Legal Strategies to Reduce Thai Tax

[KhunHeineken]

7 hours ago, Lorry said:

In this case,  see gift tax

 

He doesn't have to, I didn't say that

 

I answered before,  simple answer

 

 

You stick to the formal set-up, whose account is it? etc

What you don't want to understand - or maybe pretend not to understand - is that the formalities don't matter in the end. 

Not whose bank account is it, but whose money is it? Who controls the account?  Who is the beneficial owner?

 

Reminds me of the set-up of the people buying land through nominees.  It worked for a while, but in the end you run the risk that only economic really counts,  not the set-up on paper. 

 

I won't answer more because I think you pretend not to understand. 

 

I suspected money deposited into a joint bank account held by a resident and non resident would be deemed a gift from the non resident to the resident.  

 

The next logical step would be just to use the non resident's bank account.  You called them "mule accounts."  The use of a mule account probably breaches the bank's T's & C's, and probably could be viewed as tax evasion, thus a crime.  That said, I can see many going down that route, but that's for another thread. 

 

I'm currently looking into a multi-currency travel visa card, which includes THB, and can be topped up online up to $50,000AUD. 

 

Here's a couple of examples.  (for Australians)  WISE offer a similar product. 

 

https://auspost.com.au/money-insurance/organise-travel-money/travel-platinum-mastercard

 

https://www.commbank.com.au/travel/travel-money-card.html?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlp_A-fLVhgMVl9YWBR37xwqiEAAYAyAAEgLLPPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

Of course, I could use my ordinary Australian bank account ATM visa / master card, but these may offer a better conversion rate, as I would be withdrawing THB inside Thailand.   Also, you can load the card online when there is a good exchange rate for AUD to THB.  

 

This card would not be a "mule account."  It would be in my name.  Since I load the card from an Australian bank account, the funds are not remitted to Thailand, just withdrawn in Thailand, like a tourist. 

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

It's brilliant, surely the revenue department has not thought of this...

At this stage, we have no idea what the revenue department have, or have not thought of, if they have actually thought out any of this messy policy, but you are of the opinion they have thought of everything. 

[Yellowtail]

20 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

At this stage, we have no idea what the revenue department have, or have not thought of, if they have actually thought out any of this messy policy, but you are of the opinion they have thought of everything. 

I doubt they have thought of everything, but after dealing with them for twenty years, I know they are not stupid, and they are nothing if not relentless. 

[jwest10]

On 6/11/2024 at 2:26 PM, KhunHeineken said:

They want more. 

And all over the World too ut never go for the filthy rich as it is too difficult for them but get bribes etc in return

[Mike Teavee]

20 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

The next logical step would be just to use the non resident's bank account.  You called them "mule accounts."  The use of a mule account probably breaches the bank's T's & C's, and probably could be viewed as tax evasion, thus a crime.

Interesting, I got the GF to open a Krungsri account in her name but I have the App on my phone so effectively have control of the account. 
 

The main reason I opened the account was so I could send her money up to the point where she might need to pay tax (210K) & from that account she can pay her 1/2 of the Utility & Grocery Bills (approx 35K pm so 17.5K is her share which works out at exactly 210K pa 😊).

 

A side reason why I opened the account was so I could put 1Million THB in there (from money I already have in Thailand) that she would have no problems accessing should anything happen to me. 
 

I hadn’t considered that I might be breaking any rules/laws, the account is genuinely hers & is (sort of) used by her to pay her share of the bills.
 

[Mike Lister]

12 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Interesting, I got the GF to open a Krungsri account in her name but I have the App on my phone so effectively have control of the account. 
 

The main reason I opened the account was so I could send her money up to the point where she might need to pay tax (210K) & from that account she can pay her 1/2 of the Utility & Grocery Bills (approx 35K pm so 17.5K is her share which works out at exactly 210K pa 😊).

 

A side reason why I opened the account was so I could put 1Million THB in there (from money I already have in Thailand) that she would have no problems accessing should anything happen to me. 
 

I hadn’t considered that I might be breaking any rules/laws, the account is genuinely hers & is (sort of) used by her to pay her share of the bills.
 

Given that know her well and she is your g/f, it would be difficult to call the account a mule account since the purpose of the account is not to defraud or scam, it is a part and  parcel of the relationship. I do not believe you are breaking any rules/laws.

[zmisha]

As far as I can judge, the final deadline to pay taxes for 2024 is the 1th of March 2025
So we are all safe before the 1th of March 2025 - no need to pay a baht before this date.
Am I right?

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, zmisha said:

As far as I can judge, the final deadline to pay taxes for 2024 is the 1th of March 2025
So we are all safe before the 1th of March 2025 - no need to pay a baht before this date.
Am I right?

31st March is the last date for filing a return, 1 January is the first date. You have seven days from filing to pay so safe until 7 April I believe.

[JohnnyBD]

I was thinking about several ways one can avoid paying PIT in Thailand, regardless of the type of visa you have. I will certainly use some of the options below. If anyone can think of any other options, please share them. Thanks...

1. Stay less than 180 days in-country (non-tax resident), remit as much money as you want tax free for future year's spending when you are a tax resident.

2. Stay 180 days (tax resident), remit less than the TEDA threshold, so as not to owe any taxes, can use previously remitted monies if needed.

3. Stay 180 days (tax resident), remit only pre-2024 monies

4. Stay 180 days (tax resident), remit only tax-exempt monies as per DTA such as; your US Social Security, gov't pensions, etc.

5. Stay 180 days (tax resident), get a LTR visa if one can qualify

[treetops]

29 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

I was thinking about several ways one can avoid paying PIT in Thailand, regardless of the type of visa you have. I will certainly use some of the options below. If anyone can think of any other options, please share them. Thanks...

 

Lots of ideas in the previous threads:

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1327550-legal-strategies-to-reduce-thai-tax/

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1317007-legal-tax-minimization-for-foreigners/

 

 

[JohnnyBD]

41 minutes ago, treetops said:

 

Lots of ideas in the previous threads:

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1327550-legal-strategies-to-reduce-thai-tax/

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1317007-legal-tax-minimization-for-foreigners/

 

I read through both threads already, but didn't see any other legal options than what I listed. There were some things mentioned like; gifting, or using CCs & debit cards at ATMs and not reporting those as remittances, but that seems to me to be questionable options rather than solid legal options.

Thanks again.

[steph83]

Is there any website to calculate easily the tax amount online ?

[Robin]

I have read through all the 19 pages above, and it seems to me that much depends on the definition of 'savings' that are being brought in to Thailand.

If I sell my house in UK, is this money 'savings'  House was bought over the years with payments from my income.  Was that "savings,"

Value of house has increased during the time I have owned it, but as my 'principal dwelling ' in UK it is exempt from UK Capital gains tax.

How will RD view this money if I transfer it to my Thai bank account?  I would call it savings.

Second question;  If I give this money to a trusteed friend in UK, and they then send me 20M B as a gift, is this exempt from tax?  If they do that every year until the money is used up, is it still a tax emept gift?

[Kalasin Jo]

Very sad to report my wife's  unexpected death on 10th July and cremation on 14th July at our local temple after a prolonged illness with progressive neurological deficit and in consequence increasing physical deficit too.

 

I'm not posting here for sympathy but to ask what effect this has on the substantial allowance against income for a non working wife. Obviously without a wife here it will cease to be available, but when? Can I claim it for the whole of 2024, is it apportioned, or simply not available?

Thanks in anticipation.

[Expat68]

On 5/18/2024 at 7:34 PM, treetops said:

 

I have and I believe it does as I fall under this definition from the UK DTA.

 

 

Does that mean if you have a house (in my case the UK) in the said state, you are not liable for tax? Although I live in Thailand UK is my Domain 

[Skeptic7]

On 5/18/2024 at 5:28 PM, patman30 said:

How much are you allowed to gift the Thai wife each year?

For a gift received by a person who is an ascendant, a descendant or a spouse:

Subject to tax on the amount of the gift received in excess of 20 million baht in a tax year.

 

For a gift received by a person who is not an ascendant, descendant or spouse on occasions of tradition or custom:

Subject to tax on the amount of the gift received in excess of 10 million baht in a tax year.

 

https://sherrings.com/gift-tax-law-in-thailand.html

[Skeptic7]

On 5/19/2024 at 6:56 AM, Lacessit said:

I am guessing there will be thresholds applied, amounts more than 100K, 500K baht or 1 million baht attract the interest of the taxman. Lower than that, it's not worth the effort.

Prob so, but B100k is nothing...🥜 

[alanrchase]

I don't think trying to remit pre 2024 money will work. Tax authorities are not daft. I suspect all tax authorities consider that the tax years income is spent first before you dip into savings. If you have income of $20,000 in a year they will not consider any money to be savings till you have used up that $20,000.

[scorecard]

On 5/18/2024 at 4:48 PM, PJ71 said:

This sounds like the most sensible option.

 

What's the calendar year, 1st Jan - 31st Dec?

And the reality is that (in my estimation) there's thousands of foreigners who are here and devoted to their families, and some also working full time so they are without question tax residents.

[jrmaanda]

My only significant source of funds comes from capital gains when I sell shares. If I wanted no tax liability for this in Thailand, would it be sufficient that for one in every seven years I arranged to live in Thailand for well under 180 days, and only sold my shares (and transmitted the proceeds to Thailand) during those particular years?

[bkk6060]

On 6/13/2024 at 2:32 PM, Mike Lister said:

Given that know her well and she is your g/f, it would be difficult to call the account a mule account since the purpose of the account is not to defraud or scam, it is a part and  parcel of the relationship. I do not believe you are breaking any rules/laws.

He is not breaking any rules, but if a tax resident is remitting money to their Thai gf, wouldn't those funds be taxable to him?  Example, a guy stays here 8 months,goes home and sends his gf money from his foreign account for the next 4 months.  He is remitting income into Thailand as a tax resident correct?

[treetops]

1 hour ago, Expat68 said:

Does that mean if you have a house (in my case the UK) in the said state, you are not liable for tax? Although I live in Thailand UK is my Domain 

 

It's not quite that simple.  You need to read the DTA, in particular for this issue the Fiscal Domicile article, and see how you fit in.

[JBChiangRai]

22 minutes ago, jrmaanda said:

My only significant source of funds comes from capital gains when I sell shares. If I wanted no tax liability for this in Thailand, would it be sufficient that for one in every seven years I arranged to live in Thailand for well under 180 days, and only sold my shares (and transmitted the proceeds to Thailand) during those particular years?

Ideally, you should stay in your home country for at least 180 days, you have to be tax resident somewhere and if you simply went on holiday the Thai authorities could argue your main residence and hence tax residence was Thailand.

 

8 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

He is not breaking any rules, but if a tax resident is remitting money to their Thai gf, wouldn't those funds be taxable to him?  Example, a guy stays here 8 months,goes home and sends his gf money from his foreign account for the next 4 months.  He is remitting income into Thailand as a tax resident correct?

Not necessarily, if he got no benefit from that money, ideally it should be given on her birthday or other significant event.

 

I think it’s easy to lose sight of the fact than nothing has really changed. Do exactly what you would have done last year and the year before.

 

The big change is on digital coins (crypto).

[jayboy]

53 minutes ago, alanrchase said:

I don't think trying to remit pre 2024 money will work. Tax authorities are not daft. I suspect all tax authorities consider that the tax years income is spent first before you dip into savings. If you have income of $20,000 in a year they will not consider any money to be savings till you have used up that $20,000.

 

I don't see why.

 

Quite a few people I know are now funding their life in Thailand through savings incurred pre 2024, and letting tax year income pile up in their home countries.I believe, if asked by Thai tax authorities, they will be able to prove remittances were made through pre 2024 savings.If Thailand goes over to taxing world wide income,that is obviously a different situation.

[Dakhar]

On 5/20/2024 at 10:24 AM, Banana7 said:

That form is very confusing. At the top it says Personal Income Tax Return for taxpayer with only income from employment
under Section 40 (1) of the Revenue Code Only

 

But in section A it wants you to enter "Salaries, wages, pensions etc. (Plus exempted income from 5.)"

Pensions are not income from employment.

 

Are there multiple versions of the Thai Personal Income Tax Return forms? I am retired , not employed.

 

I am an LLC member, money from the LLC isn't considered a salary/wage/dividend 

 

Under USA laws the money is called "distributions." I have no idea what to claim the money is in Thailand.

[bkk6060]

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Not necessarily, if he got no benefit from that money, ideally it should be given on her birthday or other significant event.

I understand,  but that is not is being advertised.  It is simply foreign income remitted to Thailand I think, says nothing about a benefit to you .  The example before the guy says she sends it to her for expenses.  So, it is not a gift.

Not trying to argue just want to clarify but maybe no clear answer on this.

[JBChiangRai]

21 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I understand,  but that is not is being advertised.  It is simply foreign income remitted to Thailand I think, says nothing about a benefit to you .  The example before the guy says she sends it to her for expenses.  So, it is not a gift.

Not trying to argue just want to clarify but maybe no clear answer on this.

 

He can’t send it for expenses.  He has to do it as a gift.

 

and if it’s the only income she gets, and he stays with her in her home, then he has a problem, because he’s received a benefit from it

[alanrchase]

34 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

I don't see why.

 

Quite a few people I know are now funding their life in Thailand through savings incurred pre 2024, and letting tax year income pile up in their home countries.I believe, if asked by Thai tax authorities, they will be able to prove remittances were made through pre 2024 savings.If Thailand goes over to taxing world wide income,that is obviously a different situation.

I can live for years on my savings as well. I suspect there will be a need to prove the money is savings, I also suspect that your income in the year will need to be shown as well. I suspect they will consider money remitted to Thailand to be from income first until it is all used up. It will all be moot if they decide to tax worldwide income anyway. Not really worth getting into various ways to lower your tax bill until they have decided exactly what they are going to do and made it law.

[PJ71]

56 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

you have to be tax resident somewhere

You actually don't.

 

I work in a country where i don't pay tax, stay half the year in Thailand where i don't work, neither are my home country which i'm tax domicile from.

 

I've not paid tax anywhere since approx. 1996/97 nor will i ever pay tax anywhere.

[sometimewoodworker]

On 5/25/2024 at 4:59 AM, Mike Lister said:

There is an open issue that we cannot resolve regarding the assessability of funds that are remitted in a year whilst not Thai tax resident, but earned whilst you were, and if they are  assessable to Thai tax or not. I appreciate this scenario runs counter to the rule whereby only remitted funds are assessable to Thai tax, but it nevertheless concerns many of us.

I can see no way that those funds are taxable.

 

If you are non-resident during a calendar year you have no assessable income irrespective of the situation if you were tax resident, irrespective of the amount transferred. So any funds remitted during that year are by definition exempt from Thai taxes.

 

if you are non tax resident you can bring in as many millions as you like subject to money transfer limitations, you will have no income tax liability.

 

While there are cash transfer limits anyone popping in for a couple of weeks holiday can bring in any amount subject to the limitations