's America's fault" posts that, as always, ignore the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine.

 

The second paragraph of the article is:

 

"Austin expressed concern that Russian President Vladimir Putin would not halt his aggression if Moscow were to prevail in Ukraine. He highlighted the broader implications of such an outcome, suggesting that it would embolden other autocratic leaders and undermine global democracy. Austin particularly emphasized the vulnerability of NATO members, such as the Baltic nations—Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia—suggesting that their proximity to Russia makes them potential targets for future aggression. "

 

Does anyone care to dispute those assumptions?

 

The red army has also invaded this forum.

[scottiejohn]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

The red army has also invaded this forum.

The ASEANNOW branch of the Red Army/Politburo propaganda machine are certainly in full swing here so I see no point in feeding them & thus giving them more air/internet time!

That is why I do not normally take part here unless I see a new slant/statement that grabs my attention as yours just did!

[scottiejohn]

34 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Does anyone care to dispute those assumptions?

I certainly do not care to dispute those assumptions and agree wholeheartedly with your post!

[billd766]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

A curse on the American Putin loving maga fascists who are blocking vitally needed military aid to Ukraine in their brave defense against the murdeeoous aggression of expansionist Russia. 

A good curse would be

 

"May the fleas of a million camels (a thousand camels would not be enough) infest the multiple crotches of the gop, their fat so called leader, and ALL the magadontians who support them, and may all their arms be to short to scratch them".

 

And may the war-mongering Putin, his war-mongering cabinet, and all his war-mongering supporters be infested with a thousand leeches each.

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

A good curse would be

 

"May the fleas of a million camels (a thousand camels would not be enough) infest the multiple crotches of the gop, their fat so called leader, and ALL the magadontians who support them, and may all their arms be to short to scratch them".

 

All I know is that one day they will surely live in interesting times.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

You conveniently left out the quote from Erik Prince, former SEAL and founder of Blackwater.

 

We need to bring that war to a close because all Ukraine is doing right now is destroying itself demographically. They’re chewing up the next generation of manpower that they really can’t really replace right now. 

 

One more time, here's the CNN map of the region from last February (2023). 

Tell me, what gains has Ukraine made in the past year that justify the tens of thousands of lives and $ tens of billions of treasure squandered?  It's time to stop the killing and start the rebuilding.  It'll be an ugly peace, but there is no other viable end point other than forever war.

 

 

 

 

The Ukraine is NOT chewing ITSELF up.

 

That is being solely done by Russia who for some reason, YOU seem to support whole heartedly.

[RayC]

2 hours ago, zhounan said:

Only when the ruling class and rich send their sons to the front will I agree with a war.

 

Any war? What about historical wars such as WW2? You'd have left Nazi Germany and Japan to do what they wanted?

[impulse]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

The Ukraine is NOT chewing ITSELF up.

 

That is being solely done by Russia who for some reason, YOU seem to support whole heartedly.

 

I've been watching the map for a year now (posted twice above) and don't see any movement.  Indicating 2 things.  1) Ukraine has lost, and throwing lives (and money)  into the meat grinder is a cruel folly.  2) Russia hasn't made any moves beyond Putin's declared objective before the war started.

 

I support peace and funding for rebuilding.  Not endless war and a bottomless money pit.

 

[RayC]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I've been watching the map for a year now (posted twice above) and don't see any movement.  Indicating 2 things.  1) Ukraine has lost, and throwing lives (and money)  into the meat grinder is a cruel folly.  2) Russia hasn't made any moves beyond Putin's declared objective before the war started.

 

I support peace and funding for rebuilding.  Not endless war and a bottomless money pit.

 

 

Why continue to post and refer to this map of yours? The relevant map is the one which I posted which shows Ukraine's internationally agreed borders. If Russia agrees to respect these borders, then discussions can take place about the funding of the reparations.

 

I don't question your sincerity in wishing for peace - no sane person would want anything else - but peace comes at a cost. The cost of your negotiated settlement would be rewarding an aggressor and further encouraging him. A very heavy price to pay.

[ozimoron]

So now we have France, The Netherlands, Estonia and Lithuania suggesting that may send troops to Ukraine.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-russia-war-help-estonia-prime-minister-kaja-kallas/

[Yellowtail]

41 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

So now we have France, The Netherlands, Estonia and Lithuania suggesting that may send troops to Ukraine.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-russia-war-help-estonia-prime-minister-kaja-kallas/

I think as leader of the free world, it's time for Biden to put American boots on the ground in Ukraine. 

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I've been watching the map for a year now (posted twice above) and don't see any movement.  Indicating 2 things.  1) Ukraine has lost, and throwing lives (and money)  into the meat grinder is a cruel folly.  2) Russia hasn't made any moves beyond Putin's declared objective before the war started.

 

I support peace and funding for rebuilding.  Not endless war and a bottomless money pit.

 

Of course Russia has made moves.  After an attempt to encircle Kyiv and capture the government failed in a costly manner, Russia withdrew and then stated that it was only interested in stealing part of Ukraine.  Of course Putin has lied so much already (remember the assurances that there would be no invasion) that no sensible person trusts him.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I think as leader of the free world, it's time for Biden to put American boots on the ground in Ukraine. 

And who will take the responsibility when the body bags start coming back to the USA?

Who will take the responsibility when that war mongering manic starts throwing nuclear weapons about?

 

Putin won't give a monkeys. HE will be safe in his bunker under the Kremlin. It won't bother him if 100 or 200 million Russians die. How many millions of other, innocent people will die because of him?

 

HE will have won the war to nothing.

[ozimoron]

 

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

And who will take the responsibility when the body bags start coming back to the USA?

That will be Trump's fault for starting the war. 

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Who will take the responsibility when that war mongering manic starts throwing nuclear weapons about?

That will be Trump's fault for arming the Ukrainians.

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Putin won't give a monkeys. HE will be safe in his bunker under the Kremlin. It won't bother him if 100 or 200 million Russians die. How many millions of other, innocent people will die because of him?

Biden won't give a rat's either. He'll be eating ice-cream safe in his bunker as well. He'll come out every now and then to talk about how he understands the pain of Gold Star Families, because he lost his son in Iraq. 

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

HE will have won the war to nothing.

And Biden will go down as the greatest military leader in the history of the world. 

[Dolf]

On 3/2/2024 at 9:25 AM, Jingthing said:

Agreed.

Putin just gave a speech where he threatened again to nuke the west.

On Russian propaganda tv they speak of global occupation including London and Washington.

Yet the Magadonians side with Russia over Ukraine.

 

Biden is driving the west towards ww3. Trump is anti war.

 

When are people going to wake up? The deep state wants a war.

[Dolf]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Musk is a weirdo and turns out he is a vile Putin fan boy.

 

Sorry being billionaires doesn't give the right to make foreign policy.

 

The vast majority of American people and elected representatives want to help Ukraine in its defense efforts.

 

It's only a minority of traitorous maga fascists led by their lead mafia Don Trump who refuse to put it up to a vote.

 

Weirdo? Really? I'd put his morals up against yours.

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, Dolf said:

Biden is driving the west towards ww3. Trump is anti war.

 

When are people going to wake up? The deep state wants a war.

Trump is Hitler and a Putin puppet!!!!

[Dolf]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

Trump is Hitler and a Putin puppet!!!!

That's what they say.

[G_Money]

If Putin can’t take over Ukraine after two years, what makes one think he can take all of Europe?

 

Not 100% current on the subject but isn’t his Army a Paper Tiger.

 

I think Trump will negotiate the war’s end when elected.

 

Not in 24 hours as he’s quoted.  I’ll give him 30-60 days.

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, G_Money said:

If Putin can’t take over Ukraine after two years, what makes one think he can take all of Europe?

 

Not 100% current on the subject but isn’t his Army a Paper Tiger.

 

I think Trump will negotiate the war’s end when elected.

 

Not in 24 hours as he’s quoted.  I’ll give him 30-60 days.

Trump said he will not support NATO members if attacked and he'll let Putin take all of Europe and whatever else he wants. In another thread, people were claiming Putin is helping Trump fund his legal issues which would not surprise me. Putin tried to help Trump in the 2020 election with the phony Hunter laptop story, but thankfully, the FBI saw through that and was able to shut the story down. 

[Jingthing]

40 minutes ago, Dolf said:

Biden is driving the west towards ww3. Trump is anti war.

 

When are people going to wake up? The deep state wants a war.

Trump is pro Putin.

Trump is pro dictatorships.

Trump is anti democracy.

I consider him a criminal and traitor.

[G_Money]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Trump said he will not support NATO members if attacked and he'll let Putin take all of Europe and whatever else he wants. In another thread, people were claiming Putin is helping Trump fund his legal issues which would not surprise me. Putin tried to help Trump in the 2020 election with the phony Hunter laptop story, but thankfully, the FBI saw through that and was able to shut the story down. 

If is a big word.  Putin hasn’t taken Ukraine yet so I think Europe is in good hands.

[G_Money]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Trump is Hitler and a Putin puppet!!!!

How many wars did trump start?  0

 

If Biden stays in office he’ll have boots on the ground.  

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, billd766 said:

A good curse would be

 

"May the fleas of a million camels (a thousand camels would not be enough) infest the multiple crotches of the gop, their fat so called leader, and ALL the magadontians who support them, and may all their arms be to short to scratch them".

 

And may the war-mongering Putin, his war-mongering cabinet, and all his war-mongering supporters be infested with a thousand leeches each.

Thanks for that curse, and back at you.

 

"May the fleas of a million camels (a thousand camels would not be enough) infest the multiple crotches of the Democrats, their incompetent so called leader, and ALL the PC wokesters who support them, and may all their arms be to short to scratch them".

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, G_Money said:

If is a big word.  Putin hasn’t taken Ukraine yet so I think Europe is in good hands.

No, Europe is just lucky. They have, IMO, reduced their military forces to the point of irrelevance.

Look at Britain which used to have the largest and most powerful navy on the planet, which now is reduced to 2 aircraft carriers which apparently are both out of service, and don't have any British attack planes on them. They also have a few frigates and destroyers, but I heard they have a problem finding crews, as not enough men want to join the military ( having been in the military myself that doesn't surprise me ).