Inherit condo, girlfriends will - "PERMANANT " resident or not - have to sell within 1 year

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

12 minutes ago, TigerCat said:

I'm sorry to keep dwelling on this, but something does not seem right. 

 

This link especially:

https://bangkoklegal.com/bangkok-foreign-condo-ownership-condo-inheritance-laws-in-thailand/

 

Is seems to clearly say you have to be a Permanent resident, in order to not have to sell an inherited condo within one year.

 

Do I qualify for foreign ownership?

 

If you think you might inherit or have just inherited a condo, do you meet the criteria required for foreign ownership which is – do you hold a Permanent Residence permit under Section 19 (1) or do you reside in Thailand under the laws governing investment promotion under Section 19 (2)?

If registering the property under your name doesn’t exceed the foreign ownership of 49% and you qualify for foreign ownership, then there’s no problem going forward, and you will be permitted to keep the condominium.

However, if registering your condo ownership will cause foreign ownership in the entire condominium project to exceed 49% or if you don’t qualify for foreign ownership then you are not permitted to own the unit, under the law, and are required to dispose of the condo, within one year from the date you acquired it.

Another critical point to note – Even if the Thai-foreign ownership ratio is not exceeded but you don’t qualify for foreign ownership, then you are still required to dispose of it within one year from the acquisition date.

 

Permanent residents are allowed to purchase condos without having to transfer funds into Thailand. Those without PR must show that the funds to acquire the condo were brought into the country for that purpose. I think this is the issue.

[TigerCat]

freeworld

 

Thank you, I've read that before, but it was not clear to me.

 

Do you agree with Mike Lister and Gottfried?  That even if I am not a permanent resident, if I herniate a condo from my girlfriend's Will, I do not have to sell within one year, as long as the complex is not 49% foreign owned?

[Mike Lister]

18 minutes ago, TigerCat said:

I'm sorry to keep dwelling on this, but something does not seem right. 

 

This link especially:

https://bangkoklegal.com/bangkok-foreign-condo-ownership-condo-inheritance-laws-in-thailand/

 

Is seems to clearly say you have to be a Permanent resident, in order to not have to sell an inherited condo within one year.

 

Do I qualify for foreign ownership?

 

If you think you might inherit or have just inherited a condo, do you meet the criteria required for foreign ownership which is – do you hold a Permanent Residence permit under Section 19 (1) or do you reside in Thailand under the laws governing investment promotion under Section 19 (2)?

If registering the property under your name doesn’t exceed the foreign ownership of 49% and you qualify for foreign ownership, then there’s no problem going forward, and you will be permitted to keep the condominium.

However, if registering your condo ownership will cause foreign ownership in the entire condominium project to exceed 49% or if you don’t qualify for foreign ownership then you are not permitted to own the unit, under the law, and are required to dispose of the condo, within one year from the date you acquired it.

Another critical point to note – Even if the Thai-foreign ownership ratio is not exceeded but you don’t qualify for foreign ownership, then you are still required to dispose of it within one year from the acquisition date.

Legal heirs inherit the property ownership rights of the deceased which, in the case of land, cannot be transferred for more than one year. But in the case of a condominium, can be transferred into the foreign ownership quota.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Legal heirs inherit the property ownership rights of the deceased which, in the case of land, cannot be transferred for more than one year. But in the case of a condominium, can be transferred into the foreign ownership quota.

 

I'm not sure the Land Department will transfer ownership of a condo to a foreigner other than a PR holder without the foreigner showing that funds were transferred into Thailand. I don't think there is an exception for inheritances.

[Sandboxer]

Lol, not one of you geniuses has commented that even if the unit is converted to foreign quota, the "heir" still has to bring in the assessed value of the unit from overseas if he/she to change the title into his/her name. So either way, you are "buying" the unit (and good luck trying to wire that money out again once it has served its purpose).

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I'm not sure the Land Department will transfer ownership of a condo to a foreigner other than a PR holder without the foreigner showing that funds were transferred into Thailand. I don't think there is an exception for inheritances.

That comes back to whether Inheritance laws take precedent, which I believe they will, unless the unit is not capable of being transferred into the foreigner owned sector. Increasingly complex.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Sandboxer said:

Lol, not one of you geniuses has commented that even if the unit is converted to foreign quota, the "heir" still has to bring in the assessed value of the unit from overseas if he/she to change the title into his/her name. So either way, you are "buying" the unit (and good luck trying to wire that money out again once it has served its purpose).

And you proof and confirmation of this is where, in what link?

 

Regarding the second part of what you wrote: sending the purchase funds out of Thailand once the unit is sold, is simple enough. All that is required is the blue tax paid receipt from the Land Office and the banks will transmit those funds, I've done that twice without difficulty.

[TigerCat]

27 minutes ago, freeworld said:

The only thing which matters is the actual laws, not some web sites explaining things around on the websites.

 

CONDOMINIUM ACT
B.E. 2522 (1979) as amended 2008

 

https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/condominium-act-ownership-sections-19-1-19-11/

 

Chapter 2: Ownership of Apartment

Section 19. Foreigners

Aliens (foreigners) and juristic persons regarded by law as aliens (foreign) may hold ownership of an apartment if the are the following:

Aliens permitted to have residence in the Kingdom under the Immigration law;

 

Section Code: 0040 - 0052

Immigration Act, B.E. 2522

Chapter 5: Entering to take Residence in the Kingdom

 

• Details

Chapter 5: Entering to take Residence in the Kingdom

https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/thai-immigration-act-take-residence-in-the-kingdom-sections-40-52/

 

My opinion is

 

If a Thai owns a condo and the condo is in the 49% foreign quota, the condo can be transferred as inheritance to a perm resident or Thai national.

If a foreigner is not a perm residence, the land office must be notified in 60 days and sell up in 12 months.

 

If the owner is foreign and bequeaths the ownership to a foreigner  the foreign ownership can be transferred.

 

 

Thank you, I've read that before, but it is not clear to me.

 

Do you agree with Mike Lister and Gottfried?  That even if I am not a permanent resident, if I herniate a condo from my girlfriend's Will, I do not have to sell within one year, as long as the complex is not 49% foreign owned?

[sungod]

OP where do you live? In Hua Hin and Pattaya I can give you the details of 2 lawyers who will know as opposed to 2 pages of best guesses.

[TigerCat]

Samut Prakarn, thank you.  

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

8 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

And you proof and confirmation of this is where, in what link?

 

 

 

I think the link that TigerCat provided earlier explains this fairly well:

 

https://bangkoklegal.com/bangkok-foreign-condo-ownership-condo-inheritance-laws-in-thailand/

[jayboy]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Your lawyer is correct. 

 

The only way you can become a Resident in Thailand is to become a naturalised Thai subject, foreigners here on long stay visa's are not Residents in that context.

 

Your willed ownership of the condo will depend on the quota's at the time. Assuming the condo was purchased from within the Thai quota (51%), the foreign owned quota at the time of her passing will determine whether the unit you are willed can be absorbed into that quota or not. If it can, you will not have to sell. If it cannot, you will have to sell.

 

 

 

The Tilleke advice suggests that the position is even more constricted.Assuming the 49% limit isn't breached (in which case every foreigner inheriting would have to sell) one would still have to be a Permanent Resident (with red Book etc) or with investment promotion status.

[freeworld]

1 hour ago, TigerCat said:

freeworld

 

Thank you, I've read that before, but it was not clear to me.

 

Do you agree with Mike Lister and Gottfried?  That even if I am not a permanent resident, if I herniate a condo from my girlfriend's Will, I do not have to sell within one year, as long as the complex is not 49% foreign owned?

 

Agree

If the condo is in your GF name and is within the 49%, but who paid for it, did the money come from abroad and will there be an FET?

 

• Foreign individuals possessing a Permanent Residence permit.
• Foreign individuals residing in Thailand under the laws governing investment promotion.
• Foreign individuals who have a foreign currency bank account, or withdraw money from a non-resident bank account, or who bring foreign currency into Thailand.

 

This is what the land dept clarified to someone on some web site.

"The Land Department has clarified this issue as follows – Although the Condominium Act restricts foreign ownership to those who fall under Section 19, and only allows foreigners under Section 19 (1) and (2) to inherit a condo and keep it, the principal law governing succession as specified by Sections 1599 and 1600 of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code (CCC), applies here in cases of foreign inheritance too"

 

 

[Gottfrid]

2 hours ago, TigerCat said:

Why do those 4 websites say that if a foreigner is not a permanent resident, they have to sell an inherited condo within one year? 

That only regards if there is no foreign quota or the quota is filled up. For example, if you inherit land and a house on a plot in your girlfriends name there is no quota. Same goes if the 49% are all ready filled, which simply mean you will fall into the Thai quota.

[TigerCat]

I think I can inherit it, but I still think since I am not a Permanent resident, I'd have to sell it within one year.   

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

23 minutes ago, TigerCat said:

Thank you, I've read that before, but it is not clear to me.

 

Do you agree with Mike Lister and Gottfried?  That even if I am not a permanent resident, if I herniate a condo from my girlfriend's Will, I do not have to sell within one year, as long as the complex is not 49% foreign owned?

 

My understanding:

 

If your girlfriend is a Thai citizen, you would have to have permanent residency or be here under a promotion scheme (BOI or other investment) in order to inherit and not have to sell within one year.

 

If your girlfriend is a foreigner and brought the money into Thailand for the purpose of buying the condo, then you would inherit from her the right to own the condo without having to sell it.

[Mike Lister]

Too messy now, the OP needs to go see a reputable and capable lawyer.

[TigerCat]

This link says you also have to be a Permanent resident. 

 

https://bangkoklegal.com/bangkok-foreign-condo-ownership-condo-inheritance-laws-in-thai

 

Do I qualify for foreign ownership?

 

If you think you might inherit or have just inherited a condo, do you meet the criteria required for foreign ownership which is – do you hold a Permanent Residence permit under Section 19 (1) or do you reside in Thailand under the laws governing investment promotion under Section 19 (2)?

If registering the property under your name doesn’t exceed the foreign ownership of 49% and you qualify for foreign ownership, then there’s no problem going forward, and you will be permitted to keep the condominium.

However, if registering your condo ownership will cause foreign ownership in the entire condominium project to exceed 49% or if you don’t qualify for foreign ownership then you are not permitted to own the unit, under the law, and are required to dispose of the condo, within one year from the date you acquired it.

Another critical point to note – Even if the Thai-foreign ownership ratio is not exceeded but you don’t qualify for foreign ownership, then you are still required to dispose of it within one year from the acquisition date.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

17 minutes ago, TigerCat said:

This link says you also have to be a Permanent resident. 

 

https://bangkoklegal.com/bangkok-foreign-condo-ownership-condo-inheritance-laws-in-thai

 

Do I qualify for foreign ownership?

 

If you think you might inherit or have just inherited a condo, do you meet the criteria required for foreign ownership which is – do you hold a Permanent Residence permit under Section 19 (1) or do you reside in Thailand under the laws governing investment promotion under Section 19 (2)?

If registering the property under your name doesn’t exceed the foreign ownership of 49% and you qualify for foreign ownership, then there’s no problem going forward, and you will be permitted to keep the condominium.

However, if registering your condo ownership will cause foreign ownership in the entire condominium project to exceed 49% or if you don’t qualify for foreign ownership then you are not permitted to own the unit, under the law, and are required to dispose of the condo, within one year from the date you acquired it.

Another critical point to note – Even if the Thai-foreign ownership ratio is not exceeded but you don’t qualify for foreign ownership, then you are still required to dispose of it within one year from the acquisition date.

 

I think the info contained in the link is correct and fairly comprehensive.

 

The summary in the post omits the possibility of inheriting from another foreigner.

[freeworld]

Extract from the condo act

 

Section 19/2. Percentage of Foreign Ownership

Each condominium shall have aliens or corporate as indicated under Section 19 holding ownerships in the units collectively not exceeding forty-nine percent (49%) of the spaces of the whole units in such particular condominium at the time of making the registration of such condominium in accordance with Section 6.

Section 19/3. Notification of Transfer of Ownership

In transferring of ownership of an apartment to an alien or juristic person as specified in Section 19 shall the applicant for transfer of ownership of apartment shall notify the Competent Official of the name of the alien or juristic person as specified in Section 19 together with the proportion of space of apartments already owned by such aliens or juristic persons, and the alien or juristic person who applies for holding the ownership of apartment shall present the following evidence to the Competent Official;

1. For the alien as specified in Section 19 (1), evidence of being permitted to have residence in the Kingdom under Immigration Law must be presented;
2. For the alien as specified in Section 19, the evidence of being permitted to enter the Kingdom under investment promotion law must be presented;
3. For the juristic person as specified in Section 19 (3), the evidence of being registered as the juristic person under Thai law must be presented;
4. For the juristic person as specified in Section 19 (4), the evidence of obtaining promotion certificate under investment promotion law must be presented;
5. For juristic persons stipulated in Section 19 (5), they shall produce evidence of bringing in foreign currency into the Kingdom or evidence of withdrawal of money from Thai Baht account of the person who have residence outside the Kingdom or withdrawal of money from foreign currency account in the amount of not less than the price of the apartment to be purchased.

Section 19/5. Disposal of Apartment

The alien or juristic person as provided in Section 19 shall dispose of apartment in the following cases:

When the alien or juristic person stipulated in Section 19 have acquired apartments by legacy in the capacity of statutory heir or inheritor under will or by other means as the case may be, and when include the apartment already held by such aliens or juristic persons stipulated in Section 19 exceeding the ratio prescribed in the first paragraph of Section 19/2 or not being in accordance with the second paragraph or the third paragraph of Section 19/2;

Where the permission to have residence in the Kingdom of the alien as specified in Section 19 is revoked, or his residence certificate is no longer valid;

Where the alien as specified in Section 19 (1), (2) and (5) is deported out of the Kingdom, and has not received a relaxation or is not sent to earn a living anywhere instead of being deported;

Where the alien as specified in Section 19 (4) does not receive permission from the Board of Investment to stay in the Kingdom;

Where the promotion certificate of the juristic person as specified in Section 19 (4) is revoked.

The alien or juristic person who is compelled to dispose of the apartment under the first paragraph shall notify in writing the Competent Official within the period of sixty days from the date the cause of such disposition occurred under the first paragraph.

For the case of (1), only the apartments exceeding the designated proportion shall be disposed; for the case of (2), (3), (4) and (5), all the apartments owned shall be disposed.

The disposition of apartments under the third paragraph shall be made within a period of not exceeding one year from the date of acquisition of ownership of such apartments, or the date of revocation of permission to have residence in the Kingdom, or the invalidation of the residence certificate or the date of being ordered deported or de the date of revocation by the Board of Investment of permission to stay in the Kingdom, or the date of revocation of promotion certificate as the case may be. If the disposition is not made within the said period, the Director-General of Land Department shall have the power to dispose of such apartment, and the provisions regarding the compulsion of disposition of land under Chapter 3 of the Land Code and the Ministerial Regulations issued thereunder shall be applied to the disposition of such apartment mutatis mutandis.

[SABloke]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Can you explain that please?

If you are a permanent resident, you never have to apply for annual extensions, reentry permits or do 90 day reporting etc. You can't, however, vote or buy land.

 

The process is different if you are married vs single e.g. if you are single you need to have an income of 80,000 THB per month whereas if you are married it is only 30,000. The exact requirements are updated every few years. 

 

[ChaiyaTH]

That sounds like so messed up lol, so when you married together and bought a nice condo on mortgage, worked a whole life together and paid it off, she suddenly dies and you find out the foreign quota is not OK, you are basically 1) kicked out of your own life long home and 2) forced to sell it under the price to a Thai within a year.

 

I would attempt to bribe the juristic person in the condo building to permanently 'reserve' a foreign quota in that case, or just transfer it before she dies. I guess this is one of the few benefits of having a child here tho, at least it can be in the kids name over time, but also still a gamble obviously, accidents can always happen.

[freeworld]

1 minute ago, ChaiyaTH said:

That sounds like so messed up lol, so when you married together and bought a nice condo on mortgage, worked a whole life together and paid it off, she suddenly dies and you find out the foreign quota is not OK, you are basically 1) kicked out of your own life long home and 2) forced to sell it under the price to a Thai within a year.

Thats basically it.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, freeworld said:

Thats basically it.

 

3 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

That sounds like so messed up lol, so when you married together and bought a nice condo on mortgage, worked a whole life together and paid it off, she suddenly dies and you find out the foreign quota is not OK, you are basically 1) kicked out of your own life long home and 2) forced to sell it under the price to a Thai within a year.

 

I would attempt to bribe the juristic person in the condo building to permanently 'reserve' a foreign quota in that case, or just transfer it before she dies. I guess this is one of the few benefits of having a child here tho, at least it can be in the kids name over time, but also still a gamble obviously, accidents can always happen.

The OP is not married to his girlfriend, a significant point I also over looked earlier. 

[SABloke]

1 hour ago, HampiK said:

I guess he mean, when you are married to a Thai you can skip the permanent resident and go direct to a Thai passport (more or less same requirements).

IF you are not married the requirements for becoming a Thai passport (citizen) is more difficult than "only" becoming a permanent resident!

 

Anyway without working (paying taxes) both states are almost impossible.

No, I mean that the requirements for getting permanent residency is easier when one is married. I am not talking about becoming a Thai citizen (which incidentally is easier when married too.)

 

I am responding to Mike Lister who is conflating two separate legal statuses that can be held in Thailand: Permanent Residency and Thai Citizenship. They are not the same thing at all.

[ChaiyaTH]

1 minute ago, freeworld said:

Thats basically it.

What if the condo was owned by a company, and the company owned by her, and him as a minor share holder + will, would that change any? Just guessing it could give more than a year time as as long the company exists, it is still Thai owned.

[ChaiyaTH]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

 

The OP is not married to his girlfriend, a significant point I also over looked earlier. 

What does it change if you are married? I mean it sounds like the same issue? Curious to know.

[freeworld]

Deleted.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

What does it change if you are married? I mean it sounds like the same issue? Curious to know.

I was responding to the two posters who talked about them being married and living in the same condo etc. I don't think being married or not changes the outcome in this matter but it seems less likely a husband and wife would buy a unit in her name only in the first place, it seems self defeating.

[ChaiyaTH]

16 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I was responding to the two posters who talked about them being married and living in the same condo etc. I don't think being married or not changes the outcome in this matter but it seems less likely a husband and wife would buy a unit in her name only in the first place, it seems self defeating.

Not at all, it is super logical to do even, as it is much easier for a Thai to get a proper mortgage and the foreigner is often bringing in money from abroad or working online, having his businesses or jobs abroad (making mortgages again hard to impossible). 

 

All the exceptions to the rule(s) is when people earn this above average amount of money, to even high amounts, where there are some doors opened. I can earn 100K a month and get no mortgage, even having 10+ years statements proving it along with other documentation and company records, getting no condo in Thailand for sure. My girlfriend can earn 40K baht for 6-12 months, and buy any 1.5-2M baht condo, basically.