Why Did Hamas Attack Israel on Oct 7th 2023 a Historical Perspective

[fasteddie]

22 hours ago, Furioso said:

War, what's it good for? 

The military industrial complex?

[Scott Tracy]

8 hours ago, Freddy42OZ said:

Make it an offence for parents, who are already brainwashed to believe the religious nonsense, to brainwash their kids.  This would break the cycle of belief in these ancient stories.

The Soviet Union tried that. Religion is the opium of the people. Remember that?

[kiwikeith]

On 4/12/2024 at 1:19 AM, Furioso said:

War, what's it good for? 

Arms manufacture, terror and money. 

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Scare tactics ,

Trying to make people afraid of Muslim immigrants and so turn against Israel .

*Save Europe from a Muslim invasion by opposing Israel* 

Desperation right there 

Traumatized immigration from any country can be problematic, and here is a great source of waves with Palestinian emigrants 

 

 

Since the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, Palestinians have experienced several waves of exile and have spread into different host countries around the world.^[6] In addition to the more than 700,000 Palestinian refugees of 1948, hundreds of thousands were also displaced in the 1967 Six-Day War. In fact, after 1967, a number of young Palestinian men were encouraged to migrate to South America.^[7] Together, these 1948 and 1967 refugees make up the majority of the Palestinian diaspora.^[6][8] Besides those displaced by war, others have emigrated overseas for various reasons such as work opportunity, education^[9][10] and religious persecution.^[8] In the decade following the 1967 war, for example, an average of 21,000 Palestinians per year were forced out of Israeli-controlled areas.^[11] The pattern of Palestinian flight continued during the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_diaspora

[Jeff the Chef]

The 1946 Anglo-American Committee and the missed opportunity for a democratic Palestine
Was another Palestine possible in 1946, two years before the Nakba? The Anglo-American Committee was a missed chance which resonates today, writes Lori Allen.

Seventy-eight years ago, on 20 April 1946, six American and six British investigators issued a report on the Palestine “problem” and the fate of Europe’s Jews. Until then, there was still a chance at some kind of peaceful future in Palestine.

Those chances seem so far away right now. But maybe we can learn from the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry and see the openings present today with fresh eyes, before they vanish, too.

 

https://www.newarab.com/opinion/lessons-history-democratic-palestine

[Yellowtail]

20 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The Gaza Strip is controlled by Israel. This was one of the reasons for Oct 7.

If Israel controls Gaza, why is it taking them so long to eradicate Hamas and to get the hostages back? 

 

And how did Hamas build all those tunnels that the hide with hamaspitals? 

[Njoku]

On 4/11/2024 at 8:38 PM, rattlesnake said:

Israel actively helped create and supported Hamas, in order to weaken Arafat's PLO. The strategy was to use this engineered terrorism threat to justify retaliation and the implementation of the occupation as per the Greater Israel plan (cf. Oded Yinon's book The Zionist Plan for the Middle East, 1982) and stall the creation of a Palestinian state.

 

The Intercept wrote a good piece about it (pasting excerpts and the link below).

 

Andrew Higgins also wrote a very good article for The Wall Street Journal on the matter in 2009, How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas, I am not posting it here as it is accessible behind a paywall, but I recommend it to those interested in furthering their knowledge on the issue.

 

BLOWBACK: HOW ISRAEL WENT FROM HELPING CREATE HAMAS TO BOMBING IT
“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Back in the mid-1980s, Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. “I … suggest focusing our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster before this reality jumps in our face,” he wrote.

 

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

Well that's interesting, ISIS again, well the real reasoning might not be quite like they claim but would I think that right wing Israelis wouldn't try something?  Lot of people on both sides have there heads lost in the clouds, cut the money and weapons supplies to both sides and get out of the way.

[Neeranam]

Jewish American political scientist Norman Finkelstein says if Hamas must be dismantled for its actions on 7 October, then the Israeli government has to be dismantled ‘10 times over’.

 

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240130-norman-finkelstein-criticises-double-standards-on-israel/

[Nick Carter icp]

On 6/12/2024 at 7:51 AM, Neeranam said:

The Gaza Strip is controlled by Israel. This was one of the reasons for Oct 7.

 

  Israel controls is own borders adjacent to the Gaza strip , all Countries control their own borders 

[Nick Carter icp]

On 6/12/2024 at 7:53 AM, Neeranam said:

The first terrorists in this conflict  were to become Israelis. Research King David Hotel.

 

  Nope .

Israel wasn't a Country back then in 1946 , the inhabitants of the land were Palestinians . So it was the Palestinians who bombed that hotel 

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Nope .

Israel wasn't a Country back then in 1946 , the inhabitants of the land were Palestinians . So it was the Palestinians who bombed that hotel 

More correct

 

The militant right-wing Zionist underground organization Irgun during the Jewish insurgency

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

More correct

 

The militant right-wing Zionist underground organization Irgun during the Jewish insurgency

 

  Just stating  that they were Palestinians and not Israelis 

[Hummin]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Just stating  that they were Palestinians and not Israelis 

 

 

And their target and function was? Eliminate Palestinian Arabs!

 

An underground Zionist organization founded in 1931, supported largely by the non‐socialist elements among the Jewish settlers in Palestine. Originally aimed at Palestinian Arabs, from 1939 onwards Irgun targeted British Mandate forces as well

https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803100010937

[Neeranam]

11 minutes ago, Hummin said:

More correct

 

The militant right-wing Zionist underground organization Irgun during the Jewish insurgency

They were terrorists.

Menachem Begin, who later became the Prime Minister of Israel, was one of the leaders of the Irgun, responsible for the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946.

Edited June 19 by Neeranam

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, Neeranam said:

They were terrorists.

Menachem Begin, who later became the Prime Minister of Israel, was one of the leaders of the Irgun, responsible for the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946.

 

  Yes, we ALL know , that gets mentioned in every thread about Israel .

Everybody knows, you don't have to keep posting it over and over again 

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

They were terrorists.

Menachem Begin, who later became the Prime Minister of Israel, was one of the leaders of the Irgun, responsible for the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946.

Most normal intellectual people know that, and do not separate one terror regime from another, and do not overlook how they manage to capture land, and continue to steal and rape without consequences.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Most normal intellectual people know that, and do not separate one terror regime from another, and do not overlook how they manage to capture land, and continue to steal and rape without consequences.

 

  Are you and Neeranan both  normal intellectual people ?

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Most normal intellectual people know that, and do not separate one terror regime from another, and do not overlook how they manage to capture land, and continue to steal and rape without consequences.

Indeed, Menachem Begin was wanted by the British authorities for his involvement in terrorist activities during the British Mandate of Palestine. As a leader of the Irgun, a Zionist paramilitary group, Begin was implicated in several violent operations, most notably the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946. The Irgun's actions, including bombings, assassinations, and other forms of militant resistance, were aimed at ending British rule and establishing a Jewish state in Palestine. Because of these activities, the British authorities considered Begin and his associates as terrorists, and he was on their wanted list for his role in orchestrating and leading these attacks. 

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed, Menachem Begin was wanted by the British authorities for his involvement in terrorist activities during the British Mandate of Palestine. As a leader of the Irgun, a Zionist paramilitary group, Begin was implicated in several violent operations, most notably the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946. The Irgun's actions, including bombings, assassinations, and other forms of militant resistance, were aimed at ending British rule and establishing a Jewish state in Palestine. Because of these activities, the British authorities considered Begin and his associates as terrorists, and he was on their wanted list for his role in orchestrating and leading these attacks. 

And who doesn't say terrorism pays off, still do, 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed, Menachem Begin was wanted by the British authorities for his involvement in terrorist activities during the British Mandate of Palestine. As a leader of the Irgun, a Zionist paramilitary group, Begin was implicated in several violent operations, most notably the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946. The Irgun's actions, including bombings, assassinations, and other forms of militant resistance, were aimed at ending British rule and establishing a Jewish state in Palestine. Because of these activities, the British authorities considered Begin and his associates as terrorists, and he was on their wanted list for his role in orchestrating and leading these attacks. 

 

   Really ?

How come no ones ever mentioned that before ?

🤔

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Are you and Neeranan both  normal intellectual people ?

Intellectual people might see through the bs and see two evil, but still understand both sides motives for what they have done, and why the conflict continues, and make no excuses? 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Intellectual people might see through the bs and see two evil, but still understand both sides motives for what they have done, and why the conflict continues, and make no excuses? 

 

   Are you intellectual ? 

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Intellectual people might see through the bs and see two evil, but still understand both sides motives for what they have done, and why the conflict continues, and make no excuses? 

I think many Israelis/US Jews are blinkered. However, there are leading experts who are Jewish and see both sides, some examples are the professors - 

Ilan Pappé

Norman Finkelstein

Marc Ellis

Shlomo Sand

Sara Roy

 

I didn't give these dudes much time in the past as I was told they were antisemitic. Nothing could be farther from the truth. 

I will not talk to anyone who calls those who criticize Israel policy as antisemitic, as it is very ignorant. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 19 by Neeranam

[Nick Carter icp]

11 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Intellectual people might see through the bs and see two evil, but still understand both sides motives for what they have done, and why the conflict continues, and make no excuses? 

 

   It doesn't take much intellect just to blame Jews /Israelis for everything.

   "Why is this the Jews fault"  

[Nick Carter icp]

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I think many Israelis/US Jews are blinkered. However, there are leading experts who are Jewish and see both sides, 

 

Right e ho

So its important and necessary to hear both sides of the story ?

 

 

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 

I will not talk to anyone who calls those who criticize Israel policy as antisemitic, as it is very ignorant. 

 

 

   But you don't listen to the other side of the story ?

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   It doesn't take much intellect just to blame Jews /Israelis for everything.

   "Why is this the Jews fault"  

You did not understand what I wrote did you? 

 

Intellectual people might see through the bs and see two evil, but still understand both sides motives for what they have done, and why the conflict continues, and make no excuses? 

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

You did not understand what I wrote did you? 

 

Intellectual people might see through the bs and see two evil, but still understand both sides motives for what they have done, and why the conflict continues, and make no excuses? 

 

  You are highly intellectual and I am not , is it any wonder I cannot understand what you write ?

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  You are highly intellectual and I am not , is it any wonder I cannot understand what you write ?

If that's how you feel when I write as I do, then, 

 

Intellectual people might see through the bs and see two evil, but still understand both sides motives for what they have done, and why the conflict continues, and make no excuses? 

[Nick Carter icp]

18 minutes ago, Hummin said:

 

 

Intellectual people might see through the bs and see two evil, but still understand both sides motives for what they have done, and why the conflict continues, and make no excuses? 

 

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

 

 

Intellectual people might see through the bs and see two evil, but still understand both sides motives for what they have done, and why the conflict continues, and make no excuses? 

 

 

I am so un intellectual, that you have to tell me the same thing twice within 12 minutes .

  I do wish that I had some intelligence like you 

[Nick Carter icp]

22 minutes ago, Hummin said:

You did not understand what I wrote did you? 

 

Intellectual people might see through the bs and see two evil, but still understand both sides motives for what they have done, and why the conflict continues, and make no excuses? 

 

   It is quite simply and you don't need to have much intelligence to understand why there is a war in Gaza . 

•  Israel exists as a Country .
• Palestinians refuse to accept the existence of an Israeli state .
• Palestineians attack Israel every chance they get