Speaking Thai - is it necessary these days for an expat ?

[JimHuaHin]

A most interesting, but largely uninformed, discussion.

 

May I go slightly off topic.

 

In high school in Australia, back in the 1960s and early 1970s. I spent 5 years learning Latin and French.  The former I rarely used, the latter I can still read with some difficulty.  My five years of learning French spent little time in speaking French - which I have used in Laos and Viet Nam in the late 1970s, and briefly in Quebec, Canada, in the late 1980s (native speakers had difficultly understanding me, not unexpectedly).

 

At university in the mid 1970s, I had many Vietnamese friends (and later a Vietnamese wife).  At that time I spent an hour or so every day learning how to read, write and pronounce Vietnamese words.  By the early 1990s I was proficient enough, but not fluent, in the three main Vietnamese dialects to be able to do my PhD research on Vietnamese communities in Australia by conduction about 450 interviews of families in the Vietnamese language/dialects.  After the research finished, I very very rarely had the opportunity to speak Vietnamese again.

 

In 1976, while studying another degree at university, I was required to learn Bahasa Indonesia, which I found difficult at the time.

 

In 1996-1997 I spent 7 months in Thailand, attached to several research projects at a major Thai university.  Over this short period I learnt enough central Thai to carry on a basic conversation.

 

Almost 12 years ago, I returned to Viet Nam for the first time since 1985, and tried using Vietnamese again for the first time since 1993-94.  After a few days "words came back to me" and after about 2 weeks I was able to carry on a very very basic conversation and read signs.

 

Arriving in Thailand to live just over 10 years ago, I started, for the first time, to learn how to write and read Thai.   I persisted for a year, until I gave up.  The Thai I had learnt in 1996-97 did not return.  And I admit, after a few years here, then in my early 60s, my native English ability slowly declined, despite my reading English works for hours every day.

 

A detour.  I had a friend at work in the early-mid 1980s.  He was in his 50s, a retired Australian Army major, who had be an intelligence officer.  Bruce (his name) wanted to learn Pu Tong Hua (Mandarin Chinese), but no institutions in China would accept him - he was too old, people over 35 were nor admitted.  Every day, he would spend hours trying to lean how to read, write and speak Chinese, but he never advanced beyond the very basics.

 

In conclusion - our brain's plasticity, declines as we age, our ability to learn new skills, also declines over time - for some of us, this decline is very slow, for others it is fast.  Some old people find it easy to learn new skills, new languages, but others amongst us find this task difficult, if not impossible.  For young people, it is easy to learn a second, third, etc. language; for us older people it is much harder.  As a university student in the 1970s, I was "stunned" at how many of young student friends from continental Europe fluently spoke 4, 5, 6, languages, or how some of Chinese Malay/Indonesia/Brunei friends not only spoke English and Bahasa, but also 3+ Chinese dialects.

 

Some of us older people may desire to learn beyond basic Thai, but our ability to do so may not match our desires.

 

Thank you for reading.

 

[BKKBike09]

16 hours ago, bob smith said:

…as you all know my Thai is very good.

 

 

15 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

 Bob Smith's on line persona of being a heavy drinker, and harboring anti-social attitudes towards Thai people does not fit my profile of someone who is likely to have achieved a high level of proficiency in Thai

 

Come now, surely you can see that 'online persona' may be completely distinct from actual persona?

 

Even if not, it's like seeing some fat sweaty bloke in a stained T-Shirt and flip flops, thinking "what a loser", and then finding out he's a tech billionaire or whatever. 

 

[kevozman1]

If you're living in any country you should learn the local language. It's a respect thing and also has pragmatic benefits. No excuses really. 

[Expat68]

1 hour ago, rct99q said:

On a side note, I still find it amazing when speaking with my daughter. From day one I spoke English with her, wife spoke Issan. 

My daughter can carry on  a conversation with both of us mixing English and Thai in the same sentence. Like it is one language! 

Always get a kick out of it. 

 

Also with her being so light skinned, pale like me, when we are in a coffee shop we like to get tongues rolling by speaking to each other in Thai. People around us just stare. In a good way.

 

Dont get yer knickers in a knot, my Thai is not very good, but my daughter and I have this thing were she understands what I am trying to say based on our conversation. 

I found it frustrating years ago not being able to read a menu in a restaurant. Always asking my wife ..what's this...whats that..so  that is where I started. The best thing is nearly every menu is constructed the same way. So once you know the heading - appetizer - fish- pork etc the rest of the items are the same. Now I can for the most part "read" a menu. 

 

When I mixed Thai and English in one sentence it used to send my wife crazy, hence we are longer together so I suppose that was a good thing😄😄

[fittobethaied]

Frankly, I just don't care! My Thai wife has been by my side 24/7 for the past 14 years, so I don't feel the need to bother with learning Thai. If anything ever happened to my wife, I'd be out of this God forsaken place so fast, it would make your head spin. I have lived full time in three countries and could never pick up the languages. Let's face it, some people just don't have a knack for learning other languages, and I'm one of them. I once tried to learn Thai when I first arrived, and it was more trouble than it was worth. After a few months of tutoring, I went for breakfast and ordered hot water "in Thai", and the waitress brought me a dinner salad. I knew right then I was wasting my time. The stress and frustration of it all far outweighs any possible benefits to learning the language.

[newbee2022]

21 hours ago, Goat said:

In Australia we make immigrants speak english, we should do it here also.

You mean everybody migrating to Thailand should speak English?? You're talking about Australians, Americans, Scottish, Welsh, Indians, aso?

I agree. There are a lot of Language Schools around🥳 Go for a try.

[brewsterbudgen]

47 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

Don't need to speak good Thai to pass current 'test' for either, though.

 The current A1 English test for a UK Settlement visa is also very basic.

[Srikcir]

21 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Central Thai is a worthless language only spoken by 40% of the Thai population as a 1st language.

I've heard from Thais in Bangkok province talk about Thai spoken in the Chiang Rai area as almost indecipherable.  And it gets worse when they speak any English.

[Surasak]

I don't see the option for FREE lessons, so this is obviously an advert for classes. Perhaps there's a desperate need of cash?

[udontomi]

Living in Udonthani now for over seven years, I have found that speaking Thai (or Isaan here in the NE) is not necessary for at least two reasons: 1.) There is a LOT of English signage in the area; and 2.)  Many Thais I encounter seem to prefer to practice their English with me.  In my extended Thai family, most speak Thai (central I assume), Issan and Lao languages.  Side note: My sister-in-law taught English in a Thai school and I have a difficult time with her English pronunciation.  And she doesn't seem to want to practice it with me.  Embarrassed?  Maybe.

[LosLobo]

21 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Central Thai is a worthless language only spoken by 40% of the Thai population as a 1st language.

 

My family all speak English, if I wanted to speak another language (in addition to English French and Spanish) it'd probably be Chinese.

The majority of Thais are fluent in Central Thai, the 'lingua franca' of Thailand.

 

Even those who do not speak it as their first language are usually bilingual.

 

Opting not to learn Thai and avoiding communication with Thais beyond one's family can lead to difficulties when translation by family members is not an option.

 

Given the extensive knowledge of Central Thai among the population in Thailand, languages like English, French, Spanish, or Chinese may appear superfluous for those living here.

 

[Bangel72]

43 minutes ago, kevozman1 said:

If you're living in any country you should learn the local language. It's a respect thing and also has pragmatic benefits. No excuses really. 

Cultural appropriation perhaps, some may even find it disrespectful.

 

Sounds bizarre I know but that's the thing about respect, its individual.

 

Lets put it in the same group as "No excuses really for not wearing elephant pants", I hear ya. 

[CygnusX1]

21 hours ago, The Cobra said:

Can you speak Thai beyond the basics ? is it really needed and do you even care ? Just wondered what your take is on speaking Thai ?

After years of trying, my Thai conversational ability wouldn’t even be at the basic level, and I can understand very little of a Thai news bulletin. I can, however, read Thai, (though not necessarily understanding what I’m reading), and I’m surprised at a couple of posters here who obviously speak Thai way better than me, but who haven’t learnt to read it. Learning to read Thai is so simple compared with learning to speak it! After the installer, with whom I’d been conversing in English, had finished putting in my new air con, he gave me the operating manual, apologising that it was only in Thai. He was staggered when I started to read it back to him. I think Thais are more impressed by someone who can read Thai, however poorly, than they are by someone who can speak it with some competence.

[kevozman1]

7 minutes ago, Bangel72 said:

Cultural appropriation perhaps, some may even find it disrespectful.

 

Sounds bizarre I know but that's the thing about respect, its individual.

 

Lets put it in the same group as "No excuses really for not wearing elephant pants", I hear ya. 

 

If cultural appropriation was legit, and not something that only exists in weirdo leftist circles, then I would lose my mind travelling. The world has basically copied Western Europe unless you go into the mountains, Thailand included.

[BE88]

 

Not learning the Thai language is a survival factor in Thailand and it was a good thing not to learn the language because Thais don't understand when I swear at them while driving

[Gecko123]

1 hour ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

 

Come now, surely you can see that 'online persona' may be completely distinct from actual persona?

 

Even if not, it's like seeing some fat sweaty bloke in a stained T-Shirt and flip flops, thinking "what a loser", and then finding out he's a tech billionaire or whatever. 

 

 

After a good night's sleep, it has occurred to me that Bob Smith's online persona might be completely fake, but not for the reasons we have all assumed must be the case.

 

Rather than being someone who is entertaining himself by making up one outlandish and obviously fictious tale after another to alleviate boredom perhaps he is actually on ASEANNOW's payroll as a content generator who is getting paid by how many page views he generates. Perhaps his online persona has been crafted to appeal to the worst demons which haunt this forum, but the motive is pecuniary, not neurotic.

 

This would explain the obsessive posting and the focus on the number of views and replies he generates. It would explain his 'maybe I live in Isaan, maybe I live in Pattaya, maybe I live in Hua Hin, maybe I live in Bangkok', here-there-and-everywhere persona (designed to broaden his appeal). It would also explain how Mike Lister (prior mod) might have had the opportunity (through ASEANNOW) to get to know "Bob Smith"  in real life enough to assess his Thai language skills.  

 

Sorry for the continued Agatha Christie parlor games, but something isn't adding up. One day later, something still smells like fish sauce here, and the smell is getting stronger, not weaker. 

 

Edited April 9 by Gecko123

[proton]

1 hour ago, JimHuaHin said:

A most interesting, but largely uninformed, discussion.

 

May I go slightly off topic.

 

In high school in Australia, back in the 1960s and early 1970s. I spent 5 years learning Latin and French.  The former I rarely used, the latter I can still read with some difficulty.  My five years of learning French spent little time in speaking French - which I have used in Laos and Viet Nam in the late 1970s, and briefly in Quebec, Canada, in the late 1980s (native speakers had difficultly understanding me, not unexpectedly).

 

At university in the mid 1970s, I had many Vietnamese friends (and later a Vietnamese wife).  At that time I spent an hour or so every day learning how to read, write and pronounce Vietnamese words.  By the early 1990s I was proficient enough, but not fluent, in the three main Vietnamese dialects to be able to do my PhD research on Vietnamese communities in Australia by conduction about 450 interviews of families in the Vietnamese language/dialects.  After the research finished, I very very rarely had the opportunity to speak Vietnamese again.

 

In 1976, while studying another degree at university, I was required to learn Bahasa Indonesia, which I found difficult at the time.

 

In 1996-1997 I spent 7 months in Thailand, attached to several research projects at a major Thai university.  Over this short period I learnt enough central Thai to carry on a basic conversation.

 

Almost 12 years ago, I returned to Viet Nam for the first time since 1985, and tried using Vietnamese again for the first time since 1993-94.  After a few days "words came back to me" and after about 2 weeks I was able to carry on a very very basic conversation and read signs.

 

Arriving in Thailand to live just over 10 years ago, I started, for the first time, to learn how to write and read Thai.   I persisted for a year, until I gave up.  The Thai I had learnt in 1996-97 did not return.  And I admit, after a few years here, then in my early 60s, my native English ability slowly declined, despite my reading English works for hours every day.

 

A detour.  I had a friend at work in the early-mid 1980s.  He was in his 50s, a retired Australian Army major, who had be an intelligence officer.  Bruce (his name) wanted to learn Pu Tong Hua (Mandarin Chinese), but no institutions in China would accept him - he was too old, people over 35 were nor admitted.  Every day, he would spend hours trying to lean how to read, write and speak Chinese, but he never advanced beyond the very basics.

 

In conclusion - our brain's plasticity, declines as we age, our ability to learn new skills, also declines over time - for some of us, this decline is very slow, for others it is fast.  Some old people find it easy to learn new skills, new languages, but others amongst us find this task difficult, if not impossible.  For young people, it is easy to learn a second, third, etc. language; for us older people it is much harder.  As a university student in the 1970s, I was "stunned" at how many of young student friends from continental Europe fluently spoke 4, 5, 6, languages, or how some of Chinese Malay/Indonesia/Brunei friends not only spoke English and Bahasa, but also 3+ Chinese dialects.

 

Some of us older people may desire to learn beyond basic Thai, but our ability to do so may not match our desires.

 

Thank you for reading.

 

 

In my case I never had any brain plasticity, failed to learn German at school, took Russian lessons when 18, failed at that, Thai was just the last of total inability to pick up more than a few basic words, not sure my English is that good either. 😁 Mrs who teaches it says women are best at learning Thai, and other Asians.

[Gecko123]

22 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

The majority of Thais are fluent in Central Thai, the 'lingua franca' of Thailand.

 

Even those who do not speak it as their first language are usually bilingual.

 

Opting not to learn Thai and avoiding communication with Thais beyond one's family can lead to difficulties when translation by family members is not an option.

 

Given the extensive knowledge of Central Thai among the population in Thailand, languages like English, French, Spanish, or Chinese may appear superfluous for those living here.

 

Central Thai is used in all Thai television news and almost all other TV programs. It is also used in government, judicial and educational systems throughout Thailand.

[Captain Monday]

I understand a lot and could read. But I could never-ever make myself understood other than simple words and greetings.

[expat_4_life]

40 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

I understand a lot and could read. But I could never-ever make myself understood other than simple words and greetings.

 

There are likely 100 variations of why this is the case ... Thai folks can't tell the difference between rice, white, enter, news or knee (in Thai) when I speak for example.

On the flip side, many Thais that can read and write (even type) English are not so difficult to find especially among the University graduates ... but are often difficult to understand and/or cannot carry on a basic English conversation.

You are not alone out there.


 

[rumak]

23 hours ago, Goat said:

And frustrating for the poor locals who bear the the brunt of this frustration with the the farang pulling faces an using hand signals, often using singlular Thai words and thinking that the Thai is the stupid one for not being able to understand the mess.

pretty well sums it up .   I also have noticed that the non thai speakers either are being led around like a buffalo with a

rope in their nose by their "lover" .............. or barking out demands in English . 

 

 

 

 

[rumak]

17 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

VVVVV

translation :   55555    

 

for non thai speakers :   huhhhhh?

[rumak]

15 hours ago, Acharn said:

Thai nouns don't have a plural form, and Thai verbs don't have tenses. Thai grammar is actually pretty simple.

 

Q :"eat rice... or not yet ? "     

A:  "eat already" 

 

simple ! 

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, JimHuaHin said:

In conclusion - our brain's plasticity, declines as we age, our ability to learn new skills, also declines over time - for some of us, this decline is very slow, for others it is fast.  Some old people find it easy to learn new skills, new languages, but others amongst us find this task difficult, if not impossible.  For young people, it is easy to learn a second, third, etc. language; for us older people it is much harder.  As a university student in the 1970s, I was "stunned" at how many of young student friends from continental Europe fluently spoke 4, 5, 6, languages, or how some of Chinese Malay/Indonesia/Brunei friends not only spoke English and Bahasa, but also 3+ Chinese dialects.

 

Some of us older people may desire to learn beyond basic Thai, but our ability to do so may not match our desires.

 

+1 with your comments - absolutely agree and like the 'plasticity' comment. 

 

One point this thread thus far makes abundantly clear is the is the 'respect' aspect to speaking Thai.

 

Some folk living here give off the impression that they have no respect whatsoever for Thai's and those around them, so why would they bother making the effort to learn Thai - there is an element of 'superiority complex' to many of their comments, not just in this thread but in other threads too. 

I'm not sure what makes a person like this, but I think its a defence mechanism for being an outright pr!ck and knowing those around them can see through them.

 

 

There are of course those who who make effort with varying degrees of success to mastering the language, to picking up a little. 

As mentioned many struggle to learn Thai for various reasons but a little effort goes a long way and those around us can clearly identifiy those prepare to 'attempt' to speak Thai and integrate and that goes a long way.

 

Two distinct groups: 

1) Why bother

2) Try

 

I imagine the day to day lives of those who are prepared to give it [learning Thai] a try is more enjoyable than those who's attitude is 'why bother'.... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GarryP]

What about those who live upcountry and have no western social group in their village/area? If they can't speak Thai, and the only one who can speak English is their wife, it must get very lonely unless they are introverts. 

 

I understand that living in Bangkok or tourist destinations may be a bit different, but the advantages of learning the language are numerous. I do not rely on my wife for any help with communication, whether that be with officialdom, family, the local market, builders, etc. I would actually find it a bit demeaning if I had to rely on my wife for all communication. 

 

On a side note, I bet many of the posters who moved here from the UK would bang on all day long that immigrants to the UK must learn the local language, i.e. English, yet when they moved here they never intended to learn the local language. Hypocrites perhaps?

[transam]

1 minute ago, GarryP said:

What about those who live upcountry and have no western social group in their village/area? If they can't speak Thai, and the only one who can speak English is their wife, it must get very lonely unless they are introverts. 

 

I understand that living in Bangkok or tourist destinations may be a bit different, but the advantages of learning the language are numerous. I do not rely on my wife for any help with communication, whether that be with officialdom, family, the local market, builders, etc. I would actually find it a bit demeaning if I had to rely on my wife for all communication. 

 

On a side note, I bet many of the posters who moved here from the UK would bang on all day long that immigrants to the UK must learn the local language, i.e. English, yet when they moved here they never intended to learn the local language. Hypocrites perhaps?

Being from the UK I have no interest in learning the language, when in the UK school I also had no interest in learning French, which we were told would be a great asset...😂

For me, been living here for many years, I get by not speaking Thai/Laos, when I did speak it, folk just looked at each other...😂....so now don't bother, except some very basic stuff.

I have even spoken Queens English with Uni-English Thais, same thing, don't understand me, though to be fair, if I phone 3BB, press 9 for English, with a problem, they understand me perfectly, 10 out of 10........

 

So no, if you want to learn Thai/Laos, great, but get to a stage where you can converse, if not, waste of time....🤗

[simon43]

20 hours ago, proton said:

 

Is it Urdu when in Leicester then 😄

Lol, my parents took me out of the government primary school in the early 1960s and put me in a private prep school after we started having morning assembly in (probably) Hindi - the Urdu-speakers arrived a few years later...

[BKKBike09]

What's happened to the mysterious OP?

 

Still waiting for him/her to let us all know how long he/she has bene here, and whether he/she speaks any Thai etc.

[Stevemercer]

The older you get, the harder it is to pick up a new language. Peoples' brains are wired differently - some are good at languages and arts, others are good at mathematics and science. 

 

Girls are generally better at languages and boys are better at engineering-type skills. Thai gifted classes for English are nomally about 80% girls and 15% ladyboys reflecting this wiring of the brain.

 

I am good at sciences, but very poor at languages. I can learn through association, but am poor at rote learning. 

 

Most elderly farang will be up against it in learning a new language. I would say you do not really need good Thai language skills if you are retired/not working and have a Thai wife/girlfriend. Most things you can manage with a little experience (eg going to the hospital, visa renewals, new driving licence, day-to-day shopping and typical daily interactions). You can manage more unusual purchases through showing a photo or buying on the web. Not speaking Thai is seldom a handicap in dating/entertainment etc. 

 

I think a ready smile, polite and calm manner and generous nature will get you through Thailand. By contrast, if you rarely smile, are often rude or disrespectful or are not generous by nature, the best Thai language skills won't get you far.

 

I think you need Thai language skills if you are working here, raising a family, are young and looking for opportunities or want to make a living and want to spend the rest of your life in Thailand.

[PoorSucker]

Lived on Samui for 15 years, Pattaya now 2.5 years.

Nobody understand my Samui accent.

Learn Central accent what they speak on TV, Tai (southern accent) is very hard for central and northern Thai.

When my Thai son 12 years old, born on Sami comes and visit they acctually ask him to speak English

Edited April 9 by PoorSucker