Swiss Expat Critically Injured in Scooter-Car Crash in Pattaya

[baansgr]

Basic government bike insurance will cover him for 20k baht, and many now upto 40k what's the problem...?

[connda]

First - Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Thailand or in left-lane countries, those on the "Left" in an unmarked intersection have the right-of-way.  (That looks like Lamphun where there are two roads paralleling a train track.  Both roads have stops lights that are turned off making all intersections "Unmarked Intersections."  Regardless of what the law is or who will be at fault - I personally drive with EXTREME CAUTION at those intersections and will give way when in doubt)
Corollary 1:  You don't need a drivers license to drive a scooter, so you don't need to know the rules of the road.
Corollary 2:  If you don't know or care about the rules of the road - you can get killed.

Second - regarding self-preservation on Thai roads:  when a 50kg electric scooter meets a 1200 kg car - the car always wins and the scooter driver ends up dead or injured.
Corollary 1: If driving on an electric scooter - drive with extreme caution and give way to larger vehicles.
Corollary 2:  I can't believe for a second that he didn't see the larger vehicle coming and instead chose to drive out in front of it - or - he didn't look which makes it his own fault.

Third - personally I would drive one of those three wheel electric death traps on the open road.  Are they even licensed to be driven on the road?  I've never seen one with a license on the front or back so my assumption is "No."
Corollary 1: The electric vehicle should be licensed.
Corollary 2: The people driving them should be road tested and licensed to drive one.

I don't have much sympathy.  My guess is that both drivers are at fault.  The scooter driver for not driving with extreme caution, and the car driver for being a typically aggressive Thai driver.

 

Edited April 24 by connda

[Dellboy218]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this and I make no comment about this accident or the people involved except that I wish them a speedy recovery.  The elephant in this particular room.  Did the trike have a number plate? Was it taxed and insured?  Did he have a license and was he wearing a helmet? As far as I can tell, anybody correct me if I am wrong, but basically if it's got pedals it's an assisted bicycle and no license etc required.  If it's not got pedals then it's classified as a motorbike.  This is a serious question that should be addressed by the Police as there are more and more on the road and there will he more unfortunate accidents and insurance companies will not be wanting to pay up if they don't have to.  Clarification is urgently required

[connda]

From our friendly ChatGPT:

"In Thailand, at an unmarked intersection, the vehicle approaching from the left generally has the right of way. However, it’s important to note that traffic rules can sometimes be interpreted differently by different drivers. Therefore, it’s always a good idea to approach intersections with caution and be prepared for unexpected maneuvers by other drivers. Stay safe! 😊"

 

So, Khun Swiss farang's left side of his body got smashed indicating he failed to yield the right-of-way to the vehicles on the left.  Which goes to show - people driving electric scooters on the road aren't licensed to drive on Thai road no less understand the extreme dangers of doing so. 
I'm just amazed because the accident is so avoidable.  Dude on the scooter should be yielding to anything bigger than him in the first place just out of self-preservation. 

Regarding "Justice?"  "Justice" in this case is that Khun Swiss farang is at fault for his own accident and should pay his own bill - i.e., failure to yield to oncoming traffic on the left at an unmarked intersection.

My guess is the the car's driver's insurance company will sort it out - well - if the car's driver is insured as of course, "This Is Thailand."  Needless to say that the unlicensed EV scooter isn't insured at all.

Edited April 24 by connda

[IvorBiggun2]

On 4/22/2024 at 12:28 PM, brianthainess said:

Not legally required on an electric disability trike, or license needed.

It is required on the highway and so is insurance. Por Ror Bor minimum.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

It is required on the highway and so is insurance. Por Ror Bor minimum.

If the vehicle is registered and has been issued a number plate. If not it is the same as a pram...........😂

[connda]

1 minute ago, quake said:

 

Yes, he is,

If you behave in the manor he did at that junction, it will be

only a matter of time,  before you go to the hospital. dead or alive.

you obviously have never used that junction, or you would keep your stupid mouth shut. Transman.

 

 

As I stated above:  "regarding self-preservation on Thai roads:  when a 50kg electric scooter meets a 1200 kg car - the car always wins and the scooter driver ends up dead or injured."

The same applies to people driving bicycles who believe they have "the same rights to the road as a car or truck."  Of course they do - until they get hit. 

[brianthainess]

8 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

It is required on the highway and so is insurance. Por Ror Bor minimum.

No Tax sticker required, they are not a registered vehicle/no engine number, no frame number, no license plate, therefore no Por Ror Bor. That only comes when you pay the road tax, and is not a separate item you can just purchase.

[Ralf001]

1 hour ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I'd say he was getting his medicinal Ganja or his antidepressants. 

 

Probably why he was driving so dangerously. 

 

 

Mighta been on a promise in the Booze Lounge.... Have seen same/simliar scoot parked out front often.

[connda]

20 minutes ago, connda said:

My guess is the the car's driver's insurance company will sort it out - well - if the car's driver is insured as of course, "This Is Thailand."  Needless to say that the unlicensed EV scooter isn't insured at all.

Another blurb from ChatGPT:

 

Both the insurance company and the car driver are going to have a field day with this in court.

[connda]

Mr. Andeks was rushed to the hospital with severe injuries and has been placed in the ICU. Mrs. Samrit revealed that she was disappointed with the alleged lack of support from the driver, who she claimed has not offered any words of consolation or financial assistance to her Swiss husband. The medical expenses have already reached over 200,000 baht, but the driver, whose name has been withheld in light of an ongoing investigation, allegedly tried to hand over the entire responsibility to the insurance company.

"but the driver, whose name has been withheld in light of an ongoing investigation, allegedly tried to hand over the entire responsibility to the insurance company." 
 

This is exactly why people have insurance!  So that should an accident occur, the entire affair - financially - is settled by the insurance company.  Insurance isn't freaking free.  However, given the circumstances - i.e., the scooter driver failed to yield right of way while driving an unlicensed electric scooter that really has no business being driven on the road, I can understand why this is taking time to sort out.  My guess is that the insurance company will refuse to pay.

[SAFETY FIRST]

45 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Mighta been on a promise in the Booze Lounge.... Have seen same/simliar scoot parked out front often.

The topic heading should read.....

 

foreigner on disability scooter goes for short time at local bar, wife calls so he hastily returns home, colliding with SUV he was trying to outrun at dangerous intersection

 

or 

 

 crazy daredevil foreigner speeds through intersection without looking or slowing, then tries to outrun SUV on invalid electric scooter at dangerous Pattaya intersection

 

or

 

an unstable, depressed foreigner looking for insurance payout collides with SUV at full speed on disability scooter.

 

 

 

Edited April 24 by SAFETY FIRST

[connda]

Just found the video.  Holy cr*p.  Like I said, we have a very simliar road in Lamphun with two roads paralleling a railroad track with roads crossing the track and the the two roads.  And my guess looking at the drivers on the other side is that none of the traffic lights are turned on (just like Lamphun).
I NEVER drive across the parallel roads without slowing and looking (and I'm in a car), and given traffic on those road are normally driving 40, 50, 60 kpm - I'll yield to anything oncoming unless they are slowing and signalling a turn - and then I still drive with caution.

The Swiss dude on his EV?  Hammers the accelerator and "D*mn the traffic - full speed ahead."  He didn't bother to slow down, to look both ways, to take any caution at all.

I hate to inform the dude's wife, but "justice" will be paying his own bills as well as the damage to the car he drove in front of.  This was totally avoidable.  All he had to do was slow down, look, and yield for his own safety. 

 

 

Edited April 24 by connda

[The Fugitive]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

Basic government bike insurance will cover him for 20k baht, and many now upto 40k what's the problem...?

He's in intensive care. 

[Mr Meeseeks]

2 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Yes, also the biggest vehicle always has right of way. 

 

 

Not when there's another vehicle already on the intersection. 

[transam]

Now you can really see what happened, scroll through until 3 minutes 50 seconds, up close... 😱

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

17 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

17 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, not at all, notice the question mark that means I was asking a question.   I hoped you could answer it for me...what is a "fixed white line"?

 

Apologies if I took your question within the context of your usual facetious and literal approach to these discussions.... 

 

>>   Fixed White Line / Solid White Line / Unbroken White Line / Thick Solid White Line

Thank you so much for confirming that "fixed white lines" as you describe them don't exist, they are all "fixed" to the road! 

Edited April 24 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

17 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Example at hand Volvo-XC90 is the only car in the UK in which no passenger has died.

Nonsense.  I've been a passenger (and the driver) in many vehicles in the UK from Bond Bugs to original Minis to Volvos to Silver Shadows and Corvettes (and many others in between) and, as far as I am aware, I have never died in any of them!  

Edited April 24 by Liverpool Lou

[SAFETY FIRST]

3 hours ago, transam said:

Now you can really see what happened, scroll through until 3 minutes 50 seconds, up close... 😱

 

 

 

3 hours ago, transam said:

Now you can really see what happened, scroll through until 3 minutes 50 seconds, up close... 😱

 

 

We've all seen the video.

 

I can clearly see some madman racing an SUV through a busy intersection, a crazy foreigner trying to outrun an SUV on his disability scooter.

 

Kamikaze, psycho guy on a death wish. 

 

Do you see something something different, what else is there to see?

 

Edited April 24 by SAFETY FIRST

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

18 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Example at hand Volvo-XC90 is the only car in the UK in which no passenger has died.

Nonsense.  I've been a passenger (and the driver) in many vehicles in the UK from Bond Bugs to original Minis to Volvos to Silver Shadows and Corvettes (and many others in between) and, as far as I am aware, I have never died in any of them!  

 

YAWN - drop it with the pedantic pseudo autistic idiocy... 

 

In the UK there has not been a fatality in a Volvo XC-90 which is a testament to its safety.....   

 

[richard_smith237]

47 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

 

We've all seen the video.

 

I can clearly see some madman racing an SUV through a busy intersection, a crazy foreigner trying to outrun an SUV on his disability scooter.

 

Kamikaze, psycho guy on a death wish. 

 

Do you see something something different, what else is there to see?

 

 

I see the Swiss-Guy on the Mobility-Trike already in the middle of the junction before the SUV reaches the junction and continues to 'blast' through it without a care in the world... 

 

The SUV would have hit anything in that junction, be it a truck, a car, a motorcycle, a cyclist - the SUV driver, driving dangerously without any regard for the safety of anyone else. 

 

The Mobility-Trike rider, also riding without consideration for his own safety, but he was already well across the junction (in the middle of it) before the SUV entered the junction and when hit.

 

 

Both were careless - the Mobility-Trike rider careless for his own safety, the SUV driver careless of anyone elses.

[metisdead]

Posts with derogatory name calling comments contravening our Community Standards have been removed:

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[transam]

1 hour ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

 

We've all seen the video.

 

I can clearly see some madman racing an SUV through a busy intersection, a crazy foreigner trying to outrun an SUV on his disability scooter.

 

Kamikaze, psycho guy on a death wish. 

 

Do you see something something different, what else is there to see?

 

Yes, the mobility bike was obscured from the tool in the SUV as he sped through on the inside of the gray car............🤗

 

You can stand down now...........

[SAFETY FIRST]

12 minutes ago, transam said:

Yes, the mobility bike was obscured from the tool in the SUV as he sped through on the inside of the gray car............🤗

 

You can stand down now...........

We both know how dangerous Thailand roads are, we don't need to make our journeys more dangerous by being foolish in our driving habits. 

 

I know you spend a lot of time on the road from the your comments I've read over the years.

I hope your driving habits are not so foolish.... I'm sure they aren't, you seem like a decent bloke. 

 

Let's hope the Swiss guy survives and he has learnt a lesson. 

 

 

[connda]

Want to know why there are so many farang road deaths here in Thailand?

Just read the comments (or listen to them) by people who "clearly" don't have a minimal clue as to the laws of right-of-way at uncontrolled intersections as well as all of the excuses for the consequences of heedless driving.  If you are driving a bicycle, an EV scooter, a motorcycle, car, truck, or simply walking - if you are on a Thai road your first responsibility is to "clearly" be aware of your surroundings and to navigate with caution and in a defensive manner.  If you are driving an EV scooter or any other vehicle and get hit by another vehicle - trust me - it doesn't matter who was at fault if a modicum of caution and defensive driving could have avoided the accident in the first place.  And after looking at the video this accident was "clearly" avoidable. The EV driver had the most to lose (like his life) so had I been in his situation (and I have before) I would have slowed down before the intersection (like I always do at intersections without working traffic lights or Stop-Signs, i.e., uncontrolled intersections), looked both ways (but haa haa haa, look both ways?  - traffic is only coming from the left because it's one-way haa haa haa) like I said, "looked both ways", and then only crossed if it was "clearly" safe to do so without getting in an accident.

Who had the most to lose by "being first" to enter the uncontrolled intersection?
The SUV driver?  Nope.  Uninjured.
The EV driver?  Sucks to be in ICU. 

Hopefully AN/Thaiger will keep on top of this event come what may - I really would like to know how the BIB, Thai court system, and the insurance company settle this.

Edited April 24 by connda

[transam]

1 minute ago, connda said:

Want to know why there are so many farang road deaths here in Thailand?

Just read the comments (or listen to them) by people who "clearly" don't have a minimal clue as to the laws of right-of-way at intersections as well as all of the excuses for the consequences of heedless driving.  If you are driving an bicycle, EV scooter, motorcycle, car, truck, or simply walking - if you are on a Thai road your first responsibility is to "clearly" be aware of your surroundings and to navigate with caution and in a defensive manner.  If you are driving an EV scooter and get hit by a car - trust me - it doesn't matter who was at fault if a modicum of caution and defensive driving could have avoided the accident in the first place. 

Hopefully AN/Thaiger will keep on top of this event come what may - I really would like to know how the BIB, Thai court system, and the insurance company settle this.

The white SUV was clearly at fault. The video shows it was. If it were a woman with a pram crossing the road, the same outcome. SUV not slowing down for the junction, no caution for the junction, the driver should have known better....🤔

[connda]

53 minutes ago, transam said:

The white SUV was clearly at fault. The video shows it was. If it were a woman with a pram crossing the road, the same outcome. SUV not slowing down for the junction, no caution for the junction, the driver should have known better....🤔

Let me reiterate:
First:
Who had the most to lose by "being first" to enter the uncontrolled intersection?
The SUV driver?  Nope.  Uninjured.
The EV driver?  Sucks to be in ICU. 

Second:

Traffic coming from the left in uncontrolled intersections in Thailand have the right-of-way.  Ignorance of driving laws is not bliss.  It gets you killed.

Third:
The accident was avoidable had the most vulnerable driver (Khun EV in ICU) slowed, looked, and attempted to evade.  I was driving in Chiang Mai today can had a number of "near misses" including some ***-wipe who almost ran my wife over in a zebra-crossing when he ran the red-light.  The Mrs is aware of her surroundings and would rather not be "in ICU even though it was the other guys fault."  Nope.  The Mrs stopped because she saw it coming.  Unlike Khun EV in ICU.  And those other "near-misses?"  No my fault.  All from people pulling out in front of me from side streets.  Do I care about "fault?"  No.  I braked and avoided collisions.  How the hell do you people who are so concerned about who is at fault stay out of accidents here in Thailand?

Fourth:
When you're in ICU or being cremated, "fault" will be determined by the Thai justice system.  But "fault" doesn't do you a tinker's-damn after you've been T-boned by a car and they are spreading your ashes in some river - or - you're languishing the rest of your life as a paraplegic. It may get your family some compensation - maybe.  Or not.  Perhaps the court will see Khun EV in ICU as a "rich farang" and therefore the responsible party, especially considering he entered an uncontrolled intersection and did not slow, look, or yield to traffic on the left.  It does happen.

And again - I'd like to see AN/Thaiger stay on top of this story so that everyone has a clear understanding of the consequences of a situation like this - one that should be avoided at all costs by all parties.  But I'd really like to know how the BIB and the Thai courts rule on this one.  It would be a good object lesson for everyone here - me included.
 

Edited April 24 by connda

[JensenZ]

On 4/22/2024 at 11:51 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

What are the traffic rules on that intersection? 

It's an uncontrolled intersection, so the rule here is to proceed slowly and keep your eyes open for oncoming vehicles. It's a courtesy system which the foreigner does not understand. It's also good to proceed more carefully if you're on a bike and heed to bigger vehicles. I would say the foreigner thought that he had absolute right of way.

 

Also, offering "sorry" to the damaged party is the wrong thing to do. Insurance policies normally stipulate in the fine print never to admit liability in any accident. If they find out you did, they can refuse your claim. It was right for the car driver to leave it up to the insurance company to sort it out.

[Ralf001]

9 hours ago, connda said:

First - Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Thailand or in left-lane countries, those on the "Left" in an unmarked intersection have the right-of-way.  (That looks like Lamphun where there are two roads paralleling a train track.  Both roads have stops lights that are turned off making all intersections "Unmarked Intersections."  Regardless of what the law is or who will be at fault - I personally drive with EXTREME CAUTION at those intersections and will give way when in doubt)
Corollary 1:  You don't need a drivers license to drive a scooter, so you don't need to know the rules of the road.
Corollary 2:  If you don't know or care about the rules of the road - you can get killed.

Second - regarding self-preservation on Thai roads:  when a 50kg electric scooter meets a 1200 kg car - the car always wins and the scooter driver ends up dead or injured.
Corollary 1: If driving on an electric scooter - drive with extreme caution and give way to larger vehicles.
Corollary 2:  I can't believe for a second that he didn't see the larger vehicle coming and instead chose to drive out in front of it - or - he didn't look which makes it his own fault.

Third - personally I would drive one of those three wheel electric death traps on the open road.  Are they even licensed to be driven on the road?  I've never seen one with a license on the front or back so my assumption is "No."
Corollary 1: The electric vehicle should be licensed.
Corollary 2: The people driving them should be road tested and licensed to drive one.

I don't have much sympathy.  My guess is that both drivers are at fault.  The scooter driver for not driving with extreme caution, and the car driver for being a typically aggressive Thai driver.

 

 

Great post, nailed it.

[Ralf001]

5 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

 

 

Also, offering "sorry" to the damaged party is the wrong thing to do. Insurance policies normally stipulate in the fine print never to admit liability in any accident. If they find out you did, they can refuse your claim. It was right for the car driver to leave it up to the insurance company to sort it out.

 

And do we know what decision the insurance made ?