Speaking Thai - is it necessary these days for an expat ?

[ChrisKC]

Expats come in many flavours:

 

If you live in Thailand in what I would call an enclave of other expats and your main contact is with those expats and nefarious Thai women, then you can manage with little or no Thai language skills.

 

In my case of over 20 years living in Thailand, I have always been inside Thai culture, accepting that in order to be successful here with the people there is need for culture compromise, that is, adjusting my outlook on life for getting along and keeping the peace between us.

 

I can speak a lot of Thai language but do not claim fluency, though I know for sure I should do.

 

For all of my time here, I have found that engaging with Thais as much as possible with some Thai language that I am well liked for "trying". I know enough to get me into trouble and enough to get me out of trouble.

 

In fairness, currently, my Thai wife needs to help me facilitate certain things that require more detail and accuracy.

 

I never call Thai people stupid when they don't understand me and they never say to me anything negative with my Thai.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10 by ChrisKC
typo

[NorthernRyland]

On 4/9/2024 at 7:29 AM, kingstonkid said:

I alm looking forward to learning how to write adn read thai so that I understand a lot more of what is going on. 

 

I started learning how to read within months of arriving in Thailand. I just thought it would be cool to be able to read a menu and order food, kind of like a magic trick. You can learn on your own at home easily and it's really rewarding. Maybe the only choice I made in Thailand which I'm 100% confident was the right one.

[Prubangboy]

I’m learning it for my Ma degree in SEA Studies to read old religious texts, otherwise, living in Nimmnan, I wouldn’t bother.

 

If I go to somewhere like Ubon, they’ll speak English at any 1000 baht+ hotel and can likewise hook me up with a driver. If I want to go back to the Mark Weins chicken and cashews place, I’ll bet they have an English menu by now.
 

Otherwise, phone translating will cover 99% of my needs. So yes for reading dead monks, no for chatting up sweet, little Noi.

[Kalasin Jo]

It is common everywhere, in every non English speaking country with British expats. I lived in France for 20 years. Many Brits living there long term still hardly have a word of French. I ended up with passable but by no means fluent French but it took 3 years of weekly lessons and a girlfriend who spoke no English forcing me to up my game! And here I lived there many locals did not speak English either. The best way to learn is to be forced to by circumstances. 

I've been lazy here. Partly because  many thais have some English and there are now smartphone  apps to get what you need across.  I'm regretting that now. My wife and her family had no interest in schooling an old fool like me, happy perhaps that I did not understand them  ( they spea Lao anyway) and relying on my wife for essential communication, both ways. And I wasn't bothered as generally things worked out. But now due to illness my wife's English is failing her and so communication is much harder.

[Gecko123]

11 hours ago, Prubangboy said:

I’m learning it for my Ma degree in SEA Studies to read old religious texts, otherwise, living in Nimmnan, I wouldn’t bother.

 

If I go to somewhere like Ubon, they’ll speak English at any 1000 baht+ hotel and can likewise hook me up with a driver. If I want to go back to the Mark Weins chicken and cashews place, I’ll bet they have an English menu by now.
 

Otherwise, phone translating will cover 99% of my needs. So yes for reading dead monks, no for chatting up sweet, little Noi.

 

Several decades ago I looked into UC Berkeley's SE Asian Studies master's degree program, going so far as to request syllabi for all the courses. I was decidedly underwhelmed. If memory serves me well, the requirements included a couple of quarters of a SE Asian language, and a smattering of courses in the the history, art, literature, culture, and politics, etc. of SE Asia.

 

Having already studied Thai for close to decade, read extensively about the Vietnam and Cambodian wars and their aftermath, read a fair amount of SE literature, and travelled a fair amount in the region, I didn't think Berkeley's program had much to offer aside from a diploma I could hang on the wall.

 

I don't know if the Master's program you're in is more advanced than the one I described above, but if they're even remotely similar, I'm kind of skeptical that a couple of quarters of beginning and intermediate Thai would provide an adequate foundation for reading historical religious texts. One would encounter a great deal of obsolete clerical, Sanskrit, Pali, and Thai vocabulary, not to mention the challenges of deciphering the handwritten script which has evolved greatly over the centuries.

 

Edited April 10 by Gecko123

[eumenades]

On 4/9/2024 at 3:44 PM, thecyclist said:

In the age of google translate it certainly isn't necessary anymore. 

But it helps a lot, especially in the sticks. 

I noticed the difference when I moved to Vietnam a couple of years ago. Vietnamese is even harder than Thai, the pronunciation that is ,not the reading and writing, which is much easier. Since I bike around a lot, I often spent time in places where they are not used to seeing farangs ,and where hardly anyone speaks English. There I really miss conversing with the locals, so much so that I have considered moving back to Thailand just because of the language. 

 

 

I don't really understand all the negativity one gets about learning a foreign language. On my bike travels i have usually been treated with friendliness and respect. They love it if you can speak a few words of their language and it does wonders for International relations.

[eumenades]

On 4/9/2024 at 1:49 PM, transam said:

Do you Wai at Tesco teller.......?    🤔

 Sometimes, yes, but not always. "When in Rome ..."

[transam]

49 minutes ago, eumenades said:

 Sometimes, yes, but not always. "When in Rome ..."

I thought you did..........🤭

[Prubangboy]

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

 

Several decades ago I looked into UC Berkeley's SE Asian Studies master's degree program, going so far as to request syllabi for all the courses. I was decidedly underwhelmed. If memory serves me well, the requirements included a couple of quarters of a SE Asian language, and a smattering of courses in the the history, art, literature, culture, and politics, etc. of SE Asia.

 

Having already studied Thai for close to decade, read extensively about the Vietnam and Cambodian wars and their aftermath, read a fair amount of SE literature, and travelled a fair amount in the region, I didn't think Berkeley's program had much to offer aside from a diploma I could hang on the wall.

 

I don't know if the Master's program you're in is more advanced than the one I described above, but if they're even remotely similar, I'm kind of skeptical that a couple of quarters of beginning and intermediate Thai would provide an adequate foundation for reading historical religious texts. One would encounter a great deal of obsolete clerical, Sanskrit, Pali, and Thai vocabulary, not to mention the challenges of deciphering the handwritten script which has evolved greatly over the centuries.

 

Thanks for your insights. My interest is mainly in modern stuff and interviewing people. Pali etc. is beyond my pay grade, I don’t have years left on the planet for that. My purpose is more hobby learning than being an academic.

[bbko]

While I'm far from being fluent in Thai, I do know many words (a couple thousand?) and always trying to learn more.  The words I remember, it's the high/falling/low/mid tones that mess me up.  

 

I like those farangs that live here for many years and can't muster the basics, they make me look like a linguistic genius, 555.  Even the Thais say "Oh, you speak very good".

[GarryP]

10 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

It is common everywhere, in every non English speaking country with British expats. I lived in France for 20 years. Many Brits living there long term still hardly have a word of French. I ended up with passable but by no means fluent French but it took 3 years of weekly lessons and a girlfriend who spoke no English forcing me to up my game! And here I lived there many locals did not speak English either. The best way to learn is to be forced to by circumstances. 

I've been lazy here. Partly because  many thais have some English and there are now smartphone  apps to get what you need across.  I'm regretting that now. My wife and her family had no interest in schooling an old fool like me, happy perhaps that I did not understand them  ( they spea Lao anyway) and relying on my wife for essential communication, both ways. And I wasn't bothered as generally things worked out. But now due to illness my wife's English is failing her and so communication is much harder.

Total immersion was the way I learned Thai, but when I came here 41 years ago, I didn't have much choice. Worked out well for me though. 

[thecyclist]

On 4/9/2024 at 8:45 AM, fittobethaied said:

Frankly, I just don't care! My Thai wife has been by my side 24/7 for the past 14 years, so I don't feel the need to bother with learning Thai. If anything ever happened to my wife, I'd be out of this God forsaken place so fast, it would make your head spin. I have lived full time in three countries and could never pick up the languages. Let's face it, some people just don't have a knack for learning other languages, and I'm one of them. I once tried to learn Thai when I first arrived, and it was more trouble than it was worth. After a few months of tutoring, I went for breakfast and ordered hot water "in Thai", and the waitress brought me a dinner salad. I knew right then I was wasting my time. The stress and frustration of it all far outweighs any possible benefits to learning the language.

Them making fun of you when you mispronounce by repeating what you said with all your errors preserved, and have a whole group laughing at you , can be kind of discouraging for beginners. Can't remember to what extent the Thais do it ,because I took my babysteps in Thai decades ago, but ,man, do they love that here in Vietnam. 

[thecyclist]

3 hours ago, bbko said:

While I'm far from being fluent in Thai, I do know many words (a couple thousand?) and always trying to learn more.  The words I remember, it's the high/falling/low/mid tones that mess me up.  

 

I like those farangs that live here for many years and can't muster the basics, they make me look like a linguistic genius, 555.  Even the Thais say "Oh, you speak very good".

Very good is what they say when your Thai isn't good.

Puht Thai chat (Speak Thai clearly) is what they say when it has become comprehensible.

[Neeranam]

I know foreigners who have lived here for over 20 years and can't even read Thai.

I met many in Khon Kaen and Kalasin who said the name of their province as it is written in English. 

 

[Neeranam]

7 hours ago, thecyclist said:

Very good is what they say when your Thai isn't good.

Puht Thai chat (Speak Thai clearly) is what they say when it has become comprehensible.

True, kinda went pood thainid noi, pood thai geng, pood thai chaat, pood thai dai.

[tjintx]

12 hours ago, eumenades said:

 

I don't really understand all the negativity one gets about learning a foreign language. On my bike travels i have usually been treated with friendliness and respect. They love it if you can speak a few words of their language and it does wonders for International relations.

By way of example, I find that when I bash Russians, it is very useful to do it in proper Russian.   When I bash Bob Smith, I do it in proper Drunker_Jibberish_BS.   Just by way of a hypothetical example, of course.

Edited April 11 by tjintx

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I met many in Khon Kaen and Kalasin who said the name of their province as it is written in English. 

How else would they say the above or if it if it is written in English on their document or 90 day report!

Do you want them to say it in Swahili?

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

True, kinda went pood thainid noi, pood thai geng, pood thai chaat, pood thai dai.

I thought this was an English Language website!

[GinBoy2]

Well, the truth for anyone speaking a second language is you lose some of the nuances, but if you speak nothing you lose it all.

 

I have a friend who has joined Mrs G and me in Mexico. 

 

Now I'm Hispanic so Spanish is a native language, he speaks pretty good Spanish, but even then when we are with my family he loses some of the essence, especially the humor of conversation.

 

My wife just looks bemused she speaks not a lick of Spanish past Ola!

 

In Thailand I do OK, I'm pretty fluent in Thai and Lao, but they are my 4th and 5th languages, I wouldn't even try to say I understand all of the nuances when I talk to folks

 

So I'd say unless you live in the expat enclaves, not speaking any Thai is very detrimental. Apart from anything else, for a lot of folks it means you are very dependent on your partner for almost any transaction you do, from the bank, market or immigration

[eumenades]

On 4/10/2024 at 10:44 PM, Kalasin Jo said:

It is common everywhere, in every non English speaking country with British expats. I lived in France for 20 years. Many Brits living there long term still hardly have a word of French. I ended up with passable but by no means fluent French but it took 3 years of weekly lessons and a girlfriend who spoke no English forcing me to up my game! And here I lived there many locals did not speak English either. The best way to learn is to be forced to by circumstances. 

I've been lazy here. Partly because  many thais have some English and there are now smartphone  apps to get what you need across.  I'm regretting that now. My wife and her family had no interest in schooling an old fool like me, happy perhaps that I did not understand them  ( they spea Lao anyway) and relying on my wife for essential communication, both ways. And I wasn't bothered as generally things worked out. But now due to illness my wife's English is failing her and so communication is much harder.

 

The French - famous for rude and hostile reactions to non-speakers - open up wonderfully at attempts to use their language. Be ultra-polite, "Excusez-moi monsieur, pouvez-vous me dire ... ?" And they will practically drive you there. Voila!

[eumenades]

On 4/11/2024 at 9:40 AM, GarryP said:

Total immersion was the way I learned Thai, but when I came here 41 years ago, I didn't have much choice. Worked out well for me though. 

 

Not to mention pillow-talk !

[GammaGlobulin]

On 4/8/2024 at 11:29 AM, BritManToo said:

Central Thai is a worthless language only spoken by 40% of the Thai population as a 1st language.

 

My family all speak English, if I wanted to speak another language (in addition to English French and Spanish) it'd probably be Chinese.

 

Better to speak English AND Chinese AND Thai, IMHO, beyond the basics.

 

And, yes...

 

An understanding of everyday passa Thai is pretty much a MUST for people who are not tourists, or who do not live in Pattaya, or BKK.

 

The people I meet often are able to speak very little English, like almost NO English....so then....

How would you communicate with them if you are unable to speak, AND READ, passa Thai?

 

Yes.

Necessary.

Very Necessary, IMHO.

 

 

[daveAustin]

Probably not if you're in a touristy area or Bangkok, but it is nice to be able to speak rudimentary Thai at least to people while on a road trip, example. Or if you're in a jam or a delivery driver calls etc etc. Each to their own, but not as necessary as it might have been. You'll soon all be speaking it if immigration make you sing the anthem and favourite Thai song for your visa though. 😛

[Hummin]

I understand thai, as I understand german, but can easily be confused and also confuse if I try to speak, so I have managed now 7 years living here without practicing poor thai. I have no intention on learning fluent thai in future, because the few thai friends I have speak better english than I ever will manage to do. My wife fluent english, and soon fluent Norwegian. 

 

 

[pub2022]

It is an extremely arrogant attitude to live in another country and pretend that the local people speak your language. To be honest, if I was thai I'd easily send you all to hell, especially those of you who get mad at me for not understanding your slang.

That being said, it's a very difficult language to learn, but this is no excuse, if you're living here you should at least show to locals a little bit of interest in learning and speaking their language. Otherwise you are just a colonialist.

 

[GammaGlobulin]

4 hours ago, pub2022 said:

It is an extremely arrogant attitude to live in another country and pretend that the local people speak your language. To be honest, if I was thai I'd easily send you all to hell, especially those of you who get mad at me for not understanding your slang.

That being said, it's a very difficult language to learn, but this is no excuse, if you're living here you should at least show to locals a little bit of interest in learning and speaking their language. Otherwise you are just a colonialist.

 

 

I think most Thai people do not become offended if Farang show no interest or inclination to learn Thai.

 

Why is this?

 

a. Most Thai believe that Farang are not smart enough to learn passa Thai.

b. Most of the Farang Thai see in Thailand are, in their opinion, way too old to learn passa Thai, maybe...

 

 

[Goat]

On 4/9/2024 at 1:49 PM, transam said:

Do you Wai at Tesco teller.......?    🤔

That wouldnt be a nice bit of whataboutism from a long term expat who can not string a simple sentence together?

[transam]

9 minutes ago, Goat said:

That wouldnt be a nice bit of whataboutism from a long term expat who can not string a simple sentence together?

Really, well here's one, for you..........

 

"Good morning, Goaty, and a lovely morning it is too". .................🤗 

[KhunLA]

To the title ... NO

 

I've gotten by without being fluent.  Of course you won't be engaging in any conversations with a local, but easy enough to get by.   Along with knowing the numbers, some phases you may want to learn:

How much ? ... helps not being overcharged, as may think you've been here for quite some time.

 

I want / would like ... instead of simply pointing and saying how much .. again, helps not being over charged.

 

Where's the toilet ? ... obvious

 

Not spicy (no chili, salt or sugar), may help you food enjoyment ... I actually travel with Cayenne pepper and prefer to spice it myself.

 

I have already ... whether you do or don't, avoid long conversation w/hawkers

 

Take away / return home or eat here