Reform UK Overtakes Tories in Polls for the First Time

[DonniePeverley]

49 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Farage runs his mouth on a lot of things, it’s his MO.

 

However, he now he has a problem; as the leader of a ‘political party’ he faces questioning that he did not face as an independent carnival barker. It’s not something he’s good at.

 

When news broke, a day or so before Farage was to be interviewed by BBC Panorama, that a ‘Reform UK’ candidate has a history of arguing Britain should have cut a deal with Hitler, and that he remains a ‘Reform UK’ candidate, Farage canceled his interview.

 

He’s good at barking, but he’s incapable of facing direct questioning.

Farage will continue to bark, make promises he knows he will never be called on to deliver and blame everyone else for failure of other cons he was involved in.

 

caveat emptor.

 

 

 

Unfortunately he's found a set of really thick people in Clacton who are going to vote him in this time.  They had the highest share of Brexit vote during the referendum too. 

 

Once MP his rhetoric will then have weight behind it. The media laps it all up. We will have to put up with endless whinging for years to come (just like we had to with UKIP). 

 

Clearly he will join the Conservative party after that. The danger is then if the old members (who are pretty xenophobic anyways) will make him leader. That will be the closest this country has ever had to a far right leader. 

 

I still can't see a single benefit of his beloved Brexit. 

[DonniePeverley]

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

No. There is no such thing as an EU passport.

 

Also, your comment said Farage applied for EU passports for him and his wife. Isn't his wife German? She'd have already had a German passport.

 

Didn't they split up 6 years ago?

 

I still have the old red passport. It says the United Kingdom and European Union on it. Clearly you are being pedantic and you know what i meant. 

 

Immediatley after the Brexit vote, he went and applied for a German passport. Why was the need for that when he didn't live there? 

 

Do you believe austerity, Brexit, banking crisis, the pandemic costs, the Truss budget etc have had any effects on the issues you complained about? Or is everything the fault of immigrants? Because if you once again just say 'immigrants' - then facts don't matter to you, and in that scenario then you clearly have certain issues. 

[simple1]

On 6/16/2024 at 5:01 AM, pegman said:

Do you mean when he campaigned champing all the benefits that would happen with Brexit? Well the latest poll I found states 31% are happy with Brexit.                                     https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-poll/.             How about when he cheered on the Liz Truss budget that almost tanked the UK economy? Old Nig seems to always be on the wrong side of history

 

 

Farage is a  lair, not a leader of any consequence. He has never won a seat as an MP. He walked away when Brexit was voted in by a very thin margin (big mistake by Cameron). Since then Brexit UK has increasing gone downhill. I doubt any pro Farage people actually read his manifesto, if they did and had some intelligence, they will not vote for him unless they want a loser PM leading HMG.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/17/farage-unveils-reform-uks-140bn-pledges-that-economists-say-do-not-add-up

[James105]

5 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

I still have the old red passport. It says the United Kingdom and European Union on it. Clearly you are being pedantic and you know what i meant. 

 

Immediatley after the Brexit vote, he went and applied for a German passport. Why was the need for that when he didn't live there? 

 

Do you believe austerity, Brexit, banking crisis, the pandemic costs, the Truss budget etc have had any effects on the issues you complained about? Or is everything the fault of immigrants? Because if you once again just say 'immigrants' - then facts don't matter to you, and in that scenario then you clearly have certain issues. 

 

The pandemic costs outweigh everything else you mention by a very very large margin.  Shutting down the economy and giving people money not to work was a catastrophic mistake that made no material difference to the outcomes of Covid.   The Labour government wanted longer and harder lockdowns and otherwise supported everything the Tories did.  

 

High levels of low skilled or no skilled immigration is great for big business who can take advantage of cheap labour but not so great for the working classes whose wages get depressed due to this, and since all these extra people need somewhere to live then this pushes up rents and the cost of buying a house which is now insurmountable for most normal people in the UK.   Also, whilst some of these migrants may well be doing the jobs that Brits do not want to do (such as looking after old people) then unless these are the type of migrants who do not get old or move back to their home country when they do then they will become part of an ever increasing older population that needs looking after.  No doubt you would want more immigrants to come in to look after the old immigrants?   It's a Ponzi scheme that will some day crash the NHS and the welfare state that Leftists claim to love so much.   

Edited June 18 by James105

[superal]

14 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

The pandemic costs outweigh everything else you mention by a very very large margin.  Shutting down the economy and giving people money not to work was a catastrophic mistake that made no material difference to the outcomes of Covid.   The Labour government wanted longer and harder lockdowns and otherwise supported everything the Tories did.  

 

High levels of low skilled or no skilled immigration is great for big business who can take advantage of cheap labour but not so great for the working classes whose wages get depressed due to this, and since all these extra people need somewhere to live then this pushes up rents and the cost of buying a house which is now insurmountable for most normal people in the UK.   Also, whilst some of these migrants may well be doing the jobs that Brits do not want to do (such as looking after old people) then unless these are the type of migrants who do not get old or move back to their home country when they do then they will become part of an ever increasing older population that needs looking after.  No doubt you would want more immigrants to come in to look after the old immigrants?   It's a Ponzi scheme that will some day crash the NHS and the welfare state that Leftists claim to love so much.   

Hindsight is a wonderful thing . COVID 19 government actions were by way of taking advice from Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies ( SAGE ) . At the time the pandemic was  rife in Europe with many deaths in Italy . There is no doubt that the " lockdowns " ) prevented many more COVID  deaths . 

What came before Covid were the austerity years . All this compounded the downturn of UK economy . Then came the high levels of immigration that have become a huge burden to the NHS , housing and education etc . 

COVID and austerity are history and cannot be undone but uncontrolled immigration has to be halted . As you say , immigration was wanted by employers so as to reduce labour costs and improve profits . Ponzi scheme ? I agree and on the Covid event , many made money from the lack of P.P.E. e.g. M. Hancock , shameful .

What we are faced with is a new Labour government that have similar ways to that of the Tory party . The rise and popularity of the Reform party cannot be dismissed and many electorate see them as the only answer to broken Britain . Those who advocate uncontrolled mass immigration , before the welfare of those born in Britain , are betraying their country and many might say are guilty of treason .

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

The Labour government wanted longer and harder lockdowns and otherwise supported everything the Tories did.  

Can you remind me, which Labour Government was that?

[James105]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Can you remind me, which Labour Government was that?

 

Fine.  If you want to be pedantic then obviously I meant the Labour opposition.   Happy now?  

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

Fine.  If you want to be pedantic then obviously I meant the Labour opposition.   Happy now?  

I am indeed.

 

So you want to blame the political party that was not in Government for the failings of a Tory Government with an unassailable majority in parliament.

[youreavinalaff]

6 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

Do you believe austerity, Brexit, banking crisis, the pandemic costs, the Truss budget etc have had any effects on the issues you complained about? Or is everything the fault of immigrants? Because if you once again just say 'immigrants' - then facts don't matter to you, and in that scenario then you clearly have certain issues. 

You are speaking to the wrong person. 

 

I have never said it's the fault of immigrants. Quite the opposite. Hence, I cannot say it once again and I don't have certain issues.

 

Over to you for the apologies.

[James105]

17 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I am indeed.

 

So you want to blame the political party that was not in Government for the failings of a Tory Government with an unassailable majority in parliament.

 

Sure, if that party is blaming the state of economy on the actions of the government that they supported that caused the economic problems without accepting their role in this.  If they had opposed lockdowns then they would have a point.  They didn't.  They wanted longer, harder lockdowns which would have caused even more economic damage.   

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

High levels of low skilled or no skilled immigration is great for big business who can take advantage of cheap labour but not so great for the working classes whose wages get depressed due to this, and since all these extra people need somewhere to live then this pushes up rents and the cost of buying a house which is now insurmountable for most normal people in the UK.   Also, whilst some of these migrants may well be doing the jobs that Brits do not want to do (such as looking after old people)

None of which happens. 

 

Take a look at what migrants need by way of qualifications, experience and salary to get a visa. I wouldn't call the salary requirements "cheap labour". I wouldn't call them low or unskilled labour either. 

 

Immigrants rent already empty properties. No one us being made homeless.

 

When you say "looking after old people", I guess you mean working in health and social care. You are so wide of the mark if you believe looking after old people is all that is all about.

 

However, a large percentage of migrants do work in health and social care. Without whom, many hospitals, care homes, supported living locations, domiciliary care locations and residential care locations would be woefully understaffed.

 

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, superal said:

As you say , immigration was wanted by employers so as to reduce labour costs and improve profits .

Maybe prior to Brexit, with the free movement of Eastern Europeans.

 

Not now with the ever increasing visa requirements.

[CG1 Blue]

54 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Maybe prior to Brexit, with the free movement of Eastern Europeans.

 

Not now with the ever increasing visa requirements.

There are no visa requirements if you arrive on a small boat having 'lost' your passport on the way

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, James105 said:

The pandemic costs outweigh everything else you mention by a very very large margin.  Shutting down the economy and giving people money not to work was a catastrophic mistake that made no material difference to the outcomes of Covid.   The Labour government wanted longer and harder lockdowns and otherwise supported everything the Tories did. 

And that's the elephant in the room that the two major parties refuse to talk about. Lockdowns did decades of damage to the economy, and this will cause misery, poor health and even death to millions over the years following the pandemic. 

 

Farage and co were anti-lockdown for exactly those reasons. Love him or hate him he calls a lot of things right. 

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So you want to blame the political party that was not in Government for the failings of a Tory Government with an unassailable majority in parliament.

 

Just as you attribute blame to the conservatives (who were not in government) for voting with Labour on the war in Iraq based on Blair's lies about WMD? 

 

During Covid, Labour would have had harder, longer lockdowns and thrown even more cash at people than the conservatives did.

[herfiehandbag]

8 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

Unfortunately he's found a set of really thick people in Clacton who are going to vote him in this time.  They had the highest share of Brexit vote during the referendum too. 

That should confirm the voting intentions of many in Clacton, and possibly throughout the country.

 

I wonder how long it will be, before it becomes common currency amongst the "enlightened ones" to refer to anyone suspected of favouring Reform UK as "gammons". It will come, of that we can be sure!

 

They never really grasped the damage it did to their cause during the whole "Brexit" business. People really do not like being labelled as "thick" because they are perceived as having a particular political opinion.

[youreavinalaff]

57 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

There are no visa requirements if you arrive on a small boat having 'lost' your passport on the way

They are illegal immigrants. 

 

Most get deported. Those that claim asylum stay until their cases are heard. They don't cause unemployment, low salaries or housing issues, the subject of the comment I replied to.

 

 

[RayC]

3 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

That should confirm the voting intentions of many in Clacton, and possibly throughout the country.

 

I wonder how long it will be, before it becomes common currency amongst the "enlightened ones" to refer to anyone suspected of favouring Reform UK as "gammons". It will come, of that we can be sure!

 

They never really grasped the damage it did to their cause during the whole "Brexit" business. People really do not like being labelled as "thick" because they are perceived as having a particular political opinion.

 

You're right but that works both ways. 

 

You do not engage in such hyperbole yourself but there are many on this forum who ape Farage and Braverman's rhetoric, sneeringly labelling anyone who does not support their anti-immigrant, anti-European viewpoint as "woke", "Islington elite", members of the anti-democratic establishment, etc, and dismissing evidence presented against their premises as the work of "so-called" experts.

Edited June 18 by RayC
correction

[CG1 Blue]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

They are illegal immigrants. 

 

Most get deported. Those that claim asylum stay until their cases are heard. They don't cause unemployment, low salaries or housing issues, the subject of the comment I replied to.

 

 

"Most get deported"

 

Unfortunately most do not get deported. Most are young men and they end up loitering around town/city centres intimidating the locals. 

[simon43]

[quote]

...

Unfortunately he's found a set of really thick people in Clacton who are going to vote him in this time

...

[/quote]

 

Ah, so really thick people shouldn't be allowed to vote?

[youreavinalaff]

7 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

"Most get deported"

 

Unfortunately most do not get deported. Most are young men and they end up loitering around town/city centres intimidating the locals. 

Do you have proof that these men are illegals?

 

Have you asked them?

 

I'd like to here your reasoning.

 

 

[scubascuba3]

I listen to LBC sometimes and pretty much every caller is voting for labour, all seem to be on one benefit or another, looking for more under labour. Talk Radio on the other hand more Conservative and Reform, workers who pay tax, or retired people who've paid tax

[CG1 Blue]

10 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I listen to LBC sometimes and pretty much every caller is voting for labour, all seem to be on one benefit or another, looking for more under labour. Talk Radio on the other hand more Conservative and Reform, workers who pay tax, or retired people who've paid tax

Agreed. LBC veered to the left in recent years getting rid of most centre right presenters. That's why most of their callers these days are lefties. It's a nice echo chamber for them. Shame

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

 

You're right but that works both ways. 

 

You do not engage in such hyperbole yourself but there are many on this forum who ape Farage and Braverman's rhetoric, sneeringly labelling anyone who does not support their anti-immigrant, anti-European viewpoint as "woke", "Islington elite", members of the anti-democratic establishment, etc, and dismissing evidence presented against their premises as the work of "so-called" experts.

Well thank you for that.

 

Mind you, I have always favoured the definition of "expert" as "ex" is a has been", and a "spurt" is what happens when you put a drip under pressure!

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 6/17/2024 at 3:41 AM, DonniePeverley said:

Now all those migrants sitting in Pattaya who moan about immigration in the UK. If they had to take a Thai language test, and a Life in Thailand test, as well as showing income of £35,000 a year how easy they would think it is. 

 

They are on non-immigrant visas so not migrants.

 

To get those visas, there are income requirements.

 

For most, there is absolutely no path to even permanent residency, let alone citizenship. 

 

Ironic you compare to Thailand, which has some of the strictest immigration laws in the World. If you get caught here illegally, you go to the Immigration Detention Centre and don't get out, under any circumstances, until you are deported.

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 6/17/2024 at 10:06 AM, DonniePeverley said:

Plenty of immigration solicitors in Thailand too telling you how to play the system.  You know get yourself a thai wife on contract so you can buy a bar, etc  You know that pesky border run and all that. 

 

You do realise by the way ... Thailand has mass immigration from Myanmar. They build all those big tall skyscraper condos in Bangkok. 

 

Australia, Canada, USA, all have big immigration numbers. It's not exclusive to the UK. 

 

There has been no mass-immigration from Myanmar. 

 

There was, and to some extent still is, a large, semi-legal workforce from the surrounding poorer countries working in Thailand. Very few of whom will be allowed to remain in Thailand permanently, and fewer still that will become Thai citizens. 

 

You need to start getting your facts right before making ill-informed comparisons with Thailand. 

[Mr Meeseeks]

22 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

Many would say Pattaya has lost it's indentity. I visited a small area of Jomtiem today, and it was full of long stay British. None of them can speak Thai. None of them work. Some game the system by taking a Thai wife so they can buy a bar. Many there are on sex tourism. Most still claim benefits of some sort from the UK. Not many Thai's out drinking or eating. 

 

None of them migrants either. 

[Mr Meeseeks]

13 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

I still can't see a single benefit of his beloved Brexit. 

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

15 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Do you have proof that these men are illegals?

 

Have you asked them?

 

I'd like to here your reasoning.

 

 

Do you think they stay in their hotel rooms all night every night?

I've seen them with my own eyes, gathering in groups round the corner from their hotel accommodation. 

These things won't be reported, so if you haven't witnessed it I can understand your scepticism. 

[youreavinalaff]

12 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

They are on non-immigrant visas so not migrants.

 

To get those visas, there are income requirements.

 

For most, there is absolutely no path to even permanent residency, let alone citizenship. 

 

Ironic you compare to Thailand, which has some of the strictest immigration laws in the World. If you get caught here illegally, you go to the Immigration Detention Centre and don't get out, under any circumstances, until you are deported.

What do you think happens to illegal immigrants who get caught in UK?