Using an overseas Debit Card to minimise paying tax for those of us staying over 180 days

[newbee2022]

29 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

There's a very simple solution for those who are married to a Thai woman. I believe that I had read that there was somewhere between 2 and 5 million baht per year that was allowed to be sent to your wife, and that money would be tax-exempt. 

Haha, that will not work. You all read only one part of that concerning article in the law.

Sure you can send your wife money.....as long YOU would not benefit. Buy her jewelry is ok, money is not.

Btw, there are many webinars already about the new law. Look for it and you'll be informed!

[WebGuy]

On 8/7/2024 at 11:51 AM, NoDisplayName said:

 

There are also deductions for premiums to Thai companies for health insurance and life insurance....for you and wife........total up to 100K.

My Thai wife and I have a company (she owns 51% and I own 49%). I am appointed as a director. 

 

I didn't know there are these premiums for tax deduction. 

 

Could you please provide some source?

[newbee2022]

33 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

There's a very simple solution for those who are married to a Thai woman. I believe that I had read that there was somewhere between 2 and 5 million baht per year that was allowed to be sent to your wife, and that money would be tax-exempt. 

Haha, that will not work. You all read only one part of that concerning article in the law.

Sure you can send your wife money.....as long YOU would not benefit. Buy her jewelry is ok, money is not.

Btw, there are many webinars already about the new law. Look for it and you'll be informed!

[newbee2022]

21 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

At the moment there is no new law, it is only in discussion.

Right. It's implemented many years ago

33 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

There's a very simple solution for those who are married to a Thai woman. I believe that I had read that there was somewhere between 2 and 5 million baht per year that was allowed to be sent to your wife, and that money would be tax-exempt. 

Haha, that will not work. You all read only one part of that concerning article in the law.

Sure you can send your wife money.....as long YOU would not benefit. Buy her jewelry is ok, money is not.

Btw, there are many webinars already about the new law. Look for it and you'll be informed!

[sometimewoodworker]

13 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I'd love to see the revenue department attempting to investigate whether or not a spouse benefited from funds that were sent using this exemption. 

Please do not change my words! I did not say that you cannot benefit from the gift sent to your spouse. I said you cannot receive money from your spouse without cancellation of the gift exemption 

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Please do not change my words! I did not say that you cannot benefit from the gift sent to your spouse. I said you cannot receive money from your spouse without cancellation of the gift exemption 

Well it's essentially the same thing, we're really nitpicking at this point. If a spouse receives 5 million baht, is it even possible that the revenue department is even going to consider the possibility that the husband would not benefit from it, much less be able to prove it? I don't think so. It would appear to be a deliberate loophole in the law. 

[newbee2022]

On 8/6/2024 at 7:11 PM, 4MyEgo said:

99.99

Totally wrong. You'll be taxed with your world income. Wherever it might be. So the idea of credit or debit cards is crap. Thailand will trace it back to origin. To your account in eg UK.

[newbee2022]

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Well it's essentially the same thing, we're really nitpicking at this point. If a spouse receives 5 million baht, is it even possible that the revenue department is even going to consider the possibility that the husband would not benefit from it, much less be able to prove it? I don't think so. It would appear to be a deliberate loophole in the law. 

Buy her jewelry for 5 million. Hardly nobody will see you with diamond ear rings, as long you're straight. So only her got a benefit. 

[Rob Browder]

On 8/7/2024 at 12:52 AM, CharlieKo said:

 

only if you receive no benefit from that gift. If your wife passes any of those funds back to you in any shape or form. It is no longer a gift free of tax.

No chance of that happening, regardless.  🙂

 

On 8/7/2024 at 11:18 AM, Ralf001 said:

where does this Bt.60,000 number come from

A wife with no income of her own = you support her.  If she has income, it will be added to the filing-jointly income.   I stand to be corrected, but that is how I read it.

[Rob Browder]

On 8/6/2024 at 10:42 PM, puck2 said:

I did not yet read any comment about DTA = Double Tax Agreement.

 

The Thai- German DTA (in German, English and Thai language) contains the following Article 18 (2):

(Thailand has to respect it !!! )  😉

 

Similar with the USA's dual-tax agreement (DTA) - I will pay no taxes on Social Security income, remitted to Thailand.  Deposited directly will make an easy paper-trail.

 

All with pension income, who are worried about paying Thai taxes, should look up their DTA.  They may be able to rest-easy, after that.

 

The tricky part will be for new arrivals and the initial "set up money" they bring in - to buy a condo, car, etc.  If I were in that situation, I would get a DTV, then have 5 years to bring it in - minimizing tax due each year on any amount remitted above their pension income. 

[sometimewoodworker]

21 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Well it's essentially the same thing, we're really nitpicking at this point. If a spouse receives 5 million baht, is it even possible that the revenue department is even going to consider the possibility that the husband would not benefit from it, much less be able to prove it? I don't think so. It would appear to be a deliberate loophole in the law. 

It absolutely is not essentially the same thing. It absolutely vital that you exactly follow the precise terms and wording that will avoid a tax liability.

 

As I said there is nothing to stop your spouse from taking care of all household expenses, and there is nothing in the rules to stop you from being a kept man, you can not however receive money from her/him.

 

Does it look like a loophole in the law? Of course it does. However it is a currently available one.

[Rob Browder]

On 8/7/2024 at 4:54 PM, chiang mai said:

Taxable or traceable are two different subjects, 

 

- is it taxable? - I think so

- is active detection and traceability in place and or likely? - I think not

It would suck if in, say, 3 years from now, they put AI to work on all the OECD mandated data of atm-money per foreigner, then hit them with a back-tax bill.  Much better not to bet on them "not finding out," IMO. 

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

The new laws are, as you say, proposed, not yet enacted.  

Nope, there is no new law. only a reinterpretation of an existing rule and it is active now, there is no need for any further enactment, it has been in force since 1 January this year.

[tlcwaterfall]

46 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Haha, that will not work. You all read only one part of that concerning article in the law.

Sure you can send your wife money.....as long YOU would not benefit. Buy her jewelry is ok, money is not.

Btw, there are many webinars already about the new law. Look for it and you'll be informed!

Money is definitely legal to give to a spouse as a gift. I'm surprised you would say it is not. 

 

https://www.expattaxthailand.com/gift-tax-2024/

[chiang mai]

47 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Totally wrong. You'll be taxed with your world income. Wherever it might be. So the idea of credit or debit cards is crap. Thailand will trace it back to origin. To your account in eg UK.

Worldwide income, or any derivative thereof, is only in the discussion stages. It will take time for that to be agreed and even longer to be implemented since it requires an act of parliament. expect a few years, if at all.

[LukKrueng]

On 8/6/2024 at 5:41 PM, 4MyEgo said:

 

I am thinking if I use my WISE Debit Card to shop, I may attract a fee of 5% at some shops here in the LOS even thought there is no fee charged to the seller,

Of course there is a fee charged to the seller. The fee is a % of the amount paid. The actual % changes according to type of business, annual volume and relations of the owner with the bank.

My business is charged 3-4% depending on the card. Many years ago the bank offered us to accept what they call phone orders (ie charge cc over the phone) but wanted 10% fee. I managed to negotiate it down to 6% which is still too high so I declined that service. They also offered me to accept debit cards but limited to card issued by my bank only and for a higher fee than credit card...

[spidermike007]

55 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Buy her jewelry for 5 million. Hardly nobody will see you with diamond ear rings, as long you're straight. So only her got a benefit. 

I seriously doubt the revenue department has the resources to monitor every  spouse, of every foreigner's bank account in the country, 24/7. That would be an enormous leap in sophistication from where the country presently is. Of course transferring money from her account to my account within a short period of time of receipt of the funds from overseas would look suspicious, but there are far more creative ways to transfer assets. 

Edited August 9 by spidermike007

[newbee2022]

5 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Worldwide income, or any derivative thereof, is only in the discussion stages. It will take time for that to be agreed and even longer to be implemented since it requires an act of parliament. expect a few years, if at all.

According to experts from the government it's as I said. Look for special webinars about it. They all got govt experts as guestsm I doubt they're lying.

[newbee2022]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I seriously doubt the revenue department has the resources to monitor every  spouse, of every foreigner's bank account in the country, 24/7. That would be an enormous leap in sophistication from where the country presently is. 

Don't underestimate them. Maybe they can't check everybody in the beginning but maybe you?

[chiang mai]

31 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

According to experts from the government it's as I said. Look for special webinars about it. They all got govt experts as guestsm I doubt they're lying.

The reinterpretation of the remittance rules, Por 161 was confirmed in September last year, Por 162 was introduced in November to mitigate that change. Since then, there has only been a single statement from the Head of the TRD expressing an interest in pursuing worldwide income for tax, that's it. Those webinars you refer to are discussing the reinterpreted rule, NOT worldwide tax on income, if you were to watch/listen to one of them you'd understand that.

Edited August 9 by chiang mai

[newbee2022]

15 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

The reinterpretation of the remittance rules, Por 161 was confirmed in September last year, Por 162 was introduced in November to mitigate that change. Since then, there has only been a single statement from the Head of the TRD expressing an interest in pursuing worldwide income for tax, that's it.

I give only information which can be verified in many webinars so far, always with govt members. But what you want to believe it's up to you.

[chiang mai]

Just now, newbee2022 said:

I give only information which can be verified in many webinars so far, always with govt members. But what you want to believe it's up to you.

If you listen to or watch one of them, you'll realise they are not what you think they are and are not about tax on worldwide income..

[Letseng]

On 8/6/2024 at 10:42 PM, puck2 said:

I did not yet read any comment about DTA = Double Tax Agreement.

 

The Thai- German DTA (in German, English and Thai language) contains the following Article 18 (2):

(Thailand has to respect it !!! )  😉

 

But it is taxed in Germany?

 

[newbee2022]

30 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

If you listen to or watch one of them, you'll realise they are not what you think they are and are not about tax on worldwide income..

I watched one for Switzerland, one for UK and one for US. I think there had been competent people. Lawyers, tax advisers, govt. People.  And it was indeed about world wide income. But you can believe what you want .

[chiang mai]

Just now, newbee2022 said:

I watched one for Switzerland, one for UK and one for US. I think there had been competent people. Lawyers, tax advisers, govt. People.  And it was indeed about world wide income. But you can believe what you want .

Well, regardless of what you watched, let's be perfectly clear that Thailand TRD is not implementing worldwide taxation, neither has it been agreed that they will do so, nor is there any law that permits them to do so. What has been implemented is a rule change to existing TRD Tax Code governing remittances, that is all.

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, WebGuy said:

My Thai wife and I have a company (she owns 51% and I own 49%). I am appointed as a director. 

 

I didn't know there are these premiums for tax deduction. 

 

Could you please provide some source?

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/deductions

https://www.muangthai.co.th/en/article/tax/tax-deduction-2566

 

[newbee2022]

17 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Well, regardless of what you watched, let's be perfectly clear that Thailand TRD is not implementing worldwide taxation, neither has it been agreed that they will do so, nor is there any law that permits them to do so. What has been implemented is a rule change to existing TRD Tax Code governing remittances, that is all.

Wrong, but as I said....believe what you want. Belief is "not knowing". End off!

[chiang mai]

Just now, newbee2022 said:

Wrong, but as I said....believe what you want. Belief is "not knowing". End off!

The current system of taxation is based on remittance, ie, when the income is remitted to Thailand it becomes taxable. Worldwide taxation is something very different, it taxes income as it arises, even if it is not remitted.

 

I have tried to explain this to you several times but you persist in ignoring the truth. You are spreading false rumours which is against forum rules. Either post a link that confirms Thailand is now operating a system of worldwide taxation or retract your statement.

[newbee2022]

15 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

The current system of taxation is based on remittance, ie, when the income is remitted to Thailand it becomes taxable. Worldwide taxation is something very different, it taxes income as it arises, even if it is not remitted.

 

I have tried to explain this to you several times but you persist in ignoring the truth. You are spreading false rumours which is against forum rules. Either post a link that confirms Thailand is now operating a system of worldwide taxation or retract your statement.

Wrong, but as I said....believe what you want. Belief is "not knowing". End off!

[Bday Prang]

            I had a dream the other week, I dreamt I had returned to Thailand from the UK and accidently brought somebody else's debit card  rather than my own, luckily it belonged to a trusted friend and was for a UK account that he rarely used.

           The simplest way we could think of to get me instant  access to much needed  cash was for him to tell me the PIN code and for me to use the card for ATM with drawls in Thailand as if it was my own,  whilst funding the account appropriately  from my own UK account via internet banking.    All was going well until an ATM at a 7/11 swallowed my card , at which point I woke up!