Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Why did you say that the Israelis deserved 7/10. You are so disingenuous you are tearing yourself apart and why you are allowed to post like you do is beyond belief. 

 

Stop lying.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

You forgot to answer my question about proportionality in the killing of human shields. I knew you would not rise to the challenge.

 

It is irrational to consider that when I say "The Israelis" in the context of this war that I mean each Israeli individually or all of them collectively. That would make no sense. I never generalize. It's especially irrational when I have made it quite clear over and over again that I blame only Netanyahu and his government and other key figures in the administration of Israel. I think you do understand that I am not racist despite continually trying to imply that I am.

I am not talking hypothetical scenarios on a case of proportionality of say a residential building and how many would be classed as a war crime because there is no set number, read the rule! It is up to a court to decide on each individual situation, beside since you've admitted you double speak I've already refused any further debates with you. That now also goes for asking such questions that need lawyers, judges and evidence to decide.

[rattlesnake]

20 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

"The Israelis" logically means their government in this conflict. I have said many times I have no problem with individual Israelis, only the government. I don't believe I need to repeat that ad infinitum ad nauseum to stop you relying on pedantry.

 

Just for context, about the Israeli population. According to this poll from last November, Netanyahu is unpopular, but there is strong support (over 90%) for the IDF and its actions:

 

New opinion polls just released from Israel Democracy Institute and Tel Aviv University's Peace Index indicate that Israeli attitudes towards the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are more hawkish than at any point in recent memory.
[...]

Poll results were also hawkish when it came to the use of force in Gaza: 57.5% of Israeli Jews said that they believed the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) were using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power, while 4.2% said they weren’t sure whether it was using too much or too little firepower.

[...]

Nevertheless, despite the distrust in Netanyahu, trust in the IDF remains high. In Israeli Voice Index Polls conducted between Oct. 24-26, 49.5% of respondents said that they trusted the IDF more than Prime Minister Netanyahu, while just 7.3% said they trusted Netanyahu more than the IDF.

 

https://time.com/6333781/israel-hamas-poll-palestine/

Edited March 24 by rattlesnake

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

I am not talking hypothetical scenarios on a case of proportionality of say a residential building and how many would be classed as a war crime because there is no set number, read the rule! It is up to a court to decide on each individual situation, beside since you've admitted you double speak I've already refused any further debates with you. That now also goes for asking such questions that need lawyers, judges and evidence to decide.

 

Nor am I. 44 dead Israeli soldiers for 11,000 civilians (as at January) is not a hypothetical.

 

Meanwhile, are you going to step up to the plate and answer my question about proportionality or just continue to obfuscate?

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

Nor am I. 44 dead Israeli soldiers for 11,000 civilians (as at January) is not a hypothetical.

 

Meanwhile, are you going to step up to the plate and answer my question about proportionality or just continue to obfuscate?

Links to all the incidents, evidence of all the incidents, evidence of all the deaths, once you have that send to ICC and stop the baiting, its tedious.

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Just for context, about the Israeli population. According to this poll from last November, Netanyahu is unpopular, but there is strong support (almost 100%) for the IDF and its actions:

 

New opinion polls just released from Israel Democracy Institute and Tel Aviv University's Peace Index indicate that Israeli attitudes towards the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are more hawkish than at any point in recent memory.
[...]

Poll results were also hawkish when it came to the use of force in Gaza: 57.5% of Israeli Jews said that they believed the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) were using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power, while 4.2% said they weren’t sure whether it was using too much or too little firepower.

[...]

Nevertheless, despite the distrust in Netanyahu, trust in the IDF remains high. In Israeli Voice Index Polls conducted between Oct. 24-26, 49.5% of respondents said that they trusted the IDF more than Prime Minister Netanyahu, while just 7.3% said they trusted Netanyahu more than the IDF.

 

https://time.com/6333781/israel-hamas-poll-palestine/

 

Every country stands behind it's military in time of war. During the Vietnam war I was vehemently against our participation but stood ready to do my duty if I got drafted.

 

edit: I came from a proud military family.

Edited March 24 by ozimoron

[rattlesnake]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Every country stands behind it's military in time of war. During the Vietnam war I was vehemently against our participation but stood ready to do my duty if I got drafted.

 

Valid point.

[Wobblybob]

15 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Stop lying.

You are the renowned liar, you do it on most posts. You have dragged this thread down to level I've never witnessed before on these boards and how you are allowed to get away with your inflammatory posts is beggars belief. 

But with ref to your remarking that the Israelis deserved 7/10, I have it on file and will post tomorrow to remind you. 

Sleep well. 

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

You are the renowned liar, you do it on most posts. You have dragged this thread down to level I've never witnessed before on these boards and how you are allowed to get away with your inflammatory posts is beggars belief. 

But with ref to your remarking that the Israelis deserved 7/10, I have it on file and will post tomorrow to remind you. 

Sleep well.

 

You'd better make sure my comment matches your terminology or I will report you and refer to this post. Think twice.

Edited March 24 by ozimoron

[Wobblybob]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

You'd better make sure my comment matches your terminology or I will report you and refer to this post. Think twice.

Oh teacher they're picking on me. Stop your inflammatory posts or do you even know you are doing them. 

[rattlesnake]

3 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

To teach the terrorists a lesson!

 

Is that supposed to be funny?

[ozimoron]

18 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Oh teacher they're picking on me. Stop your inflammatory posts or do you even know you are doing them. 

 

I post what I honestly believe. For the record, I have no affiliations with any country, ethnicity or language outside of the UK, and all my ancestors were born in Australia. If my posts are inflammatory to you, you need to do some navel gazing. Look at the post above by rattlesnake to gain a clue.

Edited March 24 by ozimoron

[Wobblybob]

23 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I post what I honestly believe. For the record, I have no affiliations with any country, ethnicity or language outside of the UK, and all my ancestors were born in Australia. If my posts are inflammatory to you, you need to do some navel gazing. Look at the post above by rattlesnake to gain a clue.

No you don't, your posts are inflammatory to most posters on here, usual suspects excluded of course. You fail to provide links to your fabricated posts, you use terminology like "subhuman" and "the Israelis deserved it", you are fooling no one with your antisemitic beliefs! 

Edited March 24 by Wobblybob
Spelling

[beautifulthailand99]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

As far as the narrative of imbalance between Israel and Hamas, it's not as cut and dried as the Israel demonizers paint it.

Hamas through October 7 clearly BAITED Israel in to a massive response knowing that they had

 

A huge tunnel network

That taking so many hostages would complicate things

That they provided no bomb shelters for their civilians (which they could have well afforded as part of their tunnel network)

Using their age old tactic of using civilians as human shields

Knowing there would be large casualties of women and children

Knowing that it would all be on social media and  they and their Tik Tok River to the Sea agents could win a huge global propaganda victory falsely accusing Israel of genocide

 

So yes Israel is winning the military part but Hamas is winning the propaganda part and its arguable that in the long run the propaganda part may be more important.

 

You've nailed it I think that was the plan if they can't have their land back they will curse future generations of Israel to perpetual paranoia in their refuge and in the rubble of Gaza and a newly emerging multipolar world with a declining US Hamas 2 will arise intent on the same revenge as their martyrs from this.

[rattlesnake]

26 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

You've nailed it I think that was the plan if they can't have their land back they will curse future generations of Israel to perpetual paranoia in their refuge and in the rubble of Gaza and a newly emerging multipolar world with a declining US Hamas 2 will arise intent on the same revenge as their martyrs from this.

 

I agree with the substance of these two messages. I can't go into detail about the reasons as it would be off-topic, but what we are now witnessing is catastrophic to the image of Israel. Netanyahu and his entourage are too fanatical to realise that their current actions are destroying a century of hard work.

[Nick Carter icp]

38 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

You've nailed it I think that was the plan if they can't have their land back they will curse future generations of Israel to perpetual paranoia in their refuge and in the rubble of Gaza and a newly emerging multipolar world with a declining US Hamas 2 will arise intent on the same revenge as their martyrs from this.

 

   Or the Palestinians could decide that they dont want any more wars and end its attacks on Israel and want to live a ;peaceful existence ?

Edited March 24 by Nick Carter icp

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

Poll results were also hawkish when it came to the use of force in Gaza: 57.5% of Israeli Jews said that they believed the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) were using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power, while 4.2% said they weren’t sure whether it was using too much or too little firepower.

Most Israelis think the IDF are using too little force!!! 

Oh dear, speaks volumes. 

[ozimoron]

 

[Social Media]

Inflammatory posts and replies contravening our Community Standards have been removed.

[ozimoron]

 

[Nick Carter icp]

47 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Most Israelis think the IDF are using too little force!!! 

Oh dear, speaks volumes. 

 

   Israelis want to win the war , they are the ones who are at risk as long as Hamas remain 

[Jingthing]

58 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Israelis want to win the war , they are the ones who are at risk as long as Hamas remain 

Exactly. 

They need to win to survive as a nation. 

A country like the US can afford to lose wars.

Israel loses one and its over.

Edited March 24 by Jingthing

[Neeranam]

 

Kick Israel out the UN, this is shocking! 

 

UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres has made a renewed call for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza.

 

"I want Palestinians in Gaza to know: You are not alone. People around the world are outraged by the horrors we are all witnessing in real time. Palestinians in Gaza remain stuck in a non-stop nightmare," he added.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68646159

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 

Kick Israel out the UN, this is shocking! 

 

UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres has made a renewed call for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza.

 

"I want Palestinians in Gaza to know: You are not alone. People around the world are outraged by the horrors we are all witnessing in real time. Palestinians in Gaza remain stuck in a non-stop nightmare," he added.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68646159

What would the UN do if they didn't have Israel to kick around anymore?

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly. 

They need to win to survive as a nation. 

A country like the US can afford to lose wars.

Israel loses one and its over.

How on Earth do you think Israel could not win?

Gazans at at their mercy. 

Do you support the US supporting Israel in this conflict?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

How on Earth do you think Israel could not win?

Gazans at at their mercy. 

Do you support the US supporting Israel in this conflict?

Winning means being free of worrying  about further October 7 type attacks for many many years.

 

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

What would the UN do if they didn't have Israel to kick around anymore?

What are you on about? Israel benefits from the UN - diplomatic support, peacekeeping, humanitarian assistance, and development cooperation.

The UN address human rights abuses and violations of international law committed by Israeli, more than other countries as erm ..... you know why.

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Winning means being free of worrying  about further October 7 type attacks for many many years.

 

Israel's long-term security depends on its ability to engage constructively with Palestine, uphold democratic values, and work towards a just and sustainable peace in the region. Sadly, they are not doing this and just care about getting the land, at any cost. 

Do you condone Ethnic cleaning?

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

What are you on about? Israel benefits from the UN - diplomatic support, peacekeeping, humanitarian assistance, and development cooperation.

The UN address human rights abuses and violations of international law committed by Israeli, more than other countries as erm ..... you know why.

The priority for Israel now is war.

This war that Hamas started.

Edited March 24 by Jingthing

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The priority for Israel now is war.

This war that Hamas started.

And the rest of the world is telling them to stop, including the US, who support them financially and give them bombs. Even the POTUS said they were bombing indiscriminately!! 

This will not end well for Israel.