The SNP's Decline: Scottish Voters Demand Accountability

[Pickwick]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Correct.  You missed England's victory.

I didn't 'miss' it, I am not familiar or interested in women's football, and as it hasn't been mentioned at all on this thread I was also unaware we were discussing it! At least the women of England are capable of success! Well done the lasses!

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, Pickwick said:

I didn't 'miss' it, I am not familiar or interested in women's football, and as it hasn't been mentioned at all on this thread I was also unaware we were discussing it! At least the women of England are capable of success! Well done the lasses!

 

Ignorance of a country's success does not mean that success did not happen.

 

But I'm always happy to inform and educate about the Lionesses remarkable achievement. 

 

Maybe, if you stick with the UK then Scotland could achieve something similar in the future? We would be happy to help with sport just as we help with so many other things. 

[Pickwick]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Ignorance of a country's success does not mean that success did not happen.

 

But I'm always happy to inform and educate about the Lionesses remarkable achievement. 

 

Maybe, if you stick with the UK then Scotland could achieve something similar in the future? We would be happy to help with sport just as we help with so many other things. 

Who are 'we'? The Lionesses? Sorry, I did not realise you were a girl. No offence, but I am not interested in women's football, very happy for it to get more exposure though.

[youreavinalaff]

9 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

You seem quite upset that me and the majority of my countrymen consider that being in a union with you and your country is toxic and damaging to Scotland.

Not according to the most recent vote.

[hotandsticky]

27 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Not according to the most recent vote.

 

Absolutely true. 

 

Unfortunately, your man is one of the loudest voices in the vocal minority!

[RuamRudy]

On 6/18/2024 at 4:19 PM, youreavinalaff said:

Not according to the most recent vote.

 

Which one was that?

[youreavinalaff]

30 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Which one was that?

How many votes on independence have there been?

 

Any since 2014?

[RuamRudy]

5 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

How many votes on independence have there been?

 

Any since 2014?

 

Ah, sorry, I was just foolish enough to think that you had read the posts that seemed to rile Jonnyf so much. 

 

Here is the point in a quick, digestible form: in the 2014 Scottish Independence referendum, the majority of voters who were born in Scotland voted for independence. In other words, most Scots born in Scotland rejected the UK. 

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Ah, sorry, I was just foolish enough to think that you had read the posts that seemed to rile Jonnyf so much. 

 

Here is the point in a quick, digestible form: in the 2014 Scottish Independence referendum, the majority of voters who were born in Scotland voted for independence. In other words, most Scots born in Scotland rejected the UK. 

I believe it was a vote for Scottish people. The result was NO. That's it.

[RuamRudy]

9 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

I believe it was a vote for Scottish people. The result was NO. That's it.

 

No, it was not a vote for Scottish people, it was a vote for people living in Scotland whether they considered it to be home or not. 

 

Analysis has shown that most people who were born in the country voted to leave the union, whereas most people born elsewhere voted to remain, and it was the latter which tilted the vote in favour of remain.

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

No, it was not a vote for Scottish people, it was a vote for people living in Scotland whether they considered it to be home or not. 

 

Analysis has shown that most people who were born in the country voted to leave the union, whereas most people born elsewhere voted to remain, and it was the latter which tilted the vote in favour of remain.

It was a vote for an independent Scotland. The result was NO.

 

Just as well. SNP can't even handle their own finances. They'd never be able to handle the whole country's.

[Pickwick]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

No, it was not a vote for Scottish people, it was a vote for people living in Scotland whether they considered it to be home or not. 

 

Analysis has shown that most people who were born in the country voted to leave the union, whereas most people born elsewhere voted to remain, and it was the latter which tilted the vote in favour of remain.

I often appreciate what you write in defence of your beliefs, even though I disagree with much of it, but I think you should reconsider this latest line of debate. I feel it is disingenuous at best and certainly not reflective of the welcoming, inclusive and egalitarian principles modern Scotland aims for, where we are all equal citizens, whether born in Scotland, England or elsewhere.

 

I have no love for the SNP but I am willing to listen and to try and see the opposing view(s). But we do not need to split the population into ever smaller groups and subdivisions, the world is polarised and nonsensical enough, as you've witnessed through some of the replies above. The real problem, imho, is that for independence (like Brexit before), the population is split almost 50/50. I am disappointed that no one wants to talk about that, to try and find a common ground. Instead we have juvenile and tribal responses from both sides. Your posts are far from that level, don't descend into it.

 

46 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

It was a vote for an independent Scotland. The result was NO.

 

Just as well. SNP can't even handle their own finances. They'd never be able to handle the whole country's.

I am not an SNP supporter as outlined above, but who do you trust with the country's finances? It's a genuine question. Who do you trust, full stop? People on here are claiming Keir Starmer is part of the elite, same same, as the Tories. Not to be trusted. I can understand the line of thinking. But, astonishingly, their answer to that is to vote for privately educated, former stockbroker and multi-millionaire, man of the people, Nigel Farage. The sums (and also the lack thereof) that Reform has provided make the SNP (and even Liz Truss) look like a safe pair of hands! The Liberals? The SDP? (Yes, they are a thing again.) It might be grim up north, but it doesn't look much better down south either.

[youreavinalaff]

21 minutes ago, Pickwick said:

I often appreciate what you write in defence of your beliefs, even though I disagree with much of it, but I think you should reconsider this latest line of debate. I feel it is disingenuous at best and certainly not reflective of the welcoming, inclusive and egalitarian principles modern Scotland aims for, where we are all equal citizens, whether born in Scotland, England or elsewhere.

 

I have no love for the SNP but I am willing to listen and to try and see the opposing view(s). But we do not need to split the population into ever smaller groups and subdivisions, the world is polarised and nonsensical enough, as you've witnessed through some of the replies above. The real problem, imho, is that for independence (like Brexit before), the population is split almost 50/50. I am disappointed that no one wants to talk about that, to try and find a common ground. Instead we have juvenile and tribal responses from both sides. Your posts are far from that level, don't descend into it.

 

I am not an SNP supporter as outlined above, but who do you trust with the country's finances? It's a genuine question. Who do you trust, full stop? People on here are claiming Keir Starmer is part of the elite, same same, as the Tories. Not to be trusted. I can understand the line of thinking. But, astonishingly, their answer to that is to vote for privately educated, former stockbroker and multi-millionaire, man of the people, Nigel Farage. The sums (and also the lack thereof) that Reform has provided make the SNP (and even Liz Truss) look like a safe pair of hands! The Liberals? The SDP? (Yes, they are a thing again.) It might be grim up north, but it doesn't look much better down south either.

Your questions are inane 

 

I'm simply pointing out the vote for Scottish independence was a NO vote.

 

What I think of politics in UK has no bearing on that result.

[RuamRudy]

29 minutes ago, Pickwick said:

I often appreciate what you write in defence of your beliefs, even though I disagree with much of it, but I think you should reconsider this latest line of debate. I feel it is disingenuous at best and certainly not reflective of the welcoming, inclusive and egalitarian principles modern Scotland aims for, where we are all equal citizens, whether born in Scotland, England or elsewhere.

 

I am sorry if it appeared that there was any form of judgment on my part. I fully respect the democratic decision taken at the time, and it is not my intention to point fingers at individuals who voted contrary to what I believe is best for my country (in fact I would say that the subsequent years have been without any significant recrimination or rancour).

 

But it is disingenuous to suggest that those Scots who voted for independence are in the minority, an odd band of wode-clad fantasist rather than people from every walk of life, as has been the narrative from the unionist side. 

 

Everyone comes from different experiences and those experiences shape their world views. The SNP and the Yes campaign failed to convince enough of those who were brought up in other countries that Scotland's interests were best served when decided by Scottish people. If anything, the fault lies with the Yes campaign.

Edited June 20 by RuamRudy

[Pickwick]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

But it is disingenuous to suggest that those Scots who voted for independence are in the minority, an odd band of wode-clad fantasist rather than people from every walk of life, as has been the narrative from the unionist side. 

That may as well be, but I am not a unionist either and have never suggested such a thing.