In 2023, Thailand shifted away from cash just as Sweden asked to see it protected

[Lacessit]

9 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Or somebody digging around in a bag looking for the missing 2 THB he/she needs to pay with.

Not guilty, Your Honor. I only carry notes, the coins go into the piggy bank every day.

Men do not usually have handbags, they use their pockets.

[bradiston]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Not guilty, Your Honor. I only carry notes, the coins go into the piggy bank every day.

Men do not usually have handbags, they use their pockets.

Who said handbags? And not only men shop, if you hadn't noticed. So you, and everybody behind you, has to wait while the cashier works out, if it's not done for them, and counts out your dirty, greasy, infectious disease ridden change, which you then put in your pocket for your offspring. Ok. I don't have pockets. I have a bum bag. Got all my stuff in there. Pockets too easy to pick. Not waterproof. Holes. Stuff falls out. Handkerchief wrapped around your notes. Condom goes where? Back pocket I guess. Lube? Cards? ID? DL? Biro that leaks?

 

Ok, you could argue keeping everything in one bag is a big risk, but I've not lost one in 10 years, though I've had one picked. And a pocket or two. You learn to guard against it. Become mindful. Woke, even! 🤣🤣🤣

 

 

Edited April 7 by bradiston

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, bradiston said:

When you need cash, how many times has your ATM been out of order? If there's an internet outage, they'll probably go down. And there's always a charge if out of province, 15 or 20 THB. And who wants to sit in a bank waiting behind people with a clutch of blue books, chanotes, id cards, opening accounts, withdrawing or making deposits? 

"When you need cash, how many times has your ATM been out of order?"

So infrequently it is inconsequential.

 

"And there's always a charge if out of province, 15 or 20 THB".

So what, B20 is also inconsequential.

 

"...who wants to sit in a bank waiting behind people with a clutch of blue books, chanotes, id cards, opening accounts, withdrawing or making deposits?"

No one, but who has to do that every time?

[josephbloggs]

10 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

There was virtually no queueing, and I had absolutely nothing else to do. So why not spend 30-60 minutes, my time wasn't valuable in any way at all, I had nothing whatsoever to do all day other than sit around and BS with friends. It also meant that I got a bit of exercise walking to the bank and back.

I've known of guys walking quite a way to a different exchange bureau to probably save 30 Baht.

Fair enough. It's not for me though.

[bradiston]

52 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"When you need cash, how many times has your ATM been out of order?"

So infrequently it is inconsequential.

 

"And there's always a charge if out of province, 15 or 20 THB".

So what, B20 is also inconsequential.

 

"...who wants to sit in a bank waiting behind people with a clutch of blue books, chanotes, id cards, opening accounts, withdrawing or making deposits?"

No one, but who has to do that every time?

Well, they're just counter arguments to the extremely feeble anti phone brigade's arguments. When have I not been able to connect? Maybe 2 times a year. Charges? There aren't any. ATMs can and do charge. Going to a bank, is it open? Probably not. Is it a holiday, what time is it, is it a weekend, oh they're open in the mall, travelling there, parking, queuing etc etc. You enjoy? I don't. And banks very rarely employ guys as tellers. Why is that? Can't have a "You alright mate? How's it going then?" sort of chat while he's counting your dough.

 

This topic comes up maybe every 3 months or so. I'm pro phone. Got your pension rise yet? That's another regular.

[Bravoxray]

15 hours ago, BigBruv said:

Yep, by that logic we have zero agency + we're all gonna die so why not just give in & join our local 'flying clubs'?

Just to go back to that 'who will run the show' for a bit, I unintentionally omitted the central bank programmers. If money is allowed to become centrally controlled and programmable without other options like cash, precious metals, crypto currencies, the techs are likely to end up with all the power, unless/until AI succeeds humans. Can central bankers control the programmers then becomes the qustion or will the programmers become the central bankers. The IMF has been working on a single world currency, the Universal Monetary Unit (UMU).
Zero agency is a stated goal (not in those exact words). and that is the direction in which we are being herded, although I see it happening in increments rather than in one fell swoop. To prevent this, people must be made aware and refuse to comply. Netherlands, Ireland, Canada, Sri Lanka, India, etc., have and/or are experiencing the insanity of no food and or no cash policies. From reading thousands of posts on many forums, it is pretty clear that many, if not most, people see cashless as something beneficial in terms of speed and convenience, but they are unaware of the nefarious side, the loss of freedom, of rights and privacy, or how relatively easy it is to establish surveillance states with billions of spy cameras, drones, snitches, and smartphones.

Yes, certainly everyone should do their bit, but how many will be able to do anything unless they understand what that bit is about? It is hard to refuse something when one does not know what they are refusing. Creating awareness is crucial.

15 hours ago, BigBruv said:

But back in the real world we still have the option to use cash and support cash only businesses.

Everyone can do their bit.

Use it or lose it.

 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

Who said handbags? And not only men shop, if you hadn't noticed. So you, and everybody behind you, has to wait while the cashier works out, if it's not done for them, and counts out your dirty, greasy, infectious disease ridden change, which you then put in your pocket for your offspring. Ok. I don't have pockets. I have a bum bag. Got all my stuff in there. Pockets too easy to pick. Not waterproof. Holes. Stuff falls out. Handkerchief wrapped around your notes. Condom goes where? Back pocket I guess. Lube? Cards? ID? DL? Biro that leaks?

 

Ok, you could argue keeping everything in one bag is a big risk, but I've not lost one in 10 years, though I've had one picked. And a pocket or two. You learn to guard against it. Become mindful. Woke, even! 🤣🤣🤣

 

 

You used the term bag in your former post.

 

 My car and scooter have my driving licenses in them. My ID is on my phone. Cash, keys and phone are all I carry. Plus a bit of coin change at the end of shopping.

 

Why would I need a biro when I can take a note on my phone? Why on earth would I be carrying a handkerchief, lube and condom? Are you a sex maniac? Seems odd to combine that with hypochondria.

 

At the shops I go to in Chiang Rai, I would say someone paying with their phone faster than me with cash, is as rare as a newly-landed Brit in Australia without sunburn.

 

 

[lapamita]

The real Money#

up to aprox 2008 when the financial crisis strat a lot of centralbanks incl thaialnd and singapore issuing face valued backed goldcoins. sine 2008 they off. ( printing paper is cheaper)

still france issuing them

here a coin ,can buy on secondary market 1000 euro face value( can return for 1000) , gold 20 gr 999 reatil secondary market 1200 euro

New coins are issued with  facevalue 2023  250,500,1000,5000,10.000 euro Goldbacked 60%  SALESPRICE FACEVALUE

if i would live in france iwould have no pappermoney,only this coins bcs i can return daily, in case of any event i have gold#

 

i bought a lot of coins on the secondary market (even selling nonface coins to facevaluecoins), in case gold go down still have the facevalue

 the coins are trading on secondary market at premium to gold of 2-5% and always at minimum facevalue ..for ex 2020-2023 trading at face older versions with higher gold at premium

this coin for ex  1000e face 20gr  today is trading arround 1350  , 1000 e  2011 17gr 1150

250 e -older dif years--3,7gr  at 270 euro

 

so you cant losse ,can only win ( ex intrestrates ffor fixed deposit last 10 years nearly 0)

 

NOTE!! the market is Illiquid ,so need patience for buy second hand..Dealer prices are overpayed ..best place to buy from private germany and france in marketplaces...there are no copys of this coins out ,so dont worry

 

new issues can be bought direct at https://www.monnaiedeparis.fr/fr/ors-de-france-le-louis-d-or-monnaie-de-1000eur-or-qualite-bu-millesime-2024

 

waht is there paper money or epayment card or telephone against

 

( image upload failed  ..go google 1000 euro gold france

[richard_smith237]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I can't lose a wallet because I don't have one. I carry 2-3K baht in cash instead.

I also carry a debit card in a Faraday cage. For emergencies only.

 

So you can't lose a wallet because you don't carry one... But you do carry a cash and card, but consider you can't lose that becasue its not a wallet ??......     This is an example of the flawed justification going on in this thread - its nonsensical. 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Much of the time it stays in the condo.

I simply have no trust in phones. To me, they are a useful tool for various functions, but certainly not to be entrusted with vital financial information.

 

Again, paranoid and sensical... All digital media is open to risk (of fraud) if you are not careful.... 

 

I get this fear - not for the risk for fraud, but for the risk of all the a hassle it would take to replace the apps etc on a new phone (as disabling all the old ones on a lost phone)...

 

... But some of these arguements I'm reading are similar to reading that people will never leave their home just in case they get robbed....

 

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Telstra and Optus are the two biggest telecoms in Australia. They have both been hacked. That's enough evidence for me.

 

The National Health Service got hit in the UK too...   You want to go back to the 1960's where all records were on paper ?...  what about that big warehouse fire ?....    Cyber security is obviously big business because of the risk of hacking and fair enough, thats enough evidence for you.... But it could be argued your 'fear' is somewhat antiquated. 

 

I can carry my phone with me to most countries, and as long as I have access to Wifi (or a cell network) I have access to direct-payments with the simple tap of my phone....  It really is just a 'double-tap' and face recognition and thats it... just touch the phone to the counter-thingy.... job done... so simple...

... And that works in any currency - I just switch the Currency in the Banking App I want to use and were away... no need to worry about individual exchange rates for each transaction etc.

 

 

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I've seen multiple examples of payment terminals being down.

 

Have you really?....  Because I've been using digital payments for as long as they've been around.

I've seen a credit card terminal go down, they got another one.

I've seen the BKK Bank system go down at around midnight, so I paid with SCB QR instead.

 

None of it was a hassle....  Carrying around 10,000 baht in my wallet seems more of a hassle IMO.

 

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I just sail through with cash, provided there is not some idiot faffing around with their phone in front of me.

 

No... You don't sail through....   You are saying to do because you want to make a point on here... But in reality, if a 'terminal' is down, you are not paying with cash or any sort of payment because, the 'terminal is down'...  unless you are in a mom & pop shop.

 

Case in hand - 7-11 terminals are down... can't pay for anything anyway however you want to pay....  You could drop change on a counter and walk out, but thats pretty rude and they wouldn't like you doing that.

 

 

 

When Thai's say 'farang think too much'....  this thread really is a good example of that.... 

 

As you do Lacessit - use whichever method you prefer, because thats what you prefer....  But when I read excuses to justify that preference I'm reading a lot of silly things. 

 

 

[John Drake]

On 4/6/2024 at 12:41 PM, Guderian said:

I just wish the supermarkets would have a "cash only" checkout, I'm fed up of waiting behind gormless people trying to focus their crappy phone cameras on a QR code, and then try to remember what their password was, and then try to figure out how to work the payment app. I worry about what a future of digital money will mean for our privacy, freedom and personal choice, so I always use cash when I can.

 

Won't help if you're also behind someone who has a wad of coupons and is scanning them while the cashier double checks for the items before they go in the cart. 

[ftpjtm]

37 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The National Health Service got hit in the UK too...   You want to go back to the 1960's where all records were on paper ?...

I agree with pretty much everything in this and your other posts, but on this aspect; 

 

I have a sister who is 1000% a technophobe and scared to death of any form of digital transactions. In contrast I've been using every form of digital technology since my US bank first offered ATM's in the 1980's and on line payments in the 1990's. Before retiring last year I ran 2 US based small businesses remotely from Thailand, something I'd never have been able to do without the internet and cashless payments. 

 

Meanwhile my sister uses postal service and checks for any payment she can't make with cash, and has been warning me for more that 4 decades, "wait until you get hacked".

 

Ironically, a few months ago 2 of her payment checks were stolen from a mailbox and deposited into a thief's account. It took her more than a month to get reimbursed for the theft. 

 

I have yet to be defrauded in any significant way due to monitoring accounts and processing payments electronically as often as possible 

 

 

Edited April 7 by ftpjtm

[Lacessit]

22 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

So you can't lose a wallet because you don't carry one... But you do carry a cash and card, but consider you can't lose that becasue its not a wallet ??......     This is an example of the flawed justification going on in this thread - its nonsensical. 

 

 

 

 

Again, paranoid and sensical... All digital media is open to risk (of fraud) if you are not careful.... 

 

I get this fear - not for the risk for fraud, but for the risk of all the a hassle it would take to replace the apps etc on a new phone (as disabling all the old ones on a lost phone)...

 

... But some of these arguements I'm reading are similar to reading that people will never leave their home just in case they get robbed....

 

 

The National Health Service got hit in the UK too...   You want to go back to the 1960's where all records were on paper ?...  what about that big warehouse fire ?....    Cyber security is obviously big business because of the risk of hacking and fair enough, thats enough evidence for you.... But it could be argued your 'fear' is somewhat antiquated. 

 

I can carry my phone with me to most countries, and as long as I have access to Wifi (or a cell network) I have access to direct-payments with the simple tap of my phone....  It really is just a 'double-tap' and face recognition and thats it... just touch the phone to the counter-thingy.... job done... so simple...

... And that works in any currency - I just switch the Currency in the Banking App I want to use and were away... no need to worry about individual exchange rates for each transaction etc.

 

 

 

Have you really?....  Because I've been using digital payments for as long as they've been around.

I've seen a credit card terminal go down, they got another one.

I've seen the BKK Bank system go down at around midnight, so I paid with SCB QR instead.

 

None of it was a hassle....  Carrying around 10,000 baht in my wallet seems more of a hassle IMO.

 

 

No... You don't sail through....   You are saying to do because you want to make a point on here... But in reality, if a 'terminal' is down, you are not paying with cash or any sort of payment because, the 'terminal is down'...  unless you are in a mom & pop shop.

 

Case in hand - 7-11 terminals are down... can't pay for anything anyway however you want to pay....  You could drop change on a counter and walk out, but thats pretty rude and they wouldn't like you doing that.

 

 

 

When Thai's say 'farang think too much'....  this thread really is a good example of that.... 

 

As you do Lacessit - use whichever method you prefer, because thats what you prefer....  But when I read excuses to justify that preference I'm reading a lot of silly things. 

 

 

I use a debit card almost exclusively in Australia. Cash makes more sense here, the day markets don't seem to have got around to payment by phone or card.

 

It sounds to me more like you are trying to justify phones as the be all and end all. They might be, if everyone was competent in using them.

 

I prefer knowing I have made it very difficult for my my money or information to be stolen. If you think that can't happen with phone banking, I have a bridge in Sydney Harbor I would like to sell you.

 

My system has worked for me for over 60 years. I see no reason to change it because you think differently.

[ftpjtm]

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

the day markets don't seem to have got around to payment by phone or card.

At the day markets I frequent (700 Rai Sattahip, Che Junction Bang Saray, Thepprasit Night Market and more) every vendor either has a QR code hanging at their stall, or will produce a Prompt Pay number or a QR code on their phone if you request one. In the past year I have never encountered a vendor who won't accept a cashless payment.

Edited April 7 by ftpjtm

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

You used the term bag in your former post.

 

 My car and scooter have my driving licenses in them. My ID is on my phone. Cash, keys and phone are all I carry. Plus a bit of coin change at the end of shopping.

 

Why would I need a biro when I can take a note on my phone? Why on earth would I be carrying a handkerchief, lube and condom? Are you a sex maniac? Seems odd to combine that with hypochondria.

 

At the shops I go to in Chiang Rai, I would say someone paying with their phone faster than me with cash, is as rare as a newly-landed Brit in Australia without sunburn.

 

 

There's a certain amount of tongue in cheek in there. But you're obviously a literalist. But, just out of curiosity, where do you keep the lube and condom? In the glove compartment?

[Lacessit]

13 minutes ago, bradiston said:

There's a certain amount of tongue in cheek in there. But you're obviously a literalist. But, just out of curiosity, where do you keep the lube and condom? In the glove compartment?

I have not needed condoms for nearly 10 years. I gave up car seats as a place for sex in my twenties.

Do you get vicarious pleasure out of questioning other posters about their sexual history? Kinky.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, ftpjtm said:

At the day markets I frequent (700 Rai Sattahip, Che Junction Bang Saray, Thepprasit Night Market and more) every vendor either has a QR code hanging at their stall, or will produce a Prompt Pay number or a QR code on their phone if you request one. In the past year I have never encountered a vendor who won't accept a cashless payment.

Chaing Rai is not as advanced as the region you frequent, you're welcome to it.

[Gknrd]

They are following China to the tee.  Although I liked it when I was there. Setting up a bank account is next to impossible. So, if a tourist it makes it extremely hard. I hear in China it is even worse.  Just another nail in the tourist coffin.

[ftpjtm]

Just now, Lacessit said:

Chaing Rai is not as advanced as the region you frequent, you're welcome to it.

My wife reports that markets in Lat Yao and Phetchabun, regions less advanced than Chaing Rai, also accept QR payments.

 

In my experience establishmets catering to tourists are less likely to use QR/Prompt Pay payments than establishments catering to Thais. 

 

Have you enquired about accepting cashless payments at your local market or are you just assuming they're not accepted because you're not interested in paying that way?

[topt]

13 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

......   the consideration I give to that is how powerful and valuable the phone has become, such that its seems worth while now to have two phones... one with the simple stuff on it to take out... and one with the various full on banking and other important stuff on it.

Too many extreme examples on both sides and mainly same arguments that came up in the last one of these threads as you indicated.........

 

Although I am more in the cash camp, as reported before due to SCB, I now have 2 phones.

1 is my daily driver but no financial stuff on it. I have left it at home a couple of times recently and not bothered to go and get it....

2nd phone does not leave the house and used almost exclusively for convenience in paying monthly bills and money to my gf................... , oh and now has my UK sim in it for OTPs thus reducing the risk of losing that if in my other phone as it was.

 

Wallet also contains driving licences, ATM card and a a few other cards I use regularly so yes I would have to go back and get it if I forgot.

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, ftpjtm said:

My wife reports that markets in Lat Yao and Phetchabun, regions less advanced than Chaing Rai, also accept QR payments.

 

In my experience establishmets catering to tourists are less likely to use QR/Prompt Pay payments than establishments catering to Thais. 

 

Have you enquired about accepting cashless payments at your local market or are you just assuming they're not accepted because you're not interested in paying that way?

I haven't enquired at the local market about cashless payments. The day market for fruit and vegetables is definitely not tourist. It's about 99% Thais doing the shopping.

I don't know if the vendors would accept digital. IME I have not seen anyone brandishing a phone at a vendor, although perhaps I am not looking.

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, topt said:

Too many extreme examples on both sides and mainly same arguments that came up in the last one of these threads as you indicated.........

 

Although I am more in the cash camp, as reported before due to SCB, I now have 2 phones.

1 is my daily driver but no financial stuff on it. I have left it at home a couple of times recently and not bothered to go and get it....

2nd phone does not leave the house and used almost exclusively for convenience in paying monthly bills and money to my gf................... , oh and now has my UK sim in it for OTPs thus reducing the risk of losing that if in my other phone as it was.

 

Wallet also contains driving licences, ATM card and a a few other cards I use regularly so yes I would have to go back and get it if I forgot.

You don't have a laptop or desktop to do that?

I suppose I could use my phone, but it would be a lot more fiddly.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I use a debit card almost exclusively in Australia. Cash makes more sense here, the day markets don't seem to have got around to payment by phone or card.

I use the credit card as much as possible because I get point (airmiles)…

 

… but guess what. That’s also cashless !

 

For smaller transactions, cash or QR / PromptPay / ApplePay / TrueMoney etc  work perfectly well. 
 

For online - PayPal is excellent or as above, the credit card. 

 

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

It sounds to me more like you are trying to justify phones as the be all and end all. They might be, if everyone was competent in using them.

 

Nope, I want both….

I don’t need to justify the usefulness of the phones - they do that well enough for themselves… 

… but it does seem anyone older than 65 yrs old has a massive aversion to the newer tech & seems to make up excuses not to evolve. 
 

That’s fair enough - it’s a personal choice, it’s just yet flawed excuse that I find entertaining.

 

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I prefer knowing I have made it very difficult for my my money or information to be stolen. If you think that can't happen with phone banking.

But you haven’t…   You can get pick pocketed, have your accounts hacked… never paid for anything online ?

Never seen a bank collapse ? (Northern Rock anyone) 

 

Chances are so little, your concern is the same as mine - extra unlikely.

 

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I have a bridge in Sydney Harbor I would like to sell you.

 

Cool - do you accept crypto payment ? 
 

…. Meanwhile the world evolves leaving you behind…. That’s ok - if you personally prefer cash… it’s just the flawed excuses for your choice that I’m querying - nothing personal. 

 

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

My system has worked for me for over 60 years. 

The bartering system worked for millennia, then coins started to come in. 

 

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I see no reason to change it because you think differently.

Agree…. You see no reason to change the way the use money - that’s fine. 

It’s is the logic & reasoning you are using I find flawed. 
 

if you prefer cash because you are unfamiliar with cashless & can’t be bothered to or are to tech adverse to learn - that’s fine….   It’s the made up silliness that’s, well, just silly. 
 

 

[topt]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You can get pick pocketed,

Funnily enough just read this. The last sentence is particularly concerning although the data is over a year old.

Quote

I have lost a phone twice in the past month. The first one was yanked out of my hands by a thief on an ebike, and the second – its replacement – has disappeared into the depths of the DPD sorting office without a trace. Unfortunately, stolen mobiles are par for the course in London – two-fifths of robberies here are phone-related, with one snatched almost every six minutes in 2022. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/06/the-taylor-swift-gig-economy-is-so-big-its-even-causing-geopolitical-tensions

[topt]

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You don't have a laptop or desktop to do that?

I suppose I could use my phone, but it would be a lot more fiddly.

SCB shut their web access portal last July so app only. That is why I had to get a second phone as my daily is rooted and it was becoming harder and harder to get the app to work.

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, topt said:

15 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You don't have a laptop or desktop to do that?

I suppose I could use my phone, but it would be a lot more fiddly.

SCB shut their web access portal last July so app only. That is why I had to get a second phone as my daily is rooted and it was becoming harder and harder to get the app to work.

Lacessit may well be old school & go into the bank itself to make a transaction which is fair enough if he has the time (again - it’s all about preference), But, I’d be concerned for losing my Passport when carrying it around. 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, topt said:

Funnily enough just read this. The last sentence is particularly concerning although the data is over a year old.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/06/the-taylor-swift-gig-economy-is-so-big-its-even-causing-geopolitical-tensions

Concerns me too…

 

But I don’t want to end up with 3 phones.

1) Financial phone 

2) User 

3) work phone

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

24 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I haven't enquired at the local market about cashless payments. The day market for fruit and vegetables is definitely not tourist. It's about 99% Thais doing the shopping.

I don't know if the vendors would accept digital. IME I have not seen anyone brandishing a phone at a vendor, although perhaps I am not looking.

I’ve never found a vendor who won’t accept cashless… 

 

They all have phones, all have prompt pay - even in a regular ‘wet-market’. 

[richard_smith237]

27 minutes ago, topt said:

Wallet also contains driving licences, ATM card and a a few other cards I use regularly so yes I would have to go back and get it if I forgot.

DLT app has our driving license and since Sept 2019 - it’s legal to show that if requested at a police stop. 

 

ATM’s can be used without a card (cardless ATM with your bank App). 
 

 

[ftpjtm]

32 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The day market for fruit and vegetables is definitely not tourist. It's about 99% Thais doing the shopping.

Same as all of the markets I've mentioned except Thepprasit, which is about 80% Thai. The tourists usually don't have Thai bank accounts so usually don't use the QR/Prompt Pay system which is designed for Thais doing shopping. 

 

But that may change soon, as Asian nations are discussing a QR payment system which will work across the region, so Asian tourists will likely use it too in the future 

Edited April 7 by ftpjtm

[topt]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

DLT app has our driving license and since Sept 2019 - it’s legal to show that if requested at a police stop. 

 

ATM’s can be used without a card (cardless ATM with your bank App). 
 

 

Yes I know about the DLT app but as mentioned my bank app stays at home.