What it the most cost effective and simplest way to change Retirement Visa to Marraige visa

[thesetat2013]

Hi, thanks for any replies if given. This has probably been asked before but I would like some updated info. 

I have been on a retirement visa for many years even though i am married with children here. 

Due to the new tax regulations on money sent to Thailand, I would like to make the change to a marriage visa to reduce the amount of money transferred to Thailand via transfers. Since they can not tax monies withdrawn from ATMs this seems a viable solution to avoid paying large amounts of income tax if I am only sending money enough to cover the marriage visa requirements. 

 

Can anyone tell me what is the easiest and cheapest way to change my retirement visa to the marriage visa? 

 

I have read leaving to Laos or Vietnam and cancelling my retirement visa that way then getting a tourist visa and applying for marriage visa with 90 days on it is an option. 

 

Are there any other options that may be easier and cheaper? 

 

Also, i have been told that some immigration offices do not want to allow such changes although I do not know this for certain. So any information would be helpful about this topic. 

Thank you

[Tod Daniels]

doubt you're actually on ANY visa at all and instead if you looked at your stamp you'd see it's a year extension of stay stamp that it says "EXTENSION OF STAY PERMITTED UNTIL" and has a date inked on it  

That means you wouldn't change from ANY visa to any other visa.
 

All you'd do is change the reason for your extension from retirement to marriage when you go apply for your next yearly extension.

Remember thought, if you used banked money method last year you need to keep meeting the seasoning requirements for the year extension you're on now (have kept the 800K baht in the bank account for 3 months after the extension was issued and then never let the balance go below 400K the rest of the year)
 

I'd go to your office (with your thai wife in tow) and get the documentation requirements for a year extension based on marriage (DO NOT say you want a marriage "visa" because you don't, you want to just change the reason for your extension from retirement to marriage)

Then get the documents together and go apply for the new yearly extension based on marriage when you have 30 days or less left on this current stamp you're on now

people "change the reason for extensions" all the time and there is nothing that stops you from doing it at all.

[thesetat2013]

3 minutes ago, Tod Daniels said:

doubt you're actually on ANY visa at all and instead if you looked at your stamp you'd see it's a year extension of stay stamp that it says "EXTENSION OF STAY PERMITTED UNTIL" and has a date inked on it  

That means you wouldn't change from ANY visa to any other visa.
 

All you'd do is change the reason for your extension from retirement to marriage when you go apply for your next yearly extension.

Remember thought, if you used banked money method last year you need to keep meeting the seasoning requirements for the year extension you're on now (have kept the 800K baht in the bank account for 3 months after the extension was issued and then never let the balance go below 400K the rest of the year)
 

I'd go to your office (with your thai wife in tow) and get the documentation requirements for a year extension based on marriage (DO NOT say you want a marriage "visa" because you don't, you want to just change the reason for your extension from retirement to marriage)

Then get the documents together and go apply for the new yearly extension based on marriage when you have 30 days or less left on this current stamp you're on now

people "change the reason for extensions" all the time and there is nothing that stops you from doing it at all.

You are correct about being on extensions. Your option poses the question about their willingness to change the reason of extension. As I have been told they really do not like or want to do this. An agent also had said to me they do not want to do it and leaving the country is the only way. Start everything new. My retirement is based on monthly income. Not cash in the bank. So all the money transferred here may be subject to the new tax laws at 35%. Which is something i am trying to reduce by changing my visa status. 

[Will B Good]

23 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

Since they can not tax monies withdrawn from ATMs

 

Is that definitely the case?

 

Someone argued that these ATM withdrawals are subject to tax? Maybe they are, but problem is the admin in doing so?

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

So all the money transferred here may be subject to the new tax laws at 35%. Which is something i am trying to reduce by changing my visa status. 

Think you are jumping the gun however the option to change extension to based on marriage is simple. Especially as you are using income method. 

Your wife will need to attend..

Immigration may try to talk you out of it. 

Thread discussing the process.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1314382-change-from-reirement-to-marriage-visa/

[thesetat2013]

6 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

Is that definitely the case?

 

Someone argued that these ATM withdrawals are subject to tax? Maybe they are, but problem is the admin in doing so?

How can they? Tax is only for people living here more than 180 days. Tourist depend on ATMs for their travel. So they could not tax every withdrawal from outside the country

[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

How can they? Tax is only for people living here more than 180 days. Tourist depend on ATMs for their travel. So they could not tax every withdrawal from outside the country

My thoughts exactly......but someone....who seemed to be in the know......was insistent this was a taxable transaction?????

[Tod Daniels]

21 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

An agent also had said to me they do not want to do it

so does this agent get your retirement extensions for you?

I'd say GO talk to the immigration office with your thai wife in tow and see what they say about doing a reason change. They may not want to do it, but there is nothing stopping you from making them do it


Also if you go out of the country to get come back free entry stamp then apply for an in country Non-O visa based on marriage you aren't gonna do that with monthly income method (unless you come from a country whose embassy here still issues the income affidavit), You'd have to bank the 400K baht.

Even if you got the Non-O outside the country came back in and went to apply for the year extension you still couldn't do it based on monthly income by transfer. It'd have to be banked money   

your best bet to use monthly income method is to change the reason for your current extension from retirement to marriage at the immigration office where you get your yearly extensions.

[thesetat2013]

3 minutes ago, Tod Daniels said:

Even if you got the Non-O outside the country came back in and went to apply for the year extension you still couldn't do it based on monthly income by transfer. It'd have to be banked money

Why is that? If leaving the country and returning on tourist visa then applying for marriage visa based on income monthly transfers. The rules say when applying you need to show 2 months of deposit transfers only. So why would that be refused in this manner? 

[Ben Zioner]

9 hours ago, Will B Good said:

My thoughts exactly......but someone....who seemed to be in the know......was insistent this was a taxable transaction?????

No they couldn't tax at source every ATM withdrawals. But in the context of an audit they can now get all the relevant information from your overseas bank, and hit you hard if the find out that you have lied, or concealed information.

 

ATM withdrawals are remittances, as stated by TRD.

[Rob Browder]

11 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

Why is that? If leaving the country and returning on tourist visa then applying for marriage visa based on income monthly transfers. The rules say when applying you need to show 2 months of deposit transfers only. So why would that be refused in this manner? 

They don't follow the rules.  They did for a little while, when first making the last set of changes - then stopped, and demanded "money in the bank" for the 90-day Non-O.

 

But, I thought if one came in with a Non-O Visa from a consulate abroad, and had a full-year of monthly-transfers to show, they could do the extension.  Maybe not, per:
 

11 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

Even if you got the Non-O outside the country came back in and went to apply for the year extension you still couldn't do it based on monthly income by transfer. It'd have to be banked money   

... they do seem to hate Marriage-based extensions using xfers.

[Digitalbanana]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

and hit you hard if the find out that you have lied, or concealed information.

How does someone lie and conceal information making an ATM withdrawal using a foreign bank card? These are not remittances. Remittances are when funds are deposited into Thai bank accounts. In general, using a foreign bank ATM card to withdraw cash locally is not considered a foreign remittance transaction, and therefore may not be subject to taxation.

[Rob Browder]

3 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

No they couldn't tax at source every ATM withdrawals. But in the context of an audit they can now get all the relevant information from your overseas bank, and hit you hard if the find out that you have lied, or concealed information.

 

ATM withdrawals are remittances, as stated by TRD.

The deal is, if over 180 days, you need to file a tax-return.  Maybe you owe nothing - for example, all your income is covered by a dual-tax treaty, or is a pension / social-security.  But, I assume (better to assume the worst) that filing/submitting the forms will still be required.

 

If you choose to not report all the money you have transferred - how "hard it is" for them to "catch you" - connect you to ATM withdrawn money - is a separate question.  Also, is "withdrawing credit" the same as "withdrawing earned funds"?  I have no idea what they will say/do whenever.  But, I would just assume the worst-case ("yes"), until/when/if these questions are ever clarified, as they should have been the day this new policy was announced.

 

A clever tax-cheat would just withdraw the money in a nearby country, and bring it in as worn-gold or something - no?  Funny if we start getting pics of old guys coming across from Cambodia looking like "bling wearing" rappers.

 

This "plan" of theirs has many holes in it - not sure what they are thinking - maybe just trying to "play along" with the OECD? 

[Moonlover]

13 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

doubt you're actually on ANY visa at all and instead if you looked at your stamp you'd see it's a year extension of stay stamp that it says "EXTENSION OF STAY PERMITTED UNTIL" and has a date inked on it  

That means you wouldn't change from ANY visa to any other visa.
 

All you'd do is change the reason for your extension from retirement to marriage when you go apply for your next yearly extension.

Remember thought, if you used banked money method last year you need to keep meeting the seasoning requirements for the year extension you're on now (have kept the 800K baht in the bank account for 3 months after the extension was issued and then never let the balance go below 400K the rest of the year)
 

I'd go to your office (with your thai wife in tow) and get the documentation requirements for a year extension based on marriage (DO NOT say you want a marriage "visa" because you don't, you want to just change the reason for your extension from retirement to marriage)

Then get the documents together and go apply for the new yearly extension based on marriage when you have 30 days or less left on this current stamp you're on now

people "change the reason for extensions" all the time and there is nothing that stops you from doing it at all.

Spot on. I've actually done this myself, with the exception that I went from Retirement income level (65k per month) to the marriage income level (40K per month). 

 

No need to leave the country and get a new visa and certainly no need to use an agent.

[DrJack54]

41 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Spot on.

Agree.

However if the non O is applied for on eg retirement then the very first extension would be based on that reason.

Subsequent extensions you can change based on eg retirement to marriage. 

[Pouatchee]

switched from retirement to marriage easy peasy... no questions asked.

agents dont like the marriage visa cause they usually cant do them.  ALL the agents i talked to in pattaya said they didnt do marriage. 

[DrJack54]

36 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

ALL the agents i talked to in pattaya said they didnt do marriage. 

That's a given as marriage goes to head office hence the under consideration period.

 

[Pouatchee]

15 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Think you are jumping the gun however the option to change extension to based on marriage is simple. Especially as you are using income method. 

 

for me, living and working here, the easiest was money in the bank. i do not work anymore but it was hell to get all the tax paperwork in order from revenue and employer contract etc...

 

if you can, the ideal is money in the bank. if you are getting money from abroad i guess it is a lot easier than if you work here.

 

i dunno about the new tax law, but with money in the bank i am going to say my wife works so i can show only a few remittances and claim we are living off wife salary. i hope this works

[Moonlover]

7 hours ago, Pouatchee said:

I dunno about the new tax law, but with money in the bank i am going to say my wife works so i can show only a few remittances and claim we are living off wife salary. i hope this works

For a marriage extension you either show the 400k in the bank or 40k per month income. If you have the former then there is no need to explain to them what you're living on. That's your business, not theirs. The (not) new tax law has no bearing on this.

[Pouatchee]

4 hours ago, Moonlover said:

there is no need to explain to them what you're living on

 

every year the same io asks me how much i earn a month... like clockwork

and she writes a note in my paperwork. one day, i expect her to ask me for proof of income.  despite it not being the law... i really dont like her. there used to be 2 nice ladies in her position but 5 years ago she replaced them... when will she be replaced? i ask myself

[KannikaP]

On 7/13/2024 at 6:44 AM, thesetat2013 said:

You are correct about being on extensions. Your option poses the question about their willingness to change the reason of extension. As I have been told they really do not like or want to do this. An agent also had said to me they do not want to do it and leaving the country is the only way. Start everything new. My retirement is based on monthly income. Not cash in the bank. So all the money transferred here may be subject to the new tax laws at 35%. Which is something i am trying to reduce by changing my visa status. 

Please read the previous posts regarding Income tax on transfers. If you are transferring the minimum amount for a Marriage Visa, 40k per month I think, that is 480k per year. You will have NONE or very little tax to pay. It is not ALL at 35%. There is a substantial tax free allowance for both you and your wife, and then 150k at 0%. After that 150-300k is at 5%.

For the past two years I have transferred 40k per month as part of my Combination Retirement requirement, and my local taxman has charged me NOTHING.

Edited July 14 by KannikaP

[billd766]

18 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

They don't follow the rules.  They did for a little while, when first making the last set of changes - then stopped, and demanded "money in the bank" for the 90-day Non-O.

 

But, I thought if one came in with a Non-O Visa from a consulate abroad, and had a full-year of monthly-transfers to show, they could do the extension.  Maybe not, per:
 

... they do seem to hate Marriage-based extensions using xfers.

It all depends on the Immigration office.

 

I can only give first hand knowledge of the Kamphaeng Phet office which I have used for as many years as they have been open. I originally had a retirement and changed it a few years ago to a marriage based extension based in income.

 

The KPP office had no problem in changing the extension over, but there is a lot more paperwork involved.

 

As for the OP present dilemma, depending on how close to the Immigration office he lives, would be to travel to the office with his wife, talk to the IO, and get the information straight from the horses mouth. along with any paperwork they need to actually do the transfer.

 

It will not be a 100% guarantee, but at least the information will be first hand and he will be talking to the actual people who will be doing the work involved.

[connda]

On 7/13/2024 at 6:29 AM, thesetat2013 said:

Can anyone tell me what is the easiest and cheapest way to change my retirement visa to the marriage visa? 

The next time you go to immigration to apply for an extension,, take the paperwork for an Extension Based on Marriage and make sure you have the funds in the bank or a year's worth of bank records showing the necessary financial.
Be prepared for the IO to try to talk you out of changing the basis of your extension, but if you're married and supporting a family you qualify.

This may be a little dated and different Immigration Offices may have different rules. 

[connda]

16 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Agree.

However if the non O is applied for on eg retirement then the very first extension would be based on that reason.

Subsequent extensions you can change based on eg retirement to marriage. 

Not necessarily.  I came here on a Non-B and then changed it to a Non-O based on marriage after I quit working.  Did I right at the Immigration office.

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, connda said:

The next time you go to immigration to apply for an extension,, take the paperwork for an Extension Based on Marriage and make sure you have the funds in the bank or a year's worth of bank records showing the necessary financial.
Be prepared for the IO to try to talk you out of changing the basis of your extension, but if you're married and supporting a family you qualify.

This may be a little dated and different Immigration Offices may have different rules. 

 

I know things vary from office to office, but I had my application rejected last time because my bank book did not show money being deposited and withdrawn on the day of my application.....just thought that might be worth throwing into the mix.

 

Also I had to do all my forms again as they would only accept blue ink???

[DrJack54]

36 minutes ago, connda said:

Not necessarily.  I came here on a Non-B and then changed it to a Non-O based on marriage after I quit working.  Did I right at the Immigration office.

That is different.

My post was pointing out that if a non O is obtained based on eg retirement then for the First extension immigration may/will insist on the extension to be based on retirement.

Subsequent extensions can be based on marriage. 

[MixPiano]

On 7/13/2024 at 6:44 AM, thesetat2013 said:

 As I have been told they really do not like or want to do this. 

 

I can confirm they really don't like to do it. I spoke to 5 immigration officers in 2 different locations, and they all said it wasn't possible and that I need to leave the country (change extension reason from work to retirement).

 

But I decided to give it a shot anyway, nothing to lose. And it worked! I printed out the criteria for consideration and showed it to the immigration officer (CW). She asked for all the documents required for a new non-O, not just the extension ones. In the end, it worked, and I got my one-year stamp.

[DrJack54]

11 minutes ago, MixPiano said:

But I decided to give it a shot anyway, nothing to lose. And it worked!

The OP is asking about change from based on retirement to based on marriage.

This thread below covers your situation and yes it's possible.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1304886-non-b-to-non-o-retirement/

[mrmicbkktxl]

17 hours ago, billd766 said:

It all depends on the Immigration office.

 

I can only give first hand knowledge of the Kamphaeng Phet office which I have used for as many years as they have been open. I originally had a retirement and changed it a few years ago to a marriage based extension based in income.

 

The KPP office had no problem in changing the extension over, but there is a lot more paperwork involved.

 

As for the OP present dilemma, depending on how close to the Immigration office he lives, would be to travel to the office with his wife, talk to the IO, and get the information straight from the horses mouth. along with any paperwork they need to actually do the transfer.

 

It will not be a 100% guarantee, but at least the information will be first hand and he will be talking to the actual people who will be doing the work involved.

A few years ago I was  on retirement extention(less documents and issued right away) with certificate from my embassy,certificate was always enough for them.Then  the rumors came up I might need a health insurance so I changed from retirement extension to marriage extension(they complained).A lot of documents but all was ok, certificate from embassy sufficent.2022 certificate wasn't enough anymore,they also asked for Thai bank account showing monthly transfer from oversea minimum 40000THB per month.2023 I wanted to change back to retirement extension but they didn't let me because certificate from embassy showed 2200Euro something like 85000THB but my monthly money transfers to Thai bank only 42000 THB average.They said I need to transfer 65000THB.I thought ok I can do that but then rumors came about taxation.If I transfer 65000THB I will have to pay 5% more tax,so I stayed on marriage extension and use sometimes  an ATM card if I need more money

By the way when I told them I won't show a certificate (40Euro) in the future because they can see money transfers from Germany they insisted I still need to show every year a certificate.

[sandyf]

On 7/13/2024 at 7:15 AM, thesetat2013 said:

The rules say when applying you need to show 2 months of deposit transfers only. So why would that be refused in this manner? 

That is not quite right. The reduced number of deposits only applies in the case of a very first extension, not the first extension from a new visa.

Been there and had the rejection on that point.