Thailand to join the BRICS+

[newbee2022]

15 minutes ago, bradiston said:

So what? Did I ever argue about the size of BRICS? No. I denounced Russia as an ex hegemon and China as a current one. Your idiotic deflections are completely irrelevant. The 2 biggest players are near fascist states, authoritarian, dictatorial, one party. So what's to like? Absolutely sweet fa. Do you live in one? It's all rubbish, this slobbering over the 2 nastiest states in the world. Why don't you live in China or Russia, newbie?

You seem to be a bit over, aren't you? Why those insults?

Why you show such bad behaviour? 

 

[bradiston]

23 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

You seem to be a bit over, aren't you? Why those insults?

Why you show such bad behaviour? 

 

You didn't really take in anything I wrote, just pushed out a load of figures which are obtainable anywhere. What about China and Russia? How do you see them? I suggested they along with India have got their eyes set on plundering the other BRICS+ states. What do you think? Do you think they really give a damn about them apart from the resources they have?

[John Drake]

13 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

USA is now strengthening ties with Vietnam. 

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/09/11/joint-leaders-statement-elevating-united-states-vietnam-relations-to-a-comprehensive-strategic-partnership/

 

Thailand has already chosen Big Brother.  They'll have to live with that in the future. 

 

Plenty of other markets in the region for the USA to look towards. 

 

I would be surprised if this is still the case for Vietnam.  There has been a slow moving coup going on in Vietnam. Hardline pro-China generals have ousted the economic "liberals." Vietnam was never going to side with the US. The Communist Party is following Xi's example and using a corruption campaign to get rid of any sense of even economic pluralism, much less political pluralism. And don't forget that China controls the Mekong. I hope that the US doesn't make the mistake of letting Vietnam use them only to find out they've been worked over just like in Thailand. BTW that also goes for Taiwan. What a blunder to bring US economic and military investment to an island that can vote itself into being directly under Beijing's control. Don't think it will happen? The accommodationist KMT, which wants a Hong Kong style arrangement the PRC, already controls Taiwan's legislature. Best alternative is to invest, buttress, and aid the Philippines.

Edited May 31 by John Drake

[Tailwagsdog]

Yes it's a good idea for countries like Thailand Cambodia & Malaysia to shun the Western Economies considering the bulk of their exports go to Europe & USA. Better still we can pay them in Yuan Roubles and Rand ..ha ha ha ...such fools 

[KhunHeineken]

23 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

I would be surprised if this is still the case for Vietnam.  There has been a slow moving coup going on in Vietnam. Hardline pro-China generals have ousted the economic "liberals." Vietnam was never going to side with the US. The Communist Party is following Xi's example and using a corruption campaign to get rid of any sense of even economic pluralism, much less political pluralism. And don't forget that China controls the Mekong. I hope that the US doesn't make the mistake of letting Vietnam use them only to find out they've been worked over just like in Thailand. BTW that also goes for Taiwan. What a blunder to bring US economic and military investment to an island that can vote itself into being directly under Beijing's control. Don't think it will happen? The accommodationist KMT, which wants a Hong Kong style arrangement the PRC, already controls Taiwan's legislature. Best alternative is to invest, buttress, and aid the Philippines.

The document was dated September 2023, so not that long ago. 

 

Biden visited Vietnam at the same time.

 

This document is also dated September 2023. 

 

https://www.vietnam-briefing.com/news/us-president-biden-vietnam-visit-2023-outcomes.html/

 

"Biden’s business delegation also closed several deals for cooperation and investment in Vietnam impacting sectors like AI, cloud computing, semiconductors, and new energy."

 

If Vietnam was so pro-China, why would the USA be investing in Vietnam?  

 

Apple has invested in Vietnam, relocating 11 factories.

 

https://vir.com.vn/apple-relocates-11-manufacturing-units-to-vietnam-104942.html

 

Also, Intel.  $4 billion is no small investment. 

 

"Meanwhile, Intel has initiated the expansion of its Phase 2 chip verification plant in Ho Chi Minh City, involving an investment amounting to a staggering $4 billion,” said Vuong."

 

Vietnam's economy is one of the fast growing in Asia.  Dated March 2024. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/vietnam-reports-q1-gdp-growth-566-2024-03-29/

[John Drake]

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The document was dated September 2023, so not that long ago. 

 

Biden visited Vietnam at the same time.

 

This document is also dated September 2023. 

 

https://www.vietnam-briefing.com/news/us-president-biden-vietnam-visit-2023-outcomes.html/

 

"Biden’s business delegation also closed several deals for cooperation and investment in Vietnam impacting sectors like AI, cloud computing, semiconductors, and new energy."

 

If Vietnam was so pro-China, why would the USA be investing in Vietnam?  

 

Apple has invested in Vietnam, relocating 11 factories.

 

https://vir.com.vn/apple-relocates-11-manufacturing-units-to-vietnam-104942.html

 

Also, Intel.  $4 billion is no small investment. 

 

"Meanwhile, Intel has initiated the expansion of its Phase 2 chip verification plant in Ho Chi Minh City, involving an investment amounting to a staggering $4 billion,” said Vuong."

 

Vietnam's economy is one of the fast growing in Asia.  Dated March 2024. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/vietnam-reports-q1-gdp-growth-566-2024-03-29/

 

These are the same businesses that got snookered by China. US policy has been something evolving over the past several years. This turn to China is something that has been recent.

 

Quote

In just a few weeks, the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) has shredded its reputation for boring political stability. A long-running power struggle, disguised by a wider anti-corruption campaign, has resulted in the sudden sacking of both the country’s president, Vo Van Thuong, and the chair of the National Assembly.

The outcome of this fight should cause those who still hope that Vietnam could join an ‘anti-China’ coalition to think again. Although this power struggle is not about foreign policy, it will result in a turn towards China and away from the West.  https://www.chathamhouse.org/2024/05/vietnams-political-turmoil-reveals-turn-towards-china-and-away-west

 

[fondue zoo]

The BRICS countries rely considerably on trade with G7 nations for their import and export revenues. Significantly reducing this dependence would be difficult and potentially harmful to their economies. Not impossible but it would not be a smooth process. However many of the member nations are not known for listening to their constituents so any outcry will be ignored.

[KhunHeineken]

On 6/1/2024 at 4:53 AM, John Drake said:

These are the same businesses that got snookered by China. US policy has been something evolving over the past several years. This turn to China is something that has been recent.

Will Vietnam "snooker" them in the same way?  Not sure..  They must have given some guarantees before the companies threw all that money down and relocated their factories. 

 

Biden, and Obama, didn't get on a plane for nothing. 

 

Vietnam's star is on the rise. 

[connda]

On 5/31/2024 at 9:59 AM, newbee2022 said:

Sorry to say, but that's nonsense what you post here:

"Combined, the BRICS members encompass about 30% of the world's land surface and 45% of the global population.[a] Brazil, Russia, India, and China are among the world's ten largest countries by population, area, and gross domestic product (GDP) nominal and by purchasing power parity. All five initial member states are members of the G20, with a combined nominal GDP of US$28 trillion (about 27% of the gross world product), a total GDP (PPP) of around US$57 trillion (33% of global GDP PPP), and an estimated US$4.5 trillion in combined foreign reserves (as of 2018).[8][9]"

So, it makes sense to join these countries for economical benefit. 

As US and the so called "West" are going to be unstable and unreliable, Thailand's move towards BRICS is understandable. More even because the cultural bonds with China.🙏

And the BRICS nations are becoming an economic force dejure.  Western oriented commenters will interject that China and Russia plan Neo-Colonialism of BRICS members.  The attractive part of the BRICS charter is that member states do not interfere with the domestic affairs of other member states.  Of course Western ideologues who promote Western exceptionalism will huff, puff, and snort as they declare all BRICS nations as corrupt dictatorships.  Time will dissect that particular trope and scatter it to the winds.

This summary is by world renowned economist Jeffrey Sachs:
"The World Bank figures make clear that the economic dominance of the West is over. In 1994, the G7 countries (Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, U.K., U.S.) constituted 45.3% of world output, compared with 18.9% of world output in the BRICS countries (Brazil, China, Egypt, Ethiopia, India, Iran, Russia, South Africa, United Arab Emirates). The tables have turned. The BRICS now produce 35.2% of world output, while the G7 countries produce 29.3%.

As of 2022, the largest five economies in descending order are China, the U.S., India, Russia, and Japan. China’s GDP is around 25% larger than the U.S.’ (roughly 30% of the U.S. GDP per person but with 4.2 times the population). Three of the top five countries are in the BRICS, while two are in the G7. In 1994, the largest five were the U.S., Japan, China, Germany, and India, with three in the G7 and two in the BRICS."
-Jeffrey Sachs, https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/emerging-multipolar-world

And this is just the beginning as the BRICS alliance become the major economic powerhouse driving global commerce as it pulls the third-world and developing world out of poverty - at the same time as the West imposes austerity on it's middle-classes cum Neo-impoverish-classes of citizens.  The future bodes not well for Western economies or its citizens which have literally shot themselves in the feet by attempting to sanction the rest of the world into submission.  It isn't working.  In fact, it's driving non-Western-aligned nations to join the BRICS+ alliances.  Keep an eye on the Saint Petersburg International Ecomonic Forum which directly competes with the Western Davos Forum, as well as the BRICS summit coming up in October 2024.  The world is changing rapidly.  And Western nations are basically screwing themselves.  They could cooperate and compete, but unfortunately they only want to dominate.  That's a losing strategy.

https://forumspb.com/en/

https://brics-russia2024.ru/en/

[newbee2022]

6 minutes ago, connda said:

And the BRICS nations are becoming an economic force dejure.  Western oriented commenters will interject that China and Russia plan Neo-Colonialism of BRICS members.  The attractive part of the BRICS charter is that member states do not interfere with the domestic affairs of other member states.  Of course Western ideologues who promote Western exceptionalism will huff, puff, and snort as they declare all BRICS nations as corrupt dictatorships.  Time will dissect that particular trope and scatter it to the winds.

This summary is by world renowned economist Jeffrey Sachs:
"The World Bank figures make clear that the economic dominance of the West is over. In 1994, the G7 countries (Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, U.K., U.S.) constituted 45.3% of world output, compared with 18.9% of world output in the BRICS countries (Brazil, China, Egypt, Ethiopia, India, Iran, Russia, South Africa, United Arab Emirates). The tables have turned. The BRICS now produce 35.2% of world output, while the G7 countries produce 29.3%.

As of 2022, the largest five economies in descending order are China, the U.S., India, Russia, and Japan. China’s GDP is around 25% larger than the U.S.’ (roughly 30% of the U.S. GDP per person but with 4.2 times the population). Three of the top five countries are in the BRICS, while two are in the G7. In 1994, the largest five were the U.S., Japan, China, Germany, and India, with three in the G7 and two in the BRICS."
-Jeffrey Sachs, https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/emerging-multipolar-world

And this is just the beginning as the BRICS alliance become the major economic powerhouse driving global commerce as it pulls the third-world and developing world out of poverty - at the same time as the West imposes austerity on it's middle-classes cum Neo-impoverish-classes of citizens.  The future bodes not well for Western economies or its citizens which have literally shot themselves in the feet by attempting to sanction the rest of the world into submission.  It isn't working.  In fact, it's driving non-Western-aligned nations to join the BRICS+ alliances.  Keep an eye on the Saint Petersburg International Ecomonic Forum which directly competes with the Western Davos Forum, as well as the BRICS summit coming up in October 2024.  The world is changing rapidly.  And Western nations are basically screwing themselves.  They could cooperate and compete, but unfortunately they only want to dominate.  That's a losing strategy.

https://forumspb.com/en/

https://brics-russia2024.ru/en/

Yes, that's what I think.

[bradiston]

55 minutes ago, connda said:

And the BRICS nations are becoming an economic force dejure.  Western oriented commenters will interject that China and Russia plan Neo-Colonialism of BRICS members.  The attractive part of the BRICS charter is that member states do not interfere with the domestic affairs of other member states.  Of course Western ideologues who promote Western exceptionalism will huff, puff, and snort as they declare all BRICS nations as corrupt dictatorships.  Time will dissect that particular trope and scatter it to the winds.

This summary is by world renowned economist Jeffrey Sachs:
"The World Bank figures make clear that the economic dominance of the West is over. In 1994, the G7 countries (Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, U.K., U.S.) constituted 45.3% of world output, compared with 18.9% of world output in the BRICS countries (Brazil, China, Egypt, Ethiopia, India, Iran, Russia, South Africa, United Arab Emirates). The tables have turned. The BRICS now produce 35.2% of world output, while the G7 countries produce 29.3%.

As of 2022, the largest five economies in descending order are China, the U.S., India, Russia, and Japan. China’s GDP is around 25% larger than the U.S.’ (roughly 30% of the U.S. GDP per person but with 4.2 times the population). Three of the top five countries are in the BRICS, while two are in the G7. In 1994, the largest five were the U.S., Japan, China, Germany, and India, with three in the G7 and two in the BRICS."
-Jeffrey Sachs, https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/emerging-multipolar-world

And this is just the beginning as the BRICS alliance become the major economic powerhouse driving global commerce as it pulls the third-world and developing world out of poverty - at the same time as the West imposes austerity on it's middle-classes cum Neo-impoverish-classes of citizens.  The future bodes not well for Western economies or its citizens which have literally shot themselves in the feet by attempting to sanction the rest of the world into submission.  It isn't working.  In fact, it's driving non-Western-aligned nations to join the BRICS+ alliances.  Keep an eye on the Saint Petersburg International Ecomonic Forum which directly competes with the Western Davos Forum, as well as the BRICS summit coming up in October 2024.  The world is changing rapidly.  And Western nations are basically screwing themselves.  They could cooperate and compete, but unfortunately they only want to dominate.  That's a losing strategy.

https://forumspb.com/en/

https://brics-russia2024.ru/en/

So what? Big deal.

[BobBKK]

Very sensible move. The West's hegemony is over.

[bradiston]

3 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Very sensible move. The West's hegemony is over.

Drivel

[Hummin]

On 5/31/2024 at 5:19 AM, bradiston said:

So what? Did I ever argue about the size of BRICS? No. I denounced Russia as an ex hegemon and China as a current one. Your idiotic deflections are completely irrelevant. The 2 biggest players are near fascist states, authoritarian, dictatorial, one party. So what's to like? Absolutely sweet fa. Do you live in one? It's all rubbish, this slobbering over the 2 nastiest states in the world. Why don't you live in China or Russia, newbie?

 

 

Nato War against Russia becomes more and more a likely scenario, and Thailand? What do they have to gain continue relationship with the west against their Neigbhourhood? 

[bradiston]

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

 

 

Nato War against Russia becomes more and more a likely scenario, and Thailand? What do they have to gain continue relationship with the west against their Neigbhourhood? 

Oh yeah, NATO war against Russia. You're reading from the Putin playbook. Paranoid delusions. But he used them to justify a preemptive strike against Ukraine. Complete invention.

[Hummin]

50 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Oh yeah, NATO war against Russia. You're reading from the Putin playbook. Paranoid delusions. But he used them to justify a preemptive strike against Ukraine. Complete invention.

What you obviously forget, Russia did not attack any Nato countries, but Nato countries choosed to take part. Now France threatening putting French boots in Ukraine.

 

They are already there from Nato countries as instructors, but combat troops will change the game. 

 

What is right or wrong is a different matter, and should said Russia attack Nato? 

[bradiston]

4 hours ago, Hummin said:

What you obviously forget, Russia did not attack any Nato countries, but Nato countries choosed to take part. Now France threatening putting French boots in Ukraine.

 

They are already there from Nato countries as instructors, but combat troops will change the game. 

 

What is right or wrong is a different matter, and should said Russia attack Nato? 

The Russians are all over Africa. And Belarus. Do your homework.

[mistral53]

55 minutes ago, bradiston said:

The Russians are all over Africa. And Belarus. Do your homework.

ChatGPT thinks there a some subtle, but significant differences:

 

'In short, China and Russia are not colonizing Africa in the traditional sense. Instead, they are heavily involved in the continent through economic investments, trade, political engagements, and military cooperation. These activities are sometimes criticized for creating economic dependencies and exerting significant influence, but they do not constitute colonization as historically defined.'

[bradiston]

57 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

ChatGPT thinks there a some subtle, but significant differences:

 

'In short, China and Russia are not colonizing Africa in the traditional sense. Instead, they are heavily involved in the continent through economic investments, trade, political engagements, and military cooperation. These activities are sometimes criticized for creating economic dependencies and exerting significant influence, but they do not constitute colonization as historically defined.'

Well, just what is ChatGPT's historical definition of colonization? I don't use it so can't look it up. I mean, Russia "colonized" the whole of Central Asia, Eastern Europe, Eastern Ukraine (the Donbas), Crimea, and vast swathes of what it claims as Russian territory.

[Hummin]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

The Russians are all over Africa. And Belarus. Do your homework.

Who is not all over? That's how it's been since Alexander The great, and before him

[KhunHeineken]

On 6/7/2024 at 6:45 AM, BobBKK said:

Very sensible move. The West's hegemony is over.

If / When the west concedes their "hegemony" is over, it will be World War 3.  Probably manufactured by the west, to wipe the debt slate clean. 

 

There will probably be some "false flag" operation/s to kick it off. 

 

Question is, who's going to be in the "coalition of the willing" and who's going to be in the new and expanded "axis of evil."  Remember these terms?   

 

Countries like Thailand will have to pick a side.  They chose the US during the Vietnam war.  Remember "The Domino Theory" BS? 

 

Thailand might do what Thailand has always done in history and do a deal to keep its sovereignty.  The trouble for Thailand will be, this means they must make a bet on the outcome of the war. 

 

Bet on the wrong side, and Thailand loses out on the spoils of war, and actually becomes the spoils of war. 

 

The "system" in Thailand where you buy military promotions and political power, rather than earn it through education, hard work, and policy, will probably see poor decisions made at crucial times in the future, so in my opinion, when the the time comes, and it will come, Thailand will be up for grabs, and a strategic country for occupation to wage war against China.  It's probably why the US let it go, so the west will just take it in the future, rather than pay for it on an ongoing basis.