Integration into Thai Society

[FruitPudding]

Would be interesting to know what we all think on this 🤔 

[bob smith]

I dont think thai people, especially the males, care for our integration into their society.

 

There is a deep rooted xenophobia here and coupled together with a false sense of superiority makes integrating into Thailand all but impossible.

 

Still, I will keep trying.

Until my flight outta here in a couple of weeks.

 

bob.

Edited March 8 by bob smith

[OneMoreFarang]

The available options are too limited.

 

How far should we try to integrate? Do we have to discuss lottery numbers and believe in ghosts? Or can we skip some of those traits?

 

Personally, I think it's good to be able to live and work together with Thais and at the same time don't deny that we are different in many ways. How can we not be different when we grew up in a society which is very different from Thailand?

 

And I think we are in the wonderful situation that we can integrate in some ways which we like, but we don't have to integrate in other ways which we don't like. I.e. we can learn to communicate in Thai and understand their culture. 

And, at the same time, we can stay outside of their hierarchy. 

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

Questions too generic and leading.

Should we all attempt to live our lives making allowances for the Thai way of life.  YES

Should we all attempt to become Thai. NO

 

 

 

[FruitPudding]

47 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Questions too generic and leading.

 

Interesting take

 

47 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Should we all attempt to live our lives making allowances for the Thai way of life.  YES

 

Why?

 

47 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Should we all attempt to become Thai NO

 

 

Why not?

Edited March 8 by FruitPudding

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 minute ago, FruitPudding said:

Interesting take

Why?

Why not?

Thanks.

Why Not?

Why?

[G_Money]

No desire!

 

Happy to spend money and enjoy what I enjoy.

 

 

[FruitPudding]

10 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Thanks.

Why Not?

Why?

 

Well, they were your points, so I can't really answer for you.

 

But I'll try...

 

I suppose one should try to make allowances for the Thai way of life, if it's harmless and acceptable to the foreigner, but I wouldn't say we "have to"

 

Becoming Thai could have some benefits, such as no longer having to worry about visas.

[stoner]

2 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Well, they were your points, so I can't really answer for you.

 

But I'll try...

 

I suppose one should try to make allowances for the Thai way of life, if it's harmless and acceptable to the foreigner, but I wouldn't say we "have to"

 

Becoming Thai could have some benefits, such as no longer having to worry about visas.

 

i've been married over 15 years the least they could do is throw a guy a permanent resident bone. my wife gained canadian citizenship after about 5 years.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 hour ago, stoner said:

 

i've been married over 15 years the least they could do is throw a guy a permanent resident bone. my wife gained canadian citizenship after about 5 years.

Ditto - my Wife is Australian Citizen. She easily able to apply, and she was treated so much better and fairer than I am in Thailand.  Sometimes I feel like a criminal out on parole - 90 day reports, annual extensions, reports when travelling, ask permission to leave country and return, no govt services, no free medical, etc etc.  I am treated like a tourist and that is because I am legally only that and will never been any more. Residency or Citizenship is out of my reach - a lawyer said not to waste my time and money applying.  Xenophobic? Nationalistic? Whatever - I would like to be treated fairly that is all.  

[FruitPudding]

53 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Ditto - my Wife is Australian Citizen. She easily able to apply, and she was treated so much better and fairer than I am in Thailand.  Sometimes I feel like a criminal out on parole - 90 day reports, annual extensions, reports when travelling, ask permission to leave country and return, no govt services, no free medical, etc etc.  I am treated like a tourist and that is because I am legally only that and will never been any more. Residency or Citizenship is out of my reach - a lawyer said not to waste my time and money

 

Damn right, and the amount of income tax I paid last year would have 98% of Thailand laughing at me.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

8 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Damn right, and the amount of income tax I paid last year would have 98% of Thailand laughing at me.

My intention is to avoid paying any income taxes at all to Thailand.  I am retired and dont earn money here - my only 'income' is retirement savings (some interest) and the pension.  If they force me to pay income taxes, then we are out of here and we will only return for a visit to the family/friends. 

[NativeBob]

To integrate with Thai society is mission impossible. One can pretend to act like them, eat their meals, laugh their jokes, digging his nostrils and instantly smiling. At the end he will get tired of pretending show his actual ugly non-Thai face. 

Be nice but keep distance - that would be honest decision to make. 

[BritManToo]

I'm not keen on foreigners, I certainly don't want to act like one.

[MangoKorat]

I don't know if anyone thinks they've fully integrtated but you'll never be fully accepted - even by your wife. When sh*t comes to bust, Thai's will always support another Thai even when its clear you're in the right.

 

That said, I spend most of my time in country with Thai friends and I mostly go to Thai clubs and bars.

 

Anyway, I refuse to eat stinking 100 year old fish and chicken feet.

[richard_smith237]

I think, integration is a word which may have a different meaning for many of us. 

 

Thai society covers an extremely broad spectrum... there are those at either end of the spectrum that don't integrate with the other.

i.e. Taxi drivers tend not to integrate with university professors (regardless of how hard someone tries to come up with an example of how they enjoy a beer with their Taxi Driver Neighbour and University Professor Friend)...

 

So... Integration... 

 

IMO - it means being polite, being respectful, learning enough of Thailand to know what to do when to do it, how to behave etc.

 

Wai'ing - yes, knowing when to Wai and not being afraid of doing it wrong, or not to have a superiority complex also means - integrating (in this context)....

 

Having close Thai friends (male and female)... being close enough to go around to the houses of Thai friends for dinner, going on holiday together etc...  Being close enough to discuss anything.... 

 

 

Integration for me means being here and being comfortable in and around the company of Thai's on a mutually respectful daily basis. 

Integration for me means being here and it not really feeling any different to my home country any more... It is different of course, but the feeling of 'being normal' is the same feeling as it is in my home nation. 

 

 

I think for someone who is polite, integration is a very simple thing to achieve... its just part of living a life which feels normal. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ralf001]

2 <deleted>... I give not.

[1FinickyOne]

Integration takes time and circumstances to prove out... how helpful will you be in a family emergency? 

[Celsius]

to fully integrate I would have to be an alcoholic, impregnate several underage girls work for the government and buy a Yaris and a townhouse on a 20,000 baht salary.

 

 

[FruitPudding]

2 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Integration takes time and circumstances to prove out... how helpful will you be in a family emergency? 

 

I don't get it. What's family emergency got to do with it?

[nobodysfriend]

21 hours ago, bob smith said:

There is a deep rooted xenophobia here and coupled together with a false sense of superiority makes integrating into Thailand all but impossible.

Well said ...

Rural Thais are still at the evolutionary stage of hunters and gatherers ,they live from ' the hand to the mouth ' , eat what they can catch or find in the forest ...

You do not want to be part of this .

Thais with an ' education ' believe that they are superior to foreigners in about everything .

I am surprised at the level of incompetence in people who pretend to have studied in a thai University .

That includes doctors at ' world class ' hospitals in thailand . Operations not well done , need to be operated again in a foreign country ... happened to my wife ... Vet's who talk nonsense , x-ray the wrong foot  prescribe medicines that are dangerous and forbidden in other countries , specialists who just do not know the recent , much better medication in their domain and try to prescribe completely outdated , costly treatments ...

Nearly everything here is substandard , but the natives believe that they are superior to anyone else ...

It easily becomes frustrating and a foreigner who wants to stay and live in Thailand has to adapt his mind to that , not always easy ...

There is no integration into thai society for a non-thai , impossible .

And anyway who could really want that rearding the way they think and act ...?

Why I still live here ...? Because , where I come from , everything has changed to the worse ... people are upset and angry , bureaucracy is at crazy levels , prices and taxes are too high , weather is always bad .

Thailand is still the lesser evil , even it is far from perfect .

But a foreigner in Thailand has to adapt , be polied , non - violent , take it with a smile and shut up .

[Kinnock]

I think we all Adapt, Accept and Acclimatise to different extents.  

 

Rather than fully integrate, I believe we take some of the positives of Thai culture (not over thinking, acceptance of fate, sense of fun, outward polite behaviour) and add strengths from our own cultures (logic, commitment, sense of fair play).

 

I also hope we resist some of the negative traits here (entitlement, unearned respect, spite).

[Kinnock]

2 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Integration takes time and circumstances to prove out... how helpful will you be in a family emergency? 

That's not accurate is it?  We could buy an Almera.

[spidermike007]

No. We will never be able to be a part of society here. We have to accept that. I am fine with that, as I have never felt a need to belong. The Thais will not accept us as one of them. Could be tribalism. Could be insecurity. I don't really care, and for me it is no big deal. Some aspects of life here, like the spectacularly weak practice of face, are something no sane and rational person would want to emulate. Same applies to some aspects of tradition, and very limited convention. 

 

In many countries, after 5 years or so, you are considered an honorary member of their society. Mexico is a good example. Not here. Not ever. 

Edited March 9 by spidermike007

[SportRider]

Would be helpful to have a definition of Integration... Means different things to different people.

[Kinnock]

Thailand is for Thai people, and we will always be visitors.  Have you ever arrived at the airport and been greeted by a non-Thai immigration officer?

 

Compare that to The Islamic Republic of Heathrow.

[SportRider]

17 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

No. We will never be able to be a part of society here. We have to accept that. I am fine with that, as I have never felt a need to belong. The Thais will not accept us as one of them. Could be tribalism. Could be insecurity. I don't really care, and for me it is no big deal. Some aspects of life here, like the spectacularly weak practice of face, are something no sane and rational person would want to emulate. Same applies to some aspects of tradition, and very limited convention. 

 

In many countries, after 5 years or so, you are considered an honorary member of their society. Mexico is a good example. Not here. Not ever. 

Agreed.  Thailand is not as multicultural or as welcoming in the way that places like Singapore are, for example, where I had PR.

 

[Enoon]

 

Act normal and smile a lot.

[moe666]

Why bother, I just keep on being me and fly below the radar as much as possible. I a happy with that and I have no need to put my name up in lifhts.

[pentagara]

48 minutes ago, SportRider said:

Agreed.  Thailand is not as multicultural or as welcoming in the way that places like Singapore are, for example, where I had PR.

 

Singapore today is in every way as multi-cultural as Thailand from a white person's perspective, just with more rules.

 

As a foreigner, you are categorized in three buckets (citizen, permanent resident and other - the latter can be tourist or tax paying employee with visa) plus your race. The three buckets determine, which price you pay in anything that is public service or health care (3-tierd pricing in SG vs. 2-tierd pricing in Thailand).

 

To become a permanent resident (or citizen) in Singapore you have to strengthen the ethnic status quo and cohesion of society. On your first visa application you state your race and you're categorized accordingly. Singapore is majority ethnic Han-Chinese, followed by Malay and Indian. Whites are a single digit percentage. Accordingly, if you want to become permanent resident nowadays as an employee on Employment Pass coming from Mainland China working eg. in one of the 'Singaporean', mainland Chinese founded tech companies (or also any other respected company), you'll easily get it after completing your first round of full year taxes about 1.5 years in.

 

These days, as a white person, you won't get it even after living and working in Singapore for 10 years on an Employment Pass. Forget about ever being able to retire in Singapore, even if you buy property at the inflated 60% stamp duty you have to pay as someone who just works there, but is not considered a permanent resident. After ending your job, you are a tourist and are required to leave.

 

You will never become a permanent resident or citizen in today's Singapore, unless you're a billionaire trying to evade US taxes. Then they do grant you citizenship, since that is the one and only exception (i.e. bringing lots of money to Singapore, in the 100m USD range and up).

 

Mind you, things in Singapore have changed massively in this regard since the immigration wave of about 2009. It's one of the most xenophobic countries I've ever been to so far (as a white person, admittedly). It's also a very friendly country, as long as you know your place. You'll just never be part of it. Singapore in this sense is very, very Southeast Asian.

Edited March 9 by pentagara