Uk pension, what to do?

[cleopatra7]

This is not one of those wind up posts or troll efforts for responses, no moralizing please. I have seen a post on here from a guy showing letters he was sent stating he was claiming from home and what it cost him, so it’s been proven they can and do take action against ‘fraud’ sometimes.

 

My situation, claiming UK pension for 9 years while living in Thailand, passport full of exit entry stamps. Now its time to renew the passport, so I am wondering what my best option is.

 

1. Say nothing and carry on hoping the pages are not scrutinized and reported

 

2. Report I have just moved to Thailand before renewing PP, that might just bring attention to what’s in the PP though

 

3. ‘Lose’ old PP get a new one, that may mean as reported lost cannot transfer extension from old to new at Thai immigration, no big deal just get a new non O visa and start over.

 

Anybody in the same boat? I know you are not all good law abiding ex pats happy with a disgracefully low frozen state pension. In my case what would you do/did to best avoid paying back a chunk of money? I will be renewing PP in UK.

[Will B Good]

Same situation.....renewed old passport full of visas/extensions.....nothing.

 

I did even consider 'losing' my passport.....but that would have brought a world of other troubles.

[mokwit]

The advice on losing passports is DON'T, there is no end of trouble with a lost passport. A DAMAGED but readable passport is less hassle. There was a situation a long time ago where (apparently) an embassy was advising people who suddenly needed a new passport to leave their passport in their jeans pocket when washing them.

[JBChiangRai]

Everything is computerised now, if you have an upcoming trip to the UK, on your return to Thailand I would notify DWP you have moved to Thailand and give them the recent date. A true statement.

 

If you haven't been to the UK in a long time then, if you had moved here recently from the Philippines you would have your pension frozen from that recent date when you left the Philippines and they wouldn't have the flight details...

[Will B Good]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Everything is computerised now, if you have an upcoming trip to the UK, on your return to Thailand I would notify DWP you have moved to Thailand and give them the recent date. A true statement.

 

If you haven't been to the UK in a long time then, if you had moved here recently from the Philippines you would have your pension frozen from that recent date when you left the Philippines and they wouldn't have the flight details...

 

 

The UK HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) generally does not check passports or visas directly during routine processes such as tax return filings or renewals. However, there are situations where HMRC might investigate your residency status, which could involve reviewing travel records or other documents.

 

1. Residency and Tax Status:

HMRC is primarily concerned with determining your residency status for tax purposes. This involves assessing where you reside and spend most of your time. The Statutory Residence Test (SRT) is used to determine this. The SRT looks at various factors including the number of days spent in the UK, ties to the country, and more  .

2. Investigations:

In the case of an investigation into your residency status, HMRC might request various documents to verify your claims. This could potentially include travel records, which might be derived from passport stamps or travel history obtained from other government agencies  .

3. Visa and Immigration Status:

Generally, visa and immigration status are handled by the Home Office, not HMRC. However, there is cooperation between government agencies. If HMRC needs to verify your residency status for tax purposes, they may access information held by the Home Office regarding your visa status  .

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

The UK HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) generally does not check passports or visas directly during routine processes such as tax return filings or renewals. However, there are situations where HMRC might investigate your residency status, which could involve reviewing travel records or other documents.

 

1. Residency and Tax Status:

HMRC is primarily concerned with determining your residency status for tax purposes. This involves assessing where you reside and spend most of your time. The Statutory Residence Test (SRT) is used to determine this. The SRT looks at various factors including the number of days spent in the UK, ties to the country, and more  .

2. Investigations:

In the case of an investigation into your residency status, HMRC might request various documents to verify your claims. This could potentially include travel records, which might be derived from passport stamps or travel history obtained from other government agencies  .

3. Visa and Immigration Status:

Generally, visa and immigration status are handled by the Home Office, not HMRC. However, there is cooperation between government agencies. If HMRC needs to verify your residency status for tax purposes, they may access information held by the Home Office regarding your visa status  .

 

Thailand have taken an integrated approach with their citizens.

 

All the data is held centrally and those with the right clearance can see everything about their citizens, bank accounts & transactions, mobile phone calls & complete GPS data, cars, motorbikes, hotel stays, airline records. They know absolutely everything.

 

They can even do this to some extent with foreigners.  Prior to issuing my Elite Visa, the agent asked me why a bank account of mine withdrew 2M baht via ATM transactions in Australia over a fairly short period of time.  I never gave them my bank account details and it's not one I use day to day.

 

My advice to the OP would be to try and regularise his status as soon as he can and hope they don't ever go looking back at his residency status.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Thailand have taken an integrated approach with their citizens.

 

All the data is held centrally and those with the right clearance can see everything about their citizens, bank accounts & transactions, mobile phone calls & complete GPS data, cars, motorbikes, hotel stays, airline records. They know absolutely everything.

 

They can even do this to some extent with foreigners.  Prior to issuing my Elite Visa, the agent asked me why a bank account of mine withdrew 2M baht via ATM transactions in Australia over a fairly short period of time.  I never gave them my bank account details and it's not one I use day to day.

 

My advice to the OP would be to try and regularise his status as soon as he can and hope they don't ever go looking back at his residency status.

 

Yikes!!!

[CharlieKo]

I think you will find that HMRC and DWP cannot communicate directly with each other. So it is highly unlikely that DWP will enquire about your residency status via HMRC.

 

However If I understand you correctly, you use a UK address as residency for pension purposes. All I'll say is, you better hope DWP never find out. As they will claw back funds which in their eyes was over paid due to you living in a country where you pension is frozen. 

[CharlieH]

Over thinking ! You are your own worst enemy.

 

Renew your passport as normal.

[Moonlover]

If you renew your passport in the correct matter here in Thailand, your old passport will never be seen by either HMPO or the DWP. It's stays right here in Thailand.

 

So just renew your passport as normal. 

[AreYouGerman]

47 minutes ago, mokwit said:

The advice on losing passports is DON'T, there is no end of trouble with a lost passport. A DAMAGED but readable passport is less hassle. There was a situation a long time ago where (apparently) an embassy was advising people who suddenly needed a new passport to leave their passport in their jeans pocket when washing them.

 

How so? I replaced my German passport a lot of times and it was never a hassle.

[CharlieKo]

4 minutes ago, AreYouGerman said:

 

How so? I replaced my German passport a lot of times and it was never a hassle.

 

If you lose your UK passport too many times The passport office may refuse to issue you with a new one on the basis that you could be selling your passport on the black market for a few thousand pounds. 

[mokwit]

6 minutes ago, AreYouGerman said:

 

How so? I replaced my German passport a lot of times and it was never a hassle.

After reporting it lost and "many times"? Maybe Germany is different, but it is no end of checks and waiting with UK (apparently) - I also suspect if you claimed to have lost a passport many times they would refuse to issue a new one at some point on the assumption you were selling them.

[daveAustin]

31 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

If you renew your passport in the correct matter here in Thailand, your old passport will never be seen by either HMPO or the DWP. It's stays right here in Thailand.

 

So just renew your passport as normal. 

Your old passport stays with you, but you have to colour copy every page and it all goes back to Blighty.

[hotandsticky]

2 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

Your old passport stays with you, but you have to colour copy every page and it all goes back to Blighty.

 

 

Personally, I doubt that anything goes "back to Blighty".......I would imagine that the copied pages will at best be scanned to HMPO.

[AreYouGerman]

24 minutes ago, mokwit said:

After reporting it lost and "many times"? Maybe Germany is different, but it is no end of checks and waiting with UK (apparently) - I also suspect if you claimed to have lost a passport many times they would refuse to issue a new one at some point on the assumption you were selling them.

 

Well, I "lost" the regular passport 2x times and then just switched to the 1 year validity passport solving the "issue" for having so many stamps in there.

 

I once lost one of them for real on a Sunday and had a flight the next day and the embassy staff replaced it within a hour even though the Thai staff at the gate were rude to me, the German in charge came out, handshake, apologized for the Thais rudeness and gave me the passport.

 

The 'private area' for German citizens is also different to the one were all the Thais wait, not crowded and with aircon.

 

Seems Uk and Germany embassies are different, indeed.

[AreYouGerman]

34 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

 

If you lose your UK passport too many times The passport office may refuse to issue you with a new one on the basis that you could be selling your passport on the black market for a few thousand pounds. 

 

I have doubts that this works - the embassy would mark the "lost" passport as lost/stolen and it would be no good at any passport check.

[Will B Good]

Just now, AreYouGerman said:

 

Well, I "lost" the regular passport 2x times and then just switched to the 1 year validity passport solving the "issue" for having so many stamps in there.

 

I once lost one of them for real on a Sunday and had a flight the next day and the embassy staff replaced it within a hour even though the Thai staff at the gate were rude to me, the German in charge came out, handshake, apologized for the Thais rudeness and gave me the passport.

 

The 'private area' for German citizens is also different to the one were all the Thais wait, not crowded and with aircon.

 

Seems Uk and Germany embassies are different, indeed.

 

Lost my wife's Aufenthaltstitel on the way to the airport once and went straight to the embassy after it had officially closed.

 

Two German gentle came out onto the street to see if they could help.....they couldn't, but they were very kind and commiserated, which made us both feel better at least. 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, daveAustin said:

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

If you renew your passport in the correct matter here in Thailand, your old passport will never be seen by either HMPO or the DWP. It's stays right here in Thailand.

 

So just renew your passport as normal. 

 

1 hour ago, daveAustin said:

Your old passport stays with you, but you have to colour copy every page and it all goes back to Blighty.

That is true, but I'm pretty sure that HMPO do not act as DWP's 'wicket keeper'. 

 

On the other hand if if the DWP's suspicion's were aroused, it's possible that they could call upon HMPO to provide evidence, (data protection rules permitting) but they have plenty of other ways of scrutinizing ones travel movements and nowadays bank records as well.

 

It's becoming a riskier game all the time and as the O/P pointed people do get caught out.

Edited July 19 by Moonlover

[mokwit]

49 minutes ago, AreYouGerman said:

 

I have doubts that this works - the embassy would mark the "lost" passport as lost/stolen and it would be no good at any passport check.

Not if as part of the sale agreement you agreed not to report lost until a certain date or they alter it as is often the case (takes forgers skill).

Edited July 19 by mokwit

[cleopatra7]

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

If you renew your passport in the correct matter here in Thailand, your old passport will never be seen by either HMPO or the DWP. It's stays right here in Thailand.

 

So just renew your passport as normal. 

Why do they want all the old pp pages copied in colour if they are not interested in what's on them?

[cleopatra7]

3 hours ago, Will B Good said:

Same situation.....renewed old passport full of visas/extensions.....nothing.

 

I did even consider 'losing' my passport.....but that would have brought a world of other troubles.

 

Did you renew in UK or here?

[Will B Good]

21 minutes ago, cleopatra7 said:

 

Did you renew in UK or here?

Bangkok.....Trendy Building.....not too bad all considered. They were very helpful getting me through it.

[cleopatra7]

17 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Bangkok.....Trendy Building.....not too bad all considered. They were very helpful getting me through it.

Moved to Rama 9 now

[Will B Good]

Just now, cleopatra7 said:

Moved to Rama 9 now

Oh wow.

 

Good job you said.....I would never have checked...saved me some stress there....555

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, cleopatra7 said:

Why do they want all the old pp pages copied in colour if they are not interested in what's on them?

Mankind has been making and storing 'records' since Roman times and earlier. It doesn't mean that they utilize them. What interest would HMPO have in a person's travel records? In the vast majority of cases, unless there is a 'red flag' they will simply be stored.

 

Other agencies might have an interest, such as Border Force, the NCA or indeed DWP, in which case the information is there to be retrieved. A good example of that might be the recent case of Richard Barrows, found hiding in Thailand after almost 30 years on the run.

 

Edited July 19 by Moonlover

[Raindancer]

7 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Mankind has been making and storing 'records' since Roman times and earlier. It doesn't mean that they utilize them. What interest would HMPO have in a person's travel records? In the vast majority of cases, unless there is a 'red flag' they will simply be stored.

 

Other agencies might have an interest, such as Border Force, the NCA or indeed DWP, in which case the information is there to be retrieved. A good example of that might be the recent case of Richard Barrows, found hiding in Thailand after almost 30 years.

 

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

That is true, but I'm pretty sure that HMPO do not act as DWP's 'wicket keeper'. 

 

 

 

It's becoming a riskier game all the time and as the O/P pointed people do get caught out.

Post deleted by user.

Edited July 19 by Raindancer

[CharlieH]

3 hours ago, cleopatra7 said:

Why do they want all the old pp pages copied in colour if they are not interested in what's on them?

I renewed mine last November and don't remember providing copies.They looked at it and gave it back, when collecting the new one they just cut the corner off the old one before returning it. 

 

Only place Ive encountered copies like you suggest was Thai immigration visa ext renewal.

[Raindancer]

17 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

I renewed mine last November and don't remember providing copies.They looked at it and gave it back, when collecting the new one they just cut the corner off the old one before returning it. 

 

Only place Ive encountered copies like you suggest was Thai immigration visa ext renewal.

My application in January in CM required photocopies of every single page, ( including blank pages) of my old passport.

 

Here is a link that might help the OP, albeit it is based upon the BKK office.

 

https://www.ajarn.com/blogs/bangkok-phil/renewing-a-uk-passport-in-bangkok

 

And just to add, I downloaded my DTAC monthly bill as proof of address.  My Thai DL had my old address of some years ago.  DLT in Chiang Mai never changed the address after my DL renewal last year, and i didn't check it, before leaving.

 

NB:  9 days later I received the call to collect my new passport.  😁

Edited July 19 by Raindancer
Additional info

[Thailand]

7 hours ago, cleopatra7 said:

This is not one of those wind up posts or troll efforts for responses, no moralizing please. I have seen a post on here from a guy showing letters he was sent stating he was claiming from home and what it cost him, so it’s been proven they can and do take action against ‘fraud’ sometimes.

 

My situation, claiming UK pension for 9 years while living in Thailand, passport full of exit entry stamps. Now its time to renew the passport, so I am wondering what my best option is.

 

1. Say nothing and carry on hoping the pages are not scrutinized and reported

 

2. Report I have just moved to Thailand before renewing PP, that might just bring attention to what’s in the PP though

 

3. ‘Lose’ old PP get a new one, that may mean as reported lost cannot transfer extension from old to new at Thai immigration, no big deal just get a new non O visa and start over.

 

Anybody in the same boat? I know you are not all good law abiding ex pats happy with a disgracefully low frozen state pension. In my case what would you do/did to best avoid paying back a chunk of money? I will be renewing PP in UK.

Man up, tell DWP you have fraudulently been collecting a pension you are not entitled to and you will pay it back!

 

Then I woke up!