5 year multiple entry DTV visa (Destination Thailand) from 2024-xx-xx

[DonniePeverley]

21 minutes ago, Lorry said:

From the posted article in the NYT:

 

Mr. Petzold suggested that some of the anger was misplaced, citing a high number of expatriates and digital nomads, who bring higher salaries to the competitive rental market.

“These people have more impact on the city and everything than the actual tourists,”

 

Utter nonsense. 

 

Tourists from wealthier countries spend on tourist attractions, hotels, restaurants, nightlife, gifts, etc (Unless they are Chinese or Indian tourists).

 

A long term visitor will invariable be more open to eating at home, won't visit many tourist attractions as he has done them, and won't go crazy on nightlife like he is on holiday.

 

The only sector which a digital nomad may help is in buying a long term condo. And there is your answer. 

 

Forget the ecological and mass tourism, the answer always comes back to one thing. 

 

 

Edited July 12 by DonniePeverley

[DonniePeverley]

On 7/11/2024 at 7:07 AM, mokwit said:

Indians sleeping 4 to a room can lower the rental of any condo. Probably share the same THB 500k too unless there is a seasoning requirement (probably will be)..

 

4 ? Bit of a low ball there. I have seen 8-10 indians in a two bedroom condo. Last week in Kuala Lumpur my friends condo, next door neighbour had two full families (ten people including grandparents and children) in a one bedroom appartment ! 

[JoeyMac]

New low this.

 

I'm surprised they even have a border system anymore. Forget passport control. Just go straight through. 

 

[Phillip9]

17 minutes ago, JoeyMac said:

New low this.

 

I'm surprised they even have a border system anymore. Forget passport control. Just go straight through. 

 

 

They haven't even anounced the requirements to get this visa yet.  Why is everyone assuming it will be easy to get????

 

Thailand has a long history of announcing visas that initially sound great, but then they add so many ridiculous requirements that almost nobody actual qualifies.

[shdmn]

1 hour ago, Phillip9 said:

 

They haven't even anounced the requirements to get this visa yet.  Why is everyone assuming it will be easy to get????

 

Thailand has a long history of announcing visas that initially sound great, but then they add so many ridiculous requirements that almost nobody actual qualifies.

I suspect there will be some serious hoops to jump through.

Edited July 12 by shdmn

[JoeyMac]

2 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

 

They haven't even anounced the requirements to get this visa yet.  Why is everyone assuming it will be easy to get????

 

Thailand has a long history of announcing visas that initially sound great, but then they add so many ridiculous requirements that almost nobody actual qualifies.

 

It's announcemed more or less. The only requirements is a bank document to say you have £10k funds. Having been in India on travel, it would be very easy to fake a document like that too out there. 

 

This is going to cause carnage numbers wise. 

 

 

[shdmn]

On 7/9/2024 at 4:27 AM, danyuchn said:

 

If things go like what this official said, it seems that DTV visa holders can substantially reside in Thailand for the whole 5-year period with occasional border runs to renew their 180 days.

 

Best news for nomads, worst news for those holding 5-year elite visa, isn't it?

 

---

 

---

Speaker: Mr Naruchai Ninnad - Deputy Director-General of the Department of Consular Affairs, Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Event: July 5, TAT Digital Nomads Connect in One Nimman

 

Visa Characteristics:

• Duration: 5 years, multiple entry.

• Validity vs. Length of Stay:

  • Visa valid for 5 years from issuance.

  • Each stay up to 180 days.

  • Extendable once per stay for an additional 180 days (maximum continuous stay of 360 days).

  • Must leave Thailand for minimum 1 day after 360 days to reset for another 180+180(extension) days stay.

• Visa Fees: 10,000 THB.

• Application Locations: Royal Thai Embassy, Royal Thai Consulate, or online via Thai e-visa.

• Availability Date: Within 15 days from July 5, 2024.

Intended Groups:

1. Remote workers, freelancers, digital nomads.

2. Participants in activities like Muay Thai, Thai cooking, seminars, music festivals, etc.

3. Families of DTV visa holders (spouse and dependent children under 20 years old).

Visa Requirements:

• Financial Evidence: Proof of funds no less than 500,000 THB (bank account, retirement funds account, etc.). This proof is required during both application and extension but the funds do not need to stay in your account during your stay in Thailand.

• Other Documents:

  • Passport or travel documents.

  • Photograph.

  • Document indicating current location.

  • Proof of employment in another country (employment contract or portfolio of projects working on).

  • If attending a course, a letter of acceptance.

  • For family members, proof of relationship (marriage or birth certificate).

Tax Information:

• Will DTV visa holders be taxed? No! ←This is verbatim what the speaker, Mr. Ninnad, said. However, the following conversation between him and a person who asked a question also occurred during the Q & A session:

• Questioner: So, digital nomads will probably be going to the border after 6 months and coming back, and that means they’ll have to pay tax.

• Mr. Ninnad: Yes if you receive your income from here, yes. If you do not bring your income here, you receive it from abroad, from another country, you don’t have to pay tax.

---

source:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0Ka6DhoLVjc1HvuV3auB6yzQf74RsEtiCUdC1JsboeUz4URPMh9goXD9cpsGmNm4Fl&id=100055797049621

So the two biggest hurdles look to be 500k baht in a bank account somewhere and proof of employment or portfolio of contracts or projects working on.  So looks like retirees and the unemployed will not qualify.  The majority of people who would be using this would probably be self-employed.  Not sure what they would want to see for that.  I don't have anything that could be considered a portfolio or contracts or projects.  I just have monthly deposits coming on from an online business.  My income income statements would be trivial to forge, so I doubt that would suffice.  

Edited July 12 by shdmn

[Phillip9]

50 minutes ago, shdmn said:

  I don't have anything that could be considered a portfolio or contracts or projects.  I just have monthly deposits coming on from an online business.  My income income statements would be trivial to forge, so I doubt that would suffice.  

 

Most countries that have similar visas  require tax returns for the last year or two along with bank statements showing matching deposits.  I assume Thailand will do the same.

[shdmn]

6 minutes ago, Phillip9 said:

 

Most countries that have similar visas  require tax returns for the last year or two along with bank statements showing matching deposits.  I assume Thailand will do the same.

In that post above it specifically says they want to see some kind of proof of employment or projects or contracts.  Tax and bank records will not satisfy that requirement.

Edited July 12 by shdmn

[mokwit]

50 minutes ago, shdmn said:

In that post above it specifically says they want to see some kind of proof of employment or projects or contracts.  Tax and bank records will not satisfy that requirement.

The trouble with Thailand is it asks for things that can't be provided.

[shdmn]

5 minutes ago, mokwit said:

The trouble with Thailand is it asks for things that can't be provided.

It means you have to read between the lines because some things they will accept and some things they will not, and you have to try figure out what that is.  

[mokwit]

Just now, shdmn said:

It means you have to read between the lines because some things they will accept and some things they will not, and you have to try figure out what that is.  

Yes that is true, and they can offer realistic alternatives/choices, but i mean what I say. For example your outside Thailand medical insurance for OA visa is acceptable if a Director of the insurance company provides a signed declaration that matches the Thai insurance requirements. Try getting that, or a Criminal record clearance "from the British embassy" (a Malaysia MoFA Consul), a letter from your employer confirming they will rehire you (a 6 month tourist visa requirement).

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, shdmn said:

So the two biggest hurdles look to be 500k baht in a bank account somewhere and proof of employment or portfolio of contracts or projects working on.  So looks like retirees and the unemployed will not qualify.  The majority of people who would be using this would probably be self-employed.  Not sure what they would want to see for that.  I don't have anything that could be considered a portfolio or contracts or projects.  I just have monthly deposits coming on from an online business.  My income income statements would be trivial to forge, so I doubt that would suffice.  

I think they will set a very high bar in terms of employer company size - see LTR visas. It might appear that this visa is designed for free lancers or people running online business, but I suspect the actual terms will be too restrictive. Thai cooking classes will probably have to be paid in advance for 180 days.

[Phillip9]

2 hours ago, shdmn said:

In that post above it specifically says they want to see some kind of proof of employment or projects or contracts. 

The post above was just a general press release announcing this visa is coming.  It was not giving you all the details about how to apply for the visa.  There will be heaps more requirements and details published when this gets approved.

[shdmn]

37 minutes ago, Phillip9 said:

The post above was just a general press release announcing this visa is coming.  It was not giving you all the details about how to apply for the visa.  There will be heaps more requirements and details published when this gets approved.

I have no idea what post you are talking about.  The one I am talking about has quite a few new details.

 

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0Ka6DhoLVjc1HvuV3auB6yzQf74RsEtiCUdC1JsboeUz4URPMh9goXD9cpsGmNm4Fl&id=100055797049621

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PYJTMSqL0bE3gJmUIDM9AygXR4j0_9wSuioYea5oqtM/edit?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR39RK02kC1WBeoMgIgqT37Clh2ElYkzOStl6-uRSqaieck3iz5ECoV__3I_aem_-5fAsJNaUAQBbJYe4eLWkA#heading=h.8n4h7xzb0pqn

 

 

 

Edited July 13 by shdmn

[Persuader0963]

4 hours ago, shdmn said:

So the two biggest hurdles look to be 500k baht in a bank account somewhere and proof of employment or portfolio of contracts or projects working on.  So looks like retirees and the unemployed will not qualify.  The majority of people who would be using this would probably be self-employed.  Not sure what they would want to see for that.  I don't have anything that could be considered a portfolio or contracts or projects.  I just have monthly deposits coming on from an online business.  My income income statements would be trivial to forge, so I doubt that would suffice.  

I believe the proof of employment will only be required if you apply under the "digital nomad / freelancer" route. There could possibly be different requirements if you're applying under the "Muay Thai / Thai cooking class" route. 

 

Watch all the ED farm Muay Thai gyms pivot to this... 

[shdmn]

11 minutes ago, Persuader0963 said:

I believe the proof of employment will only be required if you apply under the "digital nomad / freelancer" route. There could possibly be different requirements if you're applying under the "Muay Thai / Thai cooking class" route. 

 

Watch all the ED farm Muay Thai gyms pivot to this... 

There are 3 categories.

 

Workcation: Remote worker, Freelancer, Digital nomad
Participants of Activites Related to Thai Soft-Power and MICE: Muay Thai, Thai Cooking, Seminars, Misc Festivals etc.
Family of DTV Holder: Spouse, Dependent Children under 20.

[beammeup]

The longest cooking classes I have seen are 6 weeks. Why would they give a 5 year visa for that?

[Lorry]

57 minutes ago, beammeup said:

The longest cooking classes I have seen are 6 weeks. Why would they give a 5 year visa for that?

If the visa will be introduced as announced you will be able to stay 6 years (last entry on the last day of the visa, 6x180 days, each extended once to 360 days). 5 visa runs.

Tax free, free multiple reentries, visa fee 10,000/6 = 1666 B/ year.

 

Gf is planning to offer cooking classes "How to cook Somtam".

Classes will last 6 years (cooking Somtam is not easy).

Classes will be offered in Soi 6.

 

My local 7/11 is planning a seminar "How to make best use of this week's promotion"

There are new promotions every week, so the seminar will never end.

 

 

 

 

[Phillip9]

1 hour ago, beammeup said:

The longest cooking classes I have seen are 6 weeks. Why would they give a 5 year visa for that?

So you can see it obviously won't be a simple multi entry visa as we know them now.  Just wait for all the ridiculous details.

 

[NoshowJones]

  "Some entire streets of tourist areas were literally boarded-up after past "crackdowns" (this was long before covid)."

That's right, and who was responsible for these crackdowns? It was the soldiers led by General Cha Cha who stole the country in an illegal coup.  

[NoshowJones]

On 6/17/2024 at 6:00 AM, bigt3116 said:

 

Sorry, still don't know what "crackdowns" you are on about. Maybe you could let me know a time period and what the crackdown was?

I remember from between about 2018 up until the Chinese virus started that whenever I was in Bangkok I noticed a lot less westerners in the streets, there were a few small adjustments to the law rather than any crackdowns which affected a lot of westerners negatively due to the soldiers government and lots of reports about foreigners leaving.

[mokwit]

6 hours ago, shdmn said:

It means you have to read between the lines because some things they will accept and some things they will not, and you have to try figure out what that is.  

Coming back to this, Thailand has VERY PRECISE requirements always. It is not like the West where they list alternatives and might accept something else if it is equivalent. They may offer alternatives but you have to exactly match one of the alternatives - e.g. proof of address required a TM30, a letter from you bank addressed to you won't do.

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

So you can see it obviously won't be a simple multi entry visa as we know them now.  Just wait for all the ridiculous details.

 

Proof of employment in another country. How are they going to define remote work eligibility?

[Mike Teavee]

5 hours ago, Persuader0963 said:

I believe the proof of employment will only be required if you apply under the "digital nomad / freelancer" route. There could possibly be different requirements if you're applying under the "Muay Thai / Thai cooking class" route. 

 

Watch all the ED farm Muay Thai gyms pivot to this... 

 

4 hours ago, beammeup said:

The longest cooking classes I have seen are 6 weeks. Why would they give a 5 year visa for that?

 

What's crazy is that they had a massive clampdown on ED Visas pre-covid where you had to prove attendance at classes & (Unless attending a formal University course) got a Maximum of 1 year (might have even been 6 months). 

 

Now they're saying you can do a bit of cooking & stay for 5-6 years!

  

[mokwit]

4 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

 

 

What's crazy is that they had a massive clampdown on ED Visas pre-covid where you had to prove attendance at classes & (Unless attending a formal University course) got a Maximum of 1 year (might have even been 6 months). 

 

Now they're saying you can do a bit of cooking & stay for 5-6 years!

  

This will suit Russians who soon after arriving immerse themselves in the local culture by studying Thai language and Muay Thai.

[Rob Browder]

5 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

  "Some entire streets of tourist areas were literally boarded-up after past "crackdowns" (this was long before covid)."

That's right, and who was responsible for these crackdowns? It was the soldiers led by General Cha Cha who stole the country in an illegal coup.  

I was thinking the "crackdowns" before that, which did a LOT of damage - when unlimited border-bounces were stopped, then had to start getting a new passport for every 3-to-4 Thai tourist-visas in order to get another one - all under the previous govt.  

 

But yes, it was later that the Bangkok-airports and Aranya were taken over by an agent-envelope group - even denying entry to many with a visa from the MFA, if they didn't arrange "pre-clearance" via some agent - "No more entries on your METV will be allowed," etc - ongoing under the current govt.

[Rob Browder]

17 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

Hang on so this is basically allowing people to live in Thailand for 5 years ?

 

That's wrong on so many levels. 

 

So they have just opened up the borders to the world to come and live here without barely and checks and controls (other than the very low savings required).

 

This is going to push up rents like nothing else. Once rents go up, local Thai's will also face the living squeeze and will also want more money, which will then push up costs to the consumer. Never mind the effects to the consumer and locals who will face so many undeseriables. 

 

Only one set of people to benefit from this and that's the property owners. 

I agree it could affect lower-end rents - but I do not think 5K/mo+ condos and apts are going to just ignore occupancy rules, or something.

 

Note that one can go to Cambodia or Laos and live there forever on easily-obtainable 1-year visas - $250-$350/year - no "bank proofs" required - and the dire-results predicted have not occurred there.  Just more money spent into the economy.

[DCXMX]

Lastest thing I've seen : https://image.mfa.go.th/mfa/0/91fPdh6NtO/VISA_Information/New_Visa_Measures_July_2024.pdf

 

 

I wonder if you can do 90 days at beginning of year and then do another 90 days at end of year or its 180 per entry.

I know its multi-entry but if wonder if they allow 90 days from (feb-aprl)  then go away and then do another 90 days (Oct - Dec) within the same calendar year as i would like to split up the time but only spend 180 total per year

 

[DonniePeverley]

4 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

I agree it could affect lower-end rents - but I do not think 5K/mo+ condos and apts are going to just ignore occupancy rules, or something.

 

Note that one can go to Cambodia or Laos and live there forever on easily-obtainable 1-year visas - $250-$350/year - no "bank proofs" required - and the dire-results predicted have not occurred there.  Just more money spent into the economy.

 

Big difference Cambodia and Laos are not open to India. The indian economy per gdp is far lower than Thailand. There will be incentives for them to come and work here. They did this in Malaysia, before their visa restrictions were put back up.

 

Just curious why did Thailand ever have any restrictions at the borders in the first place then? It's to protect local Thai's. They're sleep walking into a change that's going to change the country, and no one really asking questions. 

 

It's an absolute disgrace.