Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

The issue is now at a point that we are either waiting for another government announcement, or, the 1st January 2025 to arrive.  

 

Opinions, views, speculation, predictions, facts, quotes, links, laws, youtube etc etc have all been posted. 

 

It's now in a holding a pattern.

 

Time will tell. 

 

 

You've been at that point for several months yet still manage to to keep talking about nothing and posting even greater numbers of irrelevant unnecessary posts. The smart guys took a holiday and found something useful to do, I'm going to join them. Bye.

[KhunHeineken]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

You've been at that point for several months yet still manage to to keep talking about nothing and posting even greater numbers of irrelevant unnecessary posts. The smart guys took a holiday and found something useful to do, I'm going to join them. Bye.

You are 3rd Place on the posters list for this thread. 

 

You have posted 136 posts on this thread.  Enjoy your holiday, I'm sure the rest of us will enjoy your holiday from the thread as well. 

[jwest10]

Yes, I have asked before and gone around to my local tax office several times and also the very many so-called experts and it seems no one knows what is happening and are these 2024 forms (if any) and some posts mentioning can use the pink Id card which has the same number of digits.

I have been on the IRS sites and it seems very complicated but can anyone confirm, as it seems no one at all knows'
If there are any forms where will they be available but we have no choice and wait and see.
Thoughts, please and thank you

 

[jwest10]

56 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Yes, I have asked before and gone around to my local tax office several times and also the very many so-called experts and it seems no one knows what is happening and are these 2024 forms (if any) and some posts mentioning can use the pink Id card which has the same number of digits.

I have been on the IRS sites and it seems very complicated but can anyone confirm, as it seems no one at all knows'
If there are any forms where will they be available but we have no choice and wait and see.
Thoughts, please and thank you

 

Seen sone posters thinking the forms for 2024 may??? be printed ens of Oct/Nov and where exactly do we get the m form but we have no choice but to wait and only transmitted funds for this year, correct?

[JimGant]

16 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

That's my point, in the UK HMRC has clear guidelines that if you use a Foreign Credit Card to purchase Goods or Services in the UK and then pay the resulting bill using money from a Foreign Bank Account you are remitting money into the UK.

If memory serves, the remitting taxation aspect for UK taxpayers pertains only to non domiciled residents -- and is where taxation on credit card purchases is covered. Non dom "residents" is a strange animal, at least it appeared so when I tried to figure out from HMRC literature on how you become one.

Any Brits out there a non dom UK resident? If so, could you explain how you acquired this status -- and how you tie break your Thai tax residency status with your UK tax residency status. Thanx.

[topt]

42 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Any Brits out there a non dom UK resident? If so, could you explain how you acquired this status

If you mean a British citizen who has managed to get non domiciled status then @sometimewoodworker posted in a thread about that but, AFAIK, he is not UK tax resident.

44 minutes ago, JimGant said:

and how you tie break your Thai tax residency status with your UK tax residency status

You don't necessarily - if I understand what you are asking. You can be tax resident in both places in the same year - partly complicated by the fact that the tax years are different periods.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, topt said:

AFAIK, he is not UK tax resident.

I am a U.K. tax payer, I am not a U.K. tax resident 

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, topt said:

You can be tax resident in both places in the same year

Well, no -- not for treaty purposes. All treaty language gives the country of residence priority in taxation rights for many categories of income -- either exclusionary or primary. So, there can't be a "both" situation.

 

The language for tie breaking residence situations in most DTAs is pretty straightforward: Where do you live most of the year; what country has your primary residence; etc. Can't reach an agreement? Well, then you go to the "competent treaty authorities" for a decision (who the he-- are they -- and how would you ever engage with them......). Oh well.

[sidneybear]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

memory serves, the remitting taxation aspect for UK taxpayers pertains only to non domiciled residents --

The remittance tax for non-domiciled UK residents is no more. It was cancelled by the Starmer government. 

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Well, no -- not for treaty purposes. All treaty language gives the country of residence priority in taxation rights for many categories of income -- either exclusionary or primary. So, there can't be a "both" situation.

 

The language for tie breaking residence situations in most DTAs is pretty straightforward: Where do you live most of the year; what country has your primary residence; etc. Can't reach an agreement? Well, then you go to the "competent treaty authorities" for a decision (who the he-- are they -- and how would you ever engage with them......). Oh well.

 

Well, yes!

 

@topt

 

"It is possible to be resident for tax purposes in more than one country at the same time. This is known as dual residence".

 

https://www.litrg.org.uk/international/double-taxation/dual-tax-residence

Edited 13 hours ago by chiang mai

[topt]

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

The remittance tax for non-domiciled UK residents is no more. It was cancelled by the Starmer government. 

Even they don't move that quickly........

Changes were actually proposed by the Conservative govt. and Labour will apparently run with similar from April 2025 - 

https://www.charlesrussellspeechlys.com/en/insights/expert-insights/private-wealth/2024/regime-change-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-the-remittance-basis/

 

 

[anrcaccount]

2 hours ago, sidneybear said:

The remittance tax for non-domiciled UK residents is no more. It was cancelled by the Starmer government. 

 

Good point.

 

So soon, it appears we don't have anywhere in the world that taxes foreign credit card spending ( India excepted, which is trying to introduce a heavily critiqued rule with many permutations regarding this)

 

It's ludicrous to believe that foreign credit card spending will be taxed in Thailand. Anyone worrying about that, is worrying unnecessarily. 

[Lorry]

9 hours ago, JimGant said:

Well, no -- not for treaty purposes. All treaty language gives the country of residence priority in taxation rights for many categories of income -- either exclusionary or primary. So, there can't be a "both" situation.

 

The language for tie breaking residence situations in most DTAs is pretty straightforward: Where do you live most of the year; what country has your primary residence; etc. Can't reach an agreement? Well, then you go to the "competent treaty authorities" for a decision (who the he-- are they -- and how would you ever engage with them......). Oh well.

There are DTAs where you can be tax resident in both countries. 

Things get very complicated then. 

[ukrules]

53 minutes ago, Lorry said:

There are DTAs where you can be tax resident in both countries. 

Things get very complicated then. 

 

Also it's very possible (easy in fact) to be non resident in any country depending on where you come from and how long ago you left your country of citizenship - that's the only potential snag - where you come from originally. Some countries don't like to let go.

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by ukrules

[JimGant]

9 hours ago, chiang mai said:

"It is possible to be resident for tax purposes in more than one country at the same time. This is known as dual residence".

Ok. But for tax treaty purposes, where, again, you have to determine which country is your tax treaty country of tax residence ('cause of the exclusionary or primary taxation rights language), you have to resort to the treaty's tie breaker language. From the link you provided:

Quote

For a period of dual residence, double taxation agreements are particularly important in resolving any double taxation which may arise. When interpreting a double tax treaty for a dual residence period, you need to work out in which country you are resident for the purposes of the treaty. This is usually determined by a series of ‘tie-breaker’ tests to determine that country. Usually this is the country which is:

1. the country where you have a permanent home available to you,

 

[chiang mai]

16 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Ok. But for tax treaty purposes, where, again, you have to determine which country is your tax treaty country of tax residence ('cause of the exclusionary or primary taxation rights language), you have to resort to the treaty's tie breaker language. From the link you provided:

 

 

A fairly easy to read explainer which says that the SRT can make a person UK tax resident, even if the number of days spent in another country, makes them tax resident there also. Whilst technically not tax resident perhaps in the UK under formal rules, tax that arises there is still due and payable. The net affect being tax residency in two countries.

 

https://www.uhy-uk.com/insights/becoming-non-uk-resident-can-you-escape-grasp-uk-taxation