Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[bg53]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

There's good news and bad news.  No, wait......it's all bad.

 

Amazing!

 

I arrived at the same conclusion with a few rough calculations. It will be bad.

 

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Is it not classed as foreign money coming into Thailand?

I would think it is. 

[Chivas]

Utterly mind boggling.....

 

Whoever is coming up with this prolific dross better have a word with TAT as currently they're having their 7th set of kittens

[AreYouGerman]

12 hours ago, jonclark said:

 

Filing income tax is a breeze - No accountant needed - although they will have to start printing .91 forms in English as they are all in Thai at the moment and most staff at tax offices have a very basic understanding of English. But it is a breeze. Getting tax rebates is also a doddle - my tax office fills in all the necessary bits for me if I give them the correct supporting documents, and a couple of months later my cheque turns up for 40 - 50k.  Remember if you pay tax you can now claim all the rebates the government offers - including hotel rooms and household appliances as these are frequently made tax deductibles depending on how the government wants to boost the economy by increasing consumption. Even healthcare has been a tax deductible which should help pensioners.

 

 

A breeze, like everything else right now.

[Dogmatix]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

@jonclark  do you (or anyone else with experience filing Thai tax returns) happen to know if by filing online one bypasses the  local (provincial) RD ofgice? 

 

Having previously spent 2 days arguing with mine about whether such a thing as a retirement visa/extension existed I would very much like to avoid any future dealings. 

 

I suspect that office will still review your tax return.  I file online in Bangkok and it is reviewed by the tax office up the road from my house. They have never asked to see me for PIT but just send a list of documents they want me to send them. They have only requested docs to do with income or deductions, never personal documents though. If you have an online account they probably assume that personal docs were uploaded to open the account.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, BE88 said:

 

My replay was to your India statement not the PO
🙃

Why the compulsion to change the context?

I said "now" was wrong and backed it up, but you want to go somewhere else.

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, Dogmatix said:

 

I suspect that office will still review your tax return.  I file online in Bangkok and it is reviewed by the tax office up the road from my house. They have never asked to see me for PIT but just send a list of documents they want me to send them. They have only requested docs to do with income or deductions, never personal documents though. If you have an online account they probably assume that personal docs were uploaded to open the account.

Rats!!!!

 

That means unless there is some revision to forms enabling me to state my non-assessable income, I am sure to be called in, and it will be a huge headache to say the least.  Not a soul there speaks a word of English, all but very high level people have never heard of a foreigner retiring in Thailand (there are very, very, very few such in the province) and believe it is not possible/ no applicable visa category.  None have  any idea what US Social Security is, and I would be amazed if any will know anything about DTAs.

 

If I have   to hire an accountant familiar with DTAs to accompany me  it will be very costly -- they would have to come from Bangkok or Pattaya (6 hour roundtrip in both cases).

 

rats, rats, rats...

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

 

This refers to the imposition of VAT on small postal packages.  The Thai press was reporting on 4 June that the cabinet had just approved the wording for the announcement and it would be announced in the Royal Gazette and become effective 15 days later.  So far it doesn't appear to have been announced in the Royal Gazette yet.   

If you agree that "now" was as I said "wrong", why the lecture?

[ElwoodP]

3 off topic posts by the same poster removed.

[Jinxed1]

2 hours ago, Jinxed1 said:

Wait... multiple sources say "from 2024"

 

So, If this year I already remitted money that I earned before 2024 (not taxable before the change), before knowing about this new rule, I still have to pay tax on it in 2025 because it's retroactive?

 

Please tell me I'm wrong or that's completely fked up

Anyone with the answer to this please?

[Dogmatix]

35 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

There's good news and bad news.  No, wait......it's all bad.

 

 

Assume the first sentence is now incorrect, as the remittance system goes away.

 

The second sentence is a killer.  If you sell stocks or mutual funds for a $50K gain, and you offset this with a $50K loss to lower your US tax bill, you'll still be liable for tax on $50K assessable income in Thailand.

 

This will add another couple thousand dollars to my annual Thai tax bill!

 

Amazing!

 

 

Not being able to offset capital losses against gains is going to be real killer and is really unfair.  Thai companies are allowed to do it and carry losses over.  There are hardly any domestic assets that you have to file capital gains for, so it is not an issue for domestic investors.  Examples would be shares in unlisted companies, bonds, precious metals and collectables but most Thais don't trade these or don't declare them. So it the lack of offset is not an issue enough for people to complain about it. It won't apply to wealthy Thais as they will use offshore corporate structures and only pay Thai tax on dividends as their offshore companies are not Thai tax residents.

Edited June 7 by Dogmatix

[Dogmatix]

10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Rats!!!!

 

That means unless there is some revision to forms enabling me to state my non-assessable income, I am sure to be called in, and it will be a huge headache to say the least.  Not a soul there speaks a word of English, all but very high level people have never heard of a foreigner retiring in Thailand (there are very, very, very few such in the province) and believe it is not possible/ no applicable visa category.  None have  any idea what US Social Security is, and I would be amazed if any will know anything about DTAs.

 

If I have   to hire an accountant familiar with DTAs to accompany me  it will be very costly -- they would have to come from Bangkok or Pattaya (6 hour roundtrip in both cases).

 

rats, rats, rats...

 

They are unlikely to come up with a form to allow you to show non-assessable income. You might be able to get an accountant or lawyer to write a covering letter for you to take on to explain your situation.  Or at lower cost you could draft a letter yourself and have someone translate it and sign it yourself enclosing copies of the National Police Order authorizing your type of visa. Then just take it along every year with the new date on it.  Companies make written submissions to explain complex tax issues.  So no reason why they should accept the same from individuals and, if they don't come up with new forms, that will be the only way. 

[Dogmatix]

5 hours ago, Thaindrew said:

 

credit card and ATM transactions all are part of CRS reporting unfortunately

 

I have seen people say that but one of my banks overseas confirmed it was not the case. They only report year end balances and income/inflows into the account during the year.  Of course the RD can request more information from the overseas tax authority but I think they would need to have a good reason and wouldn't do it lightly. In future the scope of CRS reporting will probably broaden out and may include this data.

[beammeup]

 

I also read that the request for information on the CRS system is not free.

[SingAPorn]

Definately not sending a penny more from abroad into my Thai bank a/c. Rather bring in the ca$sh for the 5 month stay in winter.

[freeworld]

7 minutes ago, beammeup said:

 

I also read that the request for information on the CRS system is not free.

Information requested by who?

[Gknrd]

It doesn't matter at This point. All you guys will pay. Until you can't!  

Everything leading up to this has been so successful, and profitable for the Thai Government it will keep snowballing now.

No more than a joke at this point. And you expats are a huge cash cow for the Thai government.  Every one know this will be the last scheme hatched..

Hahaha.  

 

Edited June 7 by Gknrd

[Ben Zioner]

29 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

I have seen people say that but one of my banks overseas confirmed it was not the case. They only report year end balances and income/inflows into the account during the year.  Of course the RD can request more information from the overseas tax authority but I think they would need to have a good reason and wouldn't do it lightly. In future the scope of CRS reporting will probably broaden out and may include this data.

This will become irrelevant anyway if the the global tax concept goes ahead.

[beammeup]

15 minutes ago, freeworld said:

Information requested by who?

Duh, Maybe the Thai revenue department?

[freeworld]

38 minutes ago, beammeup said:

Duh, Maybe the Thai revenue department?

Duh, then what of CRS system is not free from RD??

 

"I also read that the request for information on the CRS system is not free. "

 

CRS is an automatic sharing of financial information between tax offices worldwide (except the US) Banks and financial institutions compile and input this info on a tax website within the oecd rules of type of income, outgoings, balance and whether the accounts are reportable or not . It is then automatically shared.

Edited June 7 by freeworld

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

I said last year when this all began that they don't know what they are doing. Now we have another "brain wave" that disregards the international agreement Thailand has with very many other countries on double taxation.

The same old story of no thought, research or plan, but don't lose face... If they don't get this put right there will be hundreds of planes full of expats leaving and nobody filling their place.

As Bernard used to say: TIT

[Lorry]

3 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

9 hours ago, Thaindrew said:

credit card and ATM transactions all are part of CRS reporting unfortunately

 

I have seen people say that but one of my banks overseas confirmed it was not the case.

@Dogmatixis right,  credit card and ATM transactions have nothing to do with CRS

[Dogmatix]

3 hours ago, Gknrd said:

It doesn't matter at This point. All you guys will pay. Until you can't!  

Everything leading up to this has been so successful, and profitable for the Thai Government it will keep snowballing now.

No more than a joke at this point. And you expats are a huge cash cow for the Thai government.  Every one know this will be the last scheme hatched..

Hahaha.  

 

Sad but true.  The initial statements about targeting Thai investors were nonsense.  They are going after everyone they can, even someone ordering a box of paper clips from China for 25 baht.  Whatever they can get from foreigners is easy pickings because the foreigners have no votes and they don't care, if they stay or go, as long as they pay now.

Edited June 7 by Dogmatix

[Bernietravelling]

On 6/5/2024 at 1:26 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Gotcha.... Examples:

 

If you live in Portugal for 183 or more days in a calendar year, you'll be considered a resident and must pay income tax on your worldwide income. If you live in Portugal for fewer than 183 days, you'll only need to pay on income earned within Portugal.

 

https://www.expatica.com/pt/finance/taxes/guide-to-taxes-in-portugal-105742/

 

A resident individual is subject to Australian income tax on a worldwide basis,

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/australia/individual/taxes-on-personal-income

 

 

The example of Portugal isn’t necessarily a good one, depending on the country, you are coming from.

 

…. quite a number of EU citizens are applying for residency in Portugal to reduce the tax burden from their home country 😉

[Merrill]

On 6/5/2024 at 11:40 AM, AreYouGerman said:

 

Don't you understand what a DTA is? I don't want to bicker with you.

 

It's very simple.

 

You paid tax anywhere in the world and this country has a DTA with Thailand? You don't pay tax but have to file for tax anyway but will pay 0 tax.

 

You didn't pay tax anywhere on some money you got and put it  in some Swiss bank? You have to file for tax and pay Thai taxes on it. Or hide it and be a criminal.

 

 

Taxation is a criminal offence in itself, just that we all are so used to it. A bit like the dog that has been chained up and you shorten the chain every day, the dog does not notice. If we all said enough is enough it would all go away.

 

[Tonyfarang]

I see in here (vide below) that this is starting in 2024. How can be possible? It's already 159 days and no official announcment! How it's possible to implement (change the law for 2024)? And how one that does not accept all this thing can go if they announce it late? It's not the right way.

They can announce that it starts from Jan 25 so people can make their plan and leave if it doesn't work for them.

 

In the RD website, it's still the old info (only remitance). Therefore, if they decide to officially announce it in the next days, we might be already 183 days here and considered tax residends... 

 

Anyone has officially heard that it will be implemented for 2024? Please let me know. 

 

Thank you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[expatsoon]

Kind of nice this all came up as myself, family and friends don't want to waist our time retiring in Thailand anymore with their ever changing tax laws.  Just too much of a bother for us, but a thought came to mind.... how could we get a 6 month visa to stay in Thailand?  Is there something like that?  Since we all decided not to invest or retire in Thailand, we could still stay 175 days a year there and this would also avoid depositing 800,000 baht in the Thai bank for the 12 months O/A visa.

[redwood1]

6 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

I said last year when this all began that they don't know what they are doing. Now we have another "brain wave" that disregards the international agreement Thailand has with very many other countries on double taxation.

The same old story of no thought, research or plan, but don't lose face... If they don't get this put right there will be hundreds of planes full of expats leaving and nobody filling their place.

As Bernard used to say: TIT

 

I does not matter if they get a million things wrong a million times..

 

There is always the tried and true...( It was all just a big misunderstanding)

 

To come to the rescue.....

 

I

[OJAS]

On 6/6/2024 at 5:56 AM, AhFarangJa said:

So, assuming in the future they get all their ducks in a row, and start taxing all our incomes, what do we get out of it? Free healthcare, access to pensions, scrapping of dual pricing? 

Rhetorical question, as we are dirty Farangs we get nothing.

 

Far from dual pricing being scrapped, much more likely that we would be clobbered for tax at special foreigner rates which were at least double those paid by the locals, I would have thought!

 

[CharlesHolzhauer]

6 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

The initial statements about targeting Thai investors were nonsense.  They are going after everyone they can

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the intention of the current Thai government to tax residents in Thailand on income earned globally, whether transmitted to Thailand or not, needs to be legislated. However, the recent reinterpretation of Section 41 of the tax code does not and most probably will happen.
Whereas the intent to tax residents on income earned globally is, at this stage, not ratified. Ratification of new laws may take some time and may never happen. And then again, it may not if strong political and authoritative forces back up this new law.
However, the current dismay and disappointment among us expats is understandable, as we are considered 'collateral damage.'
Since this proposal is in the very early stages, the Thai government is surely aware that most pensioners residing here for a considerable amount of time and (may or may not) supporting families and maintaining residences do not have the financial means for this additional tax burden. One would optimistically hope that the Thai government is morally persuaded to make some addendum to their proposed law to accommodate these individuals.
Therefore, shouldn't we wait before predicting gloom and doom until the proposed law is presented to the legislators?
I personally withdrew (cautiously postponed) my application for a LTR, as the new visa rules to be publicized in September may be surprising to the pensioners and/or people with a certain age in one way or another.