DTV issued

[Phulublub]

May be of use:

 

[Maestro]

4 hours ago, Phulublub said:

May be of use:

 

 

You didn't give a link to the place where you download your image from.

 

The MFA website has it here, with the note "Revised 16 July 2024:

https://image.mfa.go.th/mfa/0/mkKfL2iULZ/New_Visa/S__34283804_0.jpg

[FridgeMagnet1]

Dtv just approved with start date of today.

Do I have to use it within 3 months or is it valid from today and can be used on a few months time?

[Lorry]

4 hours ago, FridgeMagnet1 said:

Dtv just approved with start date of today.

Do I have to use it within 3 months or is it valid from today and can be used on a few months time?

I think it's valid for 5 years. 

Never heard of a "use  by" date, like an activation date.

I could be wrong.

[FridgeMagnet1]

3 hours ago, Lorry said:

I think it's valid for 5 years. 

Never heard of a "use  by" date, like an activation date.

I could be wrong.

Yep, there isn’t any use by date on it anywhere

 

cheers 

[Maestro]

6 hours ago, Lorry said:

I think it's valid for 5 years. 

Never heard of a "use  by" date, like an activation date.

I could be wrong.

 

The eVisa shows the "valid from" date and the "valid until" date.

 

It is valid for travel to Thailand from the "valid from" date until the "valid until" date.

 

https://assets.aseannow.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2024_07/Screenshot2024-07-17175405.png.22f92dab38be4886af46a1e689af042e.png

 

[LivinLOS]

On 7/21/2024 at 7:41 AM, Maestro said:

@LivinLOS @Bobajob  Just for the archives, can you post a copy of the arrival stamp?

 This isn't mine but posted on FB for the archives. 

 

 

[mania]

Very Good Explanation of the DTV

 

 

[shdmn]

1 hour ago, mania said:

Very Good Explanation of the DTV

 

 

So 1900b for a 180 day extension according to the deputy director for consular affairs.  He did say you need to show your documents proving digital nomad status again, but didn't mention anything about the other categories like cooking classes or boxing or hospital appointments or a bank statement.  Kind of sounds to me like you might need to prove all that stuff is still going on to extend, so probably better off to just leave and come back instead.

Edited July 27 by shdmn

[mania]

9 hours ago, shdmn said:

So 1900b for a 180 day extension according to the deputy director for consular affairs.  He did say you need to show your documents proving digital nomad status again, but didn't mention anything about the other categories like cooking classes or boxing or hospital appointments or a bank statement.  Kind of sounds to me like you might need to prove all that stuff is still going on to extend, so probably better off to just leave and come back instead.

 

I know right?

That is exactly what I thought too. Especially since the one year clock resets on each entry. I mean yes probably cheaper to pay the 1900 than leave & return but to completely miss the IM visit is worth something

 

The one thing they didn't mention that I was curious about is 90 day reports then? Likely not needed I guess? But would have been nice to hear it from the official

[Presnock]

On 7/22/2024 at 3:00 PM, LivinLOS said:

Actually theres some room for debate here.. In the minutes of the cabinet (IIRC I have read so many docs now) meeting theres the wording that 500k 'throughout the stay'.. but of course translation, interpretation etc. 

 

I can easily imagine 500k being needed to extend at 180 days being part of it. 

 

The way Thai immigration laws read (in the benefits package of the BOI LTR) it says that requirements/qualifications for issuance of ANY visa must remain valid throughout the entire time limit of the visa.  Just saying, though just like the LTR no one is going to be checking it as one could go out of the country at any time and just check in at any immigration office for stamping in. 

[Digitalbanana]

11 minutes ago, mania said:

Likely not needed I guess?

Why would anyone guess that? This guy is from the Ministry Of Foreign Affairs that issues the DTVs. The 90 day reports are a requirement by Immigration and should apply to any foreigner staying more than 90 days.

 

[Presnock]

On 7/22/2024 at 5:40 PM, Rob Browder said:

 

The "what the neighbor said" is the crux of the issue. If someone gets drunk and walks home - no problem with "public drunkenness" laws - but make an a** of yourself while drunk, and you might have a police-problem.  Same thing here.

 

If there is enforcement only when the person in question is making some sort of 2ndary problem, and blabbing about what they do, then the solution is not to be a problem to others, and hand them the rope to hang you as a bonus. 

 

Whether working online or not, it is important to remember one is a guest in other people's country, and behave accordingly.

 

Also factor in - the new tax rules turn this into a net-benefit to Thailand, so even less reason to bother people about it.

Yes, Thailand's financial picture is not pretty at this time for sure, the TRD and Immigration and others are being told to find tax moneies somehow, especially on foreigners as they are easy to control targets.  Therefore, at least during these first couple of months/first year of the new interpretation of the laws, the Thai workers will most likely be told to be STRICT in the following of the tax laws.  Best to be safe instead of an example of what could follow.  MY opinion only of course but I feel protected by the current interpretations being presented.

[Mike Teavee]

On 7/25/2024 at 11:37 AM, Lorry said:

I think it's valid for 5 years. 

Never heard of a "use  by" date, like an activation date.

I could be wrong.

Some Visas (e.g. Tourist / Non-IMM O) have an "Enter Before" date which means you need to enter on the Visa (or Use by) this date... 

 

From pics posted of the DTV eVisa, there is no such limitation so presumably you could make your 1st entry just before the 5 years was up.

 

[JimTripper]

Can you get them if already in Thailand or only from your home country?

[LivinLOS]

Waking up in the UK and just saw the YT vid and came here to check it was already posted.. 

The multiple 180 cleared up (was obvious to anyone who read the Royal gazette is makes it very clear in art 3 4 and 5 repeating multiple entries and even 'infinite times use' depending on translation. 

The extension fee of 1900 baht, tho he did semi defer that to immigration it seems totaly unlikley that its 10k now as it sint in the royal gazette either, it IS listed in the minutes of the cabinet meeting but that was at the concept stage. 

He should have taken 5 minutes to emphasize the working rights, which are clearly stated in the gazette nd differentiate it from others with that. 

Basically it is all wins. 

[wmlc]

1 hour ago, mania said:

 

I know right?

That is exactly what I thought too. Especially since the one year clock resets on each entry. I mean yes probably cheaper to pay the 1900 than leave & return but to completely miss the IM visit is worth something

 

The one thing they didn't mention that I was curious about is 90 day reports then? Likely not needed I guess? But would have been nice to hear it from the official

There is no one year reset of any clock of you never extend inside Thailand. You can simply leave at the end of each 180 day stay and then re enter to get another 180 days. You can do this for the entire 5 years without ever needing to extend the visa inside Thailand. The one year is only related to extensions meaning one extension only for every entry. 

[LivinLOS]

On 7/18/2024 at 8:17 AM, anrcaccount said:

 

Agree LivingLOS, it is quite simple. 

 

Unlimited entries in a 5 year period. Each entry, 180 days stay,( unless you reach the end of the 5 years e.g. enter 30 days before the end of the 5 years, stay permission stamp only valid 30 days until end of the visa)

 

Each stay can be extended at local immigration(if required), for an additional 180 days. After 360 days consecutively, you would have to leave and re enter. However if you left after say 150 days, on re entry you get 180 days.  

 

Cost of extension will be 1900 as per every other extension, but has been reported at 10000, I believe this will prove to be incorrect. BKK Immigration stated extensions at 1900. 

 

Tax is a separate discussion, which should be had on separate threads. 

 

Nailed it.. Back while it was still guesswork... Well done 😉

[LivinLOS]

23 minutes ago, wmlc said:

There is no one year reset of any clock of you never extend inside Thailand. You can simply leave at the end of each 180 day stay and then re enter to get another 180 days. You can do this for the entire 5 years without ever needing to extend the visa inside Thailand. The one year is only related to extensions meaning one extension only for every entry. 

This also has a knock on implication, which is tax related. 

If extensions are the point where revenue tries to link expats to inbound funds, possibly demanding a TTN, or even proof of returns etc.. Then by just border hopping and clock resetting of 180, you avoid all immigration interaction. 

 

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, mania said:

The one thing they didn't mention that I was curious about is 90 day reports then? Likely not needed I guess? But would have been nice to hear it from the official

 

90 day reports are needed, but if you dont extend who and when will they police them ?? 

Same with TM30s tho with the new rules on TM30s being 'once per visa' and not to be redone after a hotel stay you can do one TM30 at the first day of entry and have that be valid for 5 years you remain at one address. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 7/17/2024 at 11:31 PM, LivinLOS said:

DTV issued from the London embassy already.. No contract of employment, just uploaded a letter explaining I own a company and my last years tax return for evidence.

 

LOS.... just to clarify...

 

1. Was your application to the London embassy done via their E-visa route or in-person?

 

2. If it was done via the E-Visa route, could you have completed that process while physically being in Thailand, or was there anything that would have physically required you to be there in London?

 

Thanks! (I've never done an E-Visa app, so not clear on the particulars....)

 

[LivinLOS]

15 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

LOS.... just to clarify...

 

1. Was your application to the London embassy done via their E-visa route or in-person?

 

2. If it was done via the E-Visa route, could you have completed that process while physically being in Thailand, or was there anything that would have physically required you to be there in London?

 

Thanks! (I've never done an E-Visa app, so not clear on the particulars....)

 

1) evisa 

2) nothing that would stop it in the application process, however it is a known hot issue, and the passport would clearly show Thai entry stamps in it, during the time the evisa is issued.. Any IO for the duration of the passport and DTV can see that, shoudl any one of them notice you can be in a lot of hassle. I have even read text that as well as refusal of entry and invalidation of the visa you can be barred from applying for visa anywhere in the future !! 

You would be seriously unwise to attempt that !! Even back in the old days where dodgy visa companies used to get 1 year visas from around the world for you, they stamped the passport out, got the visa and stamped the passport back in for you so the dates matched. 

Edited July 28 by LivinLOS

[Caldera]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

This also has a knock on implication, which is tax related. 

If extensions are the point where revenue tries to link expats to inbound funds, possibly demanding a TTN, or even proof of returns etc.. Then by just border hopping and clock resetting of 180, you avoid all immigration interaction. 

 

While I take your post as saying that whether you extend or border hop potentially has an impact on tax enforcement, it's worth noting that it doesn't have an implication on your tax residency status.

 

In case of an audit (which could happen years later), you could be back-taxed and fined for those years you spent 180+ days in Thailand but they didn't know about you yet.

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, Caldera said:

 

While I take your post as saying that whether you extend or border hop potentially has an impact on tax enforcement, it's worth noting that it doesn't have an implication on your tax residency status.

 

In case of an audit (which could happen years later), you could be back-taxed and fined for those years you spent 180+ days in Thailand but they didn't know about you yet.

 

Of course.. 

 

But theres a 'where the rubber meets the road' consideration in this, and also in how Thailand tends to treat things. They cast a wide but leaky net in general. 

Everyone should have a plan, If you have a spouse make use of the tax free gifting that is possible, if you have taxed at source income elsewhere, only bring in that much yourself each year as it then has a DTA protection.. Layers on layers of cover. 

 

One of my income streams is a very minimal directorship salary I have to take, IIRC its about 15k eur and it HAS to be taxed at source.. I send that 15k for my pocket money.. My wife gets money sent is as a gift for her use (bills etc). Those 2 things can cover my cost of living fully. Until theres clarity I wont be buyign any more land or other inward investments. Thailands loss. 

[Lorry]

One more embassy with made-up requirements: Delhi.

KL wants a long-term rental (which the  target group normally won't have).

Delhi is not clear about what kind of accommodation.

People who posted "the Indians are coming!" may be happy. 

[Rob Browder]

1 hour ago, Lorry said:

One more embassy with made-up requirements: Delhi.

KL wants a long-term rental (which the  target group normally won't have).

Delhi is not clear about what kind of accommodation.

People who posted "the Indians are coming!" may be happy.

I am curious what a "sponsorship letter," in lieu of the 500K Baht, would be.  I get the general idea, but ... the sponsor shows a bank account with 500K in it?

[Tomtomtom69]

On 7/18/2024 at 12:18 PM, LivinLOS said:

Talking 2 totally different things. 

1) yes the BOI LTR categories can support a local work permit. 

2) the BOI also claim (exactly like the Elite people used to and the 'agent' does above) that working for a non Thai company or freelance online is 'OK'.. When evidence shows that is wrong. 

As I have posted in other threads after my first BOI video call when they told me that, I went to my local labour office, who told me in 100% clear terms that no, online work is work and while they were not actively looking for people it wasnt legal. I went back to the BOI who again assured me it was legal, I asked them were 'in law' this was written, at which point the BOI rep started back tracking and said 'well we have an understanding with the labour dept, you cant get in trouble' I explained I had just spoken to the labour dept and they said it was not legal and that you could, I also said that as a lawyer he must realise something is either in the state as law or isnt, anything else is only poor enforcement of law and are you saying it is legal or simply unenforced? he got uncomfortable and squirmy in the video call and said it wasnt in law but it was ok, you wont get in trouble.. A very Thai style response and no different than the elite folks said early on (people deported for online work on the elite now) and people like the above poster have said for any visa class. 

As I was applying for the LTR I didnt keep pushing him but it was obvious at that point. 

 

I don't think anyone has ever been deported for online work based outside of Thailand for a non-Thai company UNLESS there were other circumstances involved.

 

For example, an illegal boiler room, scam center, illegal online narcotic sales, illegal gambling operation  that sort of thing.

 

Or if you are a YouTuber and defamed Thailand but were also caught selling jewelry online, some of it within Thailand (which is clearly working here) that sort of thing.. 

 

Edited August 7 by Tomtomtom69

[Tomtomtom69]

On 7/22/2024 at 5:49 PM, LivinLOS said:

 

If you are saying it is a poorly enforced law.. Fully agreed. I have never stated otherwise.

It is the claim that it is not illegal, or that no one has ever been punished for it, that I am saying is factually wrong.

It IS illegal, as is evidenced by the people arrested and deportated, by the my mate nate saga and clarifications, by MANY statements fromt he labour dept and immigration, by the chinese vlogger etc. It is precisely due to it being illegal that people 'need to be descrete about it' etc. If it was legal why is there any need to hide it ? 

Yes, laws in Thailand are frequently pooly enforced, theres no prostitutes in pattaya and all nightlife closes at midnight.. That fact doesnt change the law. 

 

The Chinese vlogger defamed Thailand in one of her YouTube videos. She also sold jewelry online and hence that was the easiest way of getting rid of her. I don't know if she sold the jewelry to Chinese living in Thailand or only to those in China but this activity clearly goes beyond what a digital nomad is supposed to do as she was physically involved in carrying out tangible activities that would be considered work (such as mailing items to clients) and accepting payment for them.

 

VERY different to someone working from their bedroom or home office on a desktop or laptop, writing emails and holding Zoom meetings for a foreign company, not otherwise getting into trouble with Thai law and obviously NOT engaging in illegal activities such as operating an online gambling operation.

[Cameroni]

On 7/28/2024 at 9:01 PM, Rob Browder said:

I am curious what a "sponsorship letter," in lieu of the 500K Baht, would be.  I get the general idea, but ... the sponsor shows a bank account with 500K in it?

 

It is most likely for employees of a company where they get paid monthly salary and have a one year contract. If the company agrees to sponsor the employee and says he earns 4000 USD per month, and the contract is for one year, presumably that will be another way to satisfy the  "financial evidence" requirement.

Edited August 7 by Cameroni

[Presnock]

On 7/18/2024 at 3:03 PM, wmlc said:

Only for the highly skilled professional category. The OP falls under the work from Thailand professional category and can't get a digital work permit for that category. End of story. Go debate with someone else on the Thaigher forum. Under you twisted logic the wealthy pensioner category of the LTR visa category can also get a work permit.  Dead wrong! 

BOI specifically said I could get a work permit - they would assist - wealthy pensioner LTR holder.  funny how all the folks that don't even have a particular visa want all to think that they are the experts for that particular visa.  Have a good day.