Thailand faces a decline in British tourists and expats: Causes and Consequences

[BigBruv]

Just now, spidermike007 said:

I don't use Twitter, I don't like Twitter, so links like this are of no use to a decent percentage of the population. 

 

I read your mind and edited just after posting ; )

[BigBruv]

 

Back to the OP, IMHO the thrill has gone and Thailand is a bit old hat for Brits now (mongers aside).

There's little mystery in Thailand anymore (the west has Thai restaurants and ladyboys too) - everyone knows what it has to offer.  'Wow' factors gone.

 

For zoomers that's bad tinny music played at earbleed level + mindless 'fun'.

IMHO western zoomers are a bit dead eyed cynical / sophisticated for that - esp at current exchange rates / prices.

 

Middle aged Brits (mongers aside) have been enough times already and are often married so can't indulge in the only genuine world class 'hub' thing about Thailand.

 

It's now for the Indians and people from other developing/3rd world to enjoy

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 23 by BigBruv

[BigBruv]

25 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

alot of Western women, who have absolutely no ability to identify with their innate femininity, which of course is the quality that most men find most appealing. Without that, what do they have really? Not much. 

 

Western women have cold hard cash esp. with positive(?) discrimination.

 

Boomers are a unique generation who reallly did have the rub of the green.

Single earners with low level jobs were paid enough for large (by todays standards) properties that can be rented out for loads of money to fund decent retirements in low cost countries.  It's different for zoomers and millenials now so probably not in their thinking.

 

Most men now need a 'partner' just to be able to afford the rent on a decent place.

 

OT but from the BoomersAreTumours (lol) reddit https://odysee.com/@Blackpilled:b/the-great-boomer-deception:d?src=embed&t=598.292852

[farangkinok]

On 4/22/2024 at 12:32 PM, Stocky said:

Nikki does speak very good English apparently.

I think my granddaughter's only had one Brit as her foreign English teacher. Previous teachers have been, in no particular order, Australian, South African, Moroccan, Canadian and British. The Moroccan guy Mr Habibi, was excellent.

For anyone who is wondering, my comment was one single solitary word, "otlichno" which means "great" in Russian.

[Andrew65]

On 4/21/2024 at 9:35 AM, Scouse123 said:

 

 

I don't think it is cheaper than Thailand, expats go there because they don't have the financial requirements to obtain a visa.

 

They pay for a visa once a year and that is all. No reporting every 90 days etc and no money in the bank, however, those are the only advantages in my view.

Booze & smokes are cheaper. 

[MicroB]

On 4/20/2024 at 9:30 AM, Misty said:

 

So where are British going instead?

The most recent data is to 2022:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/datasets/ukresidentsvisitsabroad

 

If you consider Britons traveling to APAC as a market (ie. the choice isn't between Thailand and Benidorm this year), then before the pandemic, about 8-9% of Britons going on holiday/visiting Asia were picking Thailand. In 2021, that dipped to 3%, and it looks like India benefited from that (though India travel will be a mix of holidays, a lot of family visits and business reconnections) and in 2022, it went back up to 8%. If I strip out India and Pakistan, then in 2022, Thailand attracted 18% of British visitors to APAC, compared to 13-15% prepandemic. Non-HK China has collapsed; 16% before pandemic and 3% in 2022; 14% in 2021. Other Asia (Cambodia, Indonesia, Vietnam etc) went from 34% to 48-51%, and that seems to be at the expense of China, and, to a lesser degree, Japan and Hong Kong.

 

Countries in this selection are

 

Hong Kong (China)

Other China

India

Japan

Pakistan

Sri Lanka

Thailand

Other Asia

Australia

New Zealand

 

 

But if I consider a wider range of destinations, then a slight different story. Comparing % share in 2022 to 2019, only the following countries have increased their share. The dominating feature, except for Brazil, is the Package Holiday. Destinations more associated with more independant travel, which is basically Asia, have lost out. I suspect there is a combination of cost; the destinations closer to the UK will be cheaper, but also, post COVID, security, ie having the support of a Tui, Virgin etc to not strand you at an airport etc.. Its more complex that that, because you also have to get into spend, nights stayed etc, which is all in that data source.

 

One take away is that Thailand has to work hard to get the Tour Operators to fill up flights, charters. Something that might be distorting is hotel vacancies; has Thailand become a place where there are more people living out of a Hotel room?

 

The biggest losers, in terms of the holiday share, are USA, Cyprus, France, Ireland, China, Japan, and Other Asia (Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia etc) Thailand is down 0.2%, but Sri Lanka, which has more package tours, is down 0.1%. Interestingly, USA is down 0.8%, Canada is down 0.12%. I put that down to Florida (Disney) being too expensive. The £:$ during that period wasn't too bad.

 

Greece

Portugal

Spain

Turkey

Egypt

Morocco

Barbados

Jamaica

Other Caribbean

Brazil

Mexico

Fly/cruise (stay onboard)

[Scouse123]

5 hours ago, BigBruv said:

 

Back to the OP, IMHO the thrill has gone and Thailand is a bit old hat for Brits now (mongers aside).

There's little mystery in Thailand anymore (the west has Thai restaurants and ladyboys too) - everyone knows what it has to offer.  'Wow' factors gone.

 

For zoomers that's bad tinny music played at earbleed level + mindless 'fun'.

IMHO western zoomers are a bit dead eyed cynical / sophisticated for that - esp at current exchange rates / prices.

 

Middle aged Brits (mongers aside) have been enough times already and are often married so can't indulge in the only genuine world class 'hub' thing about Thailand.

 

It's now for the Indians and people from other developing/3rd world to enjoy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Think you have summed it up well tbh.

[Scouse123]

51 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

Booze & smokes are cheaper. 

 

I don't smoke but I thought cigs were cheap enough in Thailand, not the 12/13 GBP I hear about in the UK.

 

Booze, well Red wine is a better deal in Cambodia.

 

But for accommodation, Thailand wins for variety and value for money, electricity Thailand wins price-wise, Healthcare is Thailand and so are fresh fruits and vegetables.

[Scouse123]

5 hours ago, BigBruv said:

 

Western women have cold hard cash esp. with positive(?) discrimination.

 

Boomers are a unique generation who reallly did have the rub of the green.

Single earners with low level jobs were paid enough for large (by todays standards) properties that can be rented out for loads of money to fund decent retirements in low cost countries.  It's different for zoomers and millenials now so probably not in their thinking.

 

Most men now need a 'partner' just to be able to afford the rent on a decent place.

 

OT but from the BoomersAreTumours (lol) reddit https://odysee.com/@Blackpilled:b/the-great-boomer-deception:d?src=embed&t=598.292852

 

 

Older Western women from the UK are heading to The Gambia, Kenya, Tunisia etc and it ain't for the beaches.

[kimamey]

On 4/20/2024 at 2:43 AM, spidermike007 said:

Thailand has been facing a decline in Western tourists for a decade now. There are a dozen good reasons why Westerners don't visit Thailand as much as they used to. I was recently in Phuket and I would estimate the population of foreigners was 40% Russian, 20% Arab, 20% Malaysian and Chinese, 15% Indian, and about 2% Westerners and a sprinkling of some others. It was a low end crowd. 

 

The sad truth is that Thailand is not doing anything to improve itself they are making absolutely no effort to tackle air quality environmental issues traffic congestion or any other problems plaguing the nation. It seems to be a combination of sloth lack of vision and extreme arrogance. 

Surely this is a good thing as it will help tackle the overtourism mentioned in another thread on here. Unless they want less tourists but more Brits. And why wouldn't they.

 

Edited April 23 by kimamey

[BigBruv]

1 hour ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

Older Western women from the UK are heading to The Gambia, Kenya, Tunisia etc and it ain't for the beaches.

 

 

Yep boomers again - they still have cash to burn but are dying out - I doubt they'll be replaced by the younger generations in as bigger numbers so Thailand's future is probably Indian, Chinese and Russian.

 

People knock Brits but Thailand was more prosperous AND fun for the natives when there were loads of us there.

They all seem to be pretty tight but the Chinese and Russians also seem particularly joyless - though I guess that's what decades of communism does to a nation.

 

So good luck Thailand, doesn't seem to be any planning so they'll probably need it.

 

[BigBruv]

10 minutes ago, kimamey said:

Surely this is a good thing as it will help tackle the overtourism mentioned in another thread on here. Unless they want less tourists but more Brits. And why wouldn't they.

 

 

 

They need/want big spenders - the problem is they're now left with 3rd worldy tourists as their main visitors now - not as spendthrift, sanook or soft as 'westerners' they've replaced.

 

Edited April 23 by BigBruv

[Scouse123]

5 hours ago, BigBruv said:

 

 

Yep boomers again - they still have cash to burn but are dying out - I doubt they'll be replaced by the younger generations in as bigger numbers so Thailand's future is probably Indian, Chinese and Russian.

 

People knock Brits but Thailand was more prosperous AND fun for the natives when there were loads of us there.

They all seem to be pretty tight but the Chinese and Russians also seem particularly joyless - though I guess that's what decades of communism does to a nation.

 

So good luck Thailand, doesn't seem to be any planning so they'll probably need it.

 

 

 

I was in Pattaya full-time from the early nineties till the first decade of the 2000s and the place was fun.

 

Very few Russians, Chinese but only organised flag-waving coach tours, not the massive influx there is now. There was an Arab quarter, but they kept themselves to themselves.

 

Big-spending Westerners, loads of guys working offshore with plenty of cash, well-heeled guys from all over the globe.

 

It was fun, it was exciting, and there weren't all the big mafia killings and extreme violence that seemed to have crept in back then, Pattaya was a big little town.

 

The fun has gone out of it and it no longer holds the ' mystique ' of bygone days. 

 

The internet explosion didn't help much.

[saintdomingo]

8 hours ago, BigBruv said:

 

 

Yep boomers again - they still have cash to burn but are dying out - I doubt they'll be replaced by the younger generations in as bigger numbers so Thailand's future is probably Indian, Chinese and Russian.

 

People knock Brits but Thailand was more prosperous AND fun for the natives when there were loads of us there.

They all seem to be pretty tight but the Chinese and Russians also seem particularly joyless - though I guess that's what decades of communism does to a nation.

 

So good luck Thailand, doesn't seem to be any planning so they'll probably need it.

 

Ÿou called it dead right bruv "joyless" is how to describe them. Perhaps it has sunk in that bringing the family means  restrictions.

[FruitPudding]

Thailand doesn't deserve tourists.

[FruitPudding]

Why would you come to Thailand when you could drink quality beer and good sized spirit measures in Europe for less money? The beer is pish here and you can't even taste the gin in your tonic.

 

The food is better in Europe, too. 150 baht for fried rice in cheap oil with a spoonful of sugar, no thanks. I wouldn't fly across the globe for that. 

 

The beaches are littered and the water is so dirty you can't swim in it. The Mediterranean wins, easy. 

 

Everything is a scam or a rip off from the moment you leave the airport,  starting with the "no meter" taxi. People in tourist areas constantly bothering you for your money.

 

Culture? Please. Europe is closer.

 

The only thing Thailand had going for it was the cheap toot, and now it ain't cheap anymore.

 

 

Edited April 24 by FruitPudding

[Expat68]

4 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

Why would you come to Thailand when you could drink quality beer and good sized spirit measures in Europe for less money?

 

The beer is pish here and you can't even taste the gin in your tonic.

 

The food is better in Europe, too. 150 baht for fried rice in cheap oil with a spoonful of sugar, no thanks. I wouldn't fly across the globe for that. 

 

The beaches are littered and the water is so dirty you can't swim in it.

 

Everything is a scam or a rip off from the moment you leave the airport,  starting with the "no meter" taxi.

 

People in tourist areas constantly bothering you for your money.

 

Culture? Please. Europe is closer.

 

The only thing Thailand had going for it was the cheap toot, and now it ain't cheap anymore.

 

 

The Guinness is just as good and cheaper. 150baht for fried rice!! They have seen you coming. If I want to be a cheap Charlie I can eat for 50 baht with  toppings. Western food if you know where to go 170-250 baht, every bit has good as you can get back in blighty 

[FruitPudding]

8 minutes ago, Expat68 said:

The Guinness is just as good and cheaper. 150baht for fried rice!! They have seen you coming. If I want to be a cheap Charlie I can eat for 50 baht with  toppings. Western food if you know where to go 170-250 baht, every bit has good as you can get back in blighty 

 

Where are you drinking your Guinness? It ain't cheaper than where I come from and I ain't seen them pouring a decent pint here either.

 

I eat like a local, too, but we are talking about tourists here. They are paying a lot more to eat Thai food in the tourist areas. 

 

Tourists ain't coming to Thailand for the fish n chips. We aren't talking expat life here.

[BritManToo]

26 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

Why would you come to Thailand when you could drink quality beer and good sized spirit measures in Europe for less money? The beer is pish here and you can't even taste the gin in your tonic.

 

The food is better in Europe, too. 150 baht for fried rice in cheap oil with a spoonful of sugar, no thanks. I wouldn't fly across the globe for that. 

 

The beaches are littered and the water is so dirty you can't swim in it. The Mediterranean wins, easy. 

 

Everything is a scam or a rip off from the moment you leave the airport,  starting with the "no meter" taxi. People in tourist areas constantly bothering you for your money.

 

Culture? Please. Europe is closer.

 

The only thing Thailand had going for it was the cheap toot, and now it ain't cheap anymore.

Completely accurate at every point!

[Expat68]

13 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Where are you drinking your Guinness? It ain't cheaper than where I come from and I ain't seen them pouring a decent pint here either.

 

I eat like a local, too, but we are talking about tourists here. They are paying a lot more to eat Thai food in the tourist areas. 

 

Tourists ain't coming to Thailand for the fish n chips. We aren't talking expat life here.

Drinking my Guinness in Issaan, more fool you if you choose to live your life in Tourist cities/towns

[FruitPudding]

13 minutes ago, Expat68 said:

Drinking my Guinness in Issaan, more fool you if you choose to live your life in Tourist cities/towns

 

I lived in Isaan with the degenerates for many many years. Still have a house there. 

 

It's okay for holidays or if you are retired maybe, but you can't have a serious life there. 

 

The rice fields look nice but it's hard to avoid the pitfalls of living in a low socioeconomic area. The women are mostly gambling addicts and the men are mostly drunks. Huge number of yaba addicts, teen gangs, scoundrels, misfits, and delinquents.

 

I suppose you think it won't negatively affect you, until it does.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

 

I lived in Isaan with the degenerates for many many years. Still have a house there. 

 

It's okay for holidays or if you are retired maybe, but you can't have a serious life there. 

 

The rice fields look nice but it's hard to avoid the pitfalls of living in a low socioeconomic area. The women are mostly gambling addicts and the men are mostly drunks. Huge number of yaba addicts, teen gangs, scoundrels, misfits, and delinquents.

 

I suppose you think it won't negatively affect you, until it does.

Again completely accurate at every point. You're on a roll FP!

[Expat68]

4 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

 

I lived in Isaan with the degenerates for many many years. Still have a house there. 

 

It's okay for holidays or if you are retired maybe, but you can't have a serious life there. 

 

The rice fields look nice but it's hard to avoid the pitfalls of living in a low socioeconomic area. The women are mostly gambling addicts and the men are mostly drunks. Huge number of yaba addicts, teen gangs, scoundrels, misfits, and delinquents.

 

I suppose you think it won't negatively affect you, until it does.

I will keep my location quiet but none of that where I live

[whiteman]

Went to the Hilton in Phattya yesterday for my 77 th birthday for lunch for 4 my shout.  The place was 20% full which made it a pleasant lunch hour for us not good for the hotel.

 

Bill came to 3200 Bhat = 3 bottles of water and a dry martin for me.  They gave me a nice small birthday cake free which we all eat while seated.

 

Maybe the price puts most off and as I looked out of the window to the distance only see 4 sea parachutes while in the old days they would have been even in low season 25 flying

[Misty]

13 hours ago, MicroB said:

The most recent data is to 2022:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/datasets/ukresidentsvisitsabroad

 

If you consider Britons traveling to APAC as a market (ie. the choice isn't between Thailand and Benidorm this year), then before the pandemic, about 8-9% of Britons going on holiday/visiting Asia were picking Thailand. In 2021, that dipped to 3%, and it looks like India benefited from that (though India travel will be a mix of holidays, a lot of family visits and business reconnections) and in 2022, it went back up to 8%. If I strip out India and Pakistan, then in 2022, Thailand attracted 18% of British visitors to APAC, compared to 13-15% prepandemic. Non-HK China has collapsed; 16% before pandemic and 3% in 2022; 14% in 2021. Other Asia (Cambodia, Indonesia, Vietnam etc) went from 34% to 48-51%, and that seems to be at the expense of China, and, to a lesser degree, Japan and Hong Kong.

 

Countries in this selection are

 

Hong Kong (China)

Other China

India

Japan

Pakistan

Sri Lanka

Thailand

Other Asia

Australia

New Zealand

 

 

But if I consider a wider range of destinations, then a slight different story. Comparing % share in 2022 to 2019, only the following countries have increased their share. The dominating feature, except for Brazil, is the Package Holiday. Destinations more associated with more independant travel, which is basically Asia, have lost out. I suspect there is a combination of cost; the destinations closer to the UK will be cheaper, but also, post COVID, security, ie having the support of a Tui, Virgin etc to not strand you at an airport etc.. Its more complex that that, because you also have to get into spend, nights stayed etc, which is all in that data source.

 

One take away is that Thailand has to work hard to get the Tour Operators to fill up flights, charters. Something that might be distorting is hotel vacancies; has Thailand become a place where there are more people living out of a Hotel room?

 

The biggest losers, in terms of the holiday share, are USA, Cyprus, France, Ireland, China, Japan, and Other Asia (Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia etc) Thailand is down 0.2%, but Sri Lanka, which has more package tours, is down 0.1%. Interestingly, USA is down 0.8%, Canada is down 0.12%. I put that down to Florida (Disney) being too expensive. The £:$ during that period wasn't too bad.

 

Greece

Portugal

Spain

Turkey

Egypt

Morocco

Barbados

Jamaica

Other Caribbean

Brazil

Mexico

Fly/cruise (stay onboard)

 

Interesting to see the differences between the 2022 data of actual travel, and a 2024 poll that @BurmaBill posted in this thread previously. Florida could be too expensive, but at least in the poll NYC made it into the top 10 travel planned destinations:  https://business.yougov.com/content/48404-what-are-britons-top-travel-destinations-for-2024

 

 

 

[Goat]

On 4/23/2024 at 4:34 PM, spidermike007 said:

Are multiple dinners, cash gifts, and prizes really any different than an agreed to price?

You go out with normal girls and give them cash gifts? 

Are you insane?

For what?

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Goat said:

You go out with normal girls and give them cash gifts? 

Are you insane?

For what?

Oh, we learn from an Aussie hi-so bloke............😂

[Scouse123]

6 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

 

I lived in Isaan with the degenerates for many many years. Still have a house there. 

 

It's okay for holidays or if you are retired maybe, but you can't have a serious life there. 

 

The rice fields look nice but it's hard to avoid the pitfalls of living in a low socioeconomic area. The women are mostly gambling addicts and the men are mostly drunks. Huge number of yaba addicts, teen gangs, scoundrels, misfits, and delinquents.

 

I suppose you think it won't negatively affect you, until it does.

 

 

Nothing to add but my agreement.

[Scouse123]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Oh, we learn from an Aussie hi-so bloke............😂

 

 

That's why I won't go to Aussieland, people like him.

[Scouse123]

6 hours ago, Expat68 said:

I will keep my location quiet but none of that where I live

 

 

Middle of a field with a tinfoil hat on?