New Tax Rules for Expats in Thailand Spark Concern

[mrbojangles]

9 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

I expect thousands more will also cut back in the same way. Thailand could lose a noticeable amount in the retail sector.

 

 

Exactly. I posted similar early on in the thread about buying a new car. I'm certainly not going to transfer another 1m baht + to put towards trading in my car for a new one when I could get stung for a big tax bill for doing so. Prior to Dec 2023 I transferred enough money to last about 2 years, including my daughters school fees and also the 800k retirement money. Like you, I'm now cutting right back on what I send here.

[J Branche]

38 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

Folks I thought this tax was for EVERYONE in Thailand including Thais.....Not a word has been said about a new income tax for Thais....

 

It was also quite kind of them to come out with the LTR visa the  LTR excludes the richest expats from paying any tax..Which pores cold water on  saying the income tax is needed to raise money...When the most well-off expats are excluded from paying any tax.....

This half baked mess of a tax has more holes in it than Swiss cheese....Savings excluded,Gifts excluded, Treaties excluded, ATMs pretty much excluded etc etc etc

 

The whole thing is pretty much a hopeless mess.....

 

 

 

Misinformation, Please provide Any information to support Thais will Not pay Foreign Sourced Income Tax.

 

Reference

https://rd.go.th/21/page-1/

Thai Revenue Department Official website

Many Documents ONLY in Thai Language about Taxes, Foreign Sourced Assessable Income Tax

[J Branche]

Double Post, Please Delete only this post

[ballpoint]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

By March 2025, foreign retirees and other expats in Thailand will be required to file income tax returns for the 2024 tax year, marking a significant shift in the nation’s approach to taxing foreign residents.

 

Only if remitting assessable income above their tax free threshold.  Just like we're already meant to be doing.  The only change is the year that income was earned no longer matters, but if you've been complying with the old rules - remitting money earned one year in a later one, then this year is nothing different.  The real change will happen when filing early 2026 for the 2025 tax year.

 

Seems most people's reaction is akin to one of two things: Sticking their head under a blanket and hoping it won't see them and go away. Or fleeing from the house because there's a spider in the bath.  My tax bill for the THB 2M I remit annually will be under THB 350k.  Once my money here drops to a sufficiently low level, I'll try spending 181 days out of the country in 2027, and "earn" and remit enough for another three years in that non-tax resident year.  It might be fun to do some extended travel every three years, but if spending over half a year way from my own house, for the sake of a miserable THB 350k becomes a drag, then I'll just pay the bill and be done with it.

[worrab]

24 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Wake up Guys ! sooner or later Thai Immigration will ask retirees for a copy of their Thai Tax return and/or their Bank Books  in order to grant a long stay visa. .

Again, as I have said earlier in this looooooooong post, what about those that do not need to register for a TIN or make tax returns for whatever reason? It is not quite as clear cut as you describe about waking up to. Any thoughts like that need a lot of thinking about before any implementation can even be considered.

[ryandb]

1 minute ago, atpeace said:

Yes most those roads existed because of taxes.  History isn't your strength.  You do know there are types of taxes other than income?

 

Free market does provide a lot but not everything.  It also provides an abundance of corruption left to its own devices.  I get it - the tax system isn't perfect.  Still waiting on you to provide the alternative.

The Gas tax didn't come in until the 1930s, they were funded through Public land sales. Yes, there were some import tariffs, but again you had a choice like your shoes, if you wanted the imports pay the tax. I'm a voluntarist, I'm fine with paying for things I agree with, but I do not believe in funding my oppressors.

 

For a modern example over 60% of Sweden's roads are privately funded.

 

What alternative exactly, just because the people have been convinced taxation is just and indoctrinated into the greater good argument from school age doesn't mean it would not work, unfortunately, we've been highjacked by central banksters so there will never be a End the fed candidate allowed. 

 

 

 

[Srikcir]

5 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

but they do have the retiree's bank book at visa renewal time.

Not if a foreigner has a LTR visa Pensioner category.

[Cabradelmar]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

By March 2025, foreign retirees and other expats in Thailand will be required to file income tax returns for the 2024 tax year, marking a significant shift in the nation’s approach to taxing foreign residents.

Significant shift 😂 Expats have ALWAYS had to pay taxes on assessable income 🥱🥱🥱 They changed (closed) one tax loophole to broaden the base, but you still only pay on assessable income. For the love of all that's holy, relax.

[redwood1]

5 minutes ago, J Branche said:

Misinformation, Please provide Any information to support Thais will Not pay Foreign Sourced Income Tax.

 

Reference

https://rd.go.th/21/page-1/

Thai Revenue Department Official website

Many Documents ONLY in Thai Language about Taxes, Foreign Sourced Assessable Income Tax

 

So how many news articles have you read about Thais paying a new tax?...Zero

 

Yea thats what I thought......Me also.....I have read zero too...

[Jaxxper]

I think this is just scaremongering. Each individuals tax position is specific to them.

I agree you’ve got to pay tax somewhere, but not be taxed on money you’ve already been taxed on.

I’m sure the requirements will be made clear as the tax filing date approaches. I don’t think the time for drastic moves is here yet. Just my view.

[Geir Rasch]

24 minutes ago, ryandb said:

Pre 1913 America, roads, schools, fire houses etc. all existed. They also weren't going around bombing the world before this period too.....

 

Free market provides everything at much better value and better quality, and before you talk about the American healthcare system realize it is enabled by the government, for e.g. in some cities per state laws you can not open a hospital without the other hospitals agreeing so they can keep a monopoly on pricing, then we have IP protection laws allowing drug companies to inflate the market cost while they have IP protection which is a farce.

 

And before you ask no I do not believe in social safety nets, families and communities such as churches should take care of this.

When talking about country with a good welfare system, USA is one of the last countries I wold think of. Yes, Thailand is a corrupt country, but still I think everyone taking advantage of the country should also pay tax.

[redwood1]

2 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Not if a foreigner has a LTR visa Pensioner category.

 

Yea I would say a LTR visa is a tax free ....Free lunch......For the most wealthy...

[Phulublub]

34 minutes ago, mania said:

Actually way back when this taxing was first mentioned I pretty much thought it was all about Thai's & closing a loophole many of them use to work abroad & hold their savings there a year then sending it all home tax free. When you consider all the farm workers abroad & other lines of work it made sense.

It is.  So much hot air, so much "they are after us" nonsense, so much "they need us so much" baloney.  The vast majority of long term expats will have little or no tax liability as their assessable income will largely or wholly be either exempt or already taxed. 

 

I look forward to the complainers and moaners leaving for what they see as better options and not bothering these Thai forums any further.

 

PH

[ryandb]

2 minutes ago, Geir Rasch said:

When talking about country with a good welfare system, USA is one of the last countries I wold think of. Yes, Thailand is a corrupt country, but still I think everyone taking advantage of the country should also pay tax.

 

I state I don't believe in social security safety nets such as welfare

[freeworld]

32 minutes ago, bob smith said:

The question I have is given this new 'law', why would any future prospective retirees choose Thailand over Cambodia or the Phils?

 

bob.

Because it is Thailand, lots of what is available here is not available in the places you mention.

[Srikcir]

5 hours ago, wimpy said:

90% of my daily expenses are paid with a foreign credit card. What little cash I use is brought in through atm withdrawals, and goes into my pocket. Good luck taxing that.

What expenses you don't pay with a foreign credit card, what if you cover expenses with Thai baht drawn from an ATM using your foreign credit card, ie., VISA, M/C? How is Thai Revenue going to track that source?

[bob smith]

1 minute ago, freeworld said:

Because its is Thailand, lots of what is available here is not available in the places you mention.

Thailand is not special.

 

It is middle of the road.

 

always has been and always will be!

 

bob.

[Phulublub]

9 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

So how many news articles have you read about Thais paying a new tax?...Zero

 

Yea thats what I thought......Me also.....I have read zero too...

It isn't a new tax.  It is a change to existign tax.

 

Don't know about you, but I would never read anything about Thais paying it as I cannot read Thai.

 

PH

[Noah K]

So, does everyone (Thai nationals) file a tax return every year? Do Thai nationals that receive a paycheck for services rendered have income taxes deducted from their pay? I have dozens of Thai friends. Only those with a business pay income taxes, most with small cash jobs just ignore filing a tax return. Are they going to crack down on everyone, or are they targeting expats?

[Phulublub]

4 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

What expenses you don't pay with a foreign credit card, what if you cover expenses with Thai baht drawn from an ATM using your foreign credit card, ie., VISA, M/C? How is Thai Revenue going to track that source?

The same way they can track any and all electronic transfers into and out of the Country.

 

PH

[CharlesHolzhauer]

13 minutes ago, Jaxxper said:

I think this is just scaremongering. Each individuals tax position is specific to them.

I agree you’ve got to pay tax somewhere, but not be taxed on money you’ve already been taxed on.

I’m sure the requirements will be made clear as the tax filing date approaches. I don’t think the time for drastic moves is here yet. Just my view.

It may be helpful to read the 'Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand' <https://aseannow.com/topic/1324294-introduction-to-personal-income-tax-in-thailand/#comment-18857397> in particular DUAL TAX AGREEMENTS (DTA’s).

[jwest10]

6 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I'll take that bet and I'll raise you an eclair.

Mike, I thank you again and others and again this has been covered many times before by Mike and indeed there was tax lawyers explanation on this site and unless you are filthy rich, the vast majority will be under the Thai tax thresholds and there are quite generous allowances available.
As for a Tax return and if not exceeding the allowance then why do you need to fill in a tax form.
Also, in many posts it seems it will be extremely unlucky to be pulled up on this but sometimes in the Western world one can get fined.
I have seen some posts and stating it might be linked to your yearly extensions but have been led to believe this is a  different department but in due course who knows in Thailand and some things change quickly in Thailand.
Why this ascome up again, I do not know but there are extensive posts on this forum and you just have to look up the subject matter.
Cheers all

[Geir Rasch]

13 minutes ago, ryandb said:

The Gas tax didn't come in until the 1930s, they were funded through Public land sales. Yes, there were some import tariffs, but again you had a choice like your shoes, if you wanted the imports pay the tax. I'm a voluntarist, I'm fine with paying for things I agree with, but I do not believe in funding my oppressors.

 

For a modern example over 60% of Sweden's roads are privately funded.

 

What alternative exactly, just because the people have been convinced taxation is just and indoctrinated into the greater good argument from school age doesn't mean it would not work, unfortunately, we've been highjacked by central banksters so there will never be a End the fed candidate allowed. 

 

 

 

I know your kind exist, but I’m very happy none of you are in political power. If you exclude all the road only used by the owner, it is simply not true that over 60% of roads in Sweden are privately funded.

[cnx101]

Couldn’t care less what they do, no more extensions there for me

[Wrwest]

5 hours ago, Excogitator said:

More tax treaties are needed, like the ones Thailand has with the Scandinavian countries, to avoid double taxation.

While not an international tax attorney, if I read Articles 20 & 21 of the USA-Kingdom of Thailand Tax Treaty correctly, my solely USA retirement income from government sources is exempt. I am thinking I will wait for the Thai government to come to get me ... and they can deal with my Thai Wife and Stepdaughter. Ha! 

[Wavel]

This is not all “Doom and Gloom” Many expatriate home countries like the UK have a DTA ( dual tax aggrement) with Thailand. So sort your affairs out in your own country first, and you cannot be liable to pay in Thailand as well.

[Ebumbu]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Not exactly. Let me ask @JimGant to explain it to you, he can be useful when explaining the US side of things.

 

Thank you. 

[4MyEgo]

45 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

With myself as an example, there will be significant less money flowing in from abroad by those of us living here.

 

I'm with you on this.

 

45 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Even though I could meet a tax bill as just another expense, I refuse to do so to aid the Bangkok crooks to widen the massive gap between the rich and poor in Thailand. Unlike some here I am not intimidated by possible consequences of rule bending or avoidance.

 

Amen to that.

 

45 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

If tax residents are ever given the same rights and privileges as locals my attitude will change.

 

That should be at the top of their list, you taketh, but you don't giveth, so I keepeth, or at least half of it, as I reduce my spending here.

 

I too have contributed about 20 million here in my years living here, e.g. house build, car, domestic holidays, private schools for kids, etc etc, and even having had a look at the tax scale and the deductions, on a million a year, although it isn't that bad, it's still money out of my pocket for absolutely nothing, so why should I add to the already inflated prices here for my $'s worth.

 

As I have already remitted enough before the end of last year so as not to get caught up in this for at least a couple of years, on a million baht remittance per year, I would have to pay them 60,500 in taxes a year, and of course get nothing in return, free hospital care, a road that keeps getting patched for as long as I can remember when they are laying new bitumen at places where it isn't needed, wonder who lives there ?

 

When I go back to my home country next year, I will make sure every family member carries $9,999 on them in cash and we will cash it in here when we need it, that will sort it for another year, because by then it's Age Pension time.

 

[freeworld]

Thailand had 11.9 million tax forms files for Jan 2023 to April 2024, it was an increase of 3.34% over the previous tax year.

 

So based on revenue departments always increasing revenues and beating expectations, with the new change in wording in the revenue code, the 2024/2025 tax year is going to be an exceptionally  bumper crop of rich pickings from tax residents.

[foreverlomsak]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

some retirees could see tax bills exceeding 71,000 Thai Baht.

To achieve a tax bill of 71,000 the retiree would need 780,000 of assessable income, on top of the "Thai Allowances & Deductions", which for a single pensioner I estimate to be in the order of 350,000