Justice Department investigating door plug blowout on Alaska Airlines flight, report says

[Georgealbert]

The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) is investigating statements made by Boeing about its safety practices after a mid-air panel blowout on a 737 MAX flight in January.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sec-probing-boeings-statements-safety-201206924.html

[AverageAussie]

A couple of brutal Boeing memes now doing the Social Media rounds. (Just ignore the appalling typos)  

 

 

[Georgealbert]

Boeing's problems rattle US aviation regulator as well. The US Federal Aviation Administration, sharply criticised after the crashes of two Boeing planes in 2018 and 2019, is again being dragged into a maelstrom surrounding the major American aerospace manufacturer.

 

https://www.firstpost.com/world/us-aviation-regulator-rattled-by-boeings-problems-13769936.html

[Georgealbert]

Boeing commercial jet only delivered 24 aircraft in April, while European rival Airbus said it delivered 61 aircraft in April.

 

The company has said it is producing fewer MAX jets, only delivering 16 in April, to improve manufacturing quality, after being placed under increased scrutiny from regulators.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/14/boeing-commercial-jet-deliveries-drop-by-two-in-april-.html

[Georgealbert]

DOJ says Boeing breached 2021 737 MAX deferred criminal prosecution deal and they will now decide whether or not to file charges.

 

”The determination exposes Boeing to a potential criminal prosecution over the 2018 and 2019 crashes that could carry steep financial penalties and tougher oversight, deepening a corporate crisis and reputational damage stemming from the January blowout.”

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-says-boeing-breached-2021-221522872.html

Edited May 15 by Georgealbert

[Georgealbert]

Boeing could now face the criminal prosecution it avoided in 2021, after the two MAX 8 crashes.Any Department of Justice inquiry/investigation and criminal prosecution will probably focus on the Boeing Renton facility, where the 737 is manufactured.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/explainer-boeing-could-face-criminal-165709805.html
 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/doj-investigation-could-focus-boeing-174135861.html

[Georgealbert]

Boeing CEO David Calhoun's is currently marred by serious quality control failures, poor leadership, and poor performance, but his departure at the end of 2024 comes with a proposed $32.8 million pay package.

 

https://www.entrepreneur.com/leadership/inside-boeing-ceos-controversial-328-million-pay-package/474084

[morrobay]

There are a lot of coulds in these reports. So no later than July 7 for DOJ to decide to prosecute? https://fortune.com/2024/05/15/boeing-criminal-charges-justice-department-violation-settlement-agreement/

[Georgealbert]

23 hours ago, morrobay said:

There are a lot of coulds in these reports. So no later than July 7 for DOJ to decide to prosecute? https://fortune.com/2024/05/15/boeing-criminal-charges-justice-department-violation-settlement-agreement/

The concern is why they were granted the deferred prosecution agreement in the first place, was it just pure protectionism, as the government agreed not to prosecute Boeing on a charge of defrauding the United States by deceiving regulators about the flight system and allowed them to escape their full responsibility, limited the compensation they were liable for and helped the lowering of safety standards, regulations and oversight.

 

U.S. Senator Richard Blumenthal, Chair of the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, released the following statement after the Department of Justice filed a letter in federal court asserting that Boeing has violated the terms of a deferred prosecution agreement.

 

“When Boeing was granted a deferred prosecution agreement, I said that it would incentivise bad behaviour and do nothing to change the rotten corporate culture that allowed Boeing to mislead and deceive regulators, because it held no one accountable.

 

The only way to ensure companies put safety above profit is through transparency and accountability.”

[morrobay]

These two technical pilots are at the center of this deception. Why aren't they  being individually prosecuted? Boeing is part of the military industrial complex and will be protected . Wrong of course. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/boeing-charged-737-max-fraud-conspiracy-and-agrees-pay-over-25-billion

[Georgealbert]

9 hours ago, morrobay said:

These two technical pilots are at the center of this deception. Why aren't they  being individually prosecuted? Boeing is part of the military industrial complex and will be protected . Wrong of course. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/boeing-charged-737-max-fraud-conspiracy-and-agrees-pay-over-25-billion

Your own link shows that the role of employees was considered at the time of the deferred prosecution deal, see picture below.

 

As your earlier link above also shows, federal prosecutors have now said in new court filings, that Boeing had breached the 2021 immunity deal by failing to “prevent and detect violations of the U.S. fraud laws throughout its operations.”, but they did not offer any additional details on why they believed Boeing had breached the deal, and what or if possible prosecutions may follow.

 

The deferred prosecution deal, which expired in January, included a six-month review period, which has allowed prosecutors to decide how the company has violated the original agreement. Boeing now has until June 13 to respond to the recent court filings.

 

Remember the background, that in January 2021, federal prosecutors actually announced they were charging Boeing with one count of fraud for lying to federal regulators, but later the same day it was announced that Boeing and prosecutors had signed a deferred prosecution agreement, a deal brokered by the administration, that shielded Boeing from trial.That agreed deal required Boeing to pay out sanctions of $2.5 billion and to implement a corporate-compliance program to prevent future instances of fraud, among other mandates.

 

Edited May 18 by Georgealbert

[morrobay]

So these two technical pilots concealed the serious problems with the MCAS system. As a result of this deciet training manuals did not include this for future pilots and this led to the second 737 max crash. And these two pilots are getting away with this ????? Then what was considered regarding Boeing employees accountability? This deciet by these pilots is black and white criminal negligence. 

[impulse]

1 hour ago, morrobay said:

So these two technical pilots concealed the serious problems with the MCAS system. As a result of this deciet training manuals did not include this for future pilots and this led to the second 737 max crash. And these two pilots are getting away with this ????? Then what was considered regarding Boeing employees accountability? This deciet by these pilots is black and white criminal negligence. 

 

Agreed.  The idea that they can "criminally prosecute" a corporation is ludicrous.  That punishes the 99% of Boeing employees and stockholders who did nothing wrong, and lets those with blood on their hands to skate free.  They need to prosecute the individuals who committed murder by fraud.  From the guys on the shop floor who falsified documents, designers who hid features from regulators, to the guys in the C-Suites that knew they were doing it.  Send a few of them to prison and see if that doesn't straighten out Boeing's toxic culture.

 

[Georgealbert]

1 hour ago, morrobay said:

So these two technical pilots concealed the serious problems with the MCAS system. As a result of this deciet training manuals did not include this for future pilots and this led to the second 737 max crash. And these two pilots are getting away with this ????? Then what was considered regarding Boeing employees accountability? This deciet by these pilots is black and white criminal negligence. 

Sorry not sure what you are expecting?

 

Your link and my picture above, clearly shows that the actions of Boeing and individuals employees was considered, but they all got immunity mandates, under the deferred prosecution deal.

 

The real problem is not those individuals, but that deal, which came from an administration that oversaw a record reduction in overall corporate prosecutions and liked to use leniency deals allowing companies and executives to avoid sanctions, hence helping to further the profit before safety/regulation business approach.

 

This Department of Justice new court filing claims, that Boeing has breached the 2021, differed prosecution deal by failing to “prevent and detect violations of the U.S. fraud laws throughout its operations.”, Boeing has until June 13 to formally respond to the allegation and the Justice Department says it will consider those comments then in determining whether to pursue any prosecution. 
 

At the court hearing, the Justice Department told the District Judge Reed O’Connor, that Boeing could be prosecuted for any crime the government knows about, but it did not give any details about what crimes it is considering.

 

The Department of Justice told the judge that a final decision about Boeing and the deal, will be made no later than July 7. Until then the 2021 deal and the mandates and provisions remain in place, with the company and employees immune from those prosecutions.

 

[impulse]

15 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

The Department of Justice told the judge that a final decision about Boeing and the deal, will be made no later than July 7. Until then the 2021 deal and the mandates and provisions remain in place, with the company and employees immune from those prosecutions.

 

If the DOJ won't prosecute individuals, every country that lost citizens in the 2 MAX crashes should file charges against the culprits and seek extradition through whatever treaties they have around the world.   And arrest any one of them that shows up in a friendly country's airport.

 

The DOJ cannot sign away the prosecutorial rights of the rest of the world...

 

Edited May 19 by impulse

[Georgealbert]

10 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Agreed.  The idea that they can "criminally prosecute" a corporation is ludicrous.  That punishes the 99% of Boeing employees and stockholders who did nothing wrong, and lets those with blood on their hands to skate free.  They need to prosecute the individuals who committed murder by fraud.  From the guys on the shop floor who falsified documents, designers who hid features from regulators, to the guys in the C-Suites that knew they were doing it.  Send a few of them to prison and see if that doesn't straighten out Boeing's toxic culture.

 

How could they have prosecuted those employees, when the government handed them immunity along with Boeing?

 

Yes they should have been charged and that would have all come out if prosecutors had been allowed to charge Boeing with fraud.

 

It was the out going administration, that stepped in and stoped the prosecutions, with the deferred deal, but fact, that may not fit the political agenda of many.

[morrobay]

13 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Agreed.  The idea that they can "criminally prosecute" a corporation is ludicrous.  That punishes the 99% of Boeing employees and stockholders who did nothing wrong, and lets those with blood on their hands to skate free.  They need to prosecute the individuals who committed murder by fraud.  From the guys on the shop floor who falsified documents, designers who hid features from regulators, to the guys in the C-Suites that knew they were doing it.  Send a few of them to prison and see if that doesn't straighten out Boeing's toxic culture.

 

Thank you. Glad I'm not the only one here calling spades .spades. Exactly this. The individuals like these two technical pilots who deceived the FAA by continually concealing flaws in the MCAS system that led the the second crash seem to be getting lost in this shuffle. By design I dare say. And I'm for sure getting baffled by claims the government gave immunity to these two technical pilots. So in effect the DOJ and Boeing are on the same side letting these two pilots off. 

[Georgealbert]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

If the DOJ won't prosecute individuals, every country that lost citizens in the 2 MAX crashes should file charges against the culprits and seek extradition through whatever treaties they have around the world.   And arrest any one of them that shows up in a friendly country's airport.

 

The DOJ cannot sign away the prosecutorial rights of the rest of the world...

 

Try to stick to the reality, please post links to those countries that have filed any charges following the MAX 8 crashes.

Even the lawyers for the families of the victims know this is not going to happen, hence they are meeting with the Department of Justice at the end of this month, to discuss the new filing for breeching the 2021 deal.

Do you really think that extradition is going to be achieved when a deferred prosecution deal was secured, but don’t let reality and real fact get in the way.

 

 

[Georgealbert]

4 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Thank you. Glad I'm not the only one here calling spades .spades. Exactly this. The individuals like these two technical pilots who deceived the FAA by continually concealing flaws in the MCAS system that led the the second crash seem to be getting lost in this shuffle. By design I dare say. And I'm for sure getting baffled by claims the government gave immunity to these two technical pilots. So in effect the DOJ and Boeing are on the same side letting these two pilots off. 

You posted the link to the Department of Justice, press release on the deferred prosecution deal, please try reading it again, it contains all the details of why Boeing or any of its employees were not prosecuted in 2021, what happens in the future will become clear in July, when the government may put safety before profit.

 

Here is your own link again.

 

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/boeing-charged-737-max-fraud-conspiracy-and-agrees-pay-over-25-billion

[morrobay]

23 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

How could they have prosecuted those employees, when the government handed them immunity along with Boeing?

 

 

Do you have link to immunity for these two technical pilots. And you  have avoided my question above : Just what was considered by the DOJ in this deferred prosecution? Regarding employee accountability? ? So in other words criminal negligence ( continually concealing flaws in the MCAS system that led to the second 737 MAX crash was not considered??? So the big picture here that is getting lost in all this DOJ mumbo jumbo is that the technical pilots are getting away with it. It's cases like this where I would favor a justice system in a country where these two jerks would have been locked up many moons ago- 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19 by morrobay

[impulse]

8 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

Do you really think that extradition is going to be achieved when a deferred prosecution deal was secured, but don’t let reality and real fact get in the way.

 

Did Ethiopia and Indonesia give them immunity from criminal prosecution?

 

Of course, the victims' lawyers want to sue in the USA.  Because that's where they'd get the best settlement.

 

But it isn't close to being over, around the world.  Especially since Boeing seems to have crapped on their deferral agreement...

 

[stevenl]

15 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Thank you. Glad I'm not the only one here calling spades .spades. Exactly this. The individuals like these two technical pilots who deceived the FAA by continually concealing flaws in the MCAS system that led the the second crash seem to be getting lost in this shuffle. By design I dare say. And I'm for sure getting baffled by claims the government gave immunity to these two technical pilots. So in effect the DOJ and Boeing are on the same side letting these two pilots off. 

Boeing is letting them off? Boeing is responsible for the whole mess through their profit first culture. US government has been complicit for many years with this attitude.

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Do you have link to immunity for these two technical pilots. And you  have avoided my question above : Just what was considered by the DOJ in this deferred prosecution? Regarding employee accountability? ? So in other words criminal negligence ( continually concealing flaws in the MCAS system that led to the second 737 MAX crash was not considered???

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't blame the individual, blame the company and the government for letting this happen.

[morrobay]

9 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Do you have link to immunity for these two technical pilots. And you  have avoided my question above : Just what was considered by the DOJ in this deferred prosecution? Regarding employee accountability? ? So in other words criminal negligence ( continually concealing flaws in the MCAS system that led to the second 737 MAX crash was not considered??? So the big picture here that is getting lost in all this DOJ mumbo jumbo is that the technical pilots are getting away with it. It's cases like this where I would favor a justice system in a country where these two jerks would have been locked up many moons ago- 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Don't blame the individual, blame the company and the government for letting this happen.

 

[Georgealbert]

10 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Do you have link to immunity for these two technical pilots. And you  have avoided my question above : Just what was considered by the DOJ in this deferred prosecution? Regarding employee accountability? ? So in other words criminal negligence ( continually concealing flaws in the MCAS system that led to the second 737 MAX crash was not considered??? So the big picture here that is getting lost in all this DOJ mumbo jumbo is that the technical pilots are getting away with it. It's cases like this where I would favor a justice system in a country where these two jerks would have been locked up many moons ago- 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes it is clearly stated in the press release, that it all covered by the 2021 deal.

 

You do know who gave Boeing the 2021 deferred deal?

[Georgealbert]

12 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Did Ethiopia and Indonesia give them immunity from criminal prosecution?

 

Of course, the victims' lawyers want to sue in the USA.  Because that's where they'd get the best settlement.

 

But it isn't close to being over, around the world.  Especially since Boeing seems to have crapped on their deferral agreement...

 

Please link to those prosecution cases in Ethiopia and Indonesia.

 

We will find out by July 7, if it is over, that will depend on what, who or if the Department of Justice  decides to prosecute. If no action is taken then the 2021 deal will prevent any future prosecutions.

[morrobay]

4 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

Yes it is clearly stated in the press release, that it all covered by the 2021 deal.

 

You do know who gave Boeing the 2021 deferred deal?

Ok misleading statement's, half truths and omissions .All the mumbo jumbo in the world  does not send a clear message about the two technical pilots that concealed flaws in the MCAS system that led to the  second crash . It just amazing how these two jerks seem to be getting lost in the shuffle. 

[Georgealbert]

2 hours ago, morrobay said:

Ok misleading statement's, half truths and omissions .All the mumbo jumbo in the world  does not send a clear message about the two technical pilots that concealed flaws in the MCAS system that led to the  second crash . It just amazing how these two jerks seem to be getting lost in the shuffle. 

Sorry all I can do is post credible links, with up to date information from liable sources. What I can not do is help you understand the facts and the truth.

 

There were no prosecutions of either Boeing or individual employees, in 2021, because the administration pushed through the deferred prosecution deal, which stopped all potential charges, and as I keep saying all the information you need, is in that 2021 deal.

 

It is no good to continue ranting about the MCAS and the two technical pilots, it is not going to change reality, or do you think if you post the same opinion over and over, it will somehow become the truth?

 

I also noticed you did not answer my question, asking if you know who gave Boeing the 2021 deferred deal, is that because it does not fit you agenda?

 

The full court filing can be downloaded online and found Under Court Docket No.: 4:21-CR-005-O (N.D. Texas). The link below gives the latest updates to that court filings.

 

https://www.justice.gov/criminal/criminal-fraud/case/united-states-v-boeing-company

[0ffshore360]

Investigations and eventual apportioning of culpability is and never was exactly reassuring to the families of victims or for potential future passengers !

At least not when after the Max 8 disasters should have resulted in total diligence across the spectrum of aircraft production.

It seems blame shifting and corporate legal diversions continue to obscure the original motivation of cost saving  for  maximized profit. Is Human life now  considered so excessive in number it can be dismissed so easily ?

 

 

[candide]

8 hours ago, stevenl said:

Boeing is letting them off? Boeing is responsible for the whole mess through their profit first culture. US government has been complicit for many years with this attitude.

Exactly. That's the outcome of an excessive level of financialisation.