What visa to stay 175 days a year to avoid 800k deposit in bank?

[expatsoon]

With all the talk about tax on worldwide income and all the headache that may arise from it, my wife suggested staying just under 180 days a year in Thailand and not to invest or deposit any money there.  This actually sounds like a great plan not to be constantly buried in ever changing tax laws as well as having to deposit 800k bath for a 1 year visa.  What then would be the best visa to stay just under 6 months then?

[DrJack54]

OP, age? Assume over 50 as you referred to 800k.

You are jumping the gun imo.

Perhaps wait till any tax come into place

[expatsoon]

Over 50 yes but it just feels like Thailand is becoming a very unstable country with all these constant changes. 

We all feel better just to stay under 6 months and not think about anything.  Getting on in age and don't want to

think about being buried in paperwork. 

 

There are about 22 of us and amongst all of us we came to the decision that's it's not worth retiring or investing in

Thailand anymore for "us".  We like to keep things as simple as possible and are all  family as well as members of

a local hiking club.  We've talked about this for some time as we saw how Thailand has been changing.

 

Any visas that would work for us in that case for 6 months without having to leave in 3 months to come back again for another 3 months?

Edited June 7 by expatsoon

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, expatsoon said:

Any visas that would work for us in that case for 6 months without having to leave in 3 months to come back again for another 3 months?

You referred to 800k in OP.

Most simple option is to remain on annual extensions (retirement) using money in bank method. 

Obtain a reentry permit and limit your time spent in Thailand to whatever you want under 180days total.

 

imo crazy plan as you mention wife, friends etc..

Options visa wise....one would be METV.

Take a chill pill imo.

[Caldera]

2 hours ago, expatsoon said:

Getting on in age and don't want to

think about being buried in paperwork. 

 

That's a bizarre statement. You reckon relocating twice per year is getting easier as you'll age?

 

That would worry me more than the paperwork, as you can just pay someone qualified to deal with it on your behalf, if and when the need arises.

[retarius]

2 hours ago, expatsoon said:

Over 50 yes but it just feels like Thailand is becoming a very unstable country with all these constant changes. 

We all feel better just to stay under 6 months and not think about anything.  Getting on in age and don't want to

think about being buried in paperwork. 

 

There are about 22 of us and amongst all of us we came to the decision that's it's not worth retiring or investing in

Thailand anymore for "us".  We like to keep things as simple as possible and are all  family as well as members of

a local hiking club.  We've talked about this for some time as we saw how Thailand has been changing.

 

Any visas that would work for us in that case for 6 months without having to leave in 3 months to come back again for another 3 months?

I am leaving for 180 odd days. I have made the decision based on risk. Thailand is a high risk country to fight the bureaucracy and we have no idea what the rules are if you disagree with the tax inspector. I have been told it is an amicable discussion between you and the tax inspector....like the amicable discussions some folk have with the Immigration Officers. I am also uncomfortable with not knowing at present what form of documentation is required. I have a horrible feeling that Tax inspectors will be, as IOs are, to ask for anything. What if they ask for bank statements from banks on letterhead and with a real seal and signed by a branch manager? I cannot reasonably provide those. For this year at least I will not become a tax resident. My tax liability if my paperwork is not acceptable is very high and it is only a minor inconvenience to not become resident since I have another home (not in my country of birth or citizenship). Hopefully by the beginning of 2025, the rules will be clear and I'm sure we will have some triumphant stories on here about the gallant Englishman vanquishing the Tax Inspector, and some sob stories about how unreasonable and stupid Tax Inspectors are. If new rules on worldwide income being taxable in Thailand come out in 2025, I will stay another 180-odd days out side of Thailand in 2025 until those rules clarify. 

[expatsoon]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

You referred to 800k in OP.

Most simple option is to remain on annual extensions (retirement) using money in bank method. 

Obtain a reentry permit and limit your time spent in Thailand to whatever you want under 180days total.

 

imo crazy plan as you mention wife, friends etc..

Options visa wise....one would be METV.

Take a chill pill imo.

 

Ok, took my chill pill!  So O/A with money in the bank is still the best option then, got it thanks.

 

Edited June 8 by expatsoon

[Upnotover]

2 minutes ago, expatsoon said:

 

Ok, took my chill pill!  So O/A with money in the bank is still the best option then, got it thanks.

 

Not OA.  That has other additional requirements, one of which is not money in a Thai bank.  A non-O then an extension based on retirement is the 800k option. 

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, expatsoon said:

 

Ok, took my chill pill!  So O/A with money in the bank is still the best option then, got it thanks.

 

As mentioned above not a non O-A.

Extensions from a non O-A would require medical insurance if based on retirement.

If your extensions are based on marriage then insurance not required.

So to be clear...what visa did you originally have? A non O-A or non O and what are extensions based on marriage or retirement 

[BusNo8]

Probably your best bet is assuming you're 50+ is to get an O visa and extend. If you can get a double then you'll get your 175 days.

 

I'm doubting this can be a long term plan wo family in the mix.

[expatsoon]

59 minutes ago, Caldera said:

 

That's a bizarre statement. You reckon relocating twice per year is getting easier as you'll age?

 

That would worry me more than the paperwork, as you can just pay someone qualified to deal with it on your behalf, if and when the need arises.

 

Not really, we would prefer to stay in one country and enjoy our retirement but things look shaky in Thailand at the moment with all the sudden changes.

 

[expatsoon]

11 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

As mentioned above not a non O-A.

Extensions from a non O-A would require medical insurance if based on retirement.

If your extensions are based on marriage then insurance not required.

So to be clear...what visa did you originally have? A non O-A or non O and what are extensions based on marriage or retirement 

 

Sorry, never had a retirement visa in Thailand yet, just assumed it was a non O-A.

 

My wife of over 20 years is Thai so I guess we could do the marriage visa but the Thai

consulate here in Canada is reluctant to do it and prefers us to do the 800k in the bank

visa instead of the 400k in the bank marriage visa.

[expatsoon]

19 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

Not OA.  That has other additional requirements, one of which is not money in a Thai bank.  A non-O then an extension based on retirement is the 800k option. 

 

Thanks, we have to study the visa options more to remember which is which.

[expatsoon]

1 hour ago, retarius said:

I am leaving for 180 odd days. I have made the decision based on risk. Thailand is a high risk country to fight the bureaucracy and we have no idea what the rules are if you disagree with the tax inspector. I have been told it is an amicable discussion between you and the tax inspector....like the amicable discussions some folk have with the Immigration Officers. I am also uncomfortable with not knowing at present what form of documentation is required. I have a horrible feeling that Tax inspectors will be, as IOs are, to ask for anything. What if they ask for bank statements from banks on letterhead and with a real seal and signed by a branch manager? I cannot reasonably provide those. For this year at least I will not become a tax resident. My tax liability if my paperwork is not acceptable is very high and it is only a minor inconvenience to not become resident since I have another home (not in my country of birth or citizenship). Hopefully by the beginning of 2025, the rules will be clear and I'm sure we will have some triumphant stories on here about the gallant Englishman vanquishing the Tax Inspector, and some sob stories about how unreasonable and stupid Tax Inspectors are. If new rules on worldwide income being taxable in Thailand come out in 2025, I will stay another 180-odd days out side of Thailand in 2025 until those rules clarify. 

 

That's our concern as well.  Everything would be just fine if the rules were clear but many of us see a never ending back and forth nightmare scenario of paperwork, stamps, confusion and corruption unfolding.  It is our understanding that Thailand does not have a centralized tax department with clear rules like western countries, but instead they have regional tax departments scattered throughout each region each with their own rules and interpretation of laws.

 

It's really an insult to every human being to be taxed on worldwide income as apparently the case will be starting Jan 1, 2025 yet have no rights in Thailand, no free medical, report every 90 days and you name it.  The whole thing does not add up.

Edited June 8 by expatsoon

[DrJack54]

28 minutes ago, expatsoon said:

The whole thing does not add up.

Thinking your thread is a cover for a rant about tax issues.

 

In one post you refer to obtaining non immigrant visa "here in Canada".....

So are you even in Thailand.

 

Ways to stay in Thailand for 6 months has been covered often..

https://aseannow.com/topic/1325688-come-to-thailand-one-time-a-year-and-stay-for-6-months/

 

 

[expatsoon]

56 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Thinking your thread is a cover for a rant about tax issues.

 

In one post you refer to obtaining non immigrant visa "here in Canada".....

So are you even in Thailand.

 

Ways to stay in Thailand for 6 months has been covered often..

https://aseannow.com/topic/1325688-come-to-thailand-one-time-a-year-and-stay-for-6-months/

 

 

 

Thanks for the link, very helpful.  I guess I was ranting a little because they keep changing the laws to fast, same with some visas but I'll let it be as I do not live

in Thailand yet, just setting everything up so we don't have too many surprises.  The idea was that my whole family was coming, so with the tax uncertainty, if

more and more documents are required from our home banks with signatures etc, there would be no one to do that in our home country so we would have to

fly back and forth every time which wouldn't be too much fun. That's it, no more whining!

[nycjoe]

Kitt Mak Mak

[CanadaSam]

From experience, rarely does a new (silly) policy ever take effect here in LOS.

 

People find loopholes, people pay just a little extra, etc. and the intended (silly) policy is never ever taken seriously by anybody.

 

It's the same with this tax. 

 

IF they try to tax people bringing in their 800k for retirement, or those who want to bring in millions to buy condos, etc., IMO it will collapse the economy.

[kingstonkid]

3 hours ago, expatsoon said:

 

Ok, took my chill pill!  So O/A with money in the bank is still the best option then, got it thanks.

 

If married use that method 

[nickmondo]

6 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

You referred to 800k in OP.

Most simple option is to remain on annual extensions (retirement) using money in bank method. 

Obtain a reentry permit and limit your time spent in Thailand to whatever you want under 180days total.

 

imo crazy plan as you mention wife, friends etc..

Options visa wise....one would be METV.

Take a chill pill imo.

Dr Jack.  I would not want you as my advisor in any shape or form.

The OP and his friends are very well informed and are very sensible.

Yes, none of us know what will happen regarding tax.

Chances are nothing.......we all know what its like here.....

However, if they do bring in taxation of income........even worse........taxation of Worldwide income even if you dont bring it to Thailand...........it starts from January 2024.

Therefore...........those of us who dont want to take the risk......we have to get out before the end of June......if we have been here since 1 January 24.

so if we all take a Chill pill and take your advice and sit it out..........you going to pay our tax bill if they do decide to to ahead and tax us?

 

[DrJack54]

Any further posts concerning taxation will be removed.

There are many threads discussing taxation and can be found in "banking finance forum" 

@Mike Lister may post link to appropriate thread

[Lite Beer]

8 hours ago, expatsoon said:

Over 50 yes but it just feels like Thailand is becoming a very unstable country with all these constant changes. 

We all feel better just to stay under 6 months and not think about anything.  Getting on in age and don't want to

think about being buried in paperwork. 

What constant changes are these.

I have been here over 20 years and have not seen many changes at all.

I have also not been buried in paper work.

I am over 70 by the way.

I think you are worrying too much.

[Toby1947]

Become a  Snowbird, just under 6 months in Thailand and the rest in a civilised country. Can be done on METV with planning and a couple of holiday trips to neighbouring countries that make you more welcome than these racists 

[khunPer]

A non-immigrant O-visa and extension of annual stays based on retirement does not mean that you need to stay longer than 179 days in Thailand within a calendar year; you just need to there around time for next annual extension.

 

We still know too little about the the upcoming income taxation for foreign income – the last in the news is only a suggestion – but compared to many high income tax countries Thailand is not that bad a place when it comes to tax; especially if you don't have a multi million budget, which it doesn't seems like when 800k baht matters. Furthermore, if you home country – or country of income source – has a DTA (Double Taxation Agreement) with Thailand, the new income taxation might be of no concern if your financial sources are already taxed retirement pension, or already taxed other income, or proven savings from before 2024.

[persimmon]

If the new 60 day VEE comes in it should make life easier ie. 

60 + extension ( 30 ) = 90 , leave the country and re-enter gives another 90 , total 180 .

[persimmon]

3 minutes ago, khunPer said:

A non-immigrant O-visa and extension of annual stays based on retirement does not mean that you need to stay longer than 179 days in Thailand within a calendar year; you just need to there around time for next annual extension.

 

We still know too little about the the upcoming income taxation for foreign income – the last in the news is only a suggestion – but compared to many high income tax countries Thailand is not that bad a place when it comes to tax; especially if you don't have a multi million budget, which it doesn't seems like when 800k baht matters. Furthermore, if you home country – or country of income source – has a DTA (Double Taxation Agreement) with Thailand, the new income taxation might be of no concern if your financial sources are already taxed retirement pension, or already taxed other income, or proven savings from before 2024.

 

The problem might be the anxiety and hassel caused by having to submit many documents that are hard to get hold of . Another potential issue for UK residents is income from ISA which is tax free in the UK but may not be in Th .

[Hummin]

10 hours ago, expatsoon said:

With all the talk about tax on worldwide income and all the headache that may arise from it, my wife suggested staying just under 180 days a year in Thailand and not to invest or deposit any money there.  This actually sounds like a great plan not to be constantly buried in ever changing tax laws as well as having to deposit 800k bath for a 1 year visa.  What then would be the best visa to stay just under 6 months then?

I still use retirement option even I will not stay more than 180 days a year. Even if I did not have embassy letter, I would transfer 800 a year to spend when I was there, and refill for every renewal. 

[2ndhomepattaya]

7 hours ago, retarius said:

I am leaving for 180 odd days. I have made the decision based on risk. Thailand is a high risk country to fight the bureaucracy and we have no idea what the rules are if you disagree with the tax inspector. I have been told it is an amicable discussion between you and the tax inspector....like the amicable discussions some folk have with the Immigration Officers. I am also uncomfortable with not knowing at present what form of documentation is required. I have a horrible feeling that Tax inspectors will be, as IOs are, to ask for anything. What if they ask for bank statements from banks on letterhead and with a real seal and signed by a branch manager? I cannot reasonably provide those. For this year at least I will not become a tax resident. My tax liability if my paperwork is not acceptable is very high and it is only a minor inconvenience to not become resident since I have another home (not in my country of birth or citizenship). Hopefully by the beginning of 2025, the rules will be clear and I'm sure we will have some triumphant stories on here about the gallant Englishman vanquishing the Tax Inspector, and some sob stories about how unreasonable and stupid Tax Inspectors are. If new rules on worldwide income being taxable in Thailand come out in 2025, I will stay another 180-odd days out side of Thailand in 2025 until those rules clarify. 

I fully agree with you. This general "wait and see what happens" does not agree with me. Throughout my working life, I found the proactive approach far better than the reactive one. With reactive you are always late to the party. Besides, I own an apartment in Europe that stands idle so why not make use of it for 190 days? In fact, I like summer back home and my family is delighted, and so is my Thai partner. In fact, she would want to leave tomorrow.

It's Thailand's loss only as I will be spending my money elsewhere for 190 days a year. And most certainly will shelve any major purchases here for the time being.

[818Pilot]

6 hours ago, expatsoon said:

 

Not really, we would prefer to stay in one country and enjoy our retirement but things look shaky in Thailand at the moment with all the sudden changes.

 

With all due respect, it doesn’t sound like Thailand is a good fit for you. 

You may want to consider just staying where you are instead of moving to a different country since changes are inevitable, no matter where you move, and it doesn’t sound like you will be happy with any changes. 

[MrJ2U]

Just use an agent.

 

For around 18,000 baht they'll get you a retirement visa and a bank account.