If there is a God – Why ?

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, they didn't, they walked and swam from Antarctica, much more feasible! No penguins live/lived in the Arctic.

 

   Thanks for pointing that very important bit of information out

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, Dolf said:

I don't have to. It is just a theory as something can't come from nothing. 100 times 0 is o.

 

The only people saying "something comes from nothing" are creationists.  Their majical man came from nothing, existed in and outside of nothing for an eternity of nothings, then said a majikal incantation and poofed everything out of nothing.

[Liverpool Lou]

15 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, they didn't, they walked and swam from Antarctica, much more feasible! No penguins live/lived in the Arctic.

 

   Thanks for pointing that very important bit of information out

You're welcome, always happy to help, glad that I'm appreciated.   It was particularly important from the penguins points of view and for your edification.  Amen.

Edited March 26 by Liverpool Lou

[Srikcir]

18 hours ago, Hummin said:

Absolutly, who can deny the existence of energy?

Created by man:

• "Thomas Young first introduced the word “energy” to the field of physics in 1800, but the word did not gain popularity. Young later established the wave nature of light through interference experiments. The related term “work” was defined in 1828/29 by Gustave Gaspard de Coriolis and Jean-Victor Poncelet  https://home.uni-leipzig.de › energy - The History of the Word "Energy"

[Srikcir]

18 hours ago, Hummin said:

Absolutly, who can deny the existence of energy?

Created by man:

• "Thomas Young first introduced the word “energy” to the field of physics in 1800, but the word did not gain popularity. Young later established the wave nature of light through interference experiments. The related term “work” was defined in 1828/29 by Gustave Gaspard de Coriolis and Jean-Victor Poncelet  https://home.uni-leipzig.de › energy - The History of the Word "Energy"

[Srikcir]

18 hours ago, Hummin said:

Absolutly, who can deny the existence of energy?

Created by man:

• "Thomas Young first introduced the word “energy” to the field of physics in 1800, but the word did not gain popularity. Young later established the wave nature of light through interference experiments. The related term “work” was defined in 1828/29 by Gustave Gaspard de Coriolis and Jean-Victor Poncelet  https://home.uni-leipzig.de › energy - The History of the Word "Energy"

[soalbundy]

18 hours ago, tomgreen said:

I was sent this video by a friend , and his question was ........... If there is a God why would he allow this to happen .

 

I’m in no way a religious man , but my friends question got me thinking .

 

So whats your thoughts on ........  If there is a God why would he allow this to happen 

 

 

Link to the video below

 

https://streamable.com/vb63wj

 

Tom

 

. 

 

18 hours ago, tomgreen said:

I was sent this video by a friend , and his question was ........... If there is a God why would he allow this to happen .

 

I’m in no way a religious man , but my friends question got me thinking .

 

So whats your thoughts on ........  If there is a God why would he allow this to happen 

 

 

Link to the video below

 

https://streamable.com/vb63wj

 

Tom

 

. 

It depends what you mean by God. The word in the Christian, Jewish, and Islamic traditions has childish associations, the spiritual teachings of the mystics have been lost and the books have been reduced to fairy stories. The teachings in the Eastern traditions have a greater validity, especially Buddhism which makes do without a deity. All religions point to the same thing, non duality, many minds but one consciousness which is the background of that which is. That which is perceived is a manifestation not a reality, as the famous Hindu mystic Nisargadatta put it, " That which is real does not change, that which changes is not real", it concerns the fact that nothing exists 'in and of itself'. This was also a consideration of the Buddha when he said, "The world is empty". This doesn't mean he denied the perception of things but that nothing had a reality of existence because nothing existed 'in and of itself'. A human needs two parents, food, water, shelter, sunlight, and  a society, it is given a name and beliefs. It has phenomenal experiences due to causal events which form character and ego, hence there is no independent existence 'in and of itself'. This is why Hindus say there is only Brahman (This isn't a deity as such but more an intelligence or power). Flowers, trees, animals, stars etc. have no existence in and of themselves, they are all causal events. Only consciousness is eternal without change, whether you are 5 years old or 80 the feeling 'I am' remains the same, this is consciousness, God, Brahman, Allah, present awareness, the absolute call it what you will, you are consciousness experiencing your own manifestation, you are the space of silence between two thoughts.

[Hummin]

18 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

 

It depends what you mean by God. The word in the Christian, Jewish, and Islamic traditions has childish associations, the spiritual teachings of the mystics have been lost and the books have been reduced to fairy stories. The teachings in the Eastern traditions have a greater validity, especially Buddhism which makes do without a deity. All religions point to the same thing, non duality, many minds but one consciousness which is the background of that which is. That which is perceived is a manifestation not a reality, as the famous Hindu mystic Nisargadatta put it, " That which is real does not change, that which changes is not real", it concerns the fact that nothing exists 'in and of itself'. This was also a consideration of the Buddha when he said, "The world is empty". This doesn't mean he denied the perception of things but that nothing had a reality of existence because nothing existed 'in and of itself'. A human needs two parents, food, water, shelter, sunlight, and  a society, it is given a name and beliefs. It has phenomenal experiences due to causal events which form character and ego, hence there is no independent existence 'in and of itself'. This is why Hindus say there is only Brahman (This isn't a deity as such but more an intelligence or power). Flowers, trees, animals, stars etc. have no existence in and of themselves, they are all causal events. Only consciousness is eternal without change, whether you are 5 years old or 80 the feeling 'I am' remains the same, this is consciousness, God, Brahman, Allah, present awareness, the absolute call it what you will, you are consciousness experiencing your own manifestation, you are the space of silence between two thoughts.

Humans need something or someone to look up on, leaders to help them, guide them, be it god, gods, gurus, politicians, artists, in it in our nature, or to be a leader. 

 

an absolute truth: Power corrupts

[AustinRacing]

As children we are dependent on a higher power (parents). As we get older we find it difficult (most people) to shake it off. How about inventing one. While we’re at it let’s not limit its powers. Don’t little kids think their dad is the strongest man in the world or their mum has the solution to every issue?

[stoner]

it's like a never ending game of marco polo. 

[Thingamabob]

Think about the Universe, the Multiverse, and beyond. How, why and where were these entities created ? Is some form of God involved ? We will never know. What we do know is that life on our little planet is complex and cruel for many species, and does not offer much to be thankful for.

[Jing Joe]

Gravity, air, electricity in wires, love, and many other things we cant see but can believe in. Food for thought?        Without the "word of God" in the commonly referred-to book "the instruction manual for life" part 2 in particular, and other books that encourage us to a worthy life, where would the world be?

Things were bad enough 2000 years ago, (as are again now,) when just one worthy "golden rule" surfaced:- "Do unto others as you would have them do to unto you" could make a difference again on this beautiful "blue marble planet".      The mind boggles about:- the miracle of our conception, birth, body, brain power, being just the right distance from the sun not to fry or freeze etc etc etc.  The incredible creator is not a "he" but if we are to believe in something invisible and good to daily give thanks to, well so be it.    Each to their own, and yet feeling compassion for those in this forum filled with anger and hatred.      Mmmm... "love makes the world go round" is not very scientific but worthy of imagination and fullfillment?

Edited March 27 by Jing Joe
spelling

[soalbundy]

8 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Humans need something or someone to look up on, leaders to help them, guide them, be it god, gods, gurus, politicians, artists, in it in our nature, or to be a leader. 

 

an absolute truth: Power corrupts

Politicians and religions make use of this weakness to profit themselves. I personally have no such use for idols of reverence, everyone has feet of clay. Certainly I can admire the achievements of others but fame is fleeting. Nobody needs a guiding hand in life, wisdom is inherent in all human beings unless they are mentally ill, the true 'I', conscious awareness, is available to all through meditation which needs no formal practice, one can sink into what is sometimes called 'empty fullness'  in the office, in nature or in a taxi, it is something that frightens and disturbs the ego that wants to believe in its own false validity and needs to pump the mind with continuous thoughts which is why often, practice is needed to achieve inner stillness. The past no longer exists, the future has yet to arrive, only 'now' is available and 'now' has no lack and needs nothing, 'now' is peace....how the ego hates that, its very existence needs problems and enemies.

[Skeptic7]

20 hours ago, ezzra said:

Since when do we know for sure what's god responsibilities' are and what are not?

and until we know that, we can't asked that question...

Since when does anyone know if such a thing even exists❓ The time to begin believing something is when there is solid evidence. There's none...so why even bother with the proposition❓

[Skeptic7]

Oh boy...here they go again❗

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Politicians and religions make use of this weakness to profit themselves. I personally have no such use for idols of reverence, everyone has feet of clay. Certainly I can admire the achievements of others but fame is fleeting. Nobody needs a guiding hand in life, wisdom is inherent in all human beings unless they are mentally ill, the true 'I', conscious awareness, is available to all through meditation which needs no formal practice, one can sink into what is sometimes called 'empty fullness'  in the office, in nature or in a taxi, it is something that frightens and disturbs the ego that wants to believe in its own false validity and needs to pump the mind with continuous thoughts which is why often, practice is needed to achieve inner stillness. The past no longer exists, the future has yet to arrive, only 'now' is available and 'now' has no lack and needs nothing, 'now' is peace....how the ego hates that, its very existence needs problems and enemies.

I do not think you see the whole picture! What have brought wealth and progress to people? I strong ideology brings the best in people to build infrastructure, food supplies, science, inventions.

 

If it was like you think it should be, everyone would go around think there is 19 different sexes, a personal individual god or forces, and everyone could think what is best for themselves. Smoke ganja, open bars 24 hours, family politics and taxes is a fraud, and everything will brake down, 

 

Oh wait a second, 🤔

 

Dicipline and structure combined with good leadership, is what we need, and democracy could be perfect if we where did not have hur heads up where sun never shines, and we just want to be individuals who think we can think for our self. Ego, greed and selfishness is our biggest sin

 

Everything could had been solved with good life philosophies and healthy routines, but, we ar all just humans, easy to distract

[fredwiggy]

19 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Since when does anyone know if such a thing even exists❓ The time to begin believing something is when there is solid evidence. There's none...so why even bother with the proposition❓

Because there is one alternative if you don't believe, and believers don't want to think of anything besides looking forward to going to a better place than this when we die. Solid evidence would be great but a God that lets us decide our fates, which is using faith, shows him more what we are made of. Not slaves but believers. If you wait too long to decide which path to choose, you might die first and come in front of God trying to explain why you turned your back on him, or the reasons you have for not believing, most of which were taught by other non believers you trusted.

[Surasak]

God exists in the minds of men. Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.

[newbee2022]

21 hours ago, tomgreen said:

I was sent this video by a friend , and his question was ........... If there is a God why would he allow this to happen .

 

I’m in no way a religious man , but my friends question got me thinking .

 

So whats your thoughts on ........  If there is a God why would he allow this to happen 

 

 

Link to the video below

 

https://streamable.com/vb63wj

 

Tom

 

. 

That's an old question I'm sure. Already 2024 years old and no answer 😂

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, Surasak said:

God exists in the minds of men. Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.

Do you deny people have religious and spiritual experiences? For those who have, it is very real and true. 

 

Nature is complex, full of controversy 

[Surasak]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Do you deny people have religious and spiritual experiences? For those who have, it is very real and true. 

 

Nature is complex, full of controversy 

Can't deny it, having never experienced it. For those who have, each to their own.

[Hummin]

13 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Because there is one alternative if you don't believe, and believers don't want to think of anything besides looking forward to going to a better place than this when we die. Solid evidence would be great but a God that lets us decide our fates, which is using faith, shows him more what we are made of. Not slaves but believers. If you wait too long to decide which path to choose, you might die first and come in front of God trying to explain why you turned your back on him, or the reasons you have for not believing, most of which were taught by other non believers you trusted.

The only god we will face, is recycling.

 

Cant imagine a god who see everyone, and have record on everyone. The closest I can think of, is WWW! 

 

This have been used and abused by every ideology that someone sees you, and you have to fce the consequences when you die.

 

However family sin exists, and what you do in life, have consequences for your offsprings for good and bad, as well.

 

Eternal life meaning your offspring lives on, and give your dna heritage to the next

[flyingtlger]

21 hours ago, Hummin said:

If earth is mother, what is the father?

Father Time.....

[JackGats]

The question is not WHY there is - or should be - a God. The question is "is there one?".

 

The answer is there isn't. Sorry guys, that personal friend of yours does't exist.

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, JackGats said:

The question is not WHY there is - or should be - a God. The question is "is there one?".

 

The answer is there isn't. Sorry guys, that personal friend of yours does't exist.

I would say you really digged deep for that one 😁

[kingstonkid]

21 hours ago, Gandtee said:

Gods. Invented by humans to keep the masses controlled.

 

The belief is that we were created.  No matter how there had to be something that did it.

 

I have read the bible and debted teh koran with 

 

Whether you believe in god, Allah or any Hindu god, there is one thing that we need to understand.

 

All of these books/religions, along with Buddhism, promote peace, ethics and love thy neighbour.

 

The challenge we have is that man was created with one big flaw.  He wants more.  

 

It is interesting that those people who truly believe in the TRUE life understand that they must love each other.

 

The challenge is that man has and always will be tempted, even from the beginning.

 

The bible, koran, Talmud and Bhudda's teachings are all guidelines for living a true and peaceful world.

 

Imagine if the priests and monks all lived according to their oaths.  

 

From a Thai perspective King Rama IX extolled the virtues and created a plan for all Thais to live a good life under a Sufficiecnncy Economy philosophy.  Imagine if the people had or did establish it.  

 

Why don't they?   GREED

 

As to why God allows these things to happen, consider this.  There have been more and more hurricanes. Tsnumai's and weather-related issues in the world.

 

Who is to say that they have not been a message from a higher power?

 

 

[Hummin]

10 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

 

 

Why don't they?   GREED

 

?

 

 

I agree the religions with offspring from one source mixed with tribal experiences grew in to life guiding religions. 

 

However why people do not do as told, is many reasons. I can mention thais in general lack of interest, creativity, free thinking, motivation comes from many complex reasons based in buddhism, you get what you deserve, pain is growth, total government control, control of how they should think, express themselves, behave, corruption, and more

 

Lack of structure, dicipline and laziness 

Edited March 27 by Hummin

[soalbundy]

34 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I do not think you see the whole picture! What have brought wealth and progress to people? I strong ideology brings the best in people to build infrastructure, food supplies, science, inventions.

 

If it was like you think it should be, everyone would go around think there is 19 different sexes, a personal individual god or forces, and everyone could think what is best for themselves. Smoke ganja, open bars 24 hours, family politics and taxes is a fraud, and everything will brake down, 

 

Oh wait a second, 🤔

 

Dicipline and structure combined with good leadership, is what we need, and democracy could be perfect if we where did not have hur heads up where sun never shines, and we just want to be individuals who think we can think for our self. Ego, greed and selfishness is our biggest sin

 

Everything could had been solved with good life philosophies and healthy routines, but, we ar all just humans, easy to distract

I think you have misunderstood me, I was writing concerning the individual but I think your ideas of 'tight' control go to far. Humanity progressed due to cooperation not repression, that came later due to land possession, the earliest farming communities seem to have been egalitarian with no fixed governmental structure. The increase in population required government not for repression but for safety, the land possessed by the community had to be defended from outside communities. Property rights of the individual had to be protected with regulations. The corruption in government worldwide and the power of industrial complexes leading to wealth inequality is relatively recent, possibly only 2 to 3 thousand years old. Religion played an important role in power politics, think of 'the devine right of rule for kings', in Ancient Egypt the priesthood became so powerful that even a pharaoh had to wary of them. Early religions, as far as one can tell, weren't of a philosophical nature but based on animism and power. The Indus valley in India produced the first true spiritual deliberations which gave rise to the first mystics and eventually Hinduism which is also  linked to Buddhism which came later as a less devine based religion. Certainly the Hindu 'Advaita Vedanta' and the Buddhist '4 noble truths' influenced human behaviour but it would be false to think that people in prehistory didn't know right from wrong, fairness and cooperation is built into every mammal that lives in groups.

 

Spirituality has had to be rediscovered in the west, the basic mystical texts from the Jews leading eventually to Christianity have become so warped over time that the story has become more important than the message so that even the 14th Century German Christian mystic, Meister Eckhart, was tried by the Catholic church, can't have ordinary people discovering spiritual truths, that would destroy the church.

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I think you have misunderstood me, I was writing concerning the individual but I think your ideas of 'tight' control go to far. Humanity progressed due to cooperation not repression, that came later due to land possession, the earliest farming communities seem to have been egalitarian with no fixed governmental structure. The increase in population required government not for repression but for safety, the land possessed by the community had to be defended from outside communities. Property rights of the individual had to be protected with regulations. The corruption in government worldwide and the power of industrial complexes leading to wealth inequality is relatively recent, possibly only 2 to 3 thousand years old. Religion played an important role in power politics, think of 'the devine right of rule for kings', in Ancient Egypt the priesthood became so powerful that even a pharaoh had to wary of them. Early religions, as far as one can tell, weren't of a philosophical nature but based on animism and power. The Indus valley in India produced the first true spiritual deliberations which gave rise to the first mystics and eventually Hinduism which is also  linked to Buddhism which came later as a less devine based religion. Certainly the Hindu 'Advaita Vedanta' and the Buddhist '4 noble truths' influenced human behaviour but it would be false to think that people in prehistory didn't know right from wrong, fairness and cooperation is built into every mammal that lives in groups.

 

Spirituality has had to be rediscovered in the west, the basic mystical texts from the Jews leading eventually to Christianity have become so warped over time that the story has become more important than the message so that even the 14th Century German Christian mystic, Meister Eckhart, was tried by the Catholic church, can't have ordinary people discovering spiritual truths, that would destroy the church.

Well sumed up! 

 

Our best advantage is to create and the worst is to destroy.

 

Unfortunate power corrupts and humans have great selfdestructive qualities and apathy.

 

Easy seen around among some expats, stuck in destructive life cycle pattern, while it should had been their best years retired in paradise.

 

 

 

 

[soalbundy]

Just now, Hummin said:

Well sumed up! 

 

Our best advantage is to create and the worst is to destroy.

 

Unfortunate power corrupts and humans have great selfdestructive qualities and apathy.

 

Easy seen around among some expats, stuck in destructive life cycle pattern, while it should had been their best years retired in paradise.

 

 

 

 

Nothing is right or wrong, only thinking makes it so. Shakespeare

To understand all is to forgive all. Marie Antoinette

You are neither the body nor the mind...there is no body. Nisargadatta.

Ask only, who am I? if you receive an answer it will be wrong but it will show you what you are not (the neti neti statements, not this, not that) Ramana Maharshi