Had a small accident

herfiehandbag · May 16

On 5/13/2024 at 8:49 PM, treetops said:

Not how I read it.

My version:

Moto taxi stops to allow passenger to alight.

While getting off passenger drops a bag into the road which unseats a passing motorcyclist who can't avoid it.

In which case it would seem that the following motorcycle was traveling 1) too fast, and 2) dangerously close to the poster.

Sadly it is unlikely that the police will take that into consideration.

Probably worth engaging a lawyer - otherwise all sorts of claims will be made.

JoeyMac · May 16

8 hours ago, steven100 said:

oh dear ' and of coarse it is your fault as you caused the accident to the guy on the other bike.

ambulance, hospital, every thai rushing to help the thai ...

this could cost a packet .... just saying ......

Define ... a packet ?

It was purely an accident. Are you saying i'm in trouble with the law for dropping a bag on the floor whilst getting of a motorbike taxi ?

richard_smith237 · May 16

11 hours ago, JoeyMac said:

Looks like i am going to be blamed here.

Spoke with tourist police who said because i dropped a bag as i was dismounting my bike, Thai law says it will be my fault.

The Motorbike taxi did not drop me of a pavement, instead kind of parked with room on my left hand side (enough room for a motorbike to squeeze into). As he stopped i got off towards the pavement side (which was my left), and dropped the bag. The bike that had the accident tried to drive fast inbetween this space, on my left hand side, and went over my bag.

But i am going to be blamed. That is a given.

The Moto-Taxi stopped to let you off at the left side of the road... but leaving a gap... and another bike tried to 'under-take'...

IMO - 100% not your fault.

Refuse to accept any blame... I don't see how you can be at fault for getting of a motor-cycle (to the left).

It is also against the law to 'undertake' (pass to the left), so even though the moto-taxi you were alighting had stopped, this is still 'undertaking'. The following motorcycle should have passed to the right.

The BiB know this... and are just trying to take the path that most suits their agenda... they are not following the law (IMO).

The following (injured) rider...

1) Undertaking

2) Riding dangerously (too close to avoid the bag)

3) Riding dangerous (too fast to stop)

steven100 · May 16

On 5/14/2024 at 5:56 PM, FritsSikkink said:

He didn't fall of the bike, he dropped his bags while getting off the bike.

This is correct ... thank you. He dropped his shopping while dismounting from the taxi motorbike.

And as he was dismounting he dropped his shopping bag on the road as another bike was pulling in to park and this bike ran over his shopping bag which caused the rider to dislodge ( fall off ) his bike while coming in to park at speed.

richard_smith237 · May 16

9 minutes ago, JoeyMac said:

Define ... a packet ?

It was purely an accident. Are you saying i'm in trouble with the law for dropping a bag on the floor whilst getting of a motorbike taxi ?

It seems like there could be some collusion to get some form of compensation from you...

... i.e. Pay for the damages and medical bills for the Injured party.

As the incident was 100% his own fault (IMO)... it is not your responsibility to cover his damages.

You dropped the bag... but that is almost moot - the accident was caused by the following riders actions (undertaking / too fast / too close).... he could have hit you as you got off the moto-taxi.

steven100 · May 16

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The Moto-Taxi stopped to let you off at the left side of the road... but leaving a gap... and another bike tried to 'under-take'...

IMO - 100% not your fault.

Refuse to accept any blame... I don't see how you can be at fault for getting of a motor-cycle (to the left).

It is also against the law to 'undertake' (pass to the left), so even though the moto-taxi you were alighting had stopped, this is still 'undertaking'. The following motorcycle should have passed to the right.

The BiB know this... and are just trying to take the path that most suits their agenda... they are not following the law (IMO).

The following (injured) rider...

1) Undertaking

2) Riding dangerously (too close to avoid the bag)

3) Riding dangerous (too fast to stop)

TIT .... he will most certainly be blamed as it was his fault in dropping the bag on the road.

None of what you said above will come into play here ....

JoeyMac · May 16

I called the tourist police.

There conclusion was because i dropped a bag, the accident will be my fault.

What type of compensation are we talking about here ? Is it worth looking into my travel insurance policy to see if i am covered here for anything ? I just have generic travel insurance.

richard_smith237 · May 16

Just now, steven100 said:

TIT .... he will most certainly be blamed as it was his fault in dropping the bag on the road.

None of what you said above will come into play here ....

In the Ops shoes, I'd stand firm and not accept anything.

Op was getting off a moto-taxi to the left.... It appears as though another rider, was dangerously close and passing on the left which is illegal.

IMO - the BiB know the Op might have money (as he's a foreigner) so they beleive this is the path of least resistance and they may get to earn something from the compensation.

9 minutes ago, steven100 said:

And as he was dismounting he dropped his shopping bag on the road as another bike was pulling in to park and this bike ran over his shopping bag which caused the rider to dislodge ( fall off ) his bike while coming in to park at speed.

Where did you get this from ? - that the other bike was undertaking because he was 'coming into park' at speed...

richard_smith237 · May 16

2 minutes ago, JoeyMac said:

I called the tourist police.

There conclusion was because i dropped a bag, the accident will be my fault.

What type of compensation are we talking about here ?

Thats the conclusion from one single aspect of the incident...

... The lazy BiB have 'picked the low hanging fruit' so to speak.... they have missed the point that the motorcycle should never have been under-taking the stopped moto-taxi and that he was riding too close (dangerously).

Up to you if you want to pay compensation - but I'd be very stubborn in the same situation.

Instead of dropping your bag, if you had slipped and fell, the following motorcyclist would have hit you.

Based on your description the following motorcyclist was riding dangerously and illegally.

If you have a Thai friend with any position of respect or authority - now is the time to ask for their assistance.

steven100 · May 16

18 minutes ago, JoeyMac said:

Define ... a packet ?

It was purely an accident. Are you saying i'm in trouble with the law for dropping a bag on the floor whilst getting of a motorbike taxi ?

The problem is you need a Thai friend to go with you .... when you have someone else with you they ( the Thais ) won't try to pull a fast one, and communication is much clearer.

If you don't have anyone to go with you then find someone .... pay them a couple of hundred baht to be your translator or helper.

Go to the station ...... don't admit anything, don't sign anything, see what the cops have to say.

Put it across that the other guy was riding very fast and very close .... otherwise he could have veered around the bag on the road.

See what the cops say .... if it can be settled for a few thousand then that's good for you ....

but .... not sure .... as the other side will want money.

JoeyMac · May 16

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

In the Ops shoes, I'd stand firm and not accept anything.

Op was getting off a moto-taxi to the left.... It appears as though another rider, was dangerously close and passing on the left which is illegal.

IMO - the BiB know the Op might have money (as he's a foreigner) so they beleive this is the path of least resistance and they may get to earn something from the compensation.

Where did you get this from ? - that the other bike was undertaking because he was 'coming into park' at speed...

The tourist police lady was pretty decent. She said if i didn't drop my shopping bag on the ground he wouldn't have had the accident. It's irrelevant apparently if he was over taking on the underside, or that the motorbike taxi stopped and dropped me of in the middle of the road.

Everything was well, till a few others came running and got involved and got him to sit down, got an ambulance (which turned up in record time).

JoeyMac · May 16

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Thats the conclusion from one single aspect of the incident...

... The have 'picked the low hanging fruit' so to speak.... they have missed the point that the motorcycle should never have been under-taking the stopped moto-taxi and that he was riding too close (dangerously).

So if i am to fight this, then what happens ? I am not looking for a protracted court case here for something to go wrong.

JoeyMac · May 16

1 minute ago, steven100 said:

The problem is you need a Thai friend to go with you .... when you have someone else with you they ( the Thais ) won't try to pull a fast one, and communication is much clearer.

If you don't have anyone to go with you then find someone .... pay them a couple of hundred baht to be your translator or helper.

Go to the station ...... don't admit anything, don't sign anything, see what the cops have to say.

Put it across that the other guy was riding very fast and very close .... otherwise he could have veered around the bag on the road.

See what the cops say .... if it can be settled for a few thousand then that's good for you ....

but .... not sure .... as the other side will want money.

If the cost is enormous, and i refuse to pay then what happens ?

I have already signed a brief statement to say i dropped my bags on the floor, and the other rider fell.

richard_smith237 · May 16

Just now, JoeyMac said:

The tourist police lady was pretty decent. She said if i didn't drop my shopping bag on the ground he wouldn't have had the accident. It's irrelevant apparently if he was over taking on the underside, or that the motorbike taxi stopped and dropped me of in the middle of the road.

Everything was well, till a few others came running and got involved and got him to sit down, got an ambulance (which turned up in record time).

Thats almost the same as saying... If you weren't there you wouldn't have had the accident.

Its not irrelevant if the passing bike was undertaking - its illegal, its in the Road Traffic Act... you have permitted the police to interpret the laws and utilise them as they see fit... the Tourist Police lady may have been calm and polite, but she wasn't fair in proportioning blame to you....

The following motorcyclist is also complicit - if he wasn't riding illegally and passing to the left, the accident wouldn't have happend - and thats the key point you should be using.

steven100 · May 16

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

In the Ops shoes, I'd stand firm and not accept anything.

Op was getting off a moto-taxi to the left.... It appears as though another rider, was dangerously close and passing on the left which is illegal.

IMO - the BiB know the Op might have money (as he's a foreigner) so they beleive this is the path of least resistance and they may get to earn something from the compensation.

Where did you get this from ? - that the other bike was undertaking because he was 'coming into park' at speed...

The Motorbike taxi did not drop me of a pavement, instead kind of parked with room on my left hand side (enough room for a motorbike to squeeze into). As he stopped i got off towards the pavement side (which was my left), and dropped the bag. The bike that had the accident tried to drive fast inbetween this space, on my left hand side, and went over my bag.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok , so he was getting off the bike and the other bike came through at speed on the inside ...

richard_smith237 · May 16

3 minutes ago, JoeyMac said:

So if i am to fight this, then what happens ? I am not looking for a protracted court case here for something to go wrong.

Nope... you can push it as far as you want... it'll never go to court - the BiB are just trying it on.

If however... it goes as far as you are willing to push it... you can fall back to where you are now (square one).

A while ago now... I was in an accident whereby I was turning right and a following van tried to overtake me.

The BiB initially blamed me, as they said I was the one making the turn...

I argued the van was speeding, overtaking into an oncoming bus lane, and had cut the corner of the previous junction (its complex to explain)... Ultimately, I was polite, but stubborn, and said I was quite happy to see this escalate to higher levels...

... the BiB changed their mind... the accident was deemed 50/50....

(the reason I didn't want to accept fault was that the other part was faking injury and I wanted to ensure I avoided any compensation claims).

richard_smith237 · May 16

4 minutes ago, steven100 said:

The Motorbike taxi did not drop me of a pavement, instead kind of parked with room on my left hand side (enough room for a motorbike to squeeze into). As he stopped i got off towards the pavement side (which was my left), and dropped the bag. The bike that had the accident tried to drive fast inbetween this space, on my left hand side, and went over my bag.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok , so he was getting off the bike and the other bike came through at speed on the inside ...

Undertaking - illegal.

JimTripper · May 16

15 minutes ago, JoeyMac said:

If the cost is enormous, and i refuse to pay then what happens ?

I have already signed a brief statement to say i dropped my bags on the floor, and the other rider fell.

I think only a court can force a payment, not the police. If you don't pay it goes to court if the other party pursues it.

They may hold your passport and keep you from leaving if a court case is filed.

richard_smith237 · May 16

7 minutes ago, JoeyMac said:

If the cost is enormous, and i refuse to pay then what happens ?

I have already signed a brief statement to say i dropped my bags on the floor, and the other rider fell.

Then you were silly to sign... you are kind of shafted now.

In that statement, they should have also stated that the other party was travelling at speed, too close and undertaking.

Also riding illegally without a helmet... was he checked for DUI ?... was his bike taxed ? did he have a license ? etc etc.

Lots of questions to ask before agreeing to any settlement.

The Police are taking the path of least resistance, and it unfortunately appears that this is you.

Etaoin Shrdlu · May 16

Even basic travel insurance policies often provide third party liability coverage. Third party liability insurance usually also covers defense costs. There are limitations with respect to liability arising out of the use of motor vehicles, but you weren't operating a motor vehicle so it is worth contacting your insurance company and asking for assistance.

If you PM me with a copy of your travel policy, I can give you an idea as to whether the policy may respond.

steven100 · May 16

As I mentioned JoeyMac,

The problem is you need a Thai friend to go with you .... when you have someone else with you they ( the Thais ) won't try to pull a fast one, and communication is much clearer.

If you don't have anyone to go with you then find someone .... pay them a couple of hundred baht to be your translator or helper.

This way your translator will tell them straight that you don't feel you are 100% the blame as the other guy was going too fast and too close.

And tell them you feel the other rider is also to blame, and if they're not happy with your 50/50 blame then your ok to take it further and they can discuss it with your lawyer ( just say )

If you can't find someone to go with you you'll have no option but to go alone ...

but the speed and too close is the one you push for ...

then it may come down to a 50/50 blame ...

richard_smith237 · May 16

Just now, steven100 said:

As I mentioned JoeyMac,

The problem is you need a Thai friend to go with you .... when you have someone else with you they ( the Thais ) won't try to pull a fast one, and communication is much clearer.

If you don't have anyone to go with you then find someone .... pay them a couple of hundred baht to be your translator or helper.

This way your translator will tell me straight that you don't feel you are 100% the blame as the other guy was going too fast and too close.

If you can't find someone to go with you you'll have no option but to go alone ...

but the speed and too close is the one you push for ...

then it may come down to a 50/50 blame ...

All good points....

steven100 · May 16

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Then you were silly to sign... you are kind of shafted now.

In that statement, they should have also stated that the other party was travelling at speed, too close and undertaking.

Also riding illegally without a helmet... was he checked for DUI ?... was his bike taxed ? did he have a license ? etc etc.

Lots of questions to ask before agreeing to any settlement.

The Police are taking the path of least resistance, and it unfortunately appears that this is you.

yes ... I tend to agree with this.

he shouldn't have signed anything without adding or changing to reflect the other guy going too fast and too close.

not sure they care about the DUI, no helmet or bike license. .....

and this is why he should have had a Thai friend / helper with him ..

FritsSikkink · May 16

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

It seems like there could be some collusion to get some form of compensation from you...

... i.e. Pay for the damages and medical bills for the Injured party.

As the incident was 100% his own fault (IMO)... it is not your responsibility to cover his damages.

You dropped the bag... but that is almost moot - the accident was caused by the following riders actions (undertaking / too fast / too close).... he could have hit you as you got off the moto-taxi.

What a load of crock.

JimTripper · May 16

7 hours ago, steven100 said:

yes ... I tend to agree with this.

he shouldn't have signed anything without adding or changing to reflect the other guy going too fast and too close.

not sure they care about the DUI, no helmet or bike license. .....

and this is why he should have had a Thai friend / helper with him ..

a thai friend is not a 100% solution to everything

mstevens · May 16

26 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

a thai friend is not a 100% solution to everything

That's true, but it can be very helpful in situations like this.

steven100 · May 17

13 hours ago, JoeyMac said:

If the cost is enormous, and i refuse to pay then what happens ?

I have already signed a brief statement to say i dropped my bags on the floor, and the other rider fell.

any update JoeyMac .... ?

JoeyMac · May 17

15 hours ago, steven100 said:

any update JoeyMac .... ?

Not yet. I am going to be called to go to see the police in a few weeks. Which is odd as i am going back home end of the month. But i will just extend if it happens.

What type of compensation are we talking about? Anyone know?

This is quite a perilous situation to be in isn't ... you have an accident and things can go very wrong.

JimTripper · May 17

16 minutes ago, JoeyMac said:

Not yet. I am going to be called to go to see the police in a few weeks. Which is odd as i am going back home end of the month. But i will just extend if it happens.

What type of compensation are we talking about? Anyone know?

This is quite a perilous situation to be in isn't ... you have an accident and things can go very wrong.

Pffft...If it were me I would just leave the country as planned. Nobody cares.

Sheryl · May 17

On 5/13/2024 at 7:39 PM, eisfeld said:

Not worth it to get a lawyer at this stage. Don't sign papers that you don't understand. It would be a good idea to take a Thai that you trust so they can help with understanding the situation fully and also not looking like a lone guy that can easily be fleeced.

This.

The fact that you have been asked to come to the police station means the other party is seeking damages. (And the police, their cut of same, which will raise the stakes).

Basically what happens in these cases is that the police "facilitate" a negotiated cash settlement.

Not at all uncommon, when a foreigner is involved, to seek ridiculously large amounts and also to lie about the nature of injuries and other damages. Insist on seeing proof of both, and keep in mind that mandatory 3rd party insurance of the motorcyclist will have paid up to 30,000 baht of the medical costs.

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